"Gold, Glory and God"

It has often been said that the exploration and colonization of the Americas was done for "Gold, Glory and God."

All three were obviously motivating factors, but which do you think was the most vital motivation? How did the motivational factors differ among English, Spanish, French and other European nations?

And one final question, what truly motivates people to attempt such feats?

The history books seem to have focused on the pilgrims and a pilgrimage had been a journey associated with religious pursuits

I believe my forefathers were among a few Catholics leaving the Maryland colony before the whisky rebellion

George Washington, the president at the time, was one such large producer of whiskey. Large producers were assessed a tax ranging from 7 to 18 cents per gallon

I would rather believe my forefathers were not seeking glory by avoiding taxes

My ancestors settled in Nelson county Kentucky, and their tombstones in the Abbey of Our Lady of Gethsemani, Holy Cross and many other surrounding church cemeteries may attest to their love of God even though the area may be better known for distilleries
Glory be

Many had land grants for their service in the revolutionary war

"I am sure that if one looks carefully into American society of that period, it will be easy to find religious intolerance, the same as in England and Europe. The various witch hunts and trials are ample proof of that."

^^"God, Glory and Gold" is an expression giving the reasons why the early Spanish explorers went to the Americas. God - They tried turning Native Americans into Catholics.

Some thought that they should bring their holy values to the peoples of the Americas, and that God would compensate them for doing it.

To say it was "religous intolerance" is wrong since they where not specifically refusing to tolerate practices, persons or beliefs on religious grounds. They were merly seeking religious beliefs as a mean to fullfill the conquest overseas and bring their religion to their findings of the new lands.

They where'nt forcing it, they where just incouraging others to join in their reigious beliefs.

~~~~~~~~~~

"Everything in the "Old World" was related to Land, Gold, Money and Wealth."

^^Gold and Money are the same thing my dear, Gold is a form of Money which was indeed a form of wealth, so to say it was all realated to Gold, Money, and Wealth is a falsity since it is all the same, just in different forms.

The Protestant Reformation was cause for many people to seek out America instead of staying in Europe and potentially being persecuted for their religious beliefs. Many came for Gold, recognition, possible freedom both religiously and personally, but I think what really drove people was ambition. Ambition to be or create something greater. Isn't that always the goal, no matter what the time period, even today, to grow and evolve and be something bigger and greater than what or who we are? For some anyway. So I guess that would be glory right? lol

"Ambition to be or create something greater"

^^ That technically can be considered "Glory"

Ambition to be greater and create/find new lands, and all the glory that comes from that. At least that's how I look at it.

Glory can come from anything such as finding Gold, or bringing religion to the Americas, or even just finding the new lands. Glory can come from many different locations and sought out places.

Symbol and stereotype
Thanks to Filson's book, in Europe Boone became a symbol of the "natural man" who lives a virtuous, uncomplicated existence in the wilderness. This was most famously expressed in Lord Byron's epic poem Don Juan (1822), which devoted a number of stanzas to Boone, including this one:
"Of the great names which in our faces stare,
The General Boon, back-woodsman of Kentucky,
Was happiest amongst mortals any where;
For killing nothing but a bear or buck, he
Enjoyed the lonely vigorous, harmless days
Of his old age in wilds of deepest maze."

I believe that greed is a learned behavior

History has been more kind to the Pennsylvania Quaker who explored and settled Kentucky where my great great great great grand mother was the first school teacher

"Maybe it comes from those long dead days of being civilised when the "First to the kill got the most to eat"

Maybe man was not meant to eat gold, but old glory still waves over fort Knox where the gold Bullion backs the currency with "In God We Trust" printed on it

A randomly related thought is that when Mahatma Gandhi was asked what he thought of western civilization he responded "I think it would be a good idea"

Even though spiritual masters have had difficulty in seeing what religion has to do with God, it is interesting that C.S Lewis classed creatures in three categories; supernatural, natural, and unnatural

If we in the Americas apply the Midas touch principle to black gold or Texas Tea we indeed could discover a very inconvenient truth as Al Gore would put it
On second thought I believe greed is an innate behavior

I suppose that since the European invasion the accounted Native Americans has amounted to diddly squat comparatively
Fossilized feces found in Oregon contain human DNA. Scientists have dated the matter to 14,000 years ago -- 1,000 years older than human remains previously found in the Americas.

Judging from my own experience the European blood has been mixed in more ways than one and a new value system has immerged from this unwelcome invasion

One may make the case there were tribal conflicts before the trail of tears

It seems to me that the Indians focus on spirituality, may have hindered their weapons technology, therefore their warriors were not able to halt the invasion

It seems the rest of the world must note the military strength of the United States that formed from the spirit of 76

The world may ironically give the capitol sin of greed credit for the success of this one nation under God, which adopted the motto united we stand divided we fall, but time has proven it effective so far

Holy shit is there such a thing as holy war?

I think the largest motivating factor was greed. Greed for money and power. People came, stole the land and whatever they wanted of value. Surely there were a small few who traveled here to find some greater good, religion or for whatever reason but just like Bob said, it's all about the Benjamins....well it would have been all about the coins back then I guess...LOL

What motivates people? Refer to answer #! - Greed!, Money and Power!!

Ants form colonies that range in size from a few tens of predatory individuals living in small natural cavities to highly organised colonies which may occupy large territories and consist of millions of individuals that are mostly sterile females forming castes of "workers", "soldiers", or other specialised groups. Ant colonies also have some fertile males called "drones" and one or more fertile females called "queens". The colonies are sometimes described as superorganisms because ants appear to operate as a unified entity, collectively working together to support the colony.[4]
Ants have colonised almost every landmass on Earth. The only places lacking indigenous ants are remote or inhospitable islands. Ants dominate most ecosystems, and form 15-20% of the terrestrial animal biomass.[5] Their success has been attributed to their social organisation, ability to modify their habitats, tap resources and defend themselves. Their long co-evolution with other species has led to mimetic, commensal, parasitic and mutualistic relationships.[6]
Ant societies have division of labour, communication between individuals, and an ability to solve complex problems.[7] These parallels with human societies have long been an inspiration and subject of study. Many human cultures make use of ants in cuisine, medication, and rituals. Some species are valued in their role as biological pest control agents.[8] However, their ability to exploit resources brings ants into conflict with humans, as they can damage crops and invade buildings. Some species, such as the red imported fire ant, are regarded as invasive species, since they can establish themselves in new areas where they may be accidentally introduced."
It seems we are disgusted with our own nature, yet we exalt our nature as if how we should rise above is imposible

Glory is often beautiful, is not beauty in the eye of the beholder?

Rikki I am only interested in your mind, but it could be only because I do not know you well enough to be in lust with you

I should not take pride in my humility

To me science is merely an observation of natural phenomenon
And if the twin towers were a symbol of greed then the proverbial Tower of Babel was a symbol of pride

Lust
Chastity

Gluttony
Temperance

Greed
Charity

Sloth
Diligence

Wrath
Patience

Envy
Kindness

Pride
Humility

One of my favorite American folksong writer wrote this in the 60s

"There must be some way out of here," said the joker to the thief,
"There's too much confusion, I can't get no relief.
Businessmen, they drink my wine, plowmen dig my earth,
None of them along the line know what any of it is worth."

"No reason to get excited," the thief, he kindly spoke,
"There are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke.
But you and I, we've been through that, and this is not our fate,
So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late."

All along the watchtower, princes kept the view
While all the women came and went, barefoot servants, too.
Outside in the distance a wildcat did growl,
Two riders were approaching, the wind began to howl."

I have read some interesting interpretations of these lyrics

The war in Iraq and afganistan has to do with the abuse of religion. If religion were the opium of the people most people would shoot it in their own veins rather than at each others. Because of mankind's ability to glorify abuse, everything that can be abused is by those whom favor vices over virtues

You can put lipstick on a pig but it is still a pig

You can call a war holy but it does not make it holy

Ali was born in Louisville, Kentucky.

Our military may float like a butterfly and sting like a bee but many believe they were commanded to sting the wrong terrorist considering most of them were from Saudi Arabia

G. W. Bush is more of a WASP White Anglo-Saxon Protestant

Accept for JFK most of my heros of the 60's opposed the politics of war, cold or otherwise

Words and Music by Bob Dylan
1963 Warner Bros. Inc
Renewed 1991 Special Rider Music

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Home -Eternal Circle- Lyrics List Album List

Oh my name it is nothin'
My age it means less
The country I come from
Is called the Midwest
I's taught and brought up there
The laws to abide
And that land that I live in
Has God on its side.

Oh the history books tell it
They tell it so well
The cavalries charged
The Indians fell
The cavalries charged
The Indians died
Oh the country was young
With God on its side.

Oh the Spanish-American
War had its day
And the Civil War too
Was soon laid away
And the names of the heroes
I's made to memorize
With guns in their hands
And God on their side.

Oh the First World War, boys
It closed out its fate
The reason for fighting
I never got straight
But I learned to accept it
Accept it with pride
For you don't count the dead
When God's on your side.

When the Second World War
Came to an end
We forgave the Germans
And we were friends
Though they murdered six million
In the ovens they fried
The Germans now too
Have God on their side.

I've learned to hate Russians
All through my whole life
If another war starts
It's them we must fight
To hate them and fear them
To run and to hide
And accept it all bravely
With God on my side.

But now we got weapons
Of the chemical dust
If fire them we're forced to
Then fire them we must
One push of the button
And a shot the world wide
And you never ask questions
When God's on your side.

In a many dark hour
I've been thinkin' about this
That Jesus Christ
Was betrayed by a kiss
But I can't think for you
You'll have to decide
Whether Judas Iscariot
Had God on his side.

So now as I'm leavin'
I'm weary as Hell
The confusion I'm feelin'
Ain't no tongue can tell
The words fill my head
And fall to the floor
If God's on our side
He'll stop the next war.

It would be helpful to set the tone if anyone wanted to capture the tone of this topic from folk music YouTube.
Bob Dylan & Joan Baez sing "God On Our Side" Newport 1964

^As far as the West was concerned it had nothing to do with Religion.
The war in Iraq was a little different, America wanted some excuse, any excuse, to march in there and to eventually control the oil. That too had nothing to do with Religion^

Well, I wonder why many people refer to it as Jihad then.....

If we really wanted to take their oil, don't you think we would have when we helped Kuwait? And is that why Americans are paying $4-$5 per gallon for gas? Maybe Bush took some oil and is just raking in the profits.....

George Bush made up an excuse WMD to get Saddam as revenge for the assassanation attempt on his father.

I do agree, however that America sticks it's nose in where it doesn't belong and should be at home protecting it's citizens as opposed to being abroad. We have many problems here that we could be using our resources to rectify.

We do not all agree with the decisions of our President you know.....

Good God i've found gold, what glory....

Rikki, thank you.
It's so frustrating when Americans complain about their gas prices.

^That is one point why many nations dislike America, we are all subsidising your cheap gas.
In Aussie we have the priviledge of paying $8-$9 per gallon of petrol (gas) so that you can buy it for half the price.^

Oh so that is intelligent. You dislike Americans because of the cost we pay for gas which we have no control over. Okay....I dislike people who talk jibberish about things they know little to nothing about.

I don't know what your cost of living is otherwise compared to the US. You also have to take into consideration the exchange rates. I believe our dollar is worth more than yours.

Do we dislike other countries because they have universal health care and there are Americans here who work and can not afford health care? Do we dislike other countries because OUR jobs are being outsourced there? If you are upset about your gas prices, why don't you dislike the people who control them?

^Rikki, thank you.
It's so frustrating when Americans complain about their gas prices.^

You are not even old enough to drive a car or have to worry about running a household and paying for gas! Shouldn't you be frustrated about your homework?

Australia's largest amounts of imported crude oil comes from the UAE, Malaysia, Vietnam, and Papua New Guinea. How does America control that?

You have a higher gas tax than we do, does America decide your tax rate on gasoline?

^Rachel, then I guess you must dislike yourself quite a bit then."^

I love myself and that is all the breath I am going to waste on that comment. How old are you?

America isn't the only reason for higher oil prices, the war in Iraq may add to it, but so does China and India. China has almost more than tripled its oil consumption since the end of the 80's, India has atleast doubled theirs. Every year oil demand has increased across the world, especially in developing countries. Things going on with Iran, in Nigeria, Venezuela and Caspian Sea have also beeen the cause of rises. There is not as much spare oil production either, though soon the Saudi's are supposed to opening a new field. We have to come to terms with the fact that oil is not a renewable source of energy and the bigger the demand gets, the quicker sources are going to dwindle. Lets face it no one can really say for certain how much oil we are going to get out of the earth. I am sure that the speculators don't help either, none the less we all contribute to the problem.

I don't feel the need to share my age with anyone on this site.

Now, what you said sounds much better than your previous posts. Many Americans also dislike many things the government and big business do. We can raise our voices but I can assure you, we have no say. Our government is greedy, they don't genuinely care about the people as proven when hurricane Katrina hit. I just find it very hard to believe that we did not have the resources, man power or ability to get aid quickly to the victims. Then again, maybe most of our troops were sent abroad to fight a war we don't agree with....

So in Australia if you guys don't agree with the way your government is doing things, can you guys ban together and implement change?

Red Neck Hills

Let me tell you a little story about a man named Red
A poor ole red neck barely kept his family fed
Then one day he was looking for a home
He went to Fannie Mae and took out a loan
Well the first thing you know ole Red is a millionaire
His kin folk said Red move away from there
Borrow as much as you want, the I. R. S don't care
Merrill Lynch and Freddie Mac want to sell you a share
They said a double wide is where you want to be
So they hooked it to a pick up truck and moved to Beverly
Some folks say that my song is partly plagiarized
While the bail out of Fannie Mae is patronized
Take your shoes off and sit a spell
We won't let your taxes go to hell

It is no wonder why foreigners love this locality
So have a heaping helping of our hospitality

Love the spin off Michael. Is the title The American Hillbillies?

Rikki,

Very interesting and yes, very different from how things are here. How large is the fine for not voting?

Rikki again with all due respect there are a lot we's and not enough I's in your statements "Yes, we dislike America" who's the we here?? Most people I know have a lot off respect for America and whats been achieved over there, if anything there's always been a dash of jealousy

We pay approx 3 x the amount of tax on petrol that Americans do. 60/65 mpg! that vehicle never existed, the plans are hidden in area 52!

And as to America saving us in the last war if you're talking about the 2ww it was the Russian winter that beat the Germans!

Cheerz Nicko

I'm not saying the American contribution was insignificant but if you look at the big picture what happened in the pacific was side action to the main event in Europe, where there were over 10 million deaths, in the pacific the Americans lost approx 60,000 the Japanese twice that.

So before you go firing your Australian gun at me I suggest you go back to your ANZAC history books where the NZ means New Zealand.

Yes it all becomes clear now, Yes You Did Have TOO many drinks that explains the complete poppy cock you have been writing in all your posts Giggggggles....

By the way, open your history books just that wee bit wider and you'll find that Yanks were based in NZ during the war as well....

You've been drinking again haven't you....yes they did feel welcomed there, all free men do.....

Thomas Merton (31 January 1915 � 10 December 1968) was one of the most influential Catholic writers of the 20th century. A Trappist monk of the Abbey of Our Lady of Gethsemani, in the U.S. state of Kentucky, Merton was a prolific poet, a social activist, a student of comparative religion as well as the author of numerous acclaimed works on spirituality. He wrote more than 60 books, scores of essays and reviews, and is the subject of several biographies. Merton was a keen proponent of inter-religious understanding, engaging in spiritual dialogues with the Dalai Lama, Thich Nhat Hanh and D. T. Suzuki. His life and career were suddenly cut short at the age of 53, when he was electrocuted stepping out of his bath. Early life
Thomas Merton was born on January 31, 1915 in Prades, France, to Owen Merton, a New Zealand painter active in Europe and the U.S.A., and Ruth Jenkins, an American Quaker and artist. Merton was baptized in the Church of England, following his father's wishes. Owen, a struggling painter, was often absent during Thomas's upbringing.
I will admit that my interest in Merton is mainly because of his ties with my culture
But I know many Americans including close relatives that he mentioned in his writings
He did not seem to rise to the level of greed you speak of

^Australian troops rioted and and went on a rampage, beating virtually every american they found.^

Sounds like something that would happen in Iraq. Unfair and unjust.

And how would you know where Americans feel at home. Some Americans think Austrailians only bathe once a week and never brush their teeth. I have heard people say you guys are like animals. Do I go off spouting this as a truth? I think not. You like to stereotype and make generalizations. Maybe you should lay off the bottle.

No you stated it as being fair

Rikki your sarcasm doesn't become you!

He may well have if he hadn't lied so much.

It relates back to your comment of "Yes we dislike America" so your intimation is very strong, its wether you want to play the politician or not.

Shocked, don't be!! I know you consider all Kiwi's to be a naive little bunch, that may well be the case but no Mr Winston Peters who has changed allegiance umpteen times has at last been caught with his hand in the till, he may well survive with the backing of Helen Clark but his aspirations to ever lead the country are well and truly shot....

Good to see that chip on your shoulder is not weighing you down....giggggles