Janis & Dainz

There have been a lot of posts over the last year or so about this site going down the drain due to Janis & Dainz's lack of involvement...

So what is it about this site that you would like Janis and Dainz to change? redesign, tweeks...what??

The question applies more to the Mods.....as they communicate, contact (with little or no response obviously) them on a regular basis.

So the question is... how do we take the site from Janis & Dainz? It's probably illegal, but I live on the edge. Who's with me?

:P

There is almost nothing we can do in terms of "fixing" or buying the site. I personally have coded several things for this site: such as code to resolve security issues, profanity filter, username filters, suspension coding, etc. But none of it was ever implemented. As Amanda has stated, we have indeed contacted Janis/Dainz and offered to buy the site, but we were declined everytime we asked.

Bottom line is, you either stay and enjoy the site the way it is "flaws and all" ... go to another site ... or start your own site. Other than that, there really isn't much I can say besides our Admin don't care at all.

"Saints have no moderation, nor do poets, just exuberance."
- Anne Sexton

Her eighth collection of poetry is entitled The Awful Rowing Toward God. The title came from her meeting with a Roman Catholic priest who, although unwilling to administer last rites, told Anne Sexton "God is in your typewriter". This gave the poet the desire and willpower to continue living and writing. The Awful Rowing Toward God and The Death Notebooks are among her final works and both centre on the theme of dying

I don't think it is time for last rites, just exuberance

Who asked about buying the site? I didn't.

Im sure we all heard and get the voice of your ~irrational exuberance~ but please don't post these morally wrong ideas on the main boards
Thanks

Meh. Guess no one wants to talk high treason.

Talk, talk, talk, no action... HELLO! we really need changes around here... if anyone can think of a way to change things, I will totally sign the petition!!!

I wonder if you have a site you aren't interested in .....why keep it? They must be making money on advertising or something.......it just doesn't make sense! Then periodically the site goes down for a couple days and then reappears.........

And modeled like this Ha! We could use some improvements!

Does anyone even EVER chat with Janis or Dainz or do they just ignore the Mods when you guys try to contact them?

Well for someone with such a poor opinion of this site, why are you still here?

We might all be guilty of
Prejudgice

No Edward, that was painful.

Good to see you two crazy coots back on these lustreless boards for a bit. Where have you been? I find that many intelligent people are prone to voyeurism.

Bob, I reckon that the people who run this site to the ground are the many who are no longer using it, and not the few left who are justifiably abusing it. At least someone out there still gives a fart.

Seems NV has been euthanized, again.
Judged, Guilty on all Accounts.

NV :( He's suspended?
Bah! He's one of the best.

Haha, Janis would've done more than moderate my post if he'd seen it. But he never would've.

Hey Janis, you suck!
Can I say that?

What if I add a cute :P face?

NV is suspended because of some obscure reason that happened years ago? How pathetic. Some interesting conversation would have been welcome, but no, nope, that is too scary and out of place around here.
The people who run this site...to the ground...ugh.

One suspension is enough to be permanently banned? I think that includes half my club..... not to draw attention to the fact :\ haha

Really though, I'm quite fond of NV. He's intelligent & vibrant. Surely what he's added to the site & what he has to offer greatly outweigh anything that could've been said or done?
Forgiveness is vital beyond personal measure; it's in the natural subsequence of justice. So says me.

Forgiveness is vital beyond personal measure;
Now those are Words of Wisdom.
Upon finding many intelligent people prone to voyeurism;
I had to look up voyeurism, that would not be me,
I am more prone to having my cake and eating it too. Tally ho!

There is something about this sight that keeps me coming back, but I am not sure what I would want to change.

If I knew NV's email, I'd ask him nicely to go through the appeal process. Shame he hasn't already.

Forgiveness doesn't rule out persecution... I s'pose my statement was indefinite. Woops.
Punishment has its place, but there is a basic order to ethics. In simplistic form: punishment then forgiveness. Entire books are written on this idea though, so it's unnerving to write such a subjective abbreviation.

Being so broad is going to open up a whirlwind of debate I bet.
Crap.

I think the point was there are rules to follow regardless of who you are. If you break rules, there is a consequence and an appeal process aka-"forgiveness".

And my question remains unanswered.......Do the Mods even get an answer when they contact Janis or Dainz?

You Mods are confusing the heck out of me naming yourselves Janis Krumins!

Fooooooo...

Why don't you tell him why you think he sucks and pm it to him and see if you get a response........

I think this site could be better............just with a coule little things like being able to add color and change the font style, etc..... but are these things only Janis or Dainz can do?

Color, style of font, etc. are the least of our concerns, there are bigger projects that should be done first before some small enhancements of the look/feel.

^our concerns^

And who is "our"?

Your comment seems to imply that you don't really care what other members think.......I am assuming that by "our" you are talking about the Mods.

Little things can make a big difference and can be done more quickly than "bigger" projects.

I beg to differ.

"None of us have special powers."

Speak for yourself!
Just kidding :P Really, I meant that a few of the mods are computer whizzes and could find ways to format the site differently or what not.

Jane, I think what Britt meant was that we don't have the current tools to do coding ourselfs. We need a lot of info from Janis/Dainz before anyone (such as myself) has access to making real effective changes on the site. I don't think she was refering to the knowledge some of the Mods have about technilogical issues.

Thanks Britt for the explaination:)

In my honest humble opinion this site has been moderated into the ground, and I feel that this is the reason more than any other, that this site is not as it once was!

And I wonder if one of the reasons that Janis and Danz don't give the moderators the encoding they want is for fear they will destroy it completely.

Thats the truth as I see it! Having written this, no doubt this is considered treasonous by those that have the power to evict me, if thats the case so be it.

Nicko

"And I wonder if one of the reasons that Janis and Danz don't give the moderators the encoding they want is for fear they will destroy it completely."

HAHAHA!!! I had to laugh at this, Nicko, do you really think Janis and/or Dainz really care/fear what will happen to this site? As far as I am concerned, and many others, they don't give a dam.

Seriously, if they cared that much, they would've done something by now instead of just sitting around.

Oh, and by the way, I've spoken with Janis (when he was a little more active) and we were discussing coding and what we should do. He did say that he would get me coding rights for one of the projects we were discussing at the time, but it feel through. So I highly doubt Janis is concerned about giving use rights and destroying his site.

Should I care that Janis and Dainz are here or not...Not in the slightest...

And frankly shame on them for making something then leaving it...Stop copying someone else's work...

LOL, knew I'd get that response from the moderators, and Britt I'm not specifically having a go at you but your last post covers you all," I can edit lock delete penalize.. But I find myself rarely doing that anymore as no one is around. Kinda boring. :P"

edit lock delete penalize

i can put your 4 words into one, censorship.

Its all been said before....As to whether or not I've contributed anything positive to this site. I've seen how people react to criticism, constructive or otherwise, How do you gift wrap criticism you can't which is why you will never agree with me! so name calling is of no import..! . I know the input I've put in and the friends I've made, I also consider myself a better poet due to this site. Many a good discussion was attempted in the early days, before they were moderated to extinction
the Moderators think I have nothing positive to say about how they run this site, not true there is a lot that goes on that we don't see, the weekly contests, etc etc etc yes a lot of work is put in, i've said that before, but having been a member of this site for about 4 - 5 years and watching it fade to obscurity is just plain sad, would a tweak here and there make a difference not really, the functionality of this site is still good.

This site is no longer a positive experience for many, why?? you need to look beyond Janis and Danz!

The only reason i linger is because of The Club.

This is the first time I've paid the main forums a visit in a while... thought I'd pop in quickly & make sure nothing interesting has happened.
But I couldn't just pop out!
What on earth?
Alright, I don't think Nicko's hit the mark as to Dainz & Janis' intentions. I agree with Joe that J & D don't give a dam. Making the assumption of a conspiracy seems ridiculous. Sorry Nicko. However, telling him he contributes nothing positive to this site is downright mean and uncalled for! He writes great poetry, stimulates debates, and is an inspirational, motivated person in general. I'm shaking my head at the lot of you that would say such mean things about him. I can't recall ever saying to anyone since outgrowing my naiive youth that they "contribute nothing positive" or "get on my bad side in two seconds." Mean, mean, mean! I don't care if Nicko isn't offended. Shame on you.
A mod's job IS censorship. Why would you be offended by that if you believe in what you do? Being a mod is doing what's best for everyone on this site... censoring profanity and abusive behavior, etc. That's the job you've been assigned to carry out. Your job isn't to take things personally and abuse the power you've earned. Suggesting that censorship is editing someone's posts because you dislike the poster or because you're having a bad day is pointing to a corrupt group of moderators! You should reevaluate yourselves.

Sheesh.

"Moderators are the cause of the downfall of this site."

You didn't mean to put words in his mouth, but then you proceeded to.
The job of a moderator is a respected one. I think P&Q *should* have moderators and they're much needed. However, the individuals picked as moderators may not ALL be the best for the job. Abuse of power is definitely a factor in the lack of activity on the forums. There are plenty of other factors. We don't need to play the blame game, but I hope you are all able to see the difference between disliking the job of a moderator and disliking the attitude a specific moderator holds.

I know I'm below you so listening to me would be like a lieutenant listening to a private, right? But you should listen. Even if you're frustrated because you feel like I'm lecturing you, it's not my place, & you don't want me to be right... I'm pretty sure this time I actually am right.

Your reference to Kevin reminds me of a member of my club that helped draw some lines on the coloring book we call the disscusion forum. Have you ever wondered why someone from Latvia would honor Independence Day?

Your responses to my post are disappointing and disrespectful. It's funny because I was not expecting to receive negative responses this time around, but it's become a tradition to not listen to what others have to say while insisting that you do. I have nothing more to say and as you wish, I will stay away for longer and keep hope that the younger mods are not so bent in their ways that they are blind to the truth even when it hits them on the nose.
Britt, I appreciate your humble response.
Before I go, I would like to say that I think Joe is a model moderator. He keeps his job and his friendships separate, doesn't divulge any information that he shouldn't, respects his job, his fellow moderators and all the members on this site, and he never responds to members abusively but always with an open, honest, impersonal demeanor (as he should). The rest of you lean towards evasiveness, denial, disregard & rudeness when it comes to association with site members.

"From your response I take it you like the merry-go-round. So let the fun continue."

The merry-go-round is another fine metaphor for this site ,yet my personal favorite is " P and Q Theology" author: sibyllene
status: member
date: 2007.11.05 12:20
and your response then
author: Amanda Barnhart
status: moderator
date: 2007.11.05 12:54

[ post answer ]
"It goes to show you that some people actually do like the way this site, but feel to scared to voice their feelings. I wonder could it be for fear of getting slandered by others who don't find their opinion to be the same as theirs? Hmmmm... what a pity" ANB
Search Forums P and Q Theology

Generalizations of administrators and moderators can be be annoying, and maybe no poem ever posted on this site deserves even a good rating, but we try to stay inside the lines of the coloring book
"Up and down" "around and around" we search for a thrill, while the regarded artist pass us by, because our efforts are moderate

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results". Albert Einstein

If you believe the sticky rules will attract masters you are a slave to delusions

"Down voting sucks but only for those who are harboring illusions, because the reality is that there is not one poem on this site that should score above 3..."
Illuminatix RTVW
Does that mean when we congratulate winners of the weekly contest we are celebrating the mediocraty we all have in common?

If you like we can blame that on Janis & Dainz, or we can look at the man or woman in the mirror

Care to continue to go in circles or would you actually like to enlighten us with an answer to my questions?
I am still not sure why you were addressing Kevin several post back unless someone deleted his post, but it is not uncommon for moderators to make members feel too scared to voice their feelings I think general disscusions are more useful than having them so specific they get old befre any issue is resolved

date: 2007.05.24 23:45

searh forum Molested

[ post answer ] ANB
I hope that this will help one lost soul out there tonight..

[I am sorry Amanda, but it's against the website rules to post poems in the forums, even when you are trying to help people. If anyone wants to read the poem you can see it on her profile, and I suggest you do, it's very good.]

[ Moderated by : Kevin

The people on this site are not so stupid that they can't see that we all don't play by the same rules

KHALIL THE HERETIC
"When first published in the original Arabic, this book aroused considerable agitation and intrigue. It was burned publicly in the Beirut market place by furious church and state officials, who denounced it as poisonous and dangerous to the peace of the country. Gibran himself was exiled. But this was at a time when Lebanon was in virtual slavery to oppressive Turkish rule.Years later his exile was remanded, and the church embraced him without conciliation on his part. Yet the record remains as Gibran wrote it here: his profoundly felt anger and indignant protest at the vicious inequality of man and woman in marriage - the wretched failure of the principles of law and justice and the corrupt, thieving practices of religious administration in the Near East of his time." [from front dust jacket flap.]

I can imagine the sense of pride an author feels when they are censored though I would prefer not to be banned

I know you are not talking to me because I have not posted a negative comment since I share your theory of negativity rubberlips

"Oh so we're going to pull things from our past eh. Bravo bravo, to bad I wasn't really at that time a member of this site nor was I ever a moderator when Kevin was one. So that's irrelevant to say the least. I think it was probably one of my first posts here. Shame on me I didn't read the rules and should have been warned as I was or penalized."
I have never thought of moderators and rules as the enemy. As long as we stay within the lines of the coloring book we will be no threat to real poetry sites and we shall continue to celebrate mediocrity. I am sorry that anyone finds reality negative.

First let me start by saying I'm disapointed in both "sides" - yes, that's right, the members as well as my fellow mods.

To start, the members acuse and beat around the bush quiet a bit when it comes to discussions; however, my fellow moderators aren't far behind...they as well tend to be the same as the members, acussing and/or beating around the bush. It's disapointing to see (what we all like to call ourselfs) "Adults" acting in such a manor.

Now having said that, I would like to see kind words exchanged and a discussion about the original topic at hand, "So what is it about this site that you would like Janis and Dainz to change?"

And no, that question is not just for the Mods, but the members as well.

[Any further bickering and/or off topic posts will get this thread locked.]

P.S. Treat others' the way you would want to be treated.

"In all fairness to Janis I think he simply got tired of the bs, if you noticed him and Dainz basically stopped participating after the Ken fiasco and the constant spamming of the boards and his site....Still, I'd like to see him around or as was previously stated, give the administation duties to someone who will be consistently involved, and yet who can he really trust to do that......It's easy to sit back and complain, and I'm no exception, but if I offered something free to the public and they turned around and dumped on me each and every day, I think I'd throw my hands in the air as well...."

I agree with rubberlips totally. To be honest I have asperger syndrome and have always found the wording of the rules and guildlines confusing. I doubt than Janis is the author of them.

Your job isn't to take things personally and abuse the power you've earned."

If you want to blame where blame is due, look no further than former mod Kevin...He's the very definition of power abuse...

Not only he suspend and ban my account without just cause, he did it while claiming that the site would be better off without me...Which really is quite funny as he often repeats it...Lol

However, if it were any other mods who did the same as he, I would rally to your side...I'm afraid you're beating around the wrong bush....

If you want blame the mods for the "over-zealous" modding shouldn't you blame yourselves...I mean you've complained ever since the "clubs" was enforced in this site...Everyone is allied with one another...Its sad, but what ruined this site was the formation of clubs...

"If you want to blame where blame is due, look no further than former mod Kevin...He's the very definition of power abuse..."

Why would anyone complain about Kev's moderation when he's no longer a mod? Even when he tried to rejoin the mods, he was denied. I have nothing to say about how good or bad of a job he did in the past. I'm uninterested in the past at this point.

"If you want blame the mods for the "over-zealous" modding shouldn't you blame yourselves...I mean you've complained ever since the "clubs" was enforced in this site..."

I don't think I've been over-zealous, but it's human to overlook our own flaws (so maybe I have)...
However, it's my duty as a member to voice my opinions w/o being abusive. It's the duty of a mod to uphold the rules and answer opinions/questions of the members without being abusive/overly personal.
I directed my cause to mods in general and I was scolded for not naming specific mods. When I named a specific mod that I think upholds the rules the way he should, I was scolded for naming someone specific. So which is it you want?
I'm not blaming the mods for the downfall of this site. I agree with someone above who asked, "what downfall?" I happen to think moderation hasn't changed much since the older days. The forums have quieted down. I'm not sure why. I think if the chat room was brought back (someday), P&Q forums would thrive once more. Or not.
Regardless, I don't want to be responded to with the anger you feel towards other people in my club. I'm an individual and I'm posting in this forum with all my own thoughts. We haven't formulated strategies for pissing mods off or anything ridiculous like that. When we post on the main forums, we're posting entirely apart from each other.
I saw the nasty comments being thrown at Nicko. If I had seen the same being done to a stranger, I would've written a very similar response scolding mods for being hurtful & careless with their words.

Being a mod is a big responsibility and commitment, to protect the rules of this site and do so ONLY within the rules (without letting emotions get the better of you). When I see those in charge making low-blow comments, I feel it's my job as a member to highlight the corruption... at least *try* to bring attention to it.
As mods, you should not be offended if I mention things like "abuse of power" or "corrupt." I'm not saying you always abuse your power or that you will always abuse your power... I'm not accusing any of you of being bad people. I haven't even suggested that I dislike you.
I would not make a good mod myself because I take things too personally! Maybe some of you don't make good mods for the same reason. Maybe not.
It's just something to think about so no rush jumping on your high-horses.

"So what is it about this site that you would like Janis and Dainz to change? redesign, tweeks...what??"

How about taking away all the pale pink? It's unbecoming.

Why would anyone complain about Kev's moderation when he's no longer a mod? Even when he tried to rejoin the mods, he was denied. I have nothing to say about how good or bad of a job he did in the past. I'm uninterested in the past at this point."

Kevin was used as an example, when "certain" members state that the mods suspends/bans when angered/annoyed... Kevin is the very model you complain about... The current mods haven't yet done that... Which I pointed out

it's my duty as a member to voice my opinions w/o being abusive. It's the duty of a mod to uphold the rules and answer opinions/questions of the members without being abusive/overly personal."

Isn't that what pm's are for... The mods are members as well, they have just as much complaining about you as you are them..

I saw the nasty comments being thrown at Nicko. If I had seen the same being done to a stranger, I would've written a very similar response scolding mods for being hurtful."

Lol... Seriously don't make me ROFL...

"Lol... Seriously don't make me ROFL..."

I think it's sad that any of you wouldn't believe me. Really sad. It's like I've been placed in a suffocating box that I can't get out of! Jeeeeeeeeez.