Religion or Death? What do you think?

We had a 32 year old patient the other day who is going to die because she recently got a mechanical heart valve which requires anticoagulation (blood thinning). Well, even therapeutic levels of the blood thinning was causing her to bleed, so they stopped the thinners and then she had a stroke (from a clot). They restarted them and then she started bleeding in her brain (another kind of stroke). They stopped them again and she got a blood clot in her leg (it could cause one to form around her valve, I am suprised it hasn't yet....)they started again and she started bleeding in her abdomen. This vicious cycle will continue until she dies which won't be very long. The alternative is for her to get a pig valve, which is against her religion. This would enable her to go without the blood thinners. She absolutely refuses!

I wonder how many people would go against their religion when faced with death. Then again maybe no one can answer this cause none of us really know what we would do until faced with the situation personally. I would just like to hear people's thoughts on the matter.

There have been many strange things done in the name of Religion. I know that it would save her and that there is a great deal of problems with what she is going to do. I mean all we have to do is look at history, the Crusades all done in the name of Religion.

There was a law that was actually veto'ed I believe in the states. It said that if a person believed the prayer could save them and didn't believe in modern medicine that they couldn't be processed for murder if they didn't take them to a hopsital and it was something that was curable(it was also on Law and Order). It's basically saying that if your daughter/son gets a brain tumor that can be cured and you don't take him to a hospital and pray with all your heart that he will be saved, we know different, but there are still people out there who believe that.

It's a strange subject, she will not go against her religion and most likely will die for the religion, because she doesn't want to become inpure in the eyes of her 'god' which is a strange concept for most, but a lot of people believe this.

I guess the title of the post should have been religion AND death since it is the religious beliefs influencing the refusal of medical treatment that will eventually lead to her death. Or Religion or Life........oh, well, you guys see what I meant :)

The law you are referring to is The Child Abuse Prevention and Treatment Act.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_Abuse_Prevention_and_Treatment_Act

I think that until children are old enough to make their own decisions regarding religion and medical care that someone needs to protect them.

I will give you an example:

When I was I think about 10 years old, I was visiting my biological father who was a Jehovah's Witness. I got strep throat as I had many times during my childhood and was absolutely miserable. He refused to let me call my mom to pick me up and take me to the doctor and instead made me drink some liquid Golden Seal. That made it worse. Every time I went to visit him he made me go to the Kingdom Hall. I did not share his beliefs but was not free to express my own beliefs or question things because I would get in trouble. I was relieved to get home and have my mother take me to get antibiotics.....now that I am older and I know that a strep infection can cause Rheumatic Fever and can cause vegetation to grow on and damage your heart valves, it angers me that there isn't a more strict law that mandates medical care even for the little things which may not cause sudden death but can lead to death and/or permanent damage. It also makes me wonder how I would feel if his actions would have caused me permanent damage. I guess that doesn't matter though, cause I wrote him off long ago......This is only something as simple as strep throat! Imagine all the children with diabetes and other more serious ailments!

I think some people have a sick and twisted interpretation of the bible and that no one child or adult should have another's beliefs forced upon them.

I agree with Illuminati, if that's what she really wishes we can only accept and respect her choice.

Yes, she is Muslim

Dumber than a pig?

stay classy P and Q.

Sorry, Boobie, thought I did say that. What religion did you think it went against? Geez, I thought you had ESP! Thanks for disappointing me!

If anyone on here is Muslim, maybe you could explain it to us better. I knew Mulims don't eat pork, but why couldn't she accept a pig valve to save her life? We had a communication barrier. She was from Somalia and didn't speak much English. She did know how to say NO PIG VALVE, I AM MUSLIM! And no, to seeing the burr hole in her head where they drained her subdural hematoma cause it was causing her brain to shift. She had her head wrap on. Guess she wasn't too worried about getting an infection.........

If she would die before going against her religion, that is her choice and it's no one else's business when we get right down to it. It's not suicide, and it's definitely not selfish. Some people put their religious beliefs before everything. It is their purpose in life. It is life. To them.

I'm atheist.. an agnostic more specifically, but I acknowledge and respect the beliefs and practices of others as long as they are not inflicting harm on others and/or being selfish. Putting one's religion before oneself is a selfless act of sacrifice and servanthood, is it not?

Go figure, "servanthood" is passing the detection of my dictionary.

To each his own. I just wanted some rationale. Actually it was my business because although she was refusing some medical care, she was after all a patient at the hospital, more specifically, my patient. I need to be able to be an advocate for her and if I know exactly why she is refusing certain things, I may be able to find other things that are acceptable under her religion. For example, other hospitals use cow valves.....I could have facilitated her transfer there. I do not judge people or their beliefs. I just try to provide the best medical care possible while they are under my care in the hospital. Obviously if she wanted nothing done at all, she wouldn't have been there.

How much responsibility do we take for another life when rational is not a factor.

This is indeed a moral dilemma

Rachel, you don't need to get defensive. Obviously you handled the situation perfectly, you didn't force her to do something she didn't want to do, you simply provided her with the option. Case and point, we're not in disagreement.
You should get her shipped to the hospital with the cow valves.

BLT - Big Laxative Tonight...now why would I do that sluvy? It already pours from your mouth with such ease, we don't need it coming out the other end! Shut up? Now you know I have such a hard time doing that! LOL!

Not defensive, just explaining why it was infact, my business. Thank you, I like to think I handle myself well in ethical dilemas. I don't know if a muslim would accept a cow valve.....She doesn't understand enough English and the hospital doesn't have a Somalian interpreter.....the nerve. They should have a hotline where we could call and get an interpreter for any language!

My dad has lung cancer. He refuses chemo. He said he doesn't want to live the rest of his days miserable, nauseated and weak. I can understand where he is coming from. I respect his decision and I won't try to change his mind either. That doesn't mean I agree, after all he is my dad and I selfishly want him to be around longer. He won't even go get a bone scan cause he doesn't want to know if the cancer spread, he just wants to fish and golf till he dies. I will just be here in whatever capacity he needs me to be.

That's so sad Rachel, I'm very sorry.

Thank you all for your kind words and thank you all for sharing your opinions.