Religion is the opium of the people?

This statement, religion being an opium, was made once by Karl Marx. Just suppose for one second he was right, and there is nothing above us, no higher being, force, whatever you want to call it, what would make our life worth living, if it wasn't for Him?

* If you don't know who Karl Marx was, then you should, he is one of the most influencial thinkers in the history of mankind: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Marx

If I could think of anything that has been abused more than opiates it would have to be religion. Though the theological virtues when consumed or accepted as were meant to be are healthier than anything known to man, they must be understood to have any effect

We are nothing without Love

Have faith in Man the species not in God..

There you have it, life is still worth living...

I'm not living this lifetime so I can live another sort of "life" in heaven or so that I can live again in another life-form (reincarnation). I'm living this lifetime because this is what I have, this is what I know, this is what I believe in. Each day is a gift and you don't need to have faith in the metaphysical to understand that.
God is an ungraspable answer to a question that doesn't need asking. I live to live, I don't need a divine purpose to make living bearable.
Appreciate what you have and you won't search for an ultimate goal that makes suffering worth suffering.
I believe in a lot of good things, but God is not one of them.

I agree with Karl Marx. Religion is a painkiller and it makes the hurt of being alive more acceptable. I guess that's a painkiller I don't need.

When you undo the religion, the believing in something outside ourselves, of all man has added, then you also undo it of the things that make it false..this is how I see it. I do feel we have a Creator, but I also see why Marx made that statement. In order to have power, the people have to fear, and what better way to make them afraid then to have them believe an omnipresent being is watching them and will see to it that they get punished if they misbehave. I feel religion is used as a tool to control us, and if you were to see it as it really is, then you would have to acknowledge that we are all equal, and should not allow ourselves to be manipulated or our thoughts and actions to be directed in a certain way to keep this Creator happy..we have free will, it is so for a reason: to live life as we see fit( without abusing rights of our fellow men off course)

So I would not use the term painkiller, but instead a tool to keep us under control, to dominate us better.

In my short life I have been witness to a human nature that has left a lot to be desired
I must admit that what many percieve as religion leaves much to be desired also. Most Christians believe that the religious authority demanded that God be crucified
A very effective painkiller was develop under the control of Hitler and many junkies find relief from the control that opiates have over their life in that alternative. The fly in the ointment is that methadone has control also.
Chinese Junk
Drugs were the scourge of pre-communist China. Today the country is using again and producing too
You may grasp religion as a tool but not God.

On Religion
Kahlil Gibran

Have I spoken this day of aught else?
Is not religion all deeds and all reflection,
And that which is neither deed nor reflection, but a wonder and a surprise ever springing in the soul, even while the hands hew the stone or tend the loom?
Who can separate his faith from his actions, or his belief from his occupations?
Who can spread his hours before him, saying, "This for God and this for myself; This for my soul, and this other for my body?"
All your hours are wings that beat through space from self to self.
He who wears his morality but as his best garment were better naked.
The wind and the sun will tear no holes in his skin.
And he who defines his conduct by ethics imprisons his song-bird in a cage.
The freest song comes not through bars and wires.
And he to whom worshipping is a window, to open but also to shut, has not yet visited the house of his soul whose windows are from dawn to dawn.

Your daily life is your temple and your religion.
Whenever you enter into it take with you your all.
Take the plough and the forge and the mallet and the lute,
The things you have fashioned in necessity or for delight.
For in revery you cannot rise above your achievements nor fall lower than your failures.
And take with you all men:
For in adoration you cannot fly higher than their hopes nor humble yourself lower than their despair.

And if you would know God be not therefore a solver of riddles.
Rather look about you and you shall see Him playing with your children.
And look into space; you shall see Him walking in the cloud, outstretching His arms in the lightning and descending in rain.
You shall see Him smiling in flowers, then rising and waving His hands in trees.

If we would all be able to truly use our free will, and not be subjected to fear or domination of any kind, would we then be truly happy and no longer in need of "opiates"of any kind?

If believing in a Creator would just be silent factor, and not a means to a goal, or a means to justify certain atrocious actions and could no longer be used as such, where would that leave us..would we be scared out of our wits, if our lives and futures would truly be ours to shape?

"So I would not use the term painkiller, but instead a tool to keep us under control, to dominate us better."

Yeah, that is mostly what I take from the quote but I went off on a tangent there... don't know how I started talking about painkillers. Maybe because my head hurts :)

"would we be scared out of our wits, if our lives and futures would truly be ours to shape?"

Our lives are ours to shape. There is nothing to fear but fear itself.

A lot of religious people wonder what life would be like without a God and without religion. The answer to that resides with Atheists.

The human nature is to colonize in a social structure similar to ants and alpha ranking systems

Futures seem to require faith, hope, and love, do they not?

Ants have futures and men have providence

Our lives are ours to shape. There is nothing to fear but fear itself.
and Franklin Roosevelt has been accused of being a socialist

(*cough*I like the ideal of socialism*coughcough*)

Many people believe that slavery ended over a hundred years ago but there are more people bought and sold today

Ideologies can be as confining as religions
capitolist say we are created equal and communist say we are equal and it seems there will always be those who are more equal than others

If there were no God, man would still need to invent one as a crutch"
To be honest that makes about as much sense as saying if there were no sun man would have to invent one to stay warm
Did man need to invent parents to be born?

The original quote from Voltaire "If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him" would at least state that God is necessary for all

Why is life worth living, as a poet you need to ask this question?, wow

^^
When someone starts a discussion, it does not neccesarily mean they do not have the answer to the question raised. I know what makes me tick, and was curious about the vision on this subject by other members.

If there was nothing, no higher being or deity... We would be at the same level as the animals we trample on...

We as human beings need purpose, a sense of reward if adhere to our morality... It makes us strive to exist in this world...

So Marx was right... Our drug is god... Sadly nowadays there are many too addicted to it...

Well now Bob you know I love you and Kevin like a brother and always wish the best for you, but my daddy always told me to wish in one had a do something else in the other. I would now like to thankyou for the great advice, while I reminisce about wanting to share the joy I found in sobriety with a poet that pretentend to be cursed with the same spiritual disease that God had delivered me from. C.W. was so offended that I believed the lie his buddy had told he never passed on an opportunity to berate me and my beliefs. He must have wondered "where's the fun " because he posted WTF which is FTW backwards. You cited him with a violation of rule 1 1. The first and most important rule is to be respectful to all members. Being disrespectful to other members will not be tolerated. I have never seen a cripple healed by a crutch, but I would swear that I have seen many healed by God

Just suppose for one second he was right, and there is nothing above us, no higher being, force, whatever you want to call it, what would make our life worth living, if it wasn't for Him?
^^^^
My view on this is varied I guess, as their would really be no reason to live. What do we have to look forward to if there is nothing after we die; nothing to keep us in boundaries of what to do. We would be like animals, which I think someone already said. How could we have hope in anything if there is nothing to even believe in, in the first place.

Now, I guess one could say that just to live for the moment and to help this world further in its technology and discoveries could be a reason to keep living, but that is only for people who aren't self centered which sad to say is "most" everyone now a days.

"When I was going through my transition of being famous, I tried to ask God why was I here? what was my purpose? Surely, it wasn't just to win three gold medals. There has to be more to this life than that."
Wilma Rudolph quote

She seemed to have Faith, Hope, and Love
and put her heart, soul, and mind, into being the best she could be.

'Science explains that emotions are the result of a change in the concentration of chemicals. This has been backed up by several years of research. This, therefore contains an element of truth, but perhaps there is an external force (ourselves) who induce this change, rather than the chemicals per se'

If the mind is not an anomily, than certainly the laws of nature are.

"we all need something to lean on at some point in our lives, most find solace in religion, too bad we can't find it in each other....."

Charity is the greatest of the theological virtues, without it "survival of the fittest" rules.

My view on this is varied I guess, as their would really be no reason to live. What do we have to look forward to if there is nothing after we die; nothing to keep us in boundaries of what to do. We would be like animals, which I think someone already said. How could we have hope in anything if there is nothing to even believe in, in the first place.

^^
Long ago, before the birth of Christ, certain people that lived in tribes were like animals, while others built empires that were somehow much like ours ( Romans, Aztecs) I tend to believe that those who had the idea that something bigger than them steered them were more focussed and made more of their life while they were here. If you believe you stem from a force that is holy then maybe, just maybe that makes you a better man.

I would rather live in a tribe like an animal, but that has nothing to do with religion.

Amazon warriors, yeahhh baby

Actually, I recommend the book Last of the Amazons by Steven Pressfield. The Amazon [though they are not clearly understood historically] way of religious/spiritual thinking in Pressfield's book is absolutely gorgeous.

Me Tarzan you Jane

I would recommend Miracles by C. S. Lewis,

"Miracles is a book written by C. S. Lewis, originally published in 1947 and revised in 1960. Lewis makes a case for the reality of miracles by presenting the position that something more than nature, a benevolent creator likely to intervene in reality after creation, exists."

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My own beliefs have been somewhat inspired by Kurt Vonnegut's 'Cat's Cradle' and 'Freedom From the Known' by Jiddu Krishnamurti. Other books too, but I guess this really isn't a book discussion :)

Though I don't believe in God, I love this...

"God made mud.
God got lonesome.
So God said to some of the mud, "Sit up!"
"See all I've made," said God, "the hills, the sea, the
sky, the stars."
And I was some of the mud that got to sit up and look
around.
Lucky me, lucky mud.
I, mud, sat up and saw what a nice job God had done.
Nice going, God.
Nobody but you could have done it, God! I certainly
couldn't have.
I feel very unimportant compared to You.
The only way I can feel the least bit important is to
think of all the mud that didn't even get to sit up and
look around.
I got so much, and most mud got so little.
Thank you for the honor!
Now mud lies down again and goes to sleep.
What memories for mud to have!
What interesting other kinds of sitting-up mud I met!
I loved everything I saw!
Good night.
I will go to heaven now.
I can hardly wait...
To find out for certain what my wampeter was...
And who was in my karass...
And all the good things our karass did for you.
Amen."
- Cat's Cradle

I especially like the first half.

I will check out Miracles by C.S. Lewis ;) Thank you

Ha! I am currently re-reading Cat's Cradle, fancy that. There is a lot to be said for Bokononism, which acknowledges that truth is only ever whimsy and we live in a world full of nothing but lies. I love its honesty and harmlessness. It is so refreshing, especially when the main reason people believe in God or Science or...anything...is to pursue Truth with all the human self-importance they can muster. I'm certainly one of those seekers, but I don't think I care as much anymore. I am more like a slug now, close to earth and contented. I think this means I'm far less intelligent. GOD forbid.

If religion is the opium, God must be the poppy.
(Is that what all the spiritualists say?)

If religion is the opium, God must be the poppy.
(Is that what all the spiritualists say?)

I live in the south known as the bible belt
Most southerners believe that any carbinated beverage is a coke.

Someone from the north said he entered a country store, and asked the clerk where her pop was?
After giving it some thought she said "He's out back plowing"

The mystery of the Trinity encourages a mystical accepting of our divine nature to be open to compassion for our brothers and sisters, and respect their spiritual path

And respect their spiritual path

^^
To be aware of that path, and to be able to respect it, is what sets us apart from animals, I believe.

At the end of the day, it is not so much what came out of your mouth that matters, but what you DID.

What did you do with your time?

"What did you do with your time?"
Goods and services are commodities. I believe Karl Marx's intentions were Good. I just read that alcohol consumption has gotten worse post communism
Every point of refuge has its price.
What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him 'unclean.'"
It is not unusual at all for contemplatives to think in terms of eternity,but even mother nature seems to have reward and punishment.

Religion was the opium of the people, with a big perhaps...Karl Marx being the father of communism could say so since opium was legally available in those days...Regardless of availability, it won't bear the same meaning today or even yesterday for opium stupefies whereas true religion should enlighten...However, a simple notion that could capture nation after nation is ignorable in no way...Religion at times can be example of how helpless mankind can be and at the same time, I cannot help but praise our thrive to structure the unknown...If you look at any time-line regarding religion, the earlier emphasised more on the narration of creation while the later dealt more with making us civilised...The Gods were too distant, trapped in their supra-natural heroic forms, and as time demanded, a more down-to-earth God was necessity...Comes the most amusing part: most people forget to consider the time and situation upon which each religion was introduced...A perfect opium, as you may call, would be a blend of all good from every religion, putting us in a trance of divine agelessness - true eternity of mind, no vein attached...Currently, religion's a trademark you and I can exploit still, just like this, like that too - whatever this and that might be...Why not exploit into something better? :-)

I am speaking too much again...
Fullstop...

^^

Mhh, like your words:)

I think religion, as are games ( in all meanings of the word) are meant to keep us happy and also easy our pains, make our fears for the unkknown ( death being a major one) go away, keep us united and all noses pointed into the same direction. It is mass- manipulation, trying to control the peoples of this earth is no easy job.

I think the Creator does not need praise at all, just for us to live our lives to the best we know how. His "spokesmen"were never appointed by Him, nor were His words ever heared by any living creature..leaves the door wide open for manipulation.

The original quote from Voltaire "If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him" would at least state that God is necessary for all

I used to be more of a thinker than a believer
There is not usually a balance between Rationalism and spiritualism Rationalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In epistemology and in its modern sense, rationalism is "any view appealing to reason as a source of knowledge or justification"
There are so many ism's and chism's that I can rationalize anything

Written: written in October December 1836;
Source: Marx and Engels, Collected Works, vol.1, International Publishers, 1975;
Transcribed: by jim.esch@launchpad.unc.edu.
"Never can I do in peace
That with which my Soul's obsessed,
Never take things at my ease;
I must press on without rest.

Others only know elation
When things go their peaceful way,
Free with self-congratulation,
Giving thanks each time they pray.

I am caught in endless strife,
Endless ferment, endless dream;
I cannot conform to Life,
Will not travel with the stream.

Heaven I would comprehend,
I would draw the world to me;
Loving, hating, I intend
That my star shine brilliantly.

All things I would strive to win,
All the blessings Gods impart,
Grasp all knowledge deep within,
Plumb the depths of Song and Art.

Worlds I would destroy for ever,
Since I can create no world,
Since my call they notice never,
Coursing dumb in magic whirl.

Dead and dumb, they stare away
At our deeds with scorn up yonder;
We and all our works decay --
Heedless on their ways they wander.

Yet their lot I would share never --
Swept on by the flooding tide,
On through nothing rushing ever,
Fretful in their Pomp and Pride.

Swiftly fall and are destroyed
Halls and bastions in their turn;
As they fly into the Void,
Yet another Empire's born.

So it rolls from year to year,
From the Nothing to the All,
From the Cradle to the Bier,
Endless Rise and endless Fall.

So the spirits go their way
Till they are consumed outright,
Till their Lords and Masters they
Totally annihilate.

Then let us traverse with daring
That predestined God-drawn ring,
Joy and Sorrow fully sharing
As the scales of Fortune swing.

Therefore let us risk our all,
Never resting, never tiring;
Not in silence dismal, dull,
Without action or desiring;

Not in brooding introspection
Bowed beneath a yoke of pain,
So that yearning, dream and action
Unfulfilled to us remain."

www.victorianweb.org/philosophy/phil2.html

Many social scientist, at one time or another, have been inspired to believe and many theologians, at one time or another, have been inspired to think. How else can it be while we seek truth?

When an inventer chooses to assess faith and reason may he reason that he has the faith to build something new?

How else can it be while we seek truth?

^^
Yes, but sadly so, we will never find it, because we are unable to see things as they really are. Our limited intelligence stands in the way.

It would be no more fair to give credit or blame to the success or failure, depending on your point of view,to Karl Marx for communism than the give credit or blame to Thomas Aquinas to the success or failure of catholicism
Saint Thomas Aquinas, was an Italian priest of the Catholic Church in the Dominican Order, and an immensely influential philosopher and theologian in the tradition of scholasticism, known as Doctor Angelicus (the Angelic Doctor) and Doctor Communis or Doctor Universalis (the Common or Universal Doctor).[1] He is frequently referred to as Thomas because "Aquinas" refers to his residence rather than his surname. He was the foremost classical proponent of natural theology, and the father of the Thomistic school of philosophy and theology. His influence on Western thought is considerable, and much of modern philosophy was conceived as a reaction against, or as an agreement with, his ideas, particularly in the areas of ethics, natural law and political theory.

In his Summa Theologica Thomas reviews the seven gifts of the Holy Spirit

St. Thomas Aquinas says that four of these gifts (wisdom, understanding, knowledge, and counsel) direct the intellect, while the other three gifts (fortitude, piety, and fear of the Lord) direct the will toward God.

"Yes, but sadly so, we will never find it, because we are unable to see things as they really are. Our limited intelligence stands in the way". I believe the above mentioned Doctor agrees that man connot see things as they really are in the spiritual realm without spiritual gifts.

A gift can be accepted or rejected

How the Marxists Buried Marx
Everyone knows that, he denied he was a 'Marxist'

Capitalist and Communist have enough WMD's to end the world as we Know it
Who would you prefer to be in control spiritual wisdom or human intelligence?

Who would you prefer to be in control spiritual wisdom or human intelligence?

^^
Our ratio dominates our spiritual awareness. In us all lies the answer to everything, but while we are here and have to live our day to day lives, we cannot truly reach that level, too busy surviving and accomplishing the task we have set out for ourselves in this life time.

The Balance of The Heart, Soul & Mind" reflects the humanness of us all, and the Divine Redemption, which frees us from ourselves.

On Good and Evil
Kahlil Gibran

"Of the good in you I can speak, but not of the evil.
For what is evil but good tortured by its own hunger and thirst?
Verily when good is hungry it seeks food even in dark caves, and when it thirsts it drinks even of dead waters.

You are good when you are one with yourself.
Yet when you are not one with yourself you are not evil.
For a divided house is not a den of thieves; it is only a divided house.
And a ship without rudder may wander aimlessly among perilous isles yet sink not to the bottom.

You are good when you strive to give of yourself.
Yet you are not evil when you seek gain for yourself.
For when you strive for gain you are but a root that clings to the earth and sucks at her breast.
Surely the fruit cannot say to the root, "Be like me, ripe and full and ever giving of your abundance."
For to the fruit giving is a need, as receiving is a need to the root."

Is the ratio between being allocentric and egocentric?

I am sorry, in Dutch "ratio"is a synonym for human intelligence, I think in English that may not be the case, reading your words.

Ha ha, I had to laugh a little when I read this post above. People are always so eager to label. I don't hold much value to this division between "good" and "bad"...we are all students here and our capacity to forgive both ourselves and others for mistakes ( which are essential for growth in any form by the way!!) is what reveals both our wisdom and love for our fellow men and will ultimately determine our capacity to grow to our full potential.

I am sorry, in Dutch "ratio"is a synonym for human intelligence, I think in English that may not be the case, reading your words.

The ratio thing did throw me
The mind for some is as intangible as the soul and emotion

Since the Enlightenment, rationalism is usually associated with the introduction of mathematical methods into philosophy

Who would you prefer to be in control spiritual wisdom or human intelligence?

^ That's some question. I immediately thought spiritual wisdom.

^^

Lol,I will second that. If we truly allowed it to prevail in each and every individual, we would be living in paradise;)

If Marx was one of the great thinkers of his day, then Edgar Cayce should be considered as a great dreamer of his day

Edgar Cayce has variously been referred to as a "prophet" (cf. Jess Stearn's book, The Sleeping Prophet), a "mystic", a "seer", and a "clairvoyant".

While he slept he saw catastrophe, but he also saw mankind evolving a sixth sense that would allow all to see things as they really are

Religion, as the great, and potentially soon to be late Christopher Hitchens put it is;

"Mankinds first clumsy attempts to explain the world, and the universe around our planet. Religion is mankind crawling before walking. A needed stage in our evolution as a species, but one we need to step past, pun intended"

It's part of our culture, globally now..doesn't matter which religion you speak of, the general idea of religion and Gods is universal, it's ingrained in us in so many ways.

It would be nice if the opening poster included the full quote from Marx, which sheds more light than the often quotes "opium of the people".

I like to view religion from on high.

/wrygrin.

It does seem that ideolgies more often than not leave a spirit behind. Reform or change always is met with resistance by some and accepted by others.

On 30 June 2010, Hitchens postponed his book tour for Hitch-22 to undergo treatment for metastatic esophageal cancer.
Seems that life and death is a catch-22
and we all have agendas

I have to admire the honesty of those who place a great value on human dignity.

It will be interesting how Hitchens will be remembered

He has a sense of humor that has elements of truth
"Falwell was that full of sh*t that if you gave him an enema he could be buried in a matchbox..."
It is sad that many represetatives of ideology and religion shed such a poor light as to make them seem undesirable.

There are delusions that are in the most allocentric and egocentric beings... would you agree?