Miss-understood *cutters*

And that, my friends, is how you divert a conversation completely. Hope you enjoyed the ride.

Doesn't seem like a typical thing for you to do, Bret. Given that you like to confront a contrversial subject head on.

-Laura.

sorry brett if u thot i was talkin to u.... i was talking to violaxcor cuzz he was saying stuff ....sry about that.........

No worries, Heart.

Laura. sometimes it's just as good to break it up for a bit. A little fresh air and lowered blood pressure makes for a more rational discussion.

True, the age does get to me sometimes.. :)

-Laura.

So, you guys got into your little arguement so much, and got offended by such little things that you've gotten yourselves completely off topic. And are now talking about wether or not they're girls, and talking about age.

OMG. What a loooooong thread. I quit cutting along time ago. Recently started again. No one in the last 18 years ever thought I was a cutter. Even the psych wards didn't. I don't feel pain the way other people do. I know it is there but I don't feel it. I sawed on my arm, just below the shoulder joint. No visibility. For a half an hour. I only got a paper cut. My blades are always sharp enough to shave with. I usually do in fact. I cut to feel the pain that I otherwise cannot. My pain of what I have gone through and what I must still go through.
I speak for none save myself. Even God said you must die to be reborn. Who knows, maybe Jesus was a Masochist as well.

Shattered heart- i know wat you mean...for 1....all meh freinds at skool i can't trust....and its hard to keep in contact with the ones i do...an yes the knife is always there...like the smokes or even the advil are too....

I agree with kayla...
WoW julianna you rock!!!...
So do you dragon fly....

yea i no

Krissie, what is your daily water intake?

90% percent of all headaches are due to dehydration. And stop taking headache tablets now. I bet you have to take them just to function sometimes, right?

Good stuff.

Stay off the pain killers for as long as you can. A few reasons:

1: kidney / liver problems will develop real quick taking them in those quantities.

2: taking them to function is borderline to complete addiction.

3: long term damage from pain killers can be horrendous.

Keep the water intake up (8 glasses a day ideally). it's really good for your health, especially your renal system and skin.

yea i agree and same here... but i had to go to the doc and i had to get anti-depressents or w/e but i havent been takin em and i duno y.. i have been drinking alot of water too but i still get head aches and everything.. it mite be cuzz i haven't been eating .. can that giveu head aches?

Well, no wonder I get headaches so much.

Is ibeprofin really bad for your livers ect. too?

I am not a cutter, but someone very close to me was. I remember the first time he showed me his scars. I was having the worst day feeling so low I wanted to die, then he said I need to show you something. And he showed me these scars and at first I didn't understand..then it hit me like a baseball bat to the head..he's a cutter. This is how he handles his problems.

At first the whole thing really scared me..anyone who would harm themselves..geez they have to have something wrong with him, it's not normal, what can I do to help him stop from hurting himself? The thing is you can't stop someone from doing anything to themselves. It's up to them. As for what is normal or not normal..it's all up to a person's own perspective.

For him cutting was a normal way to calm him down when things got to crazy or hurt him so much. For me...normal is bawling & bitching till it stops hurting so much. Or writing. Other ways of getting over the pain. I once thought there was something wrong with people who cut. But it doesn't make them freaks. It's just how they deal with things. It's not how I personally deal with hardships, but that's my own preference.

I have found tons of cutters on this site. Many of them teenagers. Though I am not close to the guy I speak of anymore, I have a better understanding of why people do this. Yet, since I am not a person who Self injures myself, I will never COMPLETELY get the reasons behind it. Cutters are people just like you and me and to stereotype anyone as a freak because of whatever isn't fair. Unless you've walked a mile in their shoes you won't get why anyone does anything. Yeah some of us handle things differently, but that doesn't mean someone is a freak. We all do freaky things that aren't seen as the society norm. I know you all do so don't deny it!! :P

I agree with most of what you said Bob.

However, you've come through the stuff you've been through - you're on the other side, so to speak, and can look back clearly, and have found the strength to stop anyone making you hurt yourself etc etc.

Some people on here are still going through the crappy bit, and havn't come through that phase yet, enough to see clearly the situation. So they might find it hard to listen to what you're saying, because they're still in the suffering bit, and find it near impossible to look out beyond their pain/situation that they're feeling at present. If you get me?

True.

I think im somewhere in the middle, so can see a bit of both sides at the mo! Anyway its really good they can hear someone who has been through it and come out the other side :-)

See, a little diversion and everyone's cool again.

I would say I'm a genius, but hey... that would be egotistical.

Having said that, it would be the truth.

I am a genius.

:D

Shattered heart- i know wat you mean...for 1....all meh freinds at skool i can't trust....and its hard to keep in contact with the ones i do...an yes the knife is always there...like the smokes or even the advil are too....

I agree with kayla...
WoW julianna you rock!!!...
So do you dragon fly....

hey violaxcore...just like lots of cultures believe in cutting....an that it is normal....you obviously don't believe its normal...thats up too you...please stop your fucked up rampage to try to tell us we're wrong...you have an opinion...so do we...

julianna- your not alone....i even had a chance yesterday....to leave....but i didn't want to ditch meh mom...

Brett- i'ver reaserched suicide....and well if everyone here wanted to help....then support us tell us things will get better....don't argue...or lecture....it does no good!!!.....

kayla you rock gurl!!!!i'm with you 100%!!!
i agree...thats how me an meh dad are...i just hope i can get away...i would take meh problems out on paper too...but i did that already...an meh mom found it all...an now i don't write too much ne more....

Toni-they do that because the people trying to help are lecturing and argueing....and believe me it doesnst help!!!

Julianna- i think i might try group....doc's...meh skool.....an parentals...want me to see a therapist...

OMG i had the worst day ever!!! well yesterday...but well...i only told the two...at skool...freinds of mine i thought they were...but first i was havin a bad day....then things got worse cuz at 15 min break i got bitched at by one of the two i told from meh skool...then at lunch i was taken to the skool councilor...i was ?'d....then...the skool...didn think they had no other choice but to take me to the mental health centre in moronville....i had to tlk to a therapist...she couldn't help an found me at risk...so they took me to childrens services!!!! cuz they didn't think i was safe at meh home!!!....an then meh mom picked me up an took me to the royal alexandra hospital....to emergency...an i was examined an ?'d for the fourth time that day....i told only half truths so i could go home that night...i had wait 4 hours to get to tlk to the last person...it ruined my day...i didn even get a chance to tlk to meh coz or meh best freind jay...i still haven't....could some1 give me some advice on wat to do...they want me to go to a therapist...i don want to go...not really....things are really bad in meh fam.....an i jus can't take it...but i don wanna leave meh mom...or lose any contact with meh coz...or most meh freinds....but well....i sorta do in the same way...meh coz has offered for me to live with her...but i feel like i'd be too much of a burden for my aunt and uncle....i don't know wat to do...an meh best freind jay...has been tellin me that foster care might not be so bad....that i could start over....that i'd be free...but i already know i wouldn't be able to get out very easy...an i know when im 16 i would want to but...they won't want to let me go....could some1 help me give me some ideas...opinions....what would you do???
*kathleen*

Brett- i'ver reaserched suicide....and well if everyone here wanted to help....then support us tell us things will get better....don't argue...or lecture....it does no good!!!.....

Re-read the suicide rant topic again... very carefully. you'll see I'm on your side. Also you'll note I purposely stopped the argument, even though I support Bob's words 100%

On a side note, the second word in this thread is EVERYONE. this entitles everyone to have their say in the manner that they want to say it. Having said that **Cutters Only** will not stop me passing comment especially if I see the post is just a cutting instructional leaflet.

You don't agree with our hard line look on life through experienced eyes, we don't agree with your inexperienced eyes that look on the world with total bias. We know what we are talking about, put a little faith in that.

Best to you and yours.

Bert

Agreed. As previously stated and argued, if cutters were cutting naturally or culturally their scars would be a visible decoration. I am yet to hear of a cutter who has carved intricate patterns on their face.

I think it's a cry for help only if they're doing it because they actually are depressed and think that cutting is the only way for anyone to take notice of them.

But if they don't really have any problems, and just cut because they feel they need to be the center of attention- then it's a stupidity problem.

Jj, I hate headaches. =(

Maybe we should eat and drink more. yay.
Then our heads would feel better!

Yeah, I've never used my scars or cuts for attention. Although, I admit, I have thought of showing them to someone for thier attention. But that was when I felt very neglected and unloved. But I didn't. Few of my friends know I even cut, and only about three have ever even seen a cut or scar that they knew was from cutting.

I hate lieing to them when they see a cut, but they don't need to know..

I was borderline anorexic for awhile, but I was forced to eat, and now I don't think of it as so bad. But I still don't eat near as much as I should.

But at least I'm not dizzy and completely out of it from malnutrition anymore.

Wow, this was a long thread. Well, here I am, at the tale end of it. Maybe someone will reply. Maybe it's dead. I don't know. I'm not here to judge or lecture or anything, just share my story.

I'm not a cutter. I did the self-harm thing when I was a kid, but not for attention. I got plenty of attention. I always felt like I got too much attention. Of course, most of it was negative attention. No matter what, someone found something wrong with me. And hearing enough from my dad, doctors, and teachers, I started to believe them. The actual self-harm lasted maybe a week, like I said, I was sheltered. When I saw everyone around go crazy when they saw me, they would do the same things. I just found the whole act completely counter-productive. And stopped. I keep my pain on the inside.

Sometimes I share with friends. Or writing...there are a lot of ways to express myself that are completely socially acceptable. I follow most of them. That's the one thing that got to me about Bob Shank's post. I mean, what's so wrong with cliques, or groups, or finding somewhere you belong?If someone's happy, who are you to say that they're not allowed to be?

ya i know what youre talking about julianna. my friend has a councilor and she said that she told the councilor sometimes she thinks about death (this was before she actually got depressed) and the councilor was worried about it and my friend said 'well doesnt everyone sometimes?' and the councilor just thought she was phsyco. it was messed up. thankfully not all councilors are like that. at least im pretty sure lol.

Wow, I just read that whole post again?
I fucked up on 5 weeks.

WEll maybe cutting, and scars, and hiding them, and hurting are just my fucking punishments for being weak.

I probably deserve this. So screw it.

ugh. well I made it almost 5 weeks this time. but I always fuck it up.

I don't want this.

Well put Julianna!!!! - I am also a cutter. I couldn't explain or pin-point any better than Julianna has. And please, if you don't know the experience first hand, you realy are not in the place to judge it at all.

I agree, Bob.

However, I doubt the majority of people glorify negativity, but more so understand it/feel it themselves.

Those who cut can understand others in the same situation. In any situation, those with experience or in the same circumstances would naturally have a greater understanding.

Nobody wants to be friends with those who Self-harm to support the negativity, they just appreciate the fact that they're not alone.

-Laura.

Again, hail Bob.

It's like I was saying on thr 'cutters only' threads, they don't help, anything but in actual fact.

Julianna Jj, your patterns and stars and so on... that sounds really odd, no offence. If cutting is about releasing emotion why make a canvas of yourself? Also just because you are cutting shapes it is still unnatural if you are wearing them pride. From what I have read you are not proud of cutting.

Perhaps you should use more of the 172 I.Q. points and admit that if nothing else.

Again, I am not being insulting, I am being honest and blunt.

By grouping with cutters it makes it even harder to break the cycle.

Most (NOT ALL) of the time cutters don't like who they are, but the main message in the group mentality I see is 'Don't change'. That cannot help the individual break the mould and escape the self perpetuating vicious circle of depression that leads to cutting in the first place.

I was heavily ( and I really mean heavily)chastised, viciously in some cases, by a great many cutters for suggesting that someone change their outlook and life style to break the cycle they are in. The group mentality was, and I quote, 'We are happy cutting.' This to me shows the mindset of the majority of cutters.

Changing how you look or what music you listen to is not changing your self just your perspective. If it makes you happier and able to cope with whatever life throws at you then is it such a bad thing?

It's like I was saying on thr 'cutters only' threads, they don't help, anything but in actual fact.

I'm sorry but I have to totally disagree, as always :)

I have found that those in the same circumstances actually know how to handle the situation than those who know little about it. Whilst they completely contradict themselves, they support others who are trying to stop and commend them for their efforts.

I know that people who have had little/no experience with Self-Harm can do the same, but the majority of them adopt quite dissmissive and/or sarcastic characteristics, expressing them trhough thoughtless comments. This doesn't help the person trying to quit. Infact, it makes them feel quite pitiful for what they had classed as quite an achievement.

-Laura.

Ok, taking that onboard, how do you prevent the threads turning into a post filled with cutting top tips, secretive suggestions and advice on how to cut when people are trying their best to help you stop?

Would a properly moderated online group session help things?

I'm not saying that changing simple things, such as your style of music, Is a bad thing.

Whilst your experience has supported your opinion in the first place, I don't think you should stereotype a group of people based on one experience. Now if you've had many, which I'm assuming you may have then I understand your opinion and accept it. However, if it is just the one, then I don't think you should generalise persons who Self-harm based around that.

I know that alot of people you speak to or hear of on this site are freely admitting they're cutters, which obviously makes people assume they're proud of it. I doubt that's the case though.

Yes, there are some specific circumstances where people are actually proud of it and I too, disagree with people who Harm themselves a way of boosting their pride.

Just to add, I think It's a good idea to break the cycle of depression, but I think It's a lot more difficult than some expect.

Now I've gone around in circles and I can't remember what I was saying so I'm going to end it here.

-Laura.

No, I don't think it would help in the long run.

As you have expressed previously, people should seek help in reality and not just assume that people on the internet have the answers.

It's up to the individual to read the threads that support it.

Basically, quitting Self-Harm is regaining self control again. I think those who are trying to quit andcan refrain from reading threads provoking Self-Harm, should be commended. Even better, read them and not be pressured into/craving to retreating to Self-Harm again.

Once somebody has the self-control to do that, It's not quite as hard to stop.

As with any addiction, small steps can be just as affective as quitting totally straight away.

Whilst a properly moderated discussion would help TEMPORARILY, It's the support of those who are in the same situation and finding it difficult to quit, that matters.

Yes, those finding it difficult could POSSIBLY return to their old ways, but, discussing how they're feeling can give people added confidence and self belief that they can overcome their addiction.

-Laura.

specious argument.

Much and many experiences.

I may have mis-represented the opinion I was receiving. It was more of a case of we're happy cutting, leave us be to be depressed. Which was admitting they liked being depressed. A strange thought. I know this doesn't reflect the self-harm community at all but just those opinions of those that responded in such a manner.

I have a question for those who self-harm.

If you had to label yourself into a category other than self-harm or cutter what would it be?

true, as I have often said nothing beats face to face conversation.

But for that to happen the person must first admit that what they do is detrimental and that they want (not need) help.

Perhaps one of the bonuses of online forums like this is that a small minority will come to terms with the fact that help is what they want.