What you think?

Michael, sperm does not move on instinct or purpose. It reacts to chemicals within the female. Just like everything in your body (including every tap of your fingers on your keyboard), it can be reduced to chemical reaction.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spermatazoa

Sibyllene, I'm talking about the known universe, of course. I don't think scientists would be surprised. They'd be proud.

Approaching the egg cell is a rather complex, multistep process of chemotaxis guided by different chemical substances/stimuli on individual levels of phylogeny

N.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stimulus_(physiology)

When a stimulus is applied to a sensory receptor, it elicits or influences a reflex via stimulus transduction.

Those tadpoles exibit a sensory receptor that has taken millions of years to evolve but have a disign

I don't see design, just chance. It seems there's nothing left to do but agree to disagree.

People are scared to admit there isn't some grand plan, because as terror situations show us, humans feel better with a plan, even a shitty one.

It is the same for God.

"I don't see design, just chance. It seems there's nothing left to do but agree to disagree."

We can only imagine our origins
I believe things exist in innerspace no man has seen

Http://youtu.be/6kGN2dcjNUY

http://youtu.be/vR75Y3G8PHA

I have pondered the possibility of outsmarting a parasite through paranormal parallels. The paradox between intelligence and design is natural competition. My paranoia of tiny parasites such as viruses is their ability to work together to consume their host. The topic of what I think inspired me to think of my grandfather and great uncle who pass on after having viral pneumonia. The irony that Linton Nalley died in France where Louis Pasteur studied the structure of micro-organisms and how they organized and this is what was written about this intelligent man after he passed
Catholic observers often said Louis Pasteur remained throughout his whole life an ardent Christian, and his son-in-law, in perhaps the most complete biography of Louis Pasteur, writes:
" Absolute faith in God and in Eternity, and a conviction that the power for good given to us in this world will be continued beyond it, were feelings which pervaded his whole life; the virtues of the gospel had ever been present to him. Full of respect for the form of religion which had been that of his forefathers, he came simply to it and naturally for spiritual help in these last weeks of his life
I think by what I have read that my great great uncle Moses Linton (founder of the first medical journal west of the Mississippi River in 1843 from what I have read also studied the structure of microbes in France
The first substantial educational effort came about under the authority of the Catholic Church, which in 1818 opened Saint Louis Academy, later renamed Saint Louis University.[51][83] In 1832, the college applied for a state charter, and in December 1832, it became the first chartered university west of the Mississippi River.[84] In 1842, it opened its medical school, with faculty that included Daniel Brainard (founder of Rush Medical College), Moses Linton (founder of the first medical journal west of the Mississippi River in 1843), ).

You always bring such interesting information to the table, Michael. These forums would be quite boring without you.

I'll take a look at those videos later. I watched a bit of the first link. I appreciate the approach, that is the identification of spermatazoon as a type of machine. I like to think that our bodies (as well as any other organism) are machines...although there is a big difference between organic machines and steel machines.

Intelligent design does have a few great points, but I still don't see it as the work of an omniscient being. Perhaps some sort of intelligent lifeform - a species that somehow uncovered the secrets to manipulating the building blocks of organic material just as we have with steel and silicon. As much as I enjoy entertaining the idea, I am still highly against practicing it in any sense other than a philosophical one.

You are very thought provoking and these discussions/debates have inspired me to write many poems. I keep an open mind on pantheism which was heresy along with the heliocentric theory in the dark ages and believe questioning every thing is good. One of my heroes is Giordano Bruno after being burned at the Vatican has as statue there in his honor

May the force be with you also Kevin

Pantheism is a metaphysical and religious position. Broadly defined it is the view that (1) "God is everything and everything is God

Intelligent design! Ha!

This world is so badly designed for us you'd need to take the "intelligent" part out.

The world is very perfect, though. It's merely our problems with ourselves that make it bad.

Some of the most memorable times in my life did not depend on the state of the art technology

http://youtu.be/CJakYmgtrDA

This ones for you Kevin

http://youtu.be/FFvE9D3zMfY

"The world is very perfect, though. It's merely our problems with ourselves that make it bad."

You think so mon ami? The world is pretty amazing, and both of those things but it's far from perfect. From an engineering and designer point of view, it's actually pretty terrible for us as a species.

Massive area's of it are too hot or too cold to be easily lived upon. Most of it is covered in water we can't drink and again, not easily habitable. Huge sections are so far from being flat, again not suitable for building or living. Throw in how dangerous habitated area's are due to hurricanes, tornadoes and earthquakes/tsnami's and you may start to wonder if perhaps, on second glance there is a bit of a design flaw going on. It might, if you are especially open minded give you pause to consider this planet isn't designed for us, it just is. We have, along with every other living thing evolved to adapt to this planet, flawed as it is.

: )

I love this planet, and I understand how special and rare it is as we look out at the known universe wondering if we're alone. However, you can't get away from the fact if a real designer and engineer, a very flawed human designer and engineer sat down to design a planet custom made for humans..it would be drastically different from the one we have now.

A child could design a better planet for us than God has.

ps Mike..thanks for that..here is one for you old bean.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1i8s245jxRE&feature=fvwrel

Point well taken. I wasn't really thinking about it from that perspective. Although to be fair you can't have a planet full of animals and have it built perfectly for only one. All of the temperatures and weather conditions do help to sustain other types of life quite nicely. Those mountains may not be suitable for us, but they are riddled with other species. Natural disasters are just natural population control. It's pretty perfect in my eyes but yes, I do see where you're coming from.

I look at it a bit differently, though. I see all of our 'man made' adaptations as being just as much a part of nature as anything else. Like any other creature on the planet, we have adapted and learned to use our environment to our advantage. It isn't as though the earth is without the materials that allow us to sustain life.

A bit radical I know, but if you strongly believe in evolution you should keep an open mind about this.

Thank you kevin from the first time I looked past cloud nine Ihave known there is a star for me

"If you like being a slave to a celestial dictator, sure go ahead and believe in God.

I prefer to put my faith where it matters.

In people, education, art, science and love."

Knowledge beauty thechnology and nature have been personified as many times as Love, yet my God has had a stigma placed om Him
http://youtu.be/y7RIuukDINc

I've wanted to believe, I've even tried to believe but I just can't. To each their own I guess, I just can't believe in something thats a myth blown way out of proportion, let alone no proof what so ever. I refuse to believe that some almighty being pointed his finger and wham, life is created.

It seems that Kevin and I have been debating this issue for almost seven years and I will admit there was a time I had doubt whether he admits he once had faith or not.

I love this thread. A debate without hate.

"I don't think you have to have religion to be good. In fact I think people take it so overboard you get the hypocrites and "bible thumpers" that make people who are spiritual look bad. One thing my church preaches is to just love each other, be loving, but also don't allow acidic people in your life (love them from a distance).

I think Mike made a great point with there is a difference with God and religion now. Another thing my pastor says is to stop being religious, this isn't a religion thing, it's a God thing. There is definitely a huge difference.

That being said, I know plenty of people who believe in God who are crappy people, and plenty of people who don't believe in God (or believe in another higher power) who are great people. A bad person is going to be a bad person until they want to be good - no amount of atheism, other higher power, or God is going to change that. It's the invidivuals will, so for people to say you have to believe in God to be a good human being is ridiculous."

Couldn't agree with you more, Britt!

That's all for now, folks, but I'll toss in a few opinions later.

There is no doubt that religion has been abused and God has been abused by religion . It seems ironical that so many still have their hands out for the currency that has "In God We Trust" printed on it yet in this country that judges leaders and court witnesses are still required to take Oathes to swear to tell the truth the whole Truth and nothing but the truth" so help them God"

The only being I listen to about God anymore is Philosoraptor!

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/36ixvj/

http://i.imgur.com/8S5F1.jpg

To the first link it would depend on which of man's laws we are talking about

To the second the immortal soul is invisible

Quick follow up on the point of how "perfectly" designed, we and our world is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJfqmZ0cuek&feature=player_embedded

I recommend an amazing lecture by Lawrence Krauss about how the universe can only exist if it was made out of nothing.

Best line in his lecture for me anyway was "So forget Jesus, the stars died so you could be here today."

Lawrence Krauss:

Richard Finemen used to go to people and say "you won't believe what happened to me today" people would say "what?" He would reply "Absolutely nothing" Humans believe everything that happens to us is special and rare. Physics tells us that the universe is big and rare events happen all the time including life and that doesn't mean it's special.

His lecture on "A Universe From Nothing" can be watched in the link below I implore you to watch it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7ImvlS8PLIo

Carl Sagan says it right.

http://youtu.be/wupToqz1e2g

"The Divine Book"

It's a video that proves the existence of God and that everything which humans know is written in the Quran (fertilization process: from sperm cell recognition of the oocyte .... till implantation of embryo in uterus.... and many other cited proofs of mathematical equations....). The video also sheds light on the relation between Judaism, Christianity and Islam... historical facts... biological facts... in picture, sound, and numbers. When I watched the video... I was like... O-O ...

Here is the link, the video is of 10 parts. This is the 1st part:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsmrOvWIhKA

Humanity has been searching for the reality of God's existence for centuries, and you think that collection of video's has the proof?

Are you for real?

I stopped watching when I realized it was just a pro Islam video, with no serious "proof" or evidence based thinking.

Islam is a rip off religion, sorry. Christianity was a rip off of Judaism and Islam is a badly reworked rethinking of them both. All 3 of them are taken from Egyptian faith systems.

"I think what God meant to say was......"

The video presents a good message of unity among humankind, but it certainly doesn't prove anything. The video even missed the fact that Jesus probably didn't respond in Hebrew when he was spoken to.

"Islam is a rip off religion, sorry. Christianity was a rip off of Judaism and Islam is a badly reworked rethinking of them both. All 3 of them are taken from Egyptian faith systems."

Kevin, you always sound so hateful when you say these things. Where's the "people, education, art, science and love?"

"Kevin, you always sound so hateful when you say these things. Where's the "people, education, art, science and love?"

I have come to believe he is using one hundred percent

http://home.ix.netcom.com/~suzumi/badmedicine_ch1.pdf

Sigmund Freud regarded conscience as originating psychologically from the growth of civilisation, which periodically frustrated the external expression of aggression: this destructive impulse being forced to seek an alternative, healthy outlet, directed its energy as a superego against the person's own "ego" or selfishness (often taking its cue in this regard from parents during childhood).[52] According to Freud, the consequence of not obeying our conscience is guilt, which can be a factor in the development of neurosis; Freud claimed that both the cultural and individual super-ego set up strict ideal demands with regard to the moral aspects of certain decisions, disobedience to which provokes a 'fear of conscience'.[53]wiki

Kevin, I cannot answer you now that you haven't watched the 10 parts!

And regarding your beliefs.. I respect them though they are very, very hateful and venom-rimmed. but anyway...

Maybe the introduction is a pro Islam... but, when you complete it till the very end, you will know what I mean as there are scientific proofs,,,, oh wait, you haven't seen them yet in the video:

The big bang
Reproduction
Light
Sea Wonders
.... etc

^ all cited in the Quran ... this divine book, which most westerns think that it was written by a man in the middle of .... a desert.

"all cited in the Quran ... this divine book, which most westerns think that it was written by a man in the middle of .... a desert."

So where do you think it was written? Qur'anic Arabic is a relatively young language, in which case it was most certainly written by humans...if there is even any question of there being a 'divine' language. Are you saying that the Vedas (which are much older than the Qur'an) were written by gods, too? Where do we draw the line?

I know that not many will take an hour or even fifteen minutes to get the gist of the link below
http://www.urantia-gaia.info/2012/01/09/lexceptionnel-temoignage-danita-moorjani/#more-3530

I believe it is human nature to draw lines and divide into borbers much like ant colonies
Though it is unlikely that any ant cares even a little about how its species came to be

The woman in the above link at least believes in another dimention where time is linear.

Our egos many times believe that we know all we need to know while using an Occam's razor on the order needed to keep evolution progressive lest we regress to our apelike ancestors

I don't believe my bible says anywhere that creation ended on the sixth day

Where science draws the line new creations will cease only in our dimention

The claim that the cosmos has more than the four dimensions we can perceive -- that is, three spatial dimensions plus time -- is exotic enough. But the quest to prove that claim brings in a virtual menagerie of mysteries: mini-black holes and dark matter, gravitational waves and cosmic inflation, super-high-energy particle collisions and ultra-powerful gamma-ray bursts.

If I sound hateful of Islam, that is because I believe it is a very hateful and dangerous religion, if not the most dangerous and hateful religion.

Imagine if the Westboro church had millions of members all over the world, instead of one inbred family.

I am also really sick of the extremists using the democracy and freedom of speech the Uk affords them to shout hateful nonsense in the streets of London about how they are going to take away democracy and turn the UK into a Sharia law run Muslim state. Of course it will never happen, we haven't even accepted Christian laws here, but they are slowing down progress and it pisses me off.

If I sound hateful of Islam, that is because I believe it is a very hateful and dangerous religion, if not the most dangerous and hateful religion.

^ You really think so...??

- The 1,000,000 Algerians Dead during French Invasion
- Palestinians are dying in tons from 1948 till now
- Iraqi people also
- Afghanistan
- Shishan
- Hiroshima and Nagazaki Bomb

and so many to be mentioned....

LMFAO ..... if you really want to talk about hatred and dangerousity, you should look at your western glassy facade... which would sooner or later be broken, dear Kevin.

See history: Kingdoms rise.. Kingdoms fall.. Kingdoms rise.. and fall again.

"If I sound hateful of Islam, that is because I believe it is a very hateful and dangerous religion, if not the most dangerous and hateful religion."

I'm not inclined to believe in any religion really nor to defend them. But I am inclined to talk about global politics.

I believe the most "dangerous" religion on the planet is governance. This thing people call democracy seems to be the biggest killer in the world and was in the 20th century. 400,000 + people in Iraq, more conflict around the world in the spread of democracy. Ideals no matter where they come from can be dangerous, when put in the "wrong" hands.

We should really look at why people with certain views start becoming dangerous. When you have the whole of NATO bombing any country that is a third world nation that doesn't believe in the same thing you do. You're going to draw a conclusion. When you watch a wedding full of your friends get bombed by a drone then called civilian casualties or watch a killing squad kills your kids. Things are going to change and you're going to turn to something that makes sense to you. That being Islam/muslim it's whoever puts out that helping hand.

How about instead of crying over what religion is full of hate we just stop thinking as people as groups and hold people accountable as individuals? Religion and politics is not an excuse to kill no matter the circumstance.

But my religion says not to kill, but I see your point.
We are humans and we should help each other. We shouldn't really care if others believe in the same religion or if they believe in one, what we should care is about a positive outcome. Hmm.. So sharing our opinions is not bad as long as is done respectful and with the right attitude. But we also need to be open minded and try to understand how others think because often times we might have the same conclusion but the way we express our opinions may distort our message. Base on what I have read, I think that everyone is looking for the same: answers and a peace.

LP if you were born in the West to a christian family you would be a christian..

what does that tell you about religion...?

Misread* edited.

If I sound hateful of Islam, that is because I believe it is a very hateful and dangerous religion, if not the most dangerous and hateful religion.

man Kevin, I don't like to label anything you say ignorant, Because you seem to be like a very intellectual man, But brother, Look @ what you have just said, take a sigh and read it again, Honestly, Wouldn't you label it as ignorant?
I mean I'd assume that if you have came to such a conclusion, then you have made a huge research about it, But show me some proof to what you claim, If you studied or even read a thing about Islam you'd realize That Islam, on the contrary is a religion that isn't about spreading hate, It's one of our virtues to spread peace upon the world, But then again i'm pretty sure you haven't read anything, you just came to the conclusion that Islam is a hateful religion because you listen to your media, and your media has done nothing but brutilze and dehumanize Islam for centuries.

I remember watching John McCain talking to the american nation once, and there was this middle aged white woman that objected to Obama by saying, But no He's an Arab, which was very obvious to everyone that by Arab she meant his Religion, because back then everyone thought Obama is a Muslim for some kind of ode reason. Which brings me to McCain's response . . . "No, he's not, ma'am, he's a DECENT family man." As if being an "Arab"or "Muslim" disqualifies a man from being a decent family man.

What I like to argue is that Islamophobia is far more widespread and accepted. Can you imagine if white people blatantly still said such horrible things about black people? It's completely unheard of in many parts of the west for someone to say "The N word," but "sand....."? In many places that's totally cool,

My main point Kev is that you cannot base your judgment on one sect from what you think you know about them, not all 10 of ur fingers are alike.
The moment you realize that then you and John McCain and that lady that posed that question won't have that same thing in common, Which is a Brainwashed mind that clearly thinks Islam is shelter for world terrorism when it isn't

no dis repct meant bro. that comment just ticked me tbh

There is no doubt that the world would be a much better place to be if there was no religion of any description, what so ever..

And no one can dispute that.... not one!

True Nicko
very true.

Hey Ryan, who are you? Come over.

RSJ, I'm not a brainwashed media junky, in fact I actively dislike most common media outlets and certainly don't take my cues on important issues from crapfests like foxnews etc.

If you could kindly point me towards a reliable source of information that details women's rights under Islam, or perhaps the general atttitudes of the scholars who administer the Sharia laws regarding apostates, jews, adoption, homosexuals etc, I'd be very happy to read it.