Church

The innocence of a child will believe what they're told;
and in some cases this is good.
Until they see the corruption and run as far away from religion as they can. Only returning when they need faith, which is not what religion is about.

And thank you. :)

I think it is very easy to get church and religion confused with God because it is usually through religion that most of us learn about God

I will confess that it is in my hours of deepest needs that I feel closest to my personal God

I believe in the mystical sense that even contemplatives must seek God alone
being in a monastery or a convent does not make one holy no more than walking into an AA Meeting will make you sober

Religious people face as many challenges as the agnostics and atheist but it is not always fair or accurate to judge a book by its cover

http://www.katsandogz.com/onreligion.html

My religion has taught me this:

The Lord has said that in the last days there will be wars and rumors of wars, and the whole earth shall be in commotion, and men's hearts shall fail them. I recognize that in this world, government leaders sometimes send military troops to war to defend their nations and ideals.

If someone is called upon to go into battle, they should not delight in bloodshed. If someone must go to war, they should go in a spirit of truth and righteousness, with a desire to do good. They should go with love in their hearts for all God's children, including those on the opposing side. Then, if they are required to shed another's blood, their action will not be counted as a sin.

Firstly, I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (or LDS). "The Lord has said that in the last days there will be wars and rumors of wars, and the whole earth shall be in commotion, and men's hearts shall fail them," came from Doctrine and Covenants 45:26. This is talking about signs of the last days. I realize that not everyone believes in the Book of Mormon, but there are other scriptures in the bible. (2 Timothy 3:1) "This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come," which to me would have to include wars. (Luke 21:26) "Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken."

"It has been stated by those that know more than I, that since the end of World War II, not a day has passed when there hasn't been some conflict or war in some part or other of our world."

^You're right, and all the more reason to believe that the end is near, no? And when I say this I don't mean tomorrow, a month, or a couple of years from now. I'm talking about in this generation or the next few. To some, that may seem like a while, but when compared to the time of, say, the earth's existence, a couple of generations is infinitesimal.

"If a person must go and fight in a war, there would be very few who would "delight in bloodshed". People go to war believing that they are defending their country and thus they all have the belief that they do so in the "spirit of truth and righteousness" "

^^You're right, a lot of people don't find pleasure in doing so, but you'd be surprised how many actually do.

"As for going into battle "with love in their hearts for all men" that is just an idiotic and childish belief because if such were in fact so, he would not be able to kill his enemy and you can bet your boots that his enemy will be trying to kill him. It comes down to a matter of kill or be killed."

^^^There's a difference between killing someone because you have to, but still having love and respect for that person or people, and killing someone because you hate or despise them or their people.

I'd just like to say that if it appears that I am defending war, I'm not, but because of the wickedness of people, war is sometimes, unfortunately, necessary. I do hope people may be at peace one with another during times of trouble, regardless of what loyalties they may have to different governments or parties.

And Ricky, what if you are forced or drafted into war? And it is, as you said, kill or be killed? Surely you don't just allow yourself to be killed? I'd think of that as suicide, which is also a sin. So would you still count it as a sin?

I apologize for misspelling your name, Rikki, but in my defense it was about 1:30am. Nevertheless, I am sorry.

No, the Book of Mormon is not another version of the Bible. That's a common misconception. The Book of Mormon is only another testament of Christ. It tells the stories of what was happening in the Americas while all of the stuff was happening in the Middle East. Latter-day Saints don't only read the Book of Mormon either, we also read and study the Bible, and in particular the King James version.

When all the "stuff" was happening in the Middle East the tribes in America had never seen a white man and would not for another 1,500 years. They were busy fighting eachother and trying to slaughter eachother

Actually he book of Mormon does not claim white men came to the Americas only Nephites from Jerusalem

Wow, I never expected this much output. It gives me hope that so many others believe also, and no matter our other beliefs, so many believe in God still. I thought it was getting to be a rare thing.:^)

We believe the King James version to be the most correctly translated. Anything that might be wrong or that says something but means something totally different than what you would think when you read it is, for the most part, clarified in the footnotes.

Monks translated the bible in nothing but candlelight, so it is possible that incorrect things could have been written, but i don't believe things were purposely taken out or added. I heard that if they couldn't tell if a number was 300 or 3000, they would pick the larger number.

Lol... Seriously Rikki you're now questioning the exodus? Ever heard of wikipedia, I think they'll give you a bit more incite on the egyptian jews...Lol

People should spend less time questioning things and trying to prove things. I feel it to be an unfulfilling life. More time should be spent just believing and exercising faith. That's just my personal belief, though.

People should spend more time questioning and trying to prove things instead of blindly believing them. To do otherwise, i believe to be an unfulfilling and waste of a life. That's just my personal belief though.

There are many scientists who believe God was an alien. Do you believe that just because scientists said so?

Scientists are laughed at when they first present a theory, but they can be later proved right. You laugh at me because I believe in God and what the bible says, I can't wait to prove you wrong. When the Lord comes again, you'll know.

Not that I'm trying to get involved in the spat going on, but Noir, wikipedia is definitly not the place for anybody to go to get their facts. It's free to edit by the public; in other words free for those who know little to nothing at all to blow hot-air.

I'm really getting annoyed with seeing this forum at all let alone always at the top of the page, I think it's ran it's course quit long enough. I'm waiting for something new.

^Was that a direct hit at me? ;)

Kidding. And if it really was, I'll accept it completely.

I know because of the spirit I feel when I read the scriptures and attend my church meetings that it is true.

(James 1:5) If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

I do ask questions, to my Heavenly Father, and if I ask in faith, nothing wavering, He will give me any answer I need.

"Why wait for someone else to do something. Why not start a debate on a topic that you enjoy?? Then others might be able to interact with you."

^ Already way ahead of you. :) I'm not annoyed with the post because I am not getting involved and others not involved with me, I could careless & actually don't have anything to talk about for the post it doesn't interest me (at the moment). It just seems like people are bickering at one another on here rather than discussing, or so I thought. :S

I'm not saying you should never ask questions, but what I am saying is don't try to find fault with every little thing and choose not to believe anything because there is no proof. That is what faith is. Confidence or trust in a person or thing; belief without needing to be proven.

---EDIT---

No one's bickering here. I was just stating my opinions and beliefs.

Lets face it the church is were our gripes and annoyances stem from but it is the people who claim to be believers who inflict the pain not the churches. It is wrong interpretation of the churches values that people
inflict on us that cause us sorrow when something goes wrong in our church, be he or she a zealot, a manic preacher etc.
We must remember the church is there to succour and give hope. Ray S

Not all churches "force their ideas upon their followers under pain of eternal damnation." I don't believe that you go to hell if you are not baptized or do not believe. (Not really relevant, but I absolutely hate it when people say "saved." You can't just be baptized and you're automatically saved. You have to keep the commandments and live righteously too.) I believe that those who have died and have not had the chance to except the gospel into their lives will have a chance to in the spirit world, but it is their choice.

And not all churches are like what you've described above. A lot are, yes, but not all.

I have been asked several times, "Have you been saved?" I had never heard this phrase before, being from the north of the US, but I later figured it must be a southern thing. I was like.... What? And they said, "Saved.. you know, baptized?"

Haha, that's not only the south, but yeah you're right! I was fully immersed under water for my baptism at the age of eight. I don't like it when they baptize babies... It's not like they have the free agency to choose for themselves whether they want to be baptized. I guess at age eight you don't have enough knowledge to know if that's what you truly want either, but I suppose you know more than a baby would.

I used to go to church but the amount of hypocrites there and people who were ultimate snobs just put me off of the whole experience.

I knew one guy who was all saintly and righteous at church but used to go out all night and fuck random girls and hook up with friends of mine.

And then there was this one guy who thought he was so religious and made everyone think he was perfect but he would go home and beat his wife and even had stories floating around that he was molesting boys.

I just cant deal with that much hypocrisy and the people that were SO full of themselves and would not let new people in the church feel welcome were just horrible.

I never want to go back.

I know they are everywhere, but when they are in Church it is worse, because you know they are lying and basically putting on an act in front of everyone, I cant stand it and do not want to be there. It sickens me.

I hate religon because of personal experiance but i hate it also because most people just use it to say they are more morially superior than other people and how they say sick things like i read in a post earlyer a black person was called a sinner because of the colour of his skin and they shun you if you have a different sexual orriantation eg: gay bisexual lesbian

and the bible black preachers that say you will go to hell if you do not go to church or if you write left handed i mean wtf? really in my veiw what religon sees difference must be bad and that is such a narrow minded veiw

and there are the people who think killing in the name of god makes it right

^You are 100% right!

^^ Kudos!

That is also something that I've always believed.