Weekly Contest: Final Changes 2

"Focusing on the contest, we have the following set up on the judging now. Judges must vote by Saturday and send their comments by Sunday. This method allows the coordinator time to alert the mods if a stand-in or a tie-breaker is required.

In order to level the field, and following through on an idea from the several threads, the nomination tool is disabled for Saturdays & Sundays. By taking this step, the judges do not have to worry that a better poem will be nominated after they have voted. No other restriction on nominations is imposed. If you find a poem on the weekend that appears worthy to you, simply save it to your favorites and nominate it Monday.

This step is the final one that will be taken so that we can let things settle down, see how it works out, and some time later decide what, if any, adjustments need to be made.

I know there will be some poems that you discover that will be exactly old enough not to be qualified by Monday. That means that under the previous set-up these poems would have been on the nomination page for two days at the most.

Conversely, many of you asked for the nominations to be open only for a few days at the start of the week. The actual change is not so radical. We're taking baby steps.

I realize some of you will be upset. I know that we seem to have gone far down the path of change, perhaps alienating many of you at one time or another. Please bear with us. The intent of these changes is to further the purposes of the contest. It allows the judges to select poems that reflect the best the site has to offer, recognize excellence and build the community. At the same time, it provides that a human and not the site will effect any tie-breaking duties, while not affecting the broad range of choice open to nominators.

Pre-nominators are still provided with the means to earn the nomination tool. These criteria directly reflect the care they should be able to take in selecting poems, and only the first method has been affected:
-writing at least 10 insightful or constructive comments that are praised,
- being chosen as favorite by at least 20 people and having at least ten poems,
- writing 100 poems while maintaining at least a 4.2 rating.

Feedback is still welcomed, be it passionate or not, but please avoid swipes at individuals who state their own mind. You can attack me all you want, if it helps; I'm Irish, I'm used to it."

-Larry

----

It seems like the majority of members think we could do without Favorites and # Poems as factors in achieving Nominator Status.

It also seems that the majority of members would like a Praised Comment reset that does not delete past Praises, but starts us all at ground zero with [x] Praises required to gain or regain Nominator Status.

DISAGREE.

Why should we start from zero?

this means that like half a year from now, when you change the number of praised comments again, you'd reset again?

It doesn't make sense.

So my "vote" doesn't get lost.

I DISAGREE with a reset to zero

I DISAGREE with doing away with the other two requirements to gain "Nominator Status".

I disagree with being chosen as a favourite poet by 20 people.The criteria is subjectivity. It makes no sense.Popular members with 20 friends will be nominated fast.

"It seems like the majority of members think we could do without Favorites and # Poems as factors in achieving Nominator Status.--"

I can do without favorites, I agree with Karla. It's easy to add favorites to your list, especially now that we have the ability to add as many as we want.

"It also seems that the majority of members would like a Praised Comment reset that does not delete past Praises, but starts us all at ground zero with [x] Praises required to gain or regain Nominator Status."

This I don't really care about, I'll go with majority. It doesn't bother me one way or the other.

LP, there's no need to ever do another reset, even if the praised-comment requirement increases, since the standards would remain the same.

The only reason for a reset now is because the standards for a praised comment were so subjective (and low) in the past.

^As Kiko says.

Right now in the mod rooms we're having a discussion about praised comment quality, just to make sure we're all on the same page about what's praiseworthy and not. Some of that is subjective, of course, but we can at least have some rough guidelines.

But again... when more people gain the nominator status, thus increasing poems on nominated list, and when newbies come to the site, those newbies would demand to reset them for fairness.,,,. so the point would be worthless of resetting it now because the thing would be repeated for granted

Sib - there was something worked up in the members forum of members' suggestions as to what would be considered praiseworthy... maybe that has the specific "guidelines" that mods used to go by, and you could revamp if needed?

Yeah, that's the general kind of "minimum" rule that we go off of. But sometimes I see something and I'm like "how did that get approved?" I'm sure someone has thought that of some of mine, too. So it would be nice to have a discussion about it, and see where we're at.

I get you sib.
you mean when the personal comment (without copying the poet's lines) is relatively short.

But even with being short, it can be related to one of the three guidelines of praising.

Here are the praising guidelines that I always look at

--Offer an insight into the meaning of the poem from the point of view of the reader, or what they thought the writer was aiming for.

--Offer advice, politely put, about how to potentially improve or alter the poem.

---Express the personal feelings of how the piece made the reader react, which should be more varied than the standard empty response: "Hey good poem, love it, good work".

---Write any kind of response, not covered by the above examples, that has some point to it, something of worth of interest that is linked to what the author wrote.

All authors should be entitled to their own opinion
on a comment, if the author didn't feel the comment was praise worthy I don't get why an outsider has to come and do it.

bottom line..

authors mind your own comments. okay.

"if the author didn't feel the comment was praise worthy I don't get why an outsider has to come and do it.

because the reader thought the comment was praise worthy..

"the reader" is here to read poetry right? not comments.

I find it slightly annoying when someone praises a comment left on one of my poems, but I understand the gesture is meant to be positive, so it's fine.

I guess we should start a thread for voting before this turns into one, though a voting thread will likely turn into a debate thread :) Lol

The reader is a reader lol

so it can read whatever he/she wants and if the reader wants to read the comments to see if they understood the same as the one that left the comment then he/she can do so.

am I wrong?

So if the reader sees the comment and they thought the same as the other reader then they can praise the comment.. this is one example for praising other people's comments when they were unpraise by the poet. There could be many reasons.

But in any case, a reader can read anything. :)

Lol Everlasting the way you describe that makes me think of a "like" on facebook. I get what you mean though. I am with Jane, I get a little irked when I see someone else did it, but in the end so long as I get to read the comment myself I don't care. :)

"a reader can read anything. "

indeed, but not go around praising what's not their own... hahah

waw, maybe we need a "praise" status too..
since people feel big enough to go praise on things that aren't their own.

JOKE GAIS..OBVIOUS JOKE.

don't eat me.

Haha...

don't worry, I'm not a cannibal.

But I don't find anything wrong in praising comments that the poet didn't find worth praising..After all, the one's praising the comments are not seeking anything in return, at least that's what I think and at the end the mod's team are the one's deciding if the comment if praise-able or not.

So I don't think we need a praise status.. lol
That might incite people praising comments at all times.

Though, even when I haven't experience the same as Britt, I see her point.

I agree with you Everlasting.If you praise somebody else's comment, it proves your willingness to show your fellow poet that his/her comment is worth reading.I think it has a name:kindness.

I have a suggestion: if the poet considers the comment not praiseworthy, s/he has to state why and support his/her point of view.

^Don't worry about other readers praising comments. They are just showing their appreciation of what the writer wrote in that comment. But, you can always ask the comment writer to leave another/duplicate one on the same poem for the poet to praise if he/she wishes to (it is possible to do this easily, and . Some people do not bother praising what was a really nice in depth and appreciative comment on their poem (ask Y...), because they do not want that specific reader in their commenting/friend circle, perhaps. :) Just remember this is a website open to all members, so if the comment is non-offensive and appreciative, anyone who gets their first should be able to. Perhaps ask Janis to allow multiple praises (like multiple nominations) on the same praise...easy for him to do.
Good comments can be sometimes as precious as the poem! Not only it warms the heart of the poet, it gives an inner warmth to the writer

Guys, IMHO you're Way over complicating things. We shouldn't have to micromanage the site. Tolerance & appreciation could do wonders.

Edit

^ oh Larry..I love your posts.

"authors mind your own comments. okay." Lol

I agree with yaki, and do relate to Jane's and Britt's feelings toward having someone else praising the comments left on my work, especially when praised before I even get the chance to read them. Happened like a couple of times, and I knew by mistake that an X person left me a comment, because once praised before being read by the author, it doesn't appear on the account news anymore [ i wonder if Janis can do something about that]

However if I shall be honest, I used to praise comments left on other peoples work, if felt like...it's worth it!

So I'm in between, can't take a side regarding this. It depends, I guess.

Thanks Karla and A lost soul

But I think, it will be better if we agree on what is praisable and what's is not.
As for me, I like the praising guidelines that we already have and I mentioned them in the other comment.

In either case, praising the comments is not exactly the issue here rather about not getting a notification when they have a comment, right? because someone else praise it and the computer automatically thinks that poet read the comment thats why the poet is unaware of that comment.

So yeah, that's something thats need to be fix.
that way the problem will be solve.

and everyone can continue praising the comments that they think are worth praising.

"if the author didn't feel the comment was praise worthy I don't get why an outsider has to come and do it."
_______________________________

It really doesn't matter who praises a comment, since all praised comments must be approved by the mods.

It irks me just as much to see a good comment go un-praised, as it does to see a good poem go un-nominated.... especially when they're my comments and my poems. ;p

It happened to me too. I didn't get to see the comment until someone else commented on it and I went there and saw the other comment. It was a nice surprise but it shouldn't happen.

I guess if someone praises a comment on another person's poem - maybe they see something that is worthy on that comment that the owner of the poem may not have seen. I guess what I am saying is people see things differently - doesn't make them right or wrong it's just how it is. That's why some mods may accept to praise a comment and others may not.

I think the important thing is to ensure that the owner of the poem does not miss the comment itself due to someone else praising it and then it just disappears.

Maybe people should see the date in which someone posted a poem and if it was just posted and you find a comment worth praising, stop to think that they may not have time to read it to praise it themselves. If it was posted a few days ago and there is a comment you think worth praising go for it.

At least that way people have a chance to praise their own comments but also not leave praised worthy comments unnoticed.

So...no nominations over the weekend..ie Saturday/Sunday? I'm assuming that's the p&q time zone we are talking about....I get so confused with this time thing...it's already Saturday in Australia haha!

Lol Saturday and hot!!!

and hungover lol

I think that PnQ is on east coast time in the US...which would be 10:47pm now. If I did that right before.

It would be really nice if we have "pnq" time clock that wasn't military time.

Not a good combination Lioness haha!!! Double dehydration level :)

<<< Yes, I see the time now haha!!! So...really, this means I still have 1 hour to nominate but it will be late on Monday before I can nominate again? I hate these damn timezones sometimes...so confusing LOL!

It would be be great if they could have the clock shown on site too

I know there are time stamps but I mean an actual time on the top right or something

Lol I have the air on at the moment to cool me down.

Plus I'll drink something to keep me hydrated lol

More alcohol perhaps? lol kidding

Oh..now I see how this works. The little box for nominating has disappeared right now so no one can nominate until Monday...right?

That's correct, Hellon.

Whenever I'll see a praisweorthy comment, I'll praise it.... I don't care if someone sees that or not because one should regularly check the comments of him/her.

It's just for fairness.

Umm...to be honest...I normally never look at the previous comments on any poem...don't like to be influenced in any way. I doubt I've praised a comment on someone elses poem in my life....

*edit

and this is not a new issue...I brought this up years ago when this feature was first introduced. I had two issues then and ....I still have them now...

1) As stated by other members, as well as myself, it irks me when someone else praises a comment that I haven't had a chance to read.

2) It more than irks me to find people reading and praising a comment when they don't leave a comment themselves. Is there a whole new group of people out there just praising comments to gain...well...I didn't really know what it was all about back then but...I sure as hell do now!

What if that person doesn't have the ability to log in, or due to time zones it gets praised while they are sleeping? That doesn't seem right to me.. which is whyyyyy Janis needs to just hurry up and fix the issue, so people praising others' comments wont be a problem :)

And...just to add to my other post further up...I know I suggested putting a time frame on when we can and cannot nominate and..I do see why, from the judges point of view, it will be easier for them when they have to judge over the weekend when we now have this cut off but...when I made this original suggestion I was concerned about members using there three nominations on day one (Monday)...I now fear this will escalate and members will get frantic because they were unable to nominated over the weekend...just a concern I thought I's bring up...lets see what happens over the next few weeks?