America’s Schizophrenic Muslim Policy - Journey into Ame

Americas Schizophrenic Muslim Policy - Journey into America: The Challenge of Islam

book by : Akbar Ahmed

about the book :a report :

A year ago this past June, President Obama gave a speech in Cairo signaling Americas intent to improve relations with the Muslim world. The effort is a major goal for the Obama administration, and the President has dedicated himself to winning the hearts and minds of Muslims across the globe. Dr. Akbar Ahmed, a renowned Islamic Scholar, in his latest book Journey into America clearly outlines that its not the heart and minds of the global Muslim world Obama needs to win, but the hearts and minds of American Muslims.

Homegrown terrorism is the most worrisome phenomena in the United States today, he writes. And thats true; recent events have demonstrated the most pervasive and serious threats to the country are coming from within, rather than outside of our borders. America and the American leadership must first demonstrate to the rest of the world the respect America holds for its Muslims and the high regard in which it holds Islam. Being successful in these endeavors at home will change the perception Muslims have of us around the world.

Maybe Muslims have to do a bit of PR for themselves as well. For instance, it may not be well known to American non-Muslims that Muslims all over the world aspire to Americas founding vision of justice, freedom, compassion and equality for all. This is what America represents to American Muslims and the Muslim world! However, since 9/11 American Muslims have found themselves more and more besieged by anti-Islamic sentiment. So much so that by December, 2009 Muslim frustration had driven the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) to plead with President Obama to address the alarming level of Anti-Islam hate.

In his book Dr. Akbar Ahmed shares some of the frustrating and at times, terrifying experiences American Muslims from all walks of life have experienced since 9/11. Every cultural sub-set is represented, too; from Arab Americans to Pakistani Americans, Somalian Americans, Iranian Americans, Shia, Sunnis and Salafis, all of whom are experiencing a hostile environment in America. The stories range from desecration of Mosques, to taunts from strangers of terrorist go home and All Muslims are terrorists to the pulling of Hijab garments from the heads of Muslim women, and rampant racial profiling at airports and interrogation by police as terror suspects. The fear is so real that many Muslims are convinced that in the event of another major attack within United States resulting in fatalities, Americans will round them up and send them to internment camps similar to those Japanese-Americans endured during World War Two. Some Muslims interviewed for the book even live in fear of being lynched.

People may argue that this is rite of passage for American Muslims; that they must prove themselves patriots until they are fully integrated into the American society. This is similar to what happened to blacks, Catholics, Jews, Japanese and Italians throughout American history they all had to prove some perceived worthiness to overcome prejudice and be fully integrated into the American identity.

But not everyone is up to that challenge. As we all know, animal behavior (and people are not exempt from this rule of nature) dictates a fight or flight response to threats. American Muslims, faced with the stress of the past ten years are experiencing this now. Those who have decided to fight become disenchanted, home grown terrorists like Army Major Nidal Hasan, the Fort Hood shooter. Or they become isolated and stop even trying to be integrated into American society. Dr. Akbar Ahmed describes these people as literalist and gives in his book the example of Darul-Uloom Al Madania School, a school for Muslim religious leaders. When Dr Akbar Ahmed asked the school staff how its students cope with the outside world, one teacher replied curtly We teach them religion only. Improving relations between Muslims and other Americans is really not our line of work. Dr. Akbar Ahmeds message implores both American Muslims and the American government to work together to solve this problem.

Dr. Akbar Ahmed points out that America is at crossroads. Will it continue down the path it has taken since 9/11 or alter its course? Will it be able to resolve its internal contradictions and tensions? Americans embrace both the principles of Darwin and Jesus, and both heavily influence the countrys course. Darwins notion of survival of the fittest and Jesus teaching of compassion and equality forces Americans to oscillate between two perpetual primary emotions, fear and anger. Americans remain fearful of potential threats to their security and blame Muslims directly or indirectly for much of their anxiety. They are not sure how to proceed with Muslims and the Muslim world, which is why Americans appear to be giving generously with one hand and slapping with the other.

America must show the Muslim world its true heart by demonstrating how it treats American Muslims with justice, respect, commitment and with the vision of its founding fathers. America can regain Muslim Americas trust by resisting the urge to suspend human rights (the U.S. reputation has been tarnished by its treatment of prisoners), compromising the civil liberties of Muslims with laws like the Patriot Act, and by showing that America stands for higher humanist ideals: justice, freedom, civil liberties and basic human rights. With the right messaging Americas leaders and the media can quickly spread this message and stump the cultivation of homegrown terrorists.

As an American Muslim woman, I found Akbars book enlightening and a wonderful explanation of the contradictions in American behavior. I personally have the same contradictions: compassion as well as no tolerance when it comes to being taken advantage of in business and life. Treating every human of every race or religion justly and equally is very important to me.

I have witnessed the American spirit in action; I love Americas optimism the can do attitude, persistence and the ability to think you can change the world. Unfortunately, I mourn our inability to take care of the homeless, the needy, and our inability to solve our educational crisis. And I cringe at our policies toward the Muslim world. We should start anew, and pull all our troops out of Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq and Somalia.

By Amra Tareen
San Francisco : CA : USA | Aug 05, 2010

The burqa is creating a bit a fuss in Australia at the moment, over a women giving evidence in court, at this stage she is refusing to remove her burqa on religious grounds. The defence council is asking her to remove it so the jury can have a better understanding of whether or not she is telling the truth. The judge has said she would make her decision on August 19 as to whether she will have to remove it or not

How does this fit in with your assessment of tolerance

I agree Alfred....How were we supposed to react to 3,000 innocent lives being lost! I have to disagree that "homegrown" terrorist are the biggest threat or fear...I think they are small compared to the foreign threat!

@ sintra

also googled the religious aspects of wearing this garment and found there to be none. Nothing in the qur'an states that a woman must wear this form of dress in public so, it would appear it's by her own choice that she does so.

yes as a muslim woman..all women should wear a veil..not the gown which u can only see the eyes no.. a veil scarf on the head...and thats an explanation why is it obliged or stated ..

The moral role of veil

To understand the reason, we have, at first, to answer the following question: Is it necessary to regulate the relationship between man and women? Or is this relation one of the manifestations of personal freedom that no one has the right to interfere in?

In Western philosophy there is a tendency to give human beings a universal freedom in his relations with the other sex, being a private affair that people have the right to practise without any restrictions.

But Islam, as well as other religions and ideologies, has put certain restrictions on the personal freedom in this field, since unrestrained freedom creates chaos, especially in the domains of linage and family relations. Thus, Islam believes that you have to remain committed to the wellbeing of the society and prepares man psychologically to control his desires, through a set of laws. In this sense, Hijab is one of the regulations that prevent man from living a state of psychological emergency in response to the call of desires. It is a part of the legislative structure that builds moral commitment.

How does Hijab play this role? Hijab creates the psychological atmosphere to resist the calls for deviation, and builds an internal immunity in both men and women. It suggests to the woman that she should present herself as a human being and helps her to do so by veiling her sexual beauties.

It also suggests to the man that he has to consider the woman as a human being only, since he cannot see her body. Thus the Hijab represents to a large extent a means of blocking the roads that lead to deviation.

What does wearing the Hijab involve?

The material Hijab demands that the woman should cover all her body except the face and the hands, and that she should not wear make-up when she goes out. This means that the Hijab has a martial side which involves the covering of the body, and a moral aspect that makes a woman act as a human being in the society, by not being seen in a makeup that draws attention, or by talking in a certain way {If you will be on your guard, then be not soft in (your) speech, lest he in whose heart is a disease yearn;} or by any other means for that matter.

Which is better for a woman to be committed to the material Hijab or the moral one?

The issue is not which is better, since Islam views the Hijab as one integrated unit that has two closely interacting dimensions. On the one hand, it urges women to be committed to the moral Hijab which prevents the woman from deviation, and which is the reason behind ordaining the material Hijab, and on the other hand, it considers the material hijab a kind of protection that protects both man and woman from being affected by the situations that can have negative effect on their morals. This means that leaving the material hijab threatens the moral one, and vice versa. Thus the Hijab is not a personal or individual matter but a social one too, since everything that prevents the individual from deviation, also impacts the society, since the society in the end is the sum of all its individuals and the system of values, principles and regulations that govern their relations.

MORE about REAL Muslims and not fanatics who kill in the name of Islam well : ?

visit : http://english.bayynat.org.lb/WomenFamily/hajI.htm

@ illum.
What would happen if I would
emigrate to a Muslim country and try to voice my needs to be able to
practice my own customs, let say eat pork and drink vine?
I would probably be stoned to death in a day... Or lets say that some crazy Christian or Jew would hijack a plane and fly it into Mecca? I wonder how would the Muslim population react?

am from middle east Lebanon....there are many places for ppl who eat pork and drink vine :) many and many--there aint sucha thing anymore..a Muslim country... few are they... Lebanon abides with countless religions .. maybe Saudi Arabia...or iran...r that only countries to be considered Islamic by heeart

Did i say am muslim :)

nor i said am not.

I was replying to what u googled..and to wear a veil aint stated at a certain age..not all muslim are veiled but those who wear it... should not take it off again..

when they do. b4 they die..

And Marie Antoinette...she is not muslim i guess as well...her name is MARIE ..but il let her say if she is or not

Well, I have been one of the few outsiders reading and not responding but I do think I got the impression you were muslim because in your report you state....

"As an American Muslim woman, I found Akbars book enlightening and a wonderful explanation of the contradictions in American behavior. I personally have the same contradictions: compassion as well as no tolerance when it comes to being taken advantage of in business and life. Treating every human of every race or religion justly and equally is very important to me. "

As for Nor, she can speak her own piece about this. We have had this discussion before that not all Muslim women wear the Burqa.

In defense of what I am not sure but not all "Christians" abide by every rule given to them and neither do any other religion, hence the various religions being created.

Sorry if I stuck my nose in somewhere, Just my opinions.

Dixiedaisy
if u payed attention too u would have seen that
it is not my report :)

Americas Schizophrenic Muslim Policy - Journey into America: The Challenge of Islam

book by : Akbar Ahmed

about the book :a report :

By Amra Tareen
San Francisco : CA : USA | Aug 05, 2010

My apologies, I didn't pay attention.............

:) no problem

i aint with or against this report.

i only found it debate-able and thought to bring it here for the members attentions for some opinions 2 b shared about.

I thought it was a report that you had done on the book and therefore stated that you were Muslim as well.

No worries..

I still stand by my statement that regardless of your "religion" there are some people that do not adhere to all there "customs" or "laws" that are given.

Such as, in the bible it states that your body is a temple and to do any harm to it would be against what God has said, yet we do continue to smoke, drink, and do other things that would be harmful to our bodies yet still call ourselves Christians. Eh...
Blah blah blah

I agree with you that it is definitely a debatable report.

Yes and i agreee 100 % with what u said here

there are some people that do not adhere to all there "customs" or "laws" that are given.

true

A young muslim girl has to start wearing the veil from the moment she has had her first period. I learned this from muslim friends living in my country. It is so that in Turkey nowadays women are forbidden to wear it and this causes rather silly sitations ( in our eyes) because we get to see young women hiding a veil under a wig(!) to be able to still wear the veil when they go to uni in Turkey..I am not sure how the situation is in other middle east countries regarding this subject.

To me the thing about customs and such is simple..I see a country as a home..when you enter someone else's home, you abide by the rules of the house, stated by the rightful owners. It is a sign of respect. If you want to live in a foreigh county, then I feel you should be willing to integrate.

This is a very hot topic in my country and has been for some time now. All foreigners that want to stay have to learn our language and do a sort of exam that shows they know our laws and customs, this in no way means we do not respect them..we assume that anyone wanting to live in our "home"is willing to become an active participant.

Ingrid hands up.... ur adorable :)

Ha ha, so are you, Nana:)

Britt, indeed a person should feel respected and safe it his own home. things like 9/11 and other big attacks make this hard, very hard. Also having to accept strange languages as a part of daily life via labels and such must be new to you. In Holland, being a small country, we are used to labels having sometimes up to ten languages! For sure it contains Dutch, English, German and French. I speak all those languages fluently, as do many of my countrymen. They teach it to us at school. Ever since the Schengen agreement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Agreement)
we are a union of 25 countries, and we can move about in all of those countries without anyone standing at the borders ( this only goes for Schengen- residents). This to us is easy to some degree, due to the borders being open, but also hard, for many poor eastern Europeans have come to our country and steal our work. (We can live in any Schengen country we chose to). They are not planning on staying and therefore they don't have to do the exam. They also do not spend the money they earn here, but send it home. This deepens the recession we are in..and this one is deeper than the one we had in the third decade of the previous millenium. We all have our problems..ours are just different than yours. We have 80 nationalities living here by the way...just imagine if every one of those groups demanded rules would be bent to their favor or to meet their individual customs!

The thing is..

"Muslim women must remove there burqa's in an Islamic court..."

interesting...

You get both sides of politics, Donalds is one and the people who voted Obama in the other.

Obama doesnt care that for 60 years the usa has been sticking its neck out to protect Palestinians Arabs and Muslim populations. Where ever decent Muslims are threatened with oppression America is on the side of the good in Islam.

^i like your rose coloured glasses...sadly i think thats "slightly" off key..

I have to say I find the book, from the little I've read about it, distasteful. I don't like books or policies who make a whole side a victim and the other the bad guy. not to mention I dislike such terminologies as American Muslims, Egyptian Jews, Indian whatsoever. religion or the lack of it is a personal belief between you, yourself and god. now nationality is whole other thing.

I don't believe you can hate something you don't truly know as well. not to mention hate a whole religion. not possible, once you get to know all about it you may not understand the reason behind a certain point or disagree with a part. but hate it. all. and it's followers. i don't think so. actually all religions are mostly one once you get to read them. very close.

I believe Islam was presented in a wrong way to the west. and it's mostly our fault. most muslims, including me, are guilty of adding their own interpretation, excuses and reasons to their religion. not to mention misinterpretation. which was later used against us. what is not known, is that Islam was there before even America was, and there wasn't any problem, so it's really strange to find someone believing that we are...whatever it is said biased on religion. why wait until now.

Nicko, by burqa you mean niqab? actually no, as said above, there is nothing that say you must wear it. or even should. we have a huge problem concerning the same issue here. because hijab/veil should show one's face, and the clothes should show hands and feet. that's the normal dress code. and there is no color stated or forbidden, which is rather interesting to know why they choose black or mostly dark colors. so yes, it's there own choice to wearing such, and some say they should be ''free'' to wear it but then problem is that you don't know who's underneath. be it a man or a woman. I stated before somewhere else i'd never enter a bathroom with a person wearing such inside. I find it strange the need to cover one's face, to hide one's identity. creepy. I myself was guilty of watching one of them in a restaurant so keenly just to see how in the world would she'd manage drink, let alone eat, wearing such black tent. torturous.

'' What would happen if I would emigrate to a Muslim country and try to voice my needs to be able to practice my own customs, let say eat pork and drink vine?''

actually nothing, we have Christians here, Alfred, it's rather normal. they eat pork and drink wine. we have Jews and we even have both people who don't believe there is a god to start with and Muslims who do such. reasoning that unless you get drunk, there is no problem in drinking. there are no sanctions as well in doing such.

and actually there are no penalties whatsoever in something that causes one's self only harm. it's up to you. but when such harm includes another then you find penalties. so there is no jailing, stoning or being eaten alive for you if you drink or eat pork. :P

''that most middle eastern countries racially profile. This is coming from friends who have migrated over here for school and work who have told me that if I went to their country, I would be pulled aside, asked who I am, what I'm doing, where I'm going, why I'm doing this, what my intentions are, how long I will be here, do I know anyone etc. To me, thats perfectly acceptable.''

which country do they come from Britt? and actually you as an American do not even need a visa to enter most eastern countries. expect 2 or 3 countries. however talking about visa, before anyone gets one to enter america they do a background check and more like a whole investigation, questioning and all. so no need to stop them again I guess.

''How were we supposed to react to 3,000 innocent lives being lost!''

let me think, kill more than 10x that number of innocent lives. tell me then, Deana, how are WE supposed to react to that?

'' I have to disagree that "homegrown" terrorist are the biggest threat or fear...I think they are small compared to the foreign threat!''

I wish I could invite you all here to see such foreign threat. I really wish I could. you'd probably breakdown and cry.

''this leaves me slightly confused because your original avatar and some by Marie Antoinette show both of you without a veil and wearing makeup. ''

Norgihan, My name is Norgihan, I just go by Nor on here. and yes, I am Muslim, and not veiled. imagine? :) actually there are HUGE numbers of Muslim women that are not veiled. we should, to be honest, be ashamed of such. as Ingrid said, once you have your first period, you should behave yourself as young lady and follow a certain decent dress code.

however makeup and perfume is not at all forbidden as some seem to think. that's totally untrue.

the reason I'm not veiled, you can call it an excuse, and I only speak of myself so no stereotyping anyone, it is that I'm not yet fit for such a step, once I'm veiled i won't be judged here, lets say on the street or in college, as Nor or that girl, i'd be judged as that MUSLIM girl. representing how we act not I act. i'm not yet fit for such and can't take such responsibility. not to mention that I believe you should be veiled from inside before you are on the outside. which I am not. long way to go. I do however think that once I'm married or about to marry i'd behave myself and the person I'm with and get veiled.

Kay :) you can join in whenever you like, I love hearing from you. and yes no one sticks to any rules. shame. shame. shame. I really do hope hell isn't big enough for us all. *laughs* I think I have two villas there and a place so far...

and actually what most don't know and it seems to confuse some is that most eastern countries do not function on religion, but on their own customs and traditions which go to way back. when such is broad casted to western countries they are mistaken as religion and cause various problems.

niqab or burqa as it seems it's called outside was one of those customs worn in some period of time. as I know.

Ingrid, you can chose to wear a veil here or don't. it's no problem. some people are rather closed minded and think veiled women are better than non veiled. but then with the way they dress now, you find non veiled dressing more decent and modest then veiled with all those covering but sprayed on clothes. so it's controversial. I do think veiled women are more elegant though.

I'll be back to continue..

Norgihan,

The muslim women in my country often wear a veil, but also use make up and lots of jewellery and that to me is so contradictory..I know the veil is used to prevent the men from being distracted by a woman's beauty and I sometimes wonder if the women really know why a veil is used, the deeper meaning. But on another note: how many Christians know what Christmas really is about, or Easter for that matter?

Egypt is modern, like Turkey, so I am not surprised women have a free choice. It is nice to have a choice, even if no person were to make use of it, don't you think? I think you all look like Eastern princesses, with or without the veil:)

Ingrid I do understand so much your home theory. theoretically. problem is that those people have children those children's homes are the country which the parents immigrated to. however their customs and tradition would be of their parents mostly. however when it comes to religion you can not just say that immigrates are only those with a certain faith and others aren't. I think we need to accept differences and others more and learn to live TOGETHER!

not to mention that they won't be visiting others homes for sometime and leaving. but rather living with them.

Sintra, the website looks creepy. and so do the people. and the whole story to be honest. yes, I'd like someone living there to clarify. I would not believe everything I read online especially on such websites. but the videos?

weird. and rather worrisome.

'' for 60 years the usa has been sticking its neck out to protect Palestinians Arabs and Muslim populations. Where ever decent Muslims are threatened with oppression America is on the side of the good in Islam.''

ha ha ha, seriously? ROFL ='D no comment.

nicko it's no rose colored mirror, actually it seems rather like a steel wall.

Ingrid, I agree, however I don't see a problem in a little make up. not something much catchy, but then I've never a fan of makeup to start with. still, I see no problem in something light. the veil and clothes are a form of toning down the woman's beauty. and not making them much of a display. but there is no problem in looking good even so. or pretty. however as I said they should be veiled from inside as well. i mean such be the reflection of what's inside, there is no point in dressing like that and acting like.. well.. you get the idea.

and thanks Ingrid. you are a princess yourself.

I'm sure other people have read it but have no idea like us.

Norgihan :) * hugs*

Young second generation people from foreign parents have a really hard time in Holland. they feel they no longer are say, Morrocan, but they are not truly accepted as equal by their peers either whose parents are Dutch..so they feel they have no real identity. This causes big problems, young gangs of second generation immigrants that misbehave and all in the eye of the camera, if you know what I mean. They get blamed, while the repsonsibility lies with the government. They first allowed the situation to completely get out of hand by not setting any rules apart form the immigration rules and now they are running after the facts, trying to clean up the mess made in the past decades. To have people obey to the rules of "the house"one first needs to know what those rules are, and they are being changed so often we lost track.

Sintra, the website you gave a link to is a blog. Anyone can make those, even a minor. I can see from the content ( that I did read) that it is rather * cough* one- sided and made to polarize the groups involved. We are no better than the people portrayed there..... we kill, we rape, we torture, we set fire to houses, hell, even whole villages occupied by defenseless citizens, we bomb schools and hospitals by accident and then get aways whith an "oops, sorry"..nah....we are no better, we are are all capable of ( extreme) violance..each and every one of us, be it directly or indirectly by condoning it. To stand by and not intervene in a way is just as bad as committing a crime yourself.

It is hard to be objective when you live in an ivory tower :p

I guess I confused you, sorry, my bad. A veil is different than a niqab. or a burqa as it seems to be called. a veil does not hide ones face at all. just hair. like the pictures I posted. a niqab is something like wearing a tent but with a thin opening for ones eyes only.

they can swear on a koran/qu'ran i guess? no idea. however there won't be any problem in swearing upon a bible either, because, as i said before, we believe in Christianity as well. so it's just as holy.

Donald
The Hungarian refugee crisis of 1956 of which approx 200,000 people left Hungary. The first country to go to Hungary's aid was Austria, announcing it would grant every refugee political asylum. 200,000 was way more than Austria could handle. So it was mainly through the politics of guilt that America and other counties of the west, France, England etc, were forced to take refugees. Its interesting to note that the USA at first would only agree to take in 6500 Hungarians, but the US had little choice but to increase the number of refugees it would accept.

Also note that it was Canada that was willing to accept an unlimited number of refugees, Toronto is said to be the third largest Hungarian city in the world..?

Yes the whole story is sad....

You're more than welcome, anytime.

covering your hair is a must and so is wearing unrevealing clothes. decent in other words, but not overly large or only black. nothing says such. kinda depressing if you ask me what they do to themselves. but if they are happy, who am i to complain. problem is you rarely find medium, either they wear sprayed on clothes with a head scarf. or they wear acres of cloth. It is said and well known that if one is confused between two things in religion to choose the easiest. it has to be vague though and not clear. why some people complicated everything, that's beyond me.

but then again Saudis function on ancient tradition under the name of religion. what you just mentioned is ugly, i would've given them a piece of my mind. they come here and cause the same chaos.

and it's good you mentioned the word ''waste'' because religion wise, it's not allowed overly using anything be it water, food, materials, cloth.

I am not a fan of saudi people, to be honest or rather the ''some'' of them i've met. most things they do, they do it a sort of tradition not religion. actually anywhere else no eastern man would sit in a public place while their wives go get food from the buffet, you'd find it the other way round. which makes me wonder are you sure they were their wives though and not servants?

yes, I do understand. it would've left a bad taste in mine as well. it's such people that ruin our reputation as Arabs actually. and of course our religion. especially with the men being womanizers and worse. just horrible.

I think what we need to remove is the stereotype that Islam is a hemogenous religion, when actually it has its own denominations....

As for america's islamophobia and apparent fear and seperation between religion and "being american"...I don't understand it. But its human nature to fear something that is unknown to you or have no emphathy for...

Fear is a very nice word . Americans that are not able to separate the radical muslims from the peaceful ones seem the hate them more than fear them. If americans feared terrorist would they want to PO them or liberate the ones oppressed by them?

God forbid using WMD'S

Very true, but when someone is covered from head to toe and you can't even see their eyes it is very confronting and yes...it does instill fear in me and that has nothing to do with their religious beliefs..it's intimidating and that's the truth.We have already established earlier on that there is nothing in the Koran to say this form of dress is necessary."

Interpretation is key... The whole reason women wear niqab, hijab, abaayas, burkas is to show their modesty and hide their beauty... Plus, its also for prayer...In the Quran, its said to avert your gaze and dress modestly... Every society adheres according to it according to the preferances... In Iran 9 year old girls must wear it, while in Britian its ultimately your choice on wher to draw the line on how modestly you wish to appear...

No matter how you want to cut it, niqab, hijab, abaayas, burqas or whatever other names you want to call them, were designed by muslin men to hide their women. Its oppression plain and simple, and has no place in modern society.

^Plus, its also for prayer...In the Quran, its said to avert your gaze and dress modestly.. Noir does that only apply to woman as i don't see to many men wearing them..??

I have also travelled through Iran and not all women wear them and not many 9 year old girls that i saw, although in some places in Iran if woman don't wear them theres a chance she will have boiling water thrown in your face..

If thats not oppression what is..?

No matter how you want to cut it, niqab, hijab, abaayas, burqas or whatever other names you want to call them, were designed by muslin men to hide their women. Its oppression plain and simple, and has no place in modern society."

If that is how you feel, then I guess Orthodox jewish women and Amish women feel oppressed, because they don't show enough skin...Lol. Who are you to decide what is modern society...If these women were clearly oppressed...Then they wouldn't wear burkas,niqabs, abaayas, hijabs when they are in western soil.

^Plus, its also for prayer...In the Quran, its said to avert your gaze and dress modestly.. Noir does that only apply to woman as i don't see to many men wearing them..??"

Men also dress modestly...Although they do wear topis as a form of piety...

I have also travelled through Iran and not all women wear them and not many 9 year old girls that i saw, although in some places in Iran if woman don't wear them theres a chance she will have boiling water thrown in your face.."

Again, that comes under the heading of ignorance and fast-paced interpretation...You can take any text to justify your own agenda...You should always read the whole surah, to better understand why ayat says what it clearly says.

If thats not oppression what is..?"

Oppression comes under many forms, however, you should not blame the ideaology, rather the people who misuse it.

Yes, he indeed has a point there:)

Firstly I mean no disrespect to any religion be it Christian, Muslim, Jewish..whatever...What I do object to is religion twisting the true intent..we have seen it in all religions we see it happen today

In fact the fundamentalists extorting millions out of their followers are currently in the news here.

And yes I should not have used the term modern society; I should have said any society! And yes it may be applied to Orthodox Jewish women and Amish women but this thread is about America's intolerance to Muslims is it not?

^Oppression comes under many forms, however, you should not blame the ideology, rather the people who misuse it.

Which is exactly my point! This hideous practice of forcing Women to wear head gear that covers her face from an early age is wrong, and religion has been used as a tool by men to enforce it.

"it's just something I cannot wrap my head around."

Britt = Official Punmaster Extraordinaire

.What I do object to is religion twisting the true intent..we have seen it in all religions we see it happen today In fact the fundamentalists extorting millions out of their followers are currently in the news here."

So its religion's fault that people can be mislead, charismatic people and con men can flatter any person by targeting that which influences them... Lets also remember that fundamentalism is a political concept, which uses religion not to be close to God rather using it to further their own ideals... Every denomination has them...

his hideous practice of forcing Women to wear head gear that covers her face from an early age is wrong, and religion has been used as a tool by men to enforce it."

Is that what you think? Let me tell you that Islam was one of the first to see women as equals rather than property and sexual objects... Lets face it, Islam recognises that half of women's beauty is in their hair and that still hasn't changed...Not only does it protect them but also gives them a voice

^^

Don't know how far you had to tilt your head, but in my country the law was changed on personal identification a few years ago. We have to have pictures for our passport, ID card and driver's licence taken in a certain way, exposing our ears and all of our face and part of our neck. We are forbidden to wear any kind of cloth or cap on our head ( even if it is a muslim woman, she has to take it off for the picture) and we have to wear our ID with us all the time and are obligated to identify ourselves every time a police officer askes us to do so...yup..9/11 changed a lot..even in a country as far removed from the US as ours.

Very soon we also have to use our fingerprint and hold our eye in front of a camera for several identification procedures, such as withdrawing money from a machine etc.