Shakespeare were he alive today...

I've been involved in a couple of threads where Shakespeare has been brought into the equation, now I'm no expert when it comes to the great man far from it, but I've had some members saying this and quoting that which I question! What little I've read researched, yes I have used Google as well indicates that Shakespeare was a great innovator when it comes to the English language inventing words, slang and phrases that went against the conventions of the time. He wasn't the purist and traditionalist that I keep getting told by members he was, he helped evolve the language that we know today

Had he had access to the mediums that we do, what would he think, what of texting etc the English language seems to be evolving at an increasing rate. If he were alive today I think he would be at the forefront laughing all the way....

What is the point of this post^ if have no interest or you're offended, then why jump on and have a go at me? I think Shakespeare is a lot more open minded than you appear to be. If you don't like the topic don't post, it's pretty simple!

You say Shakespeare never used slang or invented new words, i'ld be interested to know what your professor has to say, from what I understand he has!

Never once have I said I approve of texting language in its entirety other than the effect it's having on the language you spell words differently to your true English, do you get called a butcher, you use texting language in your every day posts...LOL....pot calling the kettle black.

It seems you two are taking this very personally why??

Oh she's an expert....considering she thinks Shakespeare never used slang or made up new words, I don't think she is....that leaves a lot more to be said don't you??

Yes there is so much more to him than made up words of course, even though he made up words himself....!!!

Texting, which you use on this very site!!! Is it primitive and juvenal to use it?, how do you judge yourself?....Its apart of every day life, a tool most use, like it or loath it, and yes Shakespeare as the innovator he was, I'm sure would incorporate some of it

Now I will clarify a misconception you seem to have of me here, some texting by some individuals is hard to understand and gibberish and used to stamp there own individuality on the way they communicate or cover bad spelling maybe, but for me theres no problem with that, if they there friends understand that's fine by me. I won't use it to the same degree, I don't like some of it. it's much like Punk's Gothic's etc you may not like it but it ain't going away.

It seems you two are taking this very personally why

no you were taking what i said out of context and using that against me, i wasn't diminishing the work or the importance of Shakespeare

Abhor the poetry well that's a big statement! my poetry maybe but this site has some talented writers, there has only been one Shakespeare after all.

Why do you consider this thread petty and what laws do you think I abide by???

This is a valid topic that merits discussion as there are a lot on here that use text language daily, it may offend some sensibilities but that's what you get when you question

Maybe I should go back to whats your favourite colour threads....

"For some it's enough that Shakespeare used slang!!"
Slang? Alot of how Shakespeare wrote was every day language there. (I'll ask my professor about this one. He personally worked with a group of professors that gathered his works together. So we'll see) I didn't know he wrote in slang.. where is your proff. Sorry but I find it hard to believe. If it's true fine but it still doesn't change a dang thing. He made the language beautiful he didn't tear it up and throw it to the dogs.

The above was posted by you recently on the trashy thread in the feedback and suggestions forum!

Amanda you jumped right in and attacked me without fully understanding what I was saying you still don't, not all that is said or written becomes mainstream as is with texting, most is discarded some used LOL for example I'm not advocating anything other than have an open mind and see what is happening to the English language you can preach all you want but you won't stop change and I feel texting is more responsible for change than anything else

Shakespeare instigated, actively encouraged change, which is why I used him as an example if the finest literary mind is happy to do this, what are we to reject it outright!

And Bob your reference was to this thread don't hide behind words, this thread had merit we both know that but all that's happened is that I've been criticised without being fully understood or the topic discussed other than by Miss take

<<<<according to the laws you abide by, this could have been you, that's a bit rich even for you! start a thread if you want my opinion on that!!

Nicko, if this thread really is one that merits discussion (and I think it does) then you need to be open to hearing dissenting opinion. All Amanda did was give her thoughts. She wasn't attacking your post.

I think what made it allowable for Shakespeare to do things like make up words, was his existing mastery of the language. Once you understand the rules, you're free to break them. I think that Shakespeare would perhaps be a proponent of the natural evolution of language, but would disapprove of the way it's been butchered lately. There hasn't been so much an expansion of language, but a cutting down of it. People's vocabularies have shrunk, and their knowledge and use of language has lessened. You don't have to look at texting... look at some of the posts on this site. Even the posts that don't use chatspeak are often lacking in basic clarity and articulation.

Sibs I respect your opinion more than most you know that, I was reacting to some of her previous posts to me on another thread called Trashy OK move on I've said my peace re that anyway.

Great post by the way, same to Miss Take

Bob re your pic and your continued reference to the rules I live by, well its a bit tiring don't you think? you have no idea about my views on pro life. Re what you should post ?? are you threatening me?

I understand the avatar, it was the message directed at me and that's the only way it can be interpreted which I object to

Am I missing something here? about telling you or anybody what they can and can't post?

"those lines irk me" well bad luck! in my humble opinion i liked their posts, i didn't discount the others and if i wanted to PM them i would have, do you not praise indivduals posts?

Personal insults now is it Bob well good for you, No thats pointless!

Do what ever you want Bob just delete my posts my thread my account whatever You're the man...

Texting isn't enhancing the English language, it is either short hand or laziness. Luv is never going to replace love and c u l8r is not going to replace see you later. In fact it hurt me just to write those lol I personally don't read poems written in this manner.

As advised this was instigated by other posts in other threads although mainly the Trashy tread. The reference to Shakespeare in those posts I felt warranted this thread being created. It wasn't started to facilitate the continuation of the negative elements of the Trashy thread. This thread was started to discuss the changing face of the English language and that even perceived perceptions are incorrect for example Shakespeare who used slang (new words) some invented by him.

I've used the medium of Texting to illustrate as an example the affect this is having on the language and how English will evolve due to it, wether I support the use of Texting is irrelevant to the argument and I never said I support it either way, its happening whether we like it or not.

Whether this site accepts poems in the texting style is not controlled by me, but I think they should be allowed, it's a fact of life that some communicate in this style in everyday life outside of the mobile phone. Are any on this site qualified to judge what constitutes what styles of poetry are acceptable, other than personal opinion. Who are we to stand in judgement on what doctrine is acceptable to the poetry community?? If enough members support this style why not.

Because the English language continues to evolve, texting being one of the reasons, some have criticised me incorrectly as being a proponent of this style. I have been called nonsensical, that I live in a fantasy world an ass, stupid etc etc ok big deal some would say, I reacted to that criticism, wrong I know and its escalated from there

Amanda I'm not saying Shakespeare would support the texting language he may well not, we will never know. In fact I didn't originally bring him into the equation others did but once here I thought I'd run with it. My point is that he is was an innovator, he invented slang and helped change the English language. He was also vilified by some of his peers for his use of the English language as some vilify Texting, some slang words become accepted into mainstream English and are no longer called slang

That's the crux of it.

^"As I said before, the fact that kids are writing poetry is far more important than the way the choose to display it"

Probably the most valid point so far!

Jealousy is a horrible thing Rikki Ha.........

Here is a list of the words shakespeare is credited with inventing.

http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1384010

He was a clever and very deeply empathetic writer, but like so many old school writers he is only so vaulted now because at the time, someone made a big deal of him and raised him above all the other poets and playwrights of the age, who I'm sure could have been much more talented.

As an example of what I mean. Look at the music industry right now. The kinds of bands and "artists" who are being lifted up by those with the power and money to do so are more often than not socially appealing comercially viable bands who can make them money by being popular and with masses of the time. The musicians with real talent and something to say are usually on the fringes of this success.

Shakespeare, and even my own much beloved Robert Burns, were I think no different. Just lucky people given some money and good press above all the others of their time.

I think he would have taken modern slang, and even such mediums as jounalistic shorthand and text speak and made it into something wonderful.

It's dissapointing to me that this discussions seems to have been jumped on by the Mods. I came back in here because it looked like a good debate..and now it's kinda into "he said she said."

Just like old times eh. Sad.

If Shakespeare were alove today he would
1. Be very old.
2. Not understand half of what we say.

Well Illum, you have dear old Nicko posting what I thought was a reasonably interesting thread...and then, bam...almost all the mods disagreeing with him, but also, and it's plainly clear to anyone who can read well...being rather personal against him.

It's all there to see.

The worth of the thread idea, and some of the more well thought our responses are still valid, but it's been sullied by what appears to me to be rather personal attacks against him as a person, and not the content of his post.

Bob considering a number of your posts were personally directed at me and not discussing the topic, it's the pot calling the kettle black don't you think and about as relevant as calling me asinine, but this is not the place is it.

The fact that I'm not liked by a number of mods is not hidden, old wounds maybe and related to what happened last year and why so few come on the boards these days, for some reason some mods feel threatened by those that disagree with them and there views, become defensive and then use the mod status to threaten

As Kevin has said this is an adult site this is an adult thread, there seems to be so few decent debates theses days when they happen half of them get locked or threatened to be shut down, and you mods take everything so personally. If I'd called a mod asinine I'd be reprimanded, suspended, deleted, yet you guys are above that it seems.

You know this site has so much to offer it WAS so vibrant! but now it gets ham strung by the administration and how its policed. This topic had merit, much more than some innate "my fav colour" threads that dominates so many other forums yet its degenerated as Kevin said into he said she said. Having said this I know I'll get lambasted for saying just this and that's enough said. Of the 8 active mods there are only three that intervene on a regular basis what of the others? Is it all for one and one for all no matter what as individuals you think.

Why do I bother, why bother at all........

You seem to think there is some conspiracy led by Kevin "Kevins group" well you are mistaken no such group exists that I know of! I've had little or no communication with Kevin over the last 12 months, we are in the same club yes but that's it, he has been very quiet as have most of us. I wasn't a member for almost a year due to work and private issues that had to be addressed. The fact we agree on this issue is coincidence nothing more.

You seem to think we are against you, that's not the case. I know you are passionate about this site. But I think individual bias and not just yours, plays too bigger part on the forums, they should be able to run there course with little or no threats or intervention, 99% of members who post are adults they should not be constantly stifled

I'm not saying im innocent yes I've over reacted at times, but from where I sit there's far too much intervention from the mods as I said to illuminata the mods should take there foot off the power peddle or some of the forums will be obsolete.

We should be working together there is no site within a site.

Thats how I see it and I don't think I'm alone, I think you should all take note for all our sakes.

Peace.