Robots will one day rule..or not???

Http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YruAOxWG5uU

^^
My son pointed out this video to me and it's kinda hilarious, but at the rate things are going, it won't be long until we have perfect imitations of humans walking among us ( maybe even without us knowing they are artificial). I am just wondering: where does that leave us? What will be done with those who become old ad needy, when a machine can replace you that only needs some maintenance every now and then?

What's your view?

I AGREE lol...i think robots are already taken a gd place over .. house maids lol

just cant b house wives :P

Rofl, no housewives will become extinct one day soon, ha ha. I don't mind if robots take over tasks that are dull, boring, dangerous or difficult for humans (like with certain surgical procedures) But I have seen robots made by Japanese scientists that look so very much like humans it scares me..and the thing they were discussing on that documentary was to send their customised robot to do their work once they were too old/ sick whatever to do it themselves..that is only a short step away from allowing robots to take over completely.

To have a big company means having hight costs, also when times are rough. I don't know how things are taken care of in the USA, but in my country I have to pay an employee for two years after he has become ill, that is why I only hire colleague-entrepreneurs for my painting company and answer the phone myself for my practice (weight consultant). I can understand small businesses doing well, a lot of people that got fired over here started one and are doing well.

As to the robots..it scares me Bob, because a lot of people are actually more comfortable being around machines than around humans. Did you ever hear of those expensive dolls, that look exactly like a woman, custom made and bought by rich men to sit with them at dinner and sleep with(!) ,they also take them with them when they go for a drive. They were around 30,000 dollar I believe. They don't talk back, never age or get ill. Sort of like a Tamagotchi for grown ups...a truly depressing development:(

I have two links to share, one about the newest development in humanoid female robots ( the article about sexy Roxy):

http://gadgetsbuzz.com/articlelist.asp?vt=SubCategory&SCID=171&Robots

And one about robots being able to operate on humans by themselves in the near future:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1296479/Robot-surgeons-used-carry-operations-patients-human-assistance.html

The latter scares me most...what if something goes wrong and it suddenly starts to randomly cut you open?

I don't know, Britt..I have a new car and it has a robot that shifts gear for me ( tiptronic system) and even that is somehow strange to me! The old automatic transmission system was fine by me..

Now I'm thinking of that Bjork music video with the robots in love....

Sibyllene's predictions for the future: A melding of manipulated biology and technology (if not pure robotics)

1. Pacemakers, hip replacements, hearing aids, fake legs... humans are already biological beings with "bionic" implements. We obviously still consider a person with a pacemaker or a feeding tube or an artificial arm human. I'm wondering how far that can be pushed. If you are a conscious floating head, are you still human? Is it the mind, or consciousness, that determines our humanity?
That brings us to...

2. A new, technological phase in consciousness. One of the defining characteristics of humanity seems to be our ability for abstract thought. We can consider scenarios and outcomes that exist apart from instinctual responses to the physical world. We can plan for the future. We can daydream about our lovers while sitting at work. We can spend hours working through complex physics problems, without ever having seen an atom, electron, or quark. I see this abstract ability being pushed to its extreme, by things like computers and the internet. Our thoughts and interactions are no longer confined to our physical bodies. They roam -out there- somewhere, in the Ghostly Ether of the Internet. We have passions and furies and curiosities quenched by the wonder of the web - we can even fall in love online! I wonder about the eventual effects of this strange stretching of our conscious realms. What are the repercussions? Will the infinity of the internet (and its evolutionary descendants) create the possibility for an eternal consciousness? Writing and books have kind of done this to some degree - the words remain while the author turns to dust. I wonder whether the nature of the internet could be another stage in that process.

3. So, instead of seeing robots ruling, I think I see humans and robots blending into almost indistinguishable beings. I see robots becoming more like humans. I see biological matter surpassing the dominance of non-living materials in technology. I see more of our lives being lived in a world that inhabits the thickness of a computer chip.

That, or the apocalypse.

Well, I think the part of our body that defines us as being human, is our head, because it is the part that enables us to be conscious of our surroundings and partake in daily life actively and in our own unique way.

I also feel that society, as a whole, is in a downward spiral because of all the new technology that has come to our "aid". Just look around you..do you still see children playing outside? How many are playing games on their computers, chat to virtual friends that could be anybody( even an old, perverted creep passing himself of as a teen). Over 50 % of our modern day children are obese or at least overweight and also becoming socially dysfunctional because of the fact that even as a baby, they are left alone in their chair in front of the TV (cheapest nanny).

In my country the banks are closing offices and forcing people to draw cash outside from a machine and I can assure you, this is dangerous when you live in a big city...and it means less interaction with other people, every time they trade an employee for a machine/ robot.[ this to me is real poverty]

Sure, there are plenty of advantages to the way our society has come to rely on modern technology and robotics, but do they outweigh what we have lost?

Seems to be we are steering to wards an Apocalypse already and Mother Nature is doing her best to help speed up the process.

Robots are the next evolutionary step...and we are part way there...

There is a crucial difference between evolution before the introduction of modern technology and the today's society, Nicko. The evolution as it took place used to be a process involving creatures created by God. Machines are created by man and therefore inferior, no matter how advanced they are. I feel that we are rapidly deteriorating both physically and mentally because of the way we are relying on machines to do the work ( in both respects) for us. In my country a complete generation is relying on calculators and computers to do the work for them and playing is no longer playing outside with friends, but sitting in front of a screen. We are digging our own grave, without knowing it, paving way for creatures that are not truly alive and an inhumane society in the true sense of the word.

Sintra, I did not actually see it, but know it was about a woman who moved to a town with perfect housewives that turned out to be robots? I think I will rent it a the video store soon, it could be fun. I did once watch a film called "" The Truman show" and that was really a remarkable movie that I cannot forget. It is about a man who one day becomes aware of the fact that he is the leading character in a reality soap, kinda like Big Brother, only thing is: they never asked his permission and the town he lives in turns out to be a film set. Made me think about how much of this world we live in is somehow fake, 90% of what we experience in the virtual world is, in my humble opinion ;0)

Yes, you are right: it is easy to do your banking and buying on line and even things like reserve a seat at the movie theater, the possibilities are endless..but we do pay a price, because one day the process will be irreversible and with each step further into a robotic world we drift further away from being in close contact with other human beings as often as we once used to. The real danger lies in becoming alienated from each other.

I had a friend that used to let me play with her computer though I never down laoded. The robot in the link was a testiment to intellegent design though it failed one test while adapting to its environment. The essence of man is not lost when man creates a machine in his own image and likeness. Robots can be used in hostile environments man calls war. I only saw a bubble where the face on the robot would be. The face of man is believed by naturalist to have evolved to express emotion though spiritualist see the face as the window of the soul. Naturally a michine created in the image and likeness of man would desire to possess beauty and take over the world.
The first implantation of an artificial heart in a human being ocurrred in 1969. My nephew is on a medication that retards his pulse rate though his passion for life has not completely diminished in a chemically induced heartfailure. If machines could express love would we call it making love not war?

I agree on robots being used to do dangerous work, Michael. Flying over hostile territory with small robot-steered planes and robots that disarm bombs and mines are truly a gift from heaven ( although an end to all wars would be preferable)

If only they could make robots that do the work of miners..then those 33 men would not be imprisoned in that collapsed mine in Chili until Christmas..For those who want to read about them:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-11117940

Either that or close down all mines, far too many accidents happen to this day:(

And yes, they have made huge progress in medical science, I agree!

Heart of Gold by Neil Young
--------
I want to live,
I want to give
I've been a miner for a heart of gold.
It's these expressions I never give
That keep me searching for a heart of gold
And I'm getting old.
Keeps me searching for a heart of gold
And I'm getting old.

Robots rule and robots rock
It was Robots that caped a well that killed many humans as well as marine life.

"And yes, they have made huge progress in medical science, I agree!"

Artificial intelegence and artificial hearts. Where is the pill that cures greed?

Many will argue that it was machines that created global warming. The same computers that many times predect the path of dangerous storms created the so called myth of global climate change that seems to be a real threat to many. Thechnology is a blessing that could overcome many imbalances. Does anyone else wonder if there is a sacred line that should not be crossed when we pursue or attempt to escape the unnnatural?

They will rule the world when we die unless someone gets the idea to make us hakf robtoic or something I read it in a book this girl woke up from a coma looked completely human but she was a robot that had some memories of the person she used to be because they kept 10 percent of her brain

Ingrid with all respect can evolution and god in the same breath? but that conversation is for a different thread.

I feel the term modern technology depends in what era you were born ie if you were born in the Stone Age and the wheel had just been invented then I'm sure they would term it as modern technology, if you get my drift. Anyway what I implied by my statement "Robots are the next evolutionary step" is that we as a species are becoming more obsolete more replaceable ie bionic ears replacement joints gene cell research etc etc we have computers that are getting faster and faster able to perform more and more complex operations, we rely on them in our hospitals in our schools at home at work in our cars. In fact they are currently developing a car that doesn't have a steering wheel; you just hop in and tell it where to go.

We as a species want to live longer healthier, we want to be fit without disease, we are almost driven to be immortal, after all thats why religion was invented, this is just an extension. Therefore I feel its just a logical progression. Maybe a melding of the two, man and machine?

I mean how long is it before a computer gains consciousness? It will happen, its only a matter of time...do we then determine that it has life, the son of man???? Now there's a question for you all..!!!

I agree

'Natural' selection has led to more and more humans adopting technology in their everyday lives whether they like it or not. If you don't know how to work a computer or mobile phone, you are out of date and out of the loop. We remind me of the primitive bacteria that excreted oxygen, something that was ironically toxic to them. Unable to keep up in the atmosphere they had helped to create, they almost gassed themselves out of existence. Only the ones with enzymes to make use of this new molecule survived.
As a result, here we are now.

Evolution for us has slowed down. And we are getting weaker. Evolution for computers have sped up and they're getting stronger.

Makes sense that Homo robotus emerges.

For all I know, no one around me is "actually" conscious. Therefore, consciousness is merely indicated by behaviour. If we made robots in our image like the fanciful gods we are, I think we would treat them as human. We are sympathetic in our vanity. (We ourselves are extravagant machines...with a romantic touch of divinity.)

Ingrid with all respect can evolution and god in the same breath? but that conversation is for a different thread.

^^
Maybe I should have mentioned I am a follower and firm believer of Intelligent Design. I don't believe in evolution as such, nor do I worship God in the way some other Christians do..I just know in my heart we have a Creator, a Creator who made all living creatures and there lies the difference between us and robots. Something that is made out of parts we fabricated will never be alive, it is not born from a living creature, it is dead material, no matter how real it looks.I have a link to some info about that subject, for those who would like to read about it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_design

Ingrid i'm aware of the concept of intelligent design developed by some American creationist, a sort of pseudoscience as a way to undermine the theory of evolution, which fortunately never made its way into the school classroom. There have been threads on this before.

Actually most modern science evolved from pseudoscience
The concept of creator gods or a Creator God is as old as recorded history
Most of the old school privately schooled catholics have had at least some naturalist proffesors attempt to reprogram us to believe reason is above faith. I must admit their success to a certain degree

Was Charles Darwin a Christian?
In: Charles Darwin

Answer
Although Darwin originally trained in theology and had studied the work of William Paley, he at some point rejected the Christian faith, if in fact, he ever had it. Some have attributed this to bitterness after the early death of his young daughter Annie, although there were undoubtedly other factors. It has even been suggested that Darwin wrote 'The Origin..' as a specific rebuttal of Paley's work. The idea which has circulated that Darwin 'repented on his death bed' apparently has no basis in fact.

So, to put it briefly, Darwin was not a Christian

I believe when Darwin developed the theory of natural selection he had a kind of faith that he could prove it. Anyone that has the the desire to build a machine by copying thier own design is in effect praising that design are they not?

@Nicko: I have never been an active poster on these threads, so I would like to have a link to such a thread, if you can provide me with one. The fact that it has not been accepted yet, does not make it less plausible. So many scientist have been ridiculed until their theory became public knowledge.

You are right Michael, when you copy a design, you in fact praise it. Darwin's theory undermines the foundations of Christianity, so he could not have been one, lol.

Hi Ingrid I have no problem with this at all, but this is not a science just Christianity under another name and a way to combat the theory of evolution.

As to finding a link to one of those threads.. needle in a haystack i'm afraid, they are there you will just have to find them somewhere..

I don't agree, Nicko, but I think we'd better not go on about that here. I don't have time to search all the threads, I am a rather busy person, lol.

Robots ruling? as in ruling the world and people? ok. maybe I lack the needed imagination but I don't find that possible. simply because robots don't have desires, ambition or motives. they are not humans, they do not seek power, money or/and self development. so without a human behind them using them for him/her self to gain such it's not possible. according to me anyway.

to me robots are just tools we use be it to save time or effort or whatsoever, true we're becoming a bit too much dependent. but still they are machines doing what they are programed and systemed to do. no mind, no creativity and no feelings. they just follow whatever orders given to them according to what's installed.

as to people having company and sleeping with dolls/robots. that's just sick. they seriously need doctors. and fast.

now to operation robots. the only ones I know/read of are supposed to have lesser people (nurses/doctors) in the operation room, like 4 instead of 12. and they do require human assistance. however I do and can imagine how scary any new thing is to some people and almost threatening, still it's technology and I think it won't be used unless experimented very well and all such concerns settled. I actually believe it would even be more accurate than humans, no scary stories about forgotten towels inside the patient. *laughs*

about us losing jobs to robots, I have no problem in leaving boring and routine-ish (if there is such word) jobs to robots and having humans work on things more creative and needed. like let them robots do the surgeries with one surgeon's and a nurse's assistance for those scared of them machines but not having more than 3 people there. the others may research, discover remedies to other diseases, different and more effective ways to operate.. etc. i see it can be a plus if used right. like anything else.

P.S. i'm out of religious debates and evolution theories for a change. enough's enough for me. *waves white flag*

I ain't scared o' no stinkin' robots. Bring 'em on!

Err, I read nothing in this thread but the initial post so if I'm way off topic - my bad.

@ silvershoes: you've just said what i wanted to say but in much lesser words...

I actually believe it would even be more accurate than humans, no scary stories about forgotten towels inside the patient. *laughs*

^^
Ha ha ha

I ain't scared o' no stinkin' robots. Bring 'em on!

^^
Now this is what I love about a board that has members of all ages, you two young ladies made my day! :)

I guess you are right, Norgihan, in some ways we will be better off with machines that are infallible. What I meant with the robots ruling, is that we are making ourselves redundant in a way, because no real human is perfect( that is what I love most about them by the way!). I have fear of one day waking up in a cold, sterile world. If, a couple of yeas ago someone would have told me I would be drawing money out of a machine I would have laughed my head off..and just see how much has changed this past decade and it is going faster still, just a few steps aways from cars that fly, etc, etc...

Predicting the future of technology is difficult or impossible.

There may not be flying cars for a very very long time, or never. I'd rather have a 2 seater airplane.

As frightening and new as this huge technological evolution is, a lot of good has come from it.

As to robots specifically, how could a machine have a brain? Free will? A soul? A heart? How could a robot love? Hate? Desire power? Want to please?
Those are traits of living organisms. As interactive as your furby may be, as lovable as your roomba is, as much as your car seems to have a face, and as much as you want Toy Story to be real life... there is no way of granting life to an object.

Machines will not take over human life; they are designed to make our lives more efficient. They are tools. Sure there are "bad" machines. Sure we may blow up our precious Earth some day... but that's human action.

I'll accept a lot of things as being possible in the future, but I can't force myself to believe that something so metaphysically off the wall could ever happen.

Also, it is so human to believe that if robots did have free will, they would inevitably want to destroy us. Why? Maybe they would love us. Maybe they would want to help us. Maybe they would want to coexist... or invade another planet?
I don't know. I don't really care.

P.S. I still have only read 2-3 of the posts in this thread :)

It is about the people in powerful positions that have a big say in who does what. Just imagine yourself being an owner of a billion dollar corporation and you have the choice between an army of infallible robots that do the same job as humans, but never get ill, nor expect a pay check... I am not talking about robots taking over * laughs* I am talking about the way the average human could be traded for a perfect copy of him( only in regards to what the one who has to decide needs him for) and where that leaves us..and if you don't believe me, than think about how many banks have closed already ( because of on line banking/ withdrawing money from a machine), how many factories use robots instead of machines.. the list of people being swapped for machines is already endless now.

The values that make us human, might not be of any interest to the one deciding if we are of use or not......

Oh. Yeah, I guess I should've read more posts :)

Okay then, machines are putting a lot of humans out of work. This could mean no more sweat shops. It could also mean that no humans will have to work at some point. We might start living like humans in Wall-E. Everything will be extremely attainable and easy. We'll be even FATTER! And even LAZIER! Ha! Or just lazy since there will probably be a very easy way to stay slim (assuming that's what you'd want).

I'm more scared of nuclear weapons than I am of a robot army. Plus, assuming there will be a robot army, there would likely be more than one. We would be at the mercy of our country's leaders... wait. We already are.

'' What would happen if there was a malfunction within the hardware of these robots? It could ultimately shut a business down if something massive happened. ''

I am sure a lot of people thought so as well when computers were invented and started spreading. thing is, they are not playing, nothing of this would happen if not carefully planned and examined. throughly.

as to losing jobs, again, it won't happen. simply because such new technologies create a million more new job opportunities and industries than what they take over.

like look at any technology we have now, computers for example. you have people working in fields of software, hardware, internet including security and engines and websites and much more. not to mention it's maintenance and people working to develop such. another example, look at cameras, some did claim and feared that it would take over artists jobs.

I don't think it's true, but more of that such is spread by people who would like everything to stay as is. for them, it's safer. but then if some people won't do it other would and in such they lose a lot. because truth is, or rather the way i see it, who knows right or wrong, is that the countries that would use such technology, be it robots or what else would flourish, economically. because you'd produce more in lesser time and with lesser effort and with better quality. hence, you can export such and that's money coming into the country, to be invested and reinvested.

not to mention there are jobs that would never be able to be done by a robot. like journalism and reporting, like leading in all it's forms, like being a judge, a designer, an inventor... etc. what robots would take over are normally as I said before either routine filled jobs that need no creativeness or are so tiring and time consuming with no matching profit.

Ingrid from example mentioned money machines. I am not sure about Holland, Ingrid, but here you can go to a bank and deal with people instead of machines, if that's what you want, so it's your choice. however most people use machines, because you really would not want to go and stand in a row and wait for your turn and the poor bored person to give you his attention and see what you want and count the money and check your ID and/or whatever procedurals. too much time and effort for nothing. both ways.

"if I did invoicing for a company and that job could be taken over by a robot...then what happens?"

Errr... you learn?

well what I think is not all places would afford such, just huge companies and such. plus robots would not take over ALL jobs be it needing a college degree or not. I mean in case of surgeries, for example, that's a job needing a college degree. so you can't just say it's taking over one kind of job. not to mention it won't happen in a day, it would be in steps. and as said, all would be planned. and no job will be conquered by robots alone. just like the camera example. those who want to work in a field will work in it no matter what. thing is the number of such jobs would decrease. though it won't happen all in a night, but step by step, and people's interest would shift gradually with what's more available.. it's normal. interests would change. until you won't have the same demand on a certain job.

in worse cases, i'm sure there will be rules governing such. they won't throw you in the streets, you know. well, lets hope not anyway. those who went through pains inventing such would at least make sure everything would be organized or such would not go on. be that by rules that employers are to train their employees on other things or that employees are not to be ''forced'' to leave their job without consent or another option. or any other means.

They can't replace you or throw you out for no reason without compensating you. at least here in Egypt they can't, no idea about your laws where you live.

Thanks, Britt, for explaining. so it's still safe provided you have a contract. right?

what if there is no contract but it's proved by witness that that person used to work for that company/employer and take wages and all.. still no rights?

"The fact that it has not been accepted yet, does not make it less plausible. So many scientist have been ridiculed until their theory became public knowledge."

This is very true, but here you seem to be implying that Intelligent Design is a science. This cannot be, simply because science is based on observable, measurable, testable evidence which gives a predictable outcome. If you believe in this theory because the origin of species appears to be unverifiable, you are then believing in something else which is also unverifiable. This is fair enough (many scientists, like me, become quite spiritual through their study of the universe), but it is still not "science" at all.

Most of the comments in this thread are underestimating the power of computers and bioengineering. Computers are doubling their speed and storage capacity every year. The fact is, there is no conceivable upper limit to what we can make them do, and what they can then do. Many scientists and engineers acknowledge that we ourselves are extraordinarily complex robots, and our free will, if we get down to the nitty gritty, is simply an illusion. There are thousands of algorithms to make machines understand, respond, interact and associate objects just like we do, and then much better. Yes, even emotional input can determine their motor output.

And this is just robots. If we want to get into how we are no longer the passive observers of the dance of nature but the choreographers, lets's talk about genomic and proteomic engineering. We can make thousands of human clones (much easier and cheaper than constructing robots) with strong muscles, perfectly healthy genomes, and can make them look suitable for their purposes- astronauts, spies, terrorists, factory workers, our own children. There is even a newly-discovered "immortality" gene that might stop aging. Give them a touch of artificial intelligence, and you have yourself some superhumans. This is not "dead material", it is alive, even when it is a hybrid with a computer. It is human, and fabricated by humans, for humans.

We are unique because we are the only species that wants to purposefully and continually change itself, to extend and even transcend our own biology with our knowledge. Whether we are capable of designing such beings in the near future, and whether they can be human or humanlike, is not even up for contention. It is about whether we ALLOW it or not, and if we do, how we handle it morally.

Abracadabra, thing is computers can't think. and you can't make them think, for that you need them to have some sort of awareness. which I do not see possible. computers are not even intelligent, it's the person who made them that is. he figured a way to connect whatever orders we want to give it to what he's installed on it.. even those who interact it's because what's saved and installed on them. not on their own. they are programed by very smart people to work that way. and give such impression.

as to them doubling their speed and storage, again it's not alone, but it's some engineer/engineers that did such. and no matter what we make them do in the end they won't ever for example use any of the info accessible to them against you, unless there is a person behind it.

cloning, as far as I know and I might be wrong, did not work good. but still i believe the purpose of such was at first place to have like ..er.. spare parts? for humans who need a kidney, a heart..etc. but not to create..well.. monsters. now that's scary.

Britt thank you again. that's totally different than our system, but then we have 2 laws after all. for those who work for the government (government institution) administrative law. and those work in private companies and jobs a different private law to protect them ''poor workers'' from being taken advantage of from their employer, so it's all almost privileges for employees. when it comes to administrative law, it's the opposite to protect public interest they say, I often wondered who's to protect us from the government though *looks heavenwards* yours is more like our administrative law.

Abby is 100% right and Illum according to Moore's law Abby is right.

I think most of you need to pull your heads out of the sand and do a bit of research on this..

Abby, you make a lot of interesting points but if we're going to start talking about artificial intelligence and what intelligence means and whether machines will one day have the capacity to think and choose as humans do, and if humans do even have freedom of choice - whatever that term might mean - then this argument gets so overwhelmingly subjective that it's pointless.
I don't disagree with anything you wrote by the way :)
But I see this argument losing ground and flying off into oblivion! Weee!

R2D2 is hot. I'd tap that.

Gee, how wonderful to see so many people voicing their opinion on this subject!

Norgihan, in my country banks are closing offices rapidly. The ones that are still open have a policy, saying you can only withdraw money inside when it is more than 1.500 euros. I see little difference between standing in line before a desk and a machine, other then running the risk of being mugged, beaten to a pulp, have your card being skimmed, or swallowed on Friday afternoon at 6:00 PM ( do you see my point?) Not all progress is truly progress when it leaves the door wide open for abuse. ( and I did not even mention the things that go wrong with on line banking, phishing mails, stolen identities, etc). You must not forget that our society as a whole has to adapt and accept these changes, so also the old, invalid, poor, uneducated and ignorant individuals..they will fall victim to (cyber) criminals, I am very certain of that.

Alfred: in science all theories are accepted until someone proves them wrong. Sometimes people forget that all they are doing is following a theory. If we would not leave open this possibility of being wrong in our assumptions, we would be in fact dictating our vision as being the only truth possible..now we all know what became of the scientist that thought the earth was flat. I have no doubt one day a brave new scientist will prove Darwin wrong without a shadow of a doubt.