Lets talk about DCM

This is just a discussion, in no way I'm attacking anyone. just voicing my thoughts and concerns.

so which clubs are interested in DCM and accepting it, why and under what conditions? on the other hand, which clubs aren't and why not?

I thought this might be helpful to members who are thinking of DCM and will save time and effort on both sides if they knew in which clubs it's accepted.

I have to say I'm against the whole thing but that's neither here or there. I don't mind seeing other people's point of view on this. who knows. maybe there is something I am missing.

I believe that, Britt and Jane, you've tested it, so what did you find the pros and cons to be? I think you're also keeping eyes on members in such cases since it's still a new feature so how many members approximately are in two clubs now and which clubs have already accepted DCM? any drama yet?

I also believe you're both club managers of The Club and Page by Page (maybe just assistants? no idea). but anyway wouldn't that crowd the list of clubs and encourage inactive clubs to stay as such, if every member, lets say, made a new club and stayed in another or just took the easy road and joined another instead of making any effort in his/hers?

I can understand when you're a mere member and have no say that maybe you want to join another club, but when you're the club manager or assistant then there are ways to let clubs be more active like to accept new members, post more interesting threads, kick out inactive members.. etc. so wouldn't it be easier and drama less for those who dislike or want a more active club to just quit and join whatever club they like, in other words, to learn to choose?

now as in challenges, If you can be in two clubs, why write only in one when it comes to a contest? and does that mean that one club would be your true club while the other would be just.. a pass time? wouldn't that be a bit awkward for members? I'd say they can either write for both or none at all when it comes to contests. especially that in those contests you always have two poems per person clause, no?

another concern is the two accounts, why do you have to have two accounts? why not join with the same? doesn't that give a fake illusion of the sight being active while it's the same members being on and off with different accounts? not to mention crowds the website with more accounts of the same people? wouldn't it be easier and CLEARER to use the same account since you'll know who's where and can track them much easier and we on the other hand can know who exactly we're talking to/dealing with.

I guess there is nothing left to contribute.

Princess, I am slightly confused as to why you would come back and then restart discussions on something that we have already as a site discussed.
In other conversations, your questions have been answered. Have you browsed through all the recent threads?
And finally, this could've been posted in the DCM thread itself.

"why do you have to have two accounts? why not join with the same?"
That's not possible unless Janis changes things around.

Regardless, this new opportunity has been done away with.

To answer your question... It was working great and it was a lot of fun :) Nothing bad about it if you follow the rules. 100% positive and beneficial.

Oh well.

You guys are getting what you want. I hope you're appreciating it, not abusing it.

I'm sorry If I don't get your first line Jane, but Is restarting a discussion against the rules somehow? I don't get why you're confused, mind to explain?

as to the website discussing it, if you call two members, Amanda and Chels, the whole website then it's ok. it has been discussed indeed.

what I was trying to do was get more people to have their say. positive or negative. I was curious myself what everyone thinks. I did not post it in the sticked thread because not a lot would notice it up there and I though people would feel more comfortable answering a discussion from a member than a mod, especially that Britt did not open it as a discussion but just introduced the idea.

I also did not want it to seem like I am attacking Britt in her thread, so I started a new discussion. ''discussion'' being the key word. nothing more, nothing less. I think you as mods should be glad of it, not the opposite. I mean you get to know if your efforts are being put in the right place and if it's indeed what members want or not. so instead of like asking why I am posting it you should encourage such discussions.

I don't think my questions were mentioned or answered in any thread as far as i've read. I wanted clubs to come forward and have their say so we can have a list of clubs agreeing or refusing, as I've mentioned in my first post.

I had some suggestions as to the rules if this was indeed going to continue, not that I in all honesty thought it would because none of the people and clubs I know were easy with having their members in other clubs, except yours and Britt, which made me curious if there was anyone else having DCM and how did they find it.

I was also curious as to the conditions each club accepting it would demand including yours and britt's. but then it does not matter now, does it? and also I was wondering if the fact that it's against the coding does that makes it against the rules.

and a lot of other things. but as it been mentioned above, there is no use discussing now or nothing left to say. just thought I'd clear myself here.

Have a splendid day everyone!

The site wasn't the same without you, Norgihan, ha ha ha!

For me personally one account is enough, I have always had just one. I don't like all of this nonsense...why bother? Don't people have lives to live outside of P&Q?

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For other uses, see Duel (disambiguation).

Knights Duelling, by Eugne Delacroixs practiced from the 11th to 20th centuries in Western societies, a duel is an engagement in combat between two individuals, with matched weapons in accordance with their combat doctrines. In the modern application, the term is applied to aerial warfare between fighter pilots. A battle between two warships is also referred to as a duel or a naval duel, especially in the Age of Sail when such encounters were more common

The zen masters that are more in to duals still find an issue with groups

^^

You really know your history, don't you, Michael?

I suppose I feel the people who refuse to look back are doomed to repeat mistakes lol
Title: We the People
Topic: Patriotism
Genre: Special Event
Club: THE CLUB

They say "we the people" started this nation that endures
The beautiful land that is mine, the same land that is yours
Founding fathers knew eternity is a right smart piece of time
As they pleaged alligegiance to the source of their rhythm and rhyme
Must "we" became "they" at the end of the day,
or does every generation have something to say?
"O say can you see, by the dawn's early light,"
was it "we" or "they" that gives us the right?

For those of you who don't know what eternity is that is about the amont of time it takes everyone to agree

"I don't get why you're confused, mind to explain?"

Ah, well your second post definitely gave me a much better impression than the first. The point of this thread seemed to reiterate things already said and questions already brought up and answered, except for the first part which asked which clubs would be accepting DCM. Hence my confusion.
I too would like to get feedback from a broader spectrum of members, and so if that was what you were trying to encourage, then thank you!
However, it appears we have the same group of people making appearances on the main boards these days so it's hard to get a realistic sample to represent the PnQ population.

Maybe we could talk about DCM now while it's no longer occurring to see if it's something worth considering for the future.
I wish people who actually like the idea would be brave enough to make a few comments.
However, that's the issue with these discussions... we end up with a self-selected sample. People who feel passionately against the idea will state their opinions, while those who are quietly for it, will choose to not bother expressing themselves. Therefore, we end up with ~4 people responding out of the several hundred thousand people on the site.
Nonresponse bias. It's a pain.

Ingrid you sound like my professors when I enter a class while I was absent the one before rofl

for me one account is enough as well. but I can understand people wanting more than one provided that they don't misuse them. as to people not having lives, well to me, I've been on here since I were 16 and I'll be 20 this November. though some would not understand that p and q is a part of my live, so is everyone I've come to know here. they helped me grow, see different sides and I would never have been the same person I am today without them. they've influenced me and left an impact on me that much, yes. actually I believe everything we stumble upon or come across while we are alive is a part of our lives. it's not like I cease living while on here.

Michael, I've missed you and your posts. so are you suggesting me and Jane duel now? *laughs* i don't think it would be in favor and I don't fancy being dead now. suggest a safer idea.. or are you merely implying we're acting uncivilized? maybe we remind you of people dueling?

and yes, i agree. history repeats itself, we have a saying here that states that if you know history well you can predict/know the future.

------------------

''I too would like to get feedback from a broader spectrum of members, and so if that was what you were trying to encourage, then thank you! However, it appears we have the same group of people making appearances on the main boards these days so it's hard to get a realistic sample to represent the PnQ population.''

you have two ways, at least two I can think of, either to ask club managers about their point of views separately in pms since they are the ones who approve or refuse DCM in their clubs or lessen the tension in the boards and people will start re-appearing I am sure. no one needs to feel threatened. be it mods or members.

and I'm all for talking about DCM actually. that's what the discussion was about first place.

Jane has a laoded gun , but she is very civil

dual>duel

Unity is greater than diversity in my book.
The ratio between dual and duel is better achieved by spiritual wisdom that math
You may be a Princess here but tread softly with Queen Jane

I don't want to duel anyone, thanks Mike N' Ike ;)
I would also like to lessen the tension on the boards. That'd be a huge relief.
PM'ing club managers individually is a great idea!
Worth a shot anyway. If they don't respond, we'll of course have to figure out another strategy.

I have to put my two cents in, ya wonder why everyone leaves this site these days is because of all the drama and unnecessary decisions. This is so ridiculous.

"Jane has a laoded gun , but she is very civil

dual>duel

Unity is greater than diversity in my book."

:)

Dual>duel. I like that.

I agree, Dreamer. What do you suggest?

Also, about PM'ing club managers to find out if they're ok with DCM or not... it occurs to me that it's not black & white. I would personally pick and choose who could or could not come into my club with dual membership. If I had to choose one or the other, I'd say no DCM. Fortunately, DCM is something that can be done on a case by case basis. That's what I like about it.

A loaded gun? oh better be careful then. no matter how civil is a woman, you needn't anger her with a gun in sight.

actually the reason I mentioned uncivilized is because of the dates. also according to what I've studied duels were at some time a form of justice, actually more of cruel injustice mistaken for justice. in ancient Rome for example, they believed that if two people in dispute duel then god will make the rightful one win. no questions asked.

''dual>duel
Unity is greater than diversity in my book.''

agreed.

Jane, I'm sure most will respond. I know almost everyone has a say in the subject.

So which clubs are interested in DCM and accepting it, why and under what conditions? on the other hand, which clubs aren't and why not?

A site needs members as much as rules and guidelines
Before the DCM expriment it was tatally we and them and then the baorders became less an issue .It seems that walls can do as much harm than good.
No offense to Ingrid, but in a free country anyone has the right to do their free time as they will . I feel I have not wasted mine.

I added to my last post. It's really not a cut & dry deal if you think about it. I wouldn't say THE CLUB (my club) is either for or against DCM. We would decide case by case (person by person applying).

Haha, don't worry about angering me. I have flash anger. It goes as quickly as it comes and the worst I do when I'm angry is vent.

"Before the DCM expriment it was tatally we and them and then the baorders became less an issue it seems that walls can do as much harm than good."

I agree, DCM helps diminish the we vs. them mentality.
I really enjoyed stepping inside my club to be with my close PnQ family then stepping into another club filled with people I like and am slowly becoming better friends with. Except for Karl, 'cause we go way back.
A lot of you are asking, why have clubs at all? I like clubs because I can take a step back from the main boards where a lot of people don't get along, and be with people who understand me better. Mostly I like clubs because I feel more comfortable sharing things about myself with smaller groups.
I myself can't fathom having any impure reasons for taking part in DCM. It's fun and that's it.

''I agree, DCM helps diminish the we vs. them mentality.''

actually I believe DCM strengths it, since I know a few clubs that are against the idea as a whole. not to mention that some members won't be accepted in certain clubs. because as you said, it's a case by case issue. so it does not diminish the we vs. them. what it does diminish is the sense of belonging to one club.

we have main boards for people to get together, meet and discuss everything. but clubs, clubs are special. and should remain that way.

If you enjoyed Britt's club and the people, why don't you both like.. unite both clubs and have one? it's easier.

Atmospheres are different in each club. Plus, if everyone in my club doesn't want to join with everyone in Britt's club... what would be the point?

"not to mention that some members won't be accepted in certain clubs."

This is nothing new, that's how clubs are anyway. Managers have always been able to decide who to let in.

"what it does diminish is the sense of belonging to one club."

Yes, it does diminish the sense of belonging to one club. To me, that is definitely the equivalent of diminishing we v. them.

"but clubs, clubs are special. and should remain that way."

Clubs are special and will remain that way. I disagree that DCM takes away "specialness."
Unless by specialness you mean mob mentality? Because it does help take away that.

Digging up recent controversy, members in Cindy's club could easily create 2nd accounts and move on elsewhere while remaining loyal to Cindy's club.
DCM allows for things like this to happen.

I think of clubs themselves not as single entities that should require fealty (because that's a lot of pressure and drama waiting to happen), but as meeting spots for people with shared interests. Britt's club and my club combined fulfill my interests, but not for everyone in each of our clubs which is why we would not combine to form one club.
Does that make sense?

Yes, it's nothing new. but with DCM it's more of a problem, because you're not accepted in other clubs because you're a member in a club already not because they disapprove of you as person. plus when lets say only you and Britt are accepted in each others clubs. other clubs refusing the idea of DCM. no one else is having DCM it doesn't sound good, does it? you can't blame people for thinking it was made for certain people.

it does diminish the sense of belonging to one special club but it does not diminish the us vs them because you're not in ALL clubs. but in two. meaning there will always be us and them. you're talking about two different things.

we have to agree to disagree then. I choose to be in RTVW and would not leave it for the world or to join another club. no matter how active they are or aren't. we all contribute to make it what it is. to me that's that is the ''specialness'' being with them through all times. not escaping somewhere else when they are not active enough.

"no one else is having DCM it doesn't sound good, does it?"

Actually, others are/were interested in DCM. I'm not sure we're broadcasting individuals though. They'd probably prefer their privacy, especially since DCM has been indefinitely dismantled.

"I choose to be in RTVW and would not leave it for the world or to join another club. no matter how active they are or aren't. we all contribute to make it what it is. to me that's that is the ''specialness'' being with them through all times. not escaping somewhere else when they are not active enough"

I am loyal to individuals in my club, not the club itself. I guess that's the difference. Who's escaping? You mean all the people choosing to leave the site lately?

Everyone is entitled to their opinions and disagreement is something we must accept, but making others feel disloyal or cowardly (escape?) for wanting to be in 2 clubs is something that should be reconsidered.
We can state our opinions without aiming to make others feel guilty or wrong.

I suggest threads like these that are no longer relevant to anything on the site be locked or deleted, considering DCM was dismantled, why keep talking about something that no longer exists? It does not matter & talking about it isn't going to change anything lol

I meant escaping to another club actually. not quiting. as to clubs, they consist of people, Jane, being loyal to the club means being loyal to people in it and vice versa. at least that's what I meant. but then I guess people view things differently. that's why I said we should agree to disagree on that point.

now what do you think of us leaving a chance for other people to voice their opinions if anyone intends to do such that is. since both sides are clear now anyway. unless you want to ask something else?

"considering DCM was dismantled, why keep talking about something that no longer exists?"

I figure we are now talking about it to decide if it should be given a second chance. No harm came from it the first time around besides a bunch of complaints about what *could* go wrong (not what did, mind you).

"talking about it isn't going to change anything"

It might!

"being loyal to the club means being loyal to people in it and vice versa."

No, I think being loyal to people means being loyal to people. Clubs are groups of people, but they're being made into a single entity with this talk of "if you leave, you're disloyal."
The difference to me is, if anyone leaves my club, I'll still be loyal to them as a friend/person/individual. I would not harbor resentment if someone wants to experience something new.
My dad taught me to hold on to who I love with an open hand. If you care about the individual, you will rejoice in their freedom to wander and indulge in life outside your own world of perception... aka club :)

"unless you want to ask something else?"

I'm primarily here to answer questions, not ask them. If you or anyone wants to ask something else, I'll be around.

As I said we view things differently. to me i think the moment you join a club you put all your effort/activeness in it. yes, we do come on the main boards and help each other and all. but in the end your represent your club, if you're in one, be it in a competition or challenge. or be it in voicing a collective opinion on something, like this topic. it does not mean that I don't have friends outside of my club that I am royal to and i very much respect and it does not affect my freedom one bit because I ''choose'' to be there.

I believe no has problems with people choosing to leave though, but wish them the best and all. but some do have problems with people who are not able to choose. they just want to be here and there and some people are not fine with it.

that's my point. but I do get yours. it's just a matter of different opinions.

''I'm primarily here to answer questions, not ask them. If you or anyone wants to ask something else, I'll be around.''

no actually. nothing. and the reason I mentioned that was actually because what started the whole discussion was you asking why I restarted the thread while it has been discussed.

I get your point(s) too, don't worry. I'm disagreeing with them, that doesn't mean I don't respect or understand them.

Different opinions are one of PnQ's charms.

"no actually. nothing. and the reason I mentioned that was actually because what started the whole discussion was you asking why I restarted the thread while it has been discussed."

Oh yeah, I did ask if you had read the other threads, but mostly I was confused as to why this was started when other DCM threads hadn't come close to being filled. It's nice to keep topics to one thread until it's filled so we have everyone's comments to observe.
Doesn't really matter now does it? :) haha

Ok, I'm stepping out for a while. Take care everyone! Be back to answer questions a little later if there are any.

Please continue discussing.
We really do appreciate the input as long as you guys aren't just trying to make our jobs as mods difficult :P that'd be silly, especially since we've been more than fair lately.

Cheerio!

We had Britt in our club for a while, and I rather liked it! She was active and fun to talk to. DCM can be good in cases where someone might be invested in one club, but still interested in chatting more privately with other members. For example, Britt is loyal to the club she is leading, but hey, who can resist the sexiness of The Club? DCM allowed her to gallavant with us for a bit, and talk to us more privately, while still being engaged in her club. PnQ used to have a chat room, but I never really went on it, so this seems like a better option.

Also, have any of the naysayers thought of this?:

If you do not like dual club membership, do not accept DCM people into your club. Voila!

"and since when do mods listen to members, scrpping it because of complaints is so unlike you all."

It's a new day in the mod squad era and we listen to complaints :)
Glad you guys are noticing...

I'm still all for the Dual Club Membership thing and I think we should continue giving it a chance until it's actually misused, in which case it should be reevaluated.

"If you do not like dual club membership, do not accept DCM people into your club. Voila"

Double bingo.

"If no one wants to participate, there is no point in having it only for Jane and I."

Dare I say we weren't the only ones? Because we weren't.

"but what if someone that's already in your club wants to try it out.."

I don't understand the question. Already in as in a member or a hacker?

Fact of the matter, this isn't about you or me Britt even if others are trying to make it about us.
It could be beneficial for the whole site. I'm just one person in thousands who it could benefit!

Ah, well who cares if you don't want DCM members in your club but your members want to do DCM? As long as you're ok with your member doing DCM and whatever club they enter is ok with them entering... still no issue.

And I'll be the first to admit I wasn't solely a DCM dummie haha :P I actually enjoyed being in 2 clubs a lot! Fun, fun.

"If you do not like dual club membership, do not accept DCM people into your club. Voila"

I have to disagree. why make a feature for ''specific'' people. it will create more mess, since MOST clubs if not all except 2 or 3 clubs would refuse it.

'' I'm still all for the Dual Club Membership thing and I think we should continue giving it a chance until it's actually misused, in which case it should be reevaluated.''

and I'm against it until we have a RESPECTABLE list of clubs approving such, at least half active clubs, which should not be hard. it's only HALF. and of course a respectable number of members from DIFFERENT clubs as well. since it's supposed to be made because MEMBERS asked for it first place. though I still have no idea what benefits would be gained of such. only more of mess and confusion and extra work for the mods and managers of clubs. something which is not needed. but still provided that the majority wants it, i'm all with it. otherwise I'm not.

''The only way to make true sense to bring it back is if people will actually participate or WANT to try it out. ''

Exactly Britt.

"why make a feature for ''specific'' people."

No, it's for whoever wants to take advantage of the option. Don't if you don't want. It's designed for anyone who wants to try it, not specific people or specific clubs.

So what if not a lot of people end up doing it? As long as it's not causing a mess - which it isn't beyond the complaints of people that aren't even involved in doing it - there's no REAL problem.

It will end up like this Jane, because specific clubs will accept specific people. since not all clubs will be open to the idea. once you start making rules that do not apply to all, it becomes unfair to a point, don't you think so? since some people who WANT to be in two clubs would might end up excepted or not. and some might want to be in two clubs but one of the clubs won't approve of it and hence it will be a problem as well. as I said rules should apply to all or not at all.

as to your question, if few people end up doing it despite what the MAJORITY thinks, you mean? as I said a mess and drama. and believe me people are NOT happy. I guess you know that since you guys get the pms. so not a good step. especially with no one speaking up for yet except you guys.

Britt, I believe Anna's club is active as well.. it's standing outside the fire. no idea otherwise. maybe you guys need to post a thread for such. I think this needs to be public. plus it needs to assured that all those interested in DCM will be indeed accepted in both clubs. otherwise we're going in circles and this thing as some fear would only be allowed for specific members and in specific clubs. which does not make it a rule. but more of an unneeded mess.

that's my two cents.

I don't really see why it's mess or confusion. Nobody is forced to try it. Clubs should discuss and come to consensus if they are going to consider accepting Dual members. It's giving the people who want to try it an opportunity to do so, and for the people clubs who don't want to try it, nothing will change. If someone wants to be in two clubs but one club won't accept them.... boo hoo? That's no different than it is now. It's not the job of the mods or this site to preserve everyone's delicate feelings.

I for one am glad to see mods trying something new, in the hopes of getting people involved and excited about the site.

"all those interested in DCM will be indeed accepted in both clubs."

No. That's forcing clubs to accept people. That's ridiculous! THAT is something that would absolutely cause issues. Members should always have choice. Choice is most important.

"Meaning if I join two clubs realistically neither club will be getting the best of me."

I give the best of me wherever I go. That doesn't mean anyone gets or deserves ALL of me. There's enough Jane to go around.

"In the end I think you'd just see a bunch of DCM people in the same 'two' clubs."

Ok but if that's the case, then it's 100% not an issue if those 2 clubs are happy.

Ya'll are bringing up a bunch of moot points! HA!

Britt is totally right that 2 clubs are for it and 2 clubs are against it as far as active clubs go. I laughed aloud at that, but it's absolutely right.
So how about PR and RTVW don't do it? That's cool with me.

Definitely some great suggestions!
I'm pleased.

"That will be the day when everyone is happy. We as members can only ever voice our opinions and hope to find a happy medium for everyone."

:)

"These are honest questions to a solid test run. If you're not finished with the test run why demolish it now?"

If you guys are ok with us continuing it, I for one would love to.

'' No. That's forcing clubs to accept people. That's ridiculous! THAT is something that would absolutely cause issues. Members should always have choice. Choice is most important. ''

yes. actually. but not the way you understood it. you said that people who WANT to try it will be given a chance. then clubs who approve of DCM which I doubt will be other than yours and Britt's should accept those members ''WANTING' to try it. otherwise were will members try it? clubs who don't approve of it first place don't have to worry. they are not the ones fighting for people's rights to ''try''. which I doubt will be fair. now that's ridiculous I know, but that's what you're doing to us, forcing us to accept something we don't want to only for certain selected members who enjoy being in each others clubs.

but like Amanda says, lets wait until you everything is better planned, at least foundation for such then see what will happen..

"forcing us to accept something we don't want to only for certain selected members who enjoy being in each others clubs."

You don't have to accept it. You don't have to take part in DCM at all! That's what's so great.

"It's like visiting a friends house."

Couldn't have said it better myself :) Awww

I didnt actually mind DCM, and i still dont see the harm of joining more than one club!

'' If you don't, thats fine. Doesn't mean new clubs in the future wont want to participate. ''

when they want to.. no rules are made for future maybe's Britt. and I added an Edit to my post actually.

as to forcing. yes it seems. since most people don't want it and you're like those who don't want don't have to do it. but at the same time you're making it because of a lot of members asked for it. and at the same time you enjoyed it and were the only ones trying it but it's not for you. who's not being serious here?

it's either you're making it for members who want to try it and have a place for them or not. it's either for you or not. and it's either for too many people asking for it or not. just have you pick, Britt.

and I'm sorry if I sound like complaining. I'm just being honest here. guess I'll just be quiet until some real suggestions or answers are posted. I've never in my stay on p and q saw a rule made for those who want to try it. I've never even seen something as DCM! No DCM! DCM? which is what's happening here.

''But everything has been riddled with complaints''

the first complain was not mine!

''So I could say what I wanted and I could play games and I could get to know things about people otherwise I probably would've never actually talked to. And then when they weren't being super active or no one was on at that particular time, I could jump back to my club and see what was going on at home.''

I understand, but a curious question, couldn't that happen on the main boards? I mean if that whole thing is to get people together, shouldn't your efforts be directed to the main boards?

'' And Jane and I were the tests. I don't know why thats hard to understand - we wanted to check for loopholes, tighten up the rules to ensure people would realize if they abused this, it wouldn't be taken lightly. So before we posted it for all the members to see, we tried it out for ourselves. It's not for me, myself, personally. I'm sick of defending myself on that. Did you expect the mods to hand select 20 members to test it out first? Can you imagine the outcry of the "biased" complaints we'd have. Why did we select THOSE people, etc.''

not if you have considered all clubs opinions first concerning DCM. but what's done is done, I guess. lets concentrate more on where to go and what to do from here. provided the majority approve.