Genius, is it or aren't we smart enough to know..

I am curious what qualities or achivements a person must display or accomplish to earn from you fine people, the title "genius"?.

Is it someone who does things in a chosen field, like music or science that no one else seems capable of doing? Or is it just a sort of general high level of intelligence?

Who do you consider a genius and why?

My nephew once posted on my face book, if there are no stupid questions what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Before anyone takes that personally I will tell you right now I don't believe I am a genius. I searched my gene pool and found some fairly impressive relatives that almost wore a title. I know what it feels like to be treated differently because I am far from neuro-typical . There are many people that have Asperger symptoms that are thought to be better than most at thinking outside of the box The examples that come to mind first is Bob Dylan thought to have earned a title as the father of modern folk. Albert Einstein ,one of the top physicist and the controversial Al Gore nominated for the Nobel peace prize . Local figures on the edge of success have less fame. Many people that know who Robert Fulton was probably are less familiar with John Fitch (January 21, 1743 July 2, 1798) who was an American inventor, clockmaker, and silversmith who, in 1787, built the first recorded steam-powered boat . Henry Ford , Thomas Edison, and Harvey Firestone hung out together. Thomas E. Murray (October 21, 1860 July 21, 1929) was an American inventor. There are countless Europeans such as Louis Pasteur in medicine Sir Isaac Newton astronomy physics and math and Michel de Nostredame to name a few of my favorites. One of the most read poor students could be Edgar Casey

Last but not least Robert Burns Poet Song writer

I still can't figure why they think Dylan is an aspie

Can an aspie express emotion like this?
http://youtu.be/uMWLjgPTR_c

A genius is one who is not easily comparable, in a positive way.

"1. an exceptional natural capacity of intellect, especially as shown in creative and original work in science, art, music, etc.: the genius of Mozart.
2. a person having such capacity.
3. a person having an extraordinarily high intelligence rating on a psychological test, as an iq above 140.
EXPAND4. natural ability or capacity; strong inclination: a special genius for leadership.
5. distinctive character or spirit, as of a nation, period, or language.
6. the guardian spirit of a place, institution, etc.
7. either of two mutually opposed spirits, one good and the other evil, supposed to attend a person throughout life.
8. a person who strongly influences for good or ill the character, conduct, or destiny of a person, place, or thing: Rasputin, the evil genius of Russian politics.
9. genie ( defs. 1, 3 ) .
Synonyms
4. gift, talent, aptitude, faculty.

1. a person with exceptional ability, esp of a highly original kind
2. such ability or capacity: Mozart's musical genius
3. the distinctive spirit or creative nature of a nation, era, language, etc
4. a person considered as exerting great influence of a certain sort: an evil genius
5. Roman myth
a. the guiding spirit who attends a person from birth to death
b. the guardian spirit of a place, group of people,
Word Origin & History

genius

late 14c., from L. genius "guardian deity or spirit which watches over each person from birth; spirit, incarnation, wit, talent," from root of gignere "

At the military club, where I once toiled, there was a precision guided weapon, AKA "smart bomb". on display in the bar. If I was on the negative side of someone with PMS that had a GPS I would pray they had ADDS. Evil genius can be as negative as positive in a moral sense, as unfortunately we may have learned that hard lesson on one 9/11

Would you like to be more specific about "in a positive way" TS125?"

Hyperfocus and Aspergers
One of the unusual abilities that aspies have is "Hyper-Focus. Like all aspie traits, hyperfocus is a double-edged sword.

On the one hand when combined with the special interest and aspie long-term memory, it is responsible for the genius label as it applies to apsies. On the other, it's responsible for many learning and obedience issues with Asperger's children.

Hyperfocus is commonly found in Asperger's children who also have the ADD/ADHD comorbid

My teachers aways gave me low marks in effort as if they saw something trying to come out of my daydreams, or they just thought I was lazy

The mods think I am a smart ASS but the forum rules never made sense to me ...lol

ASS as in Asperger Syndrome Symptoms

"For a person to become more smart he has to recognize which data are of value for him. What is valuable for him also depends on what his purpose is but the above description still holds firm. He has to develop a skill to see which data are important for him in the ocean of data that he is operating in."

At least one genius found it difficult to chose between art and science

Leonardo di ser Piero da Vinci (April 15, 1452 May 2, 1519) was an Italian polymath: painter, sculptor, architect, musician, scientist, mathematician, engineer, inventor, anatomist, geologist, cartographer, botanist and writer. Leonardo has often been described as the archetype of the Renaissance Man, a man of "unquenchable curiosity" and "feverishly inventive imagination".

Comparing artist to scientist reminds me of this quote
During the Second World War, Winston Churchill's finance minister said Britain should cut arts funding to support the war effort. Churchill's response: "Then what are we fighting for?"

I consider a genius anyone who has exceptional abilities in anything... which means the world is full of geniuses :P

In my (quick) opinion. A genius may basically come down to the ff things:

1. Ability to have sound syntheses from his/her wide and credible learnings.
2. Ability to store a great amount of data for his/her long and shor term memory. And have easy access to them at any time.
3. Creativity = very important because all those praises for genuises who are "ahead of their time" carries such characteristic. This actually goes hand in hand with #1
4. Productivity = requires the genius to provide practical progress (whether first hand or secondary)
5. Good judgment

... and there's definitely more. The thing is, you can't really create a whole definition of a genius. Because when you do, one can easily give an instance or a person that possess all qualities yet not be a genius.

The philosophical school that is concerned with this is Aesthetics. If you are interested highly on this topic, I recommend Denis Dutton's article entitled "What is Genius". His abstract:

There's a school of thought which holds that there's nothing much of interest that can be said about genius. The root idea is older than Kant, but it was well summarized by him: genius is a natural endowment, deep, strange, and mysterious, at least with respect to putative explanations. Schubert can get up in the morning and before lunch knock off five songs that captivate us hundreds of years later. There's no way for us to account for this, and we ought not to expect, Kant claims, that genius can explain itself either: Schubert doesn't have a clue how he does it. Yet trying to figure out how creative geniuses do it remains a permanent source of fascination, most of it fairly naive. When the reporter is sent out by the City Editor to interview the famous, crusty old novelist, the first question is normally, "Where do you get your ideas?" Of course, if the novelist knew that, he'd not be likely to blab it in the press. Kant's point is that he cannot really know; no one can. Monroe Beardsley relays a story about Picasso, who claimed to suffer from "an indigestion of greenness" from walking in the woods on a summer's day: "I must empty this sensation into a picture," Picasso said. "Green dominates it. The painter paints as if in urgent need to discharge himself of his sensations and his visions."...

It could be found online but needs membership, but if you want a copy. You can pm me and I can try getting it.

"Winning an internet fight is like winning the special Olympics, Win or lose, you're still regarded

I thought I read this quote right here first. but even though you can google it, the genius that said it first may not have a copyright.

Genius is not always politically correct if I can make that point without penalty points

Someone here said it came from the plain one that a former mod thought had many of the qualities of a genius.

"The root idea is older than Kant, but it was well summarized by him: genius is a natural endowment, deep, strange, and mysterious, at least with respect to putative explanations."

This is brilliant XYZ, really nails it for me.

I think the title is tossed around like a ragdoll to every successful musician, artist, film maker and scientist. True genius, I feel is when a person creates something or discovers something, and no one can understand how the did it. Real genius is beyond understanding, though of course you can recognise it well enough if you are educated on the subject they bust open.

Interesting Kev... will you consider the claim that genius is somewhat natural? Since even the genius him/herself cannot explain why/how they come up with a specific idea?

If yes, then another follow up question that may seem significant: If its natural, then does that, in a way, belittle their effort?

The Nobel Prize

Awarded for Outstanding contributions in Physics, Chemistry, Literature, Peace, and Physiology or Medicine

The Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel, identified with the Nobel Prize, is awarded for outstanding contributions in Economics.
Presented by Swedish Academy
Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences
Karolinska Institutet
Norwegian Nobel Committee
Country Sweden
Norway (Peace Prize only)
First awarded 1901
Official website nobelprize.org
The Nobel Prizes (phonetic:, definite form, singular, Swedish: Nobelpriset) are annual international awards bestowed by Scandinavian committees in recognition of cultural and scientific advances. The will of the Swedish chemist Alfred Nobel, the inventor of dynamite, established the prizes in 1895. The prizes in Physics, Chemistry, Physiology or Medicine, Literature, and Peace were first awarded in 1901.

Would the award winners be a good place to search for the genius title holders?

Will there be a Kevin prize?

." I think the title is tossed around like a ragdoll to every successful musician, artist, film maker and scientist. True genius, I feel is when a person creates something or discovers something, and no one can understand how the did it. Real genius is beyond understanding, though of course you can recognise it well enough if you are educated on the subject they bust open."

That would assume that the education taught the student everything, and all the regarded geniuses had a superior ability to accept the light of the truth to be at the center of their focus

As in a complete system centered on the enlightenment

"The philosophy of Immanuel Kant (1724-1804) is sometimes called the Copernican revolution of philosophy to emphasize its novelty and huge importance. Kant synthesized (brought together) rationalism and empiricism. After Kant, the old debate between rationalists and empiricists ended, and epistemology went in a new direction. After Kant, no discussion of reality or knowledge could take place without awareness of the role of the human mind in constructing reality and knowledge."

It amazes me even when mankind copies natural designs for his creative construction or manufacturing.

Hey ABC,

yeah I suppose, real genius is natural. It seems those precious few who have amazing ability in whatever area, don't seem to struggle...their skills are easy to them.

I know a woman who is, without a doubt the most amazing dancer I've ever seen. She knows dozens of styles and teaches all over Edinburgh. She says it comes naturally to her, she can watch a dance and just do it, her body has natural intelligence. Of Course, there are other things she isn't good at, even physical things (I once gave her a drum lesson and she sucked).

I don't think, if genius is a natural state, that it's diminished. Perhaps in the eyes of the person in possession of the skill, but not in the eyes of those observing.

''I know a woman who is, without a doubt the most amazing dancer I've ever seen. She knows dozens of styles and teaches all over Edinburgh.''

Wouldn't that be confusing talent with being a genius?

I don't really think it comes naturally, not completely. I would say it has something to do with interest and curiosity, when it comes to discoveries for example, enough of them to go after things, know how they work, why they work and what's behind everything. when it comes to inventing perhaps it's more of the other way round, you're trying to search for what's best, for whatever you have in mind, to use it to finish a project. Not to mention that in both cases hard work, persistence and patience are needed to really reach anywhere and of course, knowledge.

I think there are many types/forms of intelligences and hence many of geniuses, however in some fields they are only known or acknowledged by those working in the field itself than anyone outside it, for normal people outside the field wouldn't perhaps be interested or wouldn't judge correctly for they wouldn't know much about it.

I would say that perhaps geniuses are somehow like philosophers in one thing. They see something that most people don't, although they both might have been in the same situation or place. perhaps it comes from the knowledge of the matter enough to recognize its specialness or an interest or curiosity in something enough to go after it or perhaps they're more connected with their minds and their surroundings or perhaps they work harder and more patient and insistence than any of us or perhaps it's some or all the above. or none. I wouldn't know.

This is tough to define. My first response is to say that I think genius requires a natural ability to think creatively and see connections. There's some sort of deep, instinctual knowledge of balance and "arrangement," that genius seems to capture, whether in mathematics or art or writing. I think the people that I would name as geniuses have the ability to apply that natural talent to their work in the world. I think that first part is important, because I would hesitate to say that someone who, say, studied for years to be a highly proficient painter would necessarily be a genius. Maybe a master would be a better word.

I'm thinking of reading philosophy - some philosophers are masters of this kind of cold, architectural, proficient writing. The ones who feel like they have a touch of genius are the ones who make it read like art. Geniuses are the people who wade into the most difficult questions we know of, and can manage to walk in them elegantly.

Maybe I am a genius ...pissing people off comes very natural to me

Very nice Sibby...you complete me.....I mean my thread.

*furrows brows in mock introspection*