Penalty box those for, those against

Seems like we are divided on this issue so why not find out how many are for and how many against

Some time ago myself and others fought tooth to have this sort of thing abolished. I find it very draconian and stifles freedom of speech

I am against

I don't like it, but that is mostly because it seems to be currently, outside the very fair and well worked out rules I, and many others worked hard to write.

If this idea is to remain, it needs to be worked into the rules so everyone knows where they stand. Right now, the penalty box is sort of a random, sudden "you're gone".

I know Mods won't just use it without good cause, but it's not official and therefor unfair.

There is a system in place. Is it effective? depends on the way its implemented. When a system like the penalty box is introduced in such an ad hock arbitrary manner its bound to cause angst
And I think thats half the beef with this, we are all left wondering what when why....

An effective administration cant work under such provisos and be effective, lets face it the mods do administer this site

The last thing I want is to be overly critical of you guys 99% of the time you do a fantastic job that 99% of the time gets little thanks or reward and I know we have also discussed this before but the mods have to work as a team we don't see evidence of it at times. Maybe you discussed the P Box behind closed doors maybe you all agree it should be implemented. But us on the outside don't see that. What we see is deleted posts and members. We as members need to be a part of the process

I am for it, personally. It gives a time out without saying good-bye. And I emailed every one that was placed in the "box" personally.

I'm for it. Straight and simple.

Britt no offense taken, in reply all effective admins be it companies i've worked for or governments i've lived under have a process ( a bit like due process) for introducing new procedures laws etc.
You don't send somebody to prison then introduce a law to justify it, i know that sounds extreme but thats effectively whats happened. Even though 3 of the members agreed that they were in the wrong.

Im sorry if its not in the rules its pretty hard to justify..

Ok, I am for it. I didn't like it in the past because it was given without explanation and the stay was too long for "petty crimes" - 2 weeks.
3 days for just cause and with an explanation makes sense to me, and then an extended period of time for a very serious offense or series of serious offenses... with 2 weeks being ultimately severe.
Maybe 3 days the first time, a week the second time, and then three strikes you're out (indefinitely suspended).

For some it seems "penalty box" is a degrading name and that's what's throwing you off, but the idea is actually a more lenient option than penalizing until a member is permanently suspended. I prefer leniency.

Yes, Nicko; however, it is up to the judge to show lienancy before prison....

Of course Sherry the difference being the Judge was told of the new rules as he went on to the stand but the defendant had no idea..

As with Britt things can come across as being harsh this is not my intent re my posts

If you intend to implement something to the benefit of all why not let us all know whats going on. Give us a chance to express our views before hand....is that so hard?

Otherwise we have a dictatorship which is why currently half the worlds at war

That makes sense, Nicko, and in cases where we have enough time, we try to inform the members. Sometimes a situation needs to be dealt with immediately and it already takes time for the mods to chime in and have a majority vote without having to wait for a sufficient number of members to log in and chime in too (and especially, come to an agreement).
In this instance, the boards were turning into a battlefield and certain members refused to curb their tongues even after we stepped in countless times. The chaos rapidly escalated last night and it was time to act. Penalizing wasn't doing anything and if we continued on that track, it's likely all 4 members would be gone forever because the site permanently suspends anyone who reaches 10 penalty points. 3 days away from PnQ will give these members time to cool off which wasn't happening with them lurking around here, egging each other on.

And the rules they did break were clearly outlined...

We just chose a lesser punishment than banning them.

Nicko, you know we will not suspend someone just because... you have known me longer than that.

With that said I for one refuse to ask the members for permission before I act upon something and I also refuse to continue to explain myself from this point forward.

Yes, it sounds harsh, but it is even harsher to constantly be bitched at by everyone.

Yes Sherry I have known you longer than that, and yes ive seen you show huge amounts of tolerance when many would crack, I respect you and i'm not having ago at you per se

All im asking for is some sort of procedure that is transparent and puts us all on a level playing field.

Anyway i'm going to repeat myself so I'll stop here

"All im asking for is some sort of procedure that is transparent and puts us all on a level playing field."

That's a very reasonable request and I would also like to outline the guidelines of the penalty box so everyone is clearer.

Thinking out loud and it would take a bit of refining maybe but you could sticky a thread called adults only "Not happy Janet" thread

Where members could take there grievances and have a good old slanging match with one another without fear of being deleted I'm sure it would make very amusing reading,

members could be told to take their argument here or face the penalty box there choice.

You could have a no swearing clause, but what goes in there stays in there it cant be brought on to the boards

As arguments via PM just don't work

That's not a bad idea... that way, both members have made the choice to take it there. Can we call the potential thread "Outside?" That way, they'd be forced to say "Let's settle this.... outside!" That, or "Happy Unicorn Lollipop Land."

I think both people would have to agree to go in there. You wouldn't want one person verbally beating on the other with no response.

I'm not ruling the idea out, but I'm afraid I don't see why we should support disrespectful behavior anywhere? We ask members to take things to PM, but that sort of behavior doesn't belong on a poetry website period.

Sorry Nicko, that is a very risky idea, and here is why.

If you think for a second, people like Noir and Bob are going to keep hurtful nasty things said in some kind of royal rumble freeforall thread, confined to that place, you're kidding yourself.

Personally, I'd love it if the whole website was like that, without of course serious harassment or rascism etc etc, but I'm thinking of the Mods here. Research shows that when people " let it all out" they don't calm down, what they do is strengthen their mental pathways towards being aggressive and verbally abusive when they get annoyed.

This idea would channel that.

Listen, the penalty box wasn't introduced in a very clever way, but it's here now and the MOds are going to work it into the rules, so rock on.

Yes you're probably right, good intentions and all that but the train could fall off pretty quick i think

Oh well just brain storming

Next....

*watches as her dream of Happy Unicorn Lollipop Land erupts into smoke*

Oh Uncle BillyRob, what would family be without these spats? ; )

(No, I agree.)

I am for it, seeing as nowadays members get so many signs from both the mods and the members(!) before they actually get penalized. It is not a random decision made by one person, it is the mods as one block being tired of all the name calling and the petty crap. It drags this site down and should be stopped.

I am for either the penalty box or something to stop the nonsense that went on in the past few days. That kind of behavior needs to stop, especially if you want more participation on the main boards.

And just to clarify... Bob corrected me in saying

"just so you know, I never said I thought it was fair,,,I said I deserved it..."

________________________________

The rest of the email I have left out to prevent any more fighting.

What's the difference? Deserving/fair?

Beats me.

who wants to hear me play the violin?

I am for the penalty box !

''What's the difference? Deserving/fair?''

The difference is in the part of the email that was ''left out'' in order not cause ''more fighting''. I'd recommend either posting the message as is or not posting it at all. But picking the parts that suits the message one is trying to deliver and leaving out the rest, especially if they're sent as a whole, is not at all creditable.

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Ingrid, sure, I love music. Would love to hear you play.

^She posted the part of the PM that was directly related to her earlier statement, in order to clarify that Bob apparently does NOT think it was fair. The rest of the PM was personal railing, which I'm sure Bob will expand on himself when he gets back tomorrow.

'' She posted the part of the PM that was directly related to her earlier statement, in order to clarify that Bob apparently does NOT think it was fair.''

My bad then. I thought she meant it the other way round. I have to say however, his words cropped like this makes him look like a joke and he certainly won't be happy about it. I think it wasn't needed to post chosen parts and leave out the rest. You could have either posted it all or not bothered with it.

I hope when he tries to clarify himself he won't be put in the penalty box again or penalized for it. It wasn't his doing. I think most of us wouldn't like it if our words were taken out of context. Especially if it made us sound like his did.

His words were not taken out of context in my view.

However, is there not anything that we can do to please you? I am personally tired of the attacks and criticism.

What in the world would it take for you to lay off and give us some sort of break?

I was merely trying to clarify that he felt is was DESERVED, but you always want to push it even more.

Tell me, Nor, and I am not being sarcastic here... to much pain for that at this times, but what do we do that is right in your opinion?

By the way it is not to any of us to say what these three individuals will say or do when they return. That goes for everyone.

Sherry, I'm sorry if you feel this way or If I happened to give you that impression. what I was trying to say here was either post it all or not, I can see this causing more problems once the members are back and then you guys would get more upset or angry when it could have been helped from the start. Just my opinion.

I don't think Bob thinks or felt it was deserved but I'll leave that to him and other members when they return.

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''What in the world would it take for you to lay off and give us some sort of break?''

No idea, really, it isn't planned so I don't know. I never meant to give you a hard time so don't take it that way. It's not like I wake up thinking ''what can I say to piss them off today and make their lives miserable'' that's not true.

I merely voice my dislike of something when I happen to dislike it along with reasons why, don't read into it (because I say everything I mean explicitly) and don't take it personal (because I have a bad habit of judging the act and not the person which caused me problems with a number of ''friends'') if you keep those in mind, it should be alright.

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''Tell me, Nor, and I am not being sarcastic here... to much pain for that at this times, but what do we do that is right in your opinion?''

Frankly I can't make a list of the right or wrong things you do, I actually have nothing in mind concerning both atm. But Tell me we did or do 1, 2 and 3 for example and i'll tell you what I ''think'' of them.. like 1 is ok, i'm all for 2. however 3 to me doesn't make sense.. etc.

Oh and I don't think you should make everyone pleased, that's hard if not impossible. Just take into consideration everything with an open mind.

We do take everything into consideration with an open mind; however, to be frank it seems and appears as though you attack us more than anyone else and yes in my view you over step your bounds at times.

We should not have to answer to you on everything we do. I feel as though if I was to tell you that I am going to the bathroom then you might try and quiz me about it to make sure I actually went and performed correctly.

Honestly, it would be much appreciated if you just stepped back a little.

''Honestly, it would be much appreciated if you just stepped back a little.''

I've had another Mod ask me the same thing. My answer was, I can't promise anything like that, I'm just like other member and when I have something or opinion to say, I will say it. I don't think I break any rules by doing that.

Again, I don't attack ''you'' I just state my disapproval/dislike (or whatever you call it) concerning some ''decisions''.

Knowing that the members temporarily suspended felt the reprimand was deserved seemed to satiate some members. Bob and others are apparently lurking on this site and not respecting the purpose of the penalty box (taking time away from PnQ to cool off). Deserved and fair are the same thing in my book, but I'm sure he'll be more than happy to share with us the difference upon his return.

The point being made was and is that these members know they deserved to be punished for their inappropriate behavior because it was ceaselessly breaking our long-existing site rules.

I know I already said I agree but I have a serious question. Are the moderators even taking into consideration what the outcome of this is? I'm not starting a fight and I am not demeaning anybody so don't twist my words. :] Thanks.

I mean lets say ,that somehow between now and the time this thread comes to an end. The against vote gets higher. Would you still have it even though more members didn't want it?

I see your point. Thanks for clearing that up for me. :] I just was wondering and I tend to go seeking for answers when I am inquisitive! XD

Well if this is a tally vote or turns into one then I better voice my opinion now.

For the penalty box, I do think it gives people time to cool off. It is better than permanent right off the bat.

Absolutely ridiculous that there is even a thread about this!

^ I'm afraid that's not constructive.