Concerning weekly wins

I was discussing this with a mod and they said I'm the only one who seems to have thought so and asked me to open a thread.

On the past weeks I've noticed that amazing poems including Abby's ''salute to sex'' and Danny's ''fleeted'' didn't make it to the front page although they both had the highest nominations and were the best on the nomination page. however looking back at the dates, the both had poems that won 2-1 week(s) before their nomination.

so I was wondering if the judges are not allowing back to back wins or close-period wins, although it was said that starting last month the period restriction on wins would be removed, still, I haven't seen anything showing that.

Honestly, I wouldn't look that far into it. We don't know who the judges are, and we should give them credit for the work they do. If you want to be a judge Nor so you can have a say and guarantee that poems win every week, then go for it. Accept your nomination, don't decline. Are you not satisfied that you won this week?

Of course, I understand that they're giving time and effort in this but I was just wondering if they are aware they can choose the best poems despite who is the author or when they won last. or if they're still holding on to the them period.

I've been told the same, that I should accept instead of complain (in a polite way) and that the next judging would be in March, I'd be a bit free then, so I accept. although I think that it shouldn't be accept or shut your mouth because most of those who declined (that I know) did so for reasons and for what they thought the best so when they have concerns they should voice them. (I know that's not what you meant, I was just pointing it out since it was said to me).

yes, I actually said in my club that there were better poems than mine, including Danny's and Melissa's but it was pointed out to me that Mel's is still in the nominations, thankfully.

You could nominate more instead of complaining? You did accept your nomination, that could help as well. Maybe the poems you like would win then? Of course nominating doesn't guarantee a win, but it could possibly make a difference. I think there will always be disagreements with the weekly winners - complaining over and over will not change anything. Seems to me honestly, that you only want your friends to win - which brings us back to how some think that everyone nominates their friends. It's just a endless circle - are we really accomplishing anything? Not really.

Nor this is how it works ...

Being that I am a judge and have been for the past few weeks I will explain how it works.
And then perhaps this whole judging thing can be put to rest.

The judges have little buttons that say
10 points 7 points 4 points
(only one poem can get one of those votes)

We vote for not which poet we think is the best ... but which poem.

Now if I vote
10 points for poem 1 yet (judge 2) only votes 4 points. That poem has 14 points

Now (judge 3) votes 10 points for poem 2
and (judge 4) votes 4 points but ( judge 5 ) comes along and votes 7 points ... That poem now has 21 points

Now sometimes one judge may vote for a poem ... yet no one else does. So that poem will only have the (10,7, or 4 ) points.

You have 5 judges ... not 1 not 2 but 5
And everyone has a different taste.

I can honestly say that it is NOT an easy job. We have to read each and every poem.
And though I can only speak for myself, it takes me hours each Saturday & Sunday reading.
No I am not the best on this site, but I do think I am very honest and fair in my choosing.
I DO NOT choose a certain poem because that person is or is not my friend.
I choose what I think is the best.

Now in order for anyone to think that the judges are not fair would mean that they too, would have to read each and every poem in the nominations list.
Now how many people do that ?

So the only thing I can suggest Nor is that if you are not happy with the judges or the choices is to accept your nomination.
Otherwise ... I think that judges are doing a damn fine job !!!!

Not to mention ... taking hours each week out of their lives and dedicating it to P&Q for the LOVE of the site.

Hope this helps

No, we'd have friends and favors and no one to pick at xD

there has to be some middle solution, since you're our only way to judges, Britt, would you let them reply you in a pm if they allow back to backs or wins that are in a short time period (lets say, a week or two?) and post their replies. just so we know.

Edit:

Thanks, Luanne, it does help. I didn't however say anyone votes for friends, but more of for those who didn't win in the last one, two, three weeks.

I do read every poem nominated. thanks for the reply.

do you think it would be easier for you as a judge if you guess know each other and could discuss your choices via a judges club or pm?

Yes, she did! and I encourage all the judges to just post xD LOL

I understand some judges not wanting to be known, it can create hard feeling and hurt feelings.

I take the judging as job. One I will do to the best of my ability.

I think it clears the air on the whole judging thing if people can totally understand how the voting works.

Harassed? they were harassed? O.O

wow

I'm not saying anyone's is not good enough, Britt, or attacking any winning poems, unless it's mine, as I mentioned above to Temps.

I understand the whole no judging club thing, but I have an idea if judges would think it would be better if they could discuss things together. Luanne made an RTVW club on a different website with a password and all for times when this website would be down, so maybe she can make one for the judges and judging? it would be secure enough and passwords can change when judges change. That's if that's what they want.

and yes, Luanne, thank you, it does clear things.

Thanks, Luanne, it does help. I didn't however say anyone votes for friends, but more of for those who didn't win in the last one, two, three weeks.
^^
Nor with 5 judges there are a total of
5- 10 point votes
5 - 7 point votes
5 - 4 point votes

So if you take all those votes and spread them out ... there can be as many as 15 poems voted on.
Not likely but could be.
The poems with the highest amount of votes wins.

So it really doesn't matter if someone has or hasn't won in the last few weeks. It all breaks down to how the votes are spread.

I do read every poem nominated. thanks for the reply.
^^
Well I am glad you do.

do you think it would be easier for you as a judge if you guess know each other and could discuss your choices via a judges club or pm?
^^^
I think it is best as it is now. I would not want to discuss my votes. I vote for which poems I think are best. 10 points best 7 next best 4 next best

That is what makes it great the way it is. 5 different people who vote based on their personal opinion of the best.
Course I don't think any of the judges are professionals. But with the addition of the comments that was introduced a few weeks ago I think it assures the members that the judges are taking their responsibility seriously and are indeed thoroughly reading the nominated poems.

EDITED : Please no one take me wrong that the judges didn't do a great job before. They did a fantaaaabulous job !!!
And I appreciate their hard work more than ever now ... "now that I have walked a mile in their shoes" ... lol

Down voting happens to everyone, not just judges, take a look at my poems xD you just notice them when you think there might be a reason for them. but rude pm's? that's nasty.

''Two of the four that disagreed stated they felt they would be influenced and therefore not judge on their own thoughts but based on others, and that it could open for potential bias.''

I disagree since to me it would be more of benefiting from each other's knowledge and looking more into poems, reasons and discussing them and even then they won't all agree on some. but since they don't want it then really it's up to them, I was just suggesting.

Edit:

Thanks Luanne, I see.

Alright, I'll just come out and say it. Yes, I'm a judge. Nor you know that as I've told you in a PM just now. Nobody knows who gives certain poems said points, judges have no idea what points belong to what judges. Let's just end this discussion now, please? I'm tired of hearing about it.

Disclaimer: I don't want people to think I'm bitter about not winning -- I just think the choices are often a bit random and based on poet rather than poem. I've been a judge before and I enjoyed it and considered the people I was judging with credible. (I miss Auzy)

Some people are in dire need of some chill pills ;)

I don't want people to think I'm bitter about not winning
^^^
I can't see that you would be. Doesn't seem like you to be a bitter person ... lol

Based on poet how Danny?
I can't speak for anyone else but I know for myself I barely know some of the previous winners.
Or not at all.

Thomas - don't know him
NightFlyer - don't know that person either
Sibyllene - we spoke maybe 4 times
Lostlove1 - a few times when she was in RTVW
The Prince - would be you
Melissa - never spoke to her either that I remember
A Bowed Whisper - that person either
Britt - Know her, but don't we all .. lol
Melopomene - Talk to her often
TJBecker - don't think I ever chatted with him
Schemilix - don't know that person either
Silvershoes - chatted maybe 1 or 2 times
Anna Stephens - know her
Hellon - know her

Need I go on ... lol

Some people are in dire need of some chill pills ;)
^^
I am in Canada and quite chilled ... lol
I think I answered quite politely and tried my best to make "how the winners are chosen" clearer.

I don't think anyone needs chill pills ... because I don't think anyone is upset.
If anything I think the way the winners are chosen and how the votes are added is crystal clear now.
Don't you?

I wasn't specifically referring to you, Luanne! It's my bad -- I didn't read through everyone's posts before I made mine. Just got the urge to throw my two cents in sometimes. Can't help myself! :)

Sorry

That's ok Danny, no harm done :)

I don't think I vote based on poet, of course it'd be nice to see some new faces win, but I am not like that personally.

I'm probably being insecure, but it seems like the only time anyone has an issue with who's on the front page is when I'm on it. Ha.

I don't see what the big fuss with this thread is all about. Nor is just checking that the judges are aware that the once-monthly-winner rule has been lifted for now. Big whoppin deal.

'' Nor is just checking that the judges are aware that the once-monthly-winner rule has been lifted for now. Big whoppin deal.''

Thank you, Abby, I was beginning to have even a worse opinion of my English!

Actually my pm to britt asked those exact words:

'' are you sure the judges are judging now based on the BEST poem and not on who won before and who didn't? because both Danny's and Melissa's poems were much better than mine. would you pm the judges and let them know that anyone is allowed to win even if they won last week since their poems are the best nominated? ''

she said the judges knew and I told her it doesn't seem like it.

and No, Jane, I didn't mean you at all. sorry you took it this way.

----

as for the first judge, Thank you, I appreciate your answer so much. I think you should write such a guide. however, when I mentioned voting for a ''poet'' it wasn't meant being bias towards a person, but more of choosing poets who didn't win before. just thought I'd make that clear. again thank you, I know your job is hard, time consuming and all. I was just afraid maybe some are still withholding the time restriction on wins.

---

as for the second judge, No comment, really. I think you need to read this all again since most of what you said wasn't mentioned to start with and maybe Danny can spare one of his chill pills. maybe.

Edit:

Thank you, Britt, for posting these!

Everyone gets too defensive around here, especially as of late. I think the most valid point made is everyone has different tastes. 4 or 5 random judges are going to come up with 4 or 5 random choices, which is what I think will keep it fresh. I think coming together and discussing is going to narrow the view. I don't think anyone was trying to be insulting or overly critical, just satisfying a curiosity that many of us have had over the years at different point.

I know there have been weeks where I won and thought, how did I beat this other poem? There have been times where comments made it clear that all work is read differently depending on ones experience. I know sometimes I get criticized for my simplicity, but sometimes I look at more complicated pieces and think does it have to be that hard?

Everyone is looking for something different out of a poem, what seems simple or hard to some people, is emotionally evocative for others, never mind throwing in technical detail that others also look for.

Not making a big fuss Abby. Just explaining to Nor the reason why your poem and Danny's may not of made it to the front pages in the previous weeks.

And giving a clear picture of how the winners are chosen. Which I think will benefit everyone in the long run.

Jenn, I see. so maybe it is indeed better not having a discussion place for the judges. and I agree about people who use difficult words, I swear I've read some poems here that I needed a dictionary to understand! so not cool. xD not for me anyway!

I think my question is still unanswered, so let me repeat, would you judges allow back to backs or wins from the same poet with a one week gap? just asking.

Yes, that was the only judge who answered me. hey, mysterious judge, I have to admit, me likes you! ( just had to say that xD) thank you!

A big thank you to the ones who give of their precious time to keep this place alive and make a meaningful contribution.

I have little to add to what the judges and Britt said to you all. We work hard, we even vote for people we despise, if need be. Anyone who thinks he or she can do a bettter job, sign up for the next round.

''We work hard, we even vote for people we despise, if need be.''

*blinks*

despise?

wow

how generous of you.

There have been times when I thought this or that poem should have won or i liked this poem more than that, but then i think what sort of judge am i, am i more worthy than others, well the answer to that is easy HELL NO...!

So Nor why do you think your opinion is more worthy than others...?

Nicko, I'll be really thankful to you if you seized placing words into my mouth? thank you. I never said my opinion was more worthy than anyones, but I'm afraid I'm not as humble as you either concerning it (and wouldn't like to be).

In fact this isn't an opinion thread to start with. (certainly not my opinions at least) and here I thought my ''question'' was really simple.

I think the things you mentioned, Donald, would full under Education and beauty in the list? but yes, defiantly.

about the contest, I disagree, Donald. I can only talk about myself but I remember trying and trying at 2007 to ''Win'', to me a certain quality and creativity was needed to be on the front pages and when I did I was the proudest person ever, yet 2 accounts and something like 8 or 9 wins later, I'm totally indifferent towards the whole thing now. sad. I don't think I would've appreciating winning by default.

to me, making a ''charity'' contest (where you get to make those who didn't win before win on the expense of the rightful winners out of good will and intention) isn't my idea of ''encouraging'' members. but rather being unjust. mostly because ..

1- This is a contest, just imagine how anyone would feel if on the contests they carry on here they didn't allow people to win twice? it's not rational.

2- It drops down the level of competition, you're not competing with the best poems anymore but more who didn't win. not cool. not to me at least.

3- It's terrible misjustice towards those who wrote the wining poems, if they can keep their level two or three times after eachother then surely they deserve credit, they deserve the win, not many can do that.

4- we read and judge poems and not authors names. I wouldn't like to see a ''new name'' there but a lesser poem in quality. not to mention you're not going them newbies any good anyway by letting them win by default.

just my 2, er... no, just my 7, 8, 9 cents xD

Charity if you're letting them win just because they didn't win before, although theirs wasn't the best. but if their poems are indeed the best then kudos to them! I'm all for it!

you see, I'm not with only a handful winning or newbies wining, I'm with the best poems there winning regardless. the reason I'm talking too much about people who won before wining again is because the time restriction is on them and not in their favor, no more no less.

I hope so Britt, I truly hope so since only one of them answered me, and the others totally ignored my question. anyway, we'll see.

Nor it has been answered over and over and over again !!!!

We vote for not which poet we think is the best ... but which poem.
^^
As I stated in my first post.
How else do you want us to say it?

I, one of the judges of P&Q am fully awake and of sound mind and know there is no time restriction.

Oh this was in your post from the start? I haven't seen that in the long post perhaps, my bad. weird.

two out of five then. and temps told me in a pm that she's not with poets wining over and over again but she votes fairly, I trust her, then three? two judges left?

Edit:

Luanne, you don't know the judges or talked with them as far as I understand so how can you say ''we'' or talk for them? there are, I'm sure, some that would favor newbies (which is up to them as judges, really, their choice) I just want to know what to expect.

anyway, thanks!

Britt, Jane,( EDITED Sibs I mean not Abby), Sher, AnnMarie, Joe whoever else is a Mod if any ...
penalize me, suspend me .. whatever

This is absolutely ridiculous and stupid and not to mention pointless.

I tried to explain it nicely and clearly and now I am done !!

Nor don't waste your time replying ... because I won't be answering again

P.S I at first wrote Abby BY MISTAKE instead of Sibs ... and then EDITED.

Wow. I don't see why you should be suspended though. you think this is stupid and pointless, well, that's your opinion. thank you for your input so far. appreciated.

I'm still curious to know the remaining judges opinions/answers on this. I don't know why is everyone talking things on their nerves.

Edit:

It was so not my first choice to take this on the main forums from the start, but I almost thought we'd be able to talk this out more easily and maturely than this. if only everyone would just stick to the point (including me of course).

Britt please remove me from the judges panel.

Before I need to submit a (bleeping) blood sample too.

Thank you

=/

Britt, yes, I think posting the pm would have removed the confusion, but I can see your point. thank you.

and thanks for the judge for explaining, I'm sorry If I was a bit disrespectful, I just have a bad habit of answering/speaking in the same way the person does or in a sarcastic manner when attacked and I thought you took my post the wrong way. Thank you again, I owe you.

I so hope as well. I feel like my energy is drained and I'm not up to dealing with more mess for a few hours at least (must be the affect on my coming exams) however I didn't want this locked in case someone has something to say.

I adore Jane's thread as well, like I've already told you yesterday, I wish more would participate in it, would surely not like to see it die. speaking about participation, where is your poem, traitor?

Yes, you said you'd post after me, then poofed away. was just joking, Britt.