Delicious... but..!!

Hellon: "When you see what they eat in some countries....dogs, cats, snakes, crickets etc....the old Big Mac doesn't seem so bad to me LOL!"

I personally have never knowingly eaten cat. Yes to the rest.

I am with Jane on this one.
Abed, there is nothing wrong with your understanding of what your God permits you, and hence I will not criticize that either. But, as a Moslem living in the modern era, if you critically analyze the basis of ultra orthodox preachings, you will note that eating meat was permitted in your faith under adversity only.
Please read this article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism_and_religion

Remember, God is only one, it is his creations who fight and misinterpret his word all the time and create wars in the name of their mistaken belief's. Wise is the man who can understand his brother's and sisters....without hurting or ridiculing their feelings, or belief's . No wonder I chose to quote Leo Tolstoy, for his insightful thought.

Until I have time to come back from work and write a fuller post.
Peace be with you all, As-Salamu Alaykum , Om Shanti

^LAB GROWN MEAT: Yep, as Jane said, it will be a real option in the future> Beginning this year! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_vitro_meat
Choices perhaps: tank steak, sci fi sausage, petri pork, beaker bacon, Frankenburger, vat-grown veal, laboratory lamb, synthetic shmeat, trans-ham, factory filet, test tube tuna, cultured chicken, or any other moniker that can seduce the shopper's stomach -- will appear in 3-10 years as a cheaper, healthier, "greener" protein that's easily manufactured in local factories, not slaughterhouses.
In-Vitro Meat will be 100% muscle. It will eliminate the artery-clogging saturated fat that kills us. It will be grown in plant based laboratory media (culture media on large scale, like in a nuclear reactor), where the stem cells are directed to produce myoblasts (embryonic muscle cells), which multiply, fuse and produce muscle only, without the need to produce a whole animal and then slaughter it for meat. So no need to kill a living animal with a "living thinking brain." Lot healthier too, as you can hybrid it to have more omega3 than fish oils if needed and eliminate the pork/lard (cholesterol rich stuff).

"Who has your brain Jane? Who can write like you do? Who can log in to PnQ like you do?
I mean it doesn't need a scientist to prove so..."

Abed, what do you think makes an animal the most important? Intelligence?
We are the most destructive animal on the planet. We are the animal who lives least in harmony with nature. Our intelligence makes us great, but it also makes us cruel. And is it not stupid to destroy the earth that nurtures us?

"the Quran"

... was written by a man. Case and point.
Until God comes to me in my waking state and tells me not to worry about the little people (animals) because they are here to nourish me, I'm not going to live my life by an ancient book written by a man whom I'll never meet. I respect animals and try to do right by them because, in my heart, it feels right. I believe the Christian God tells something along the lines of humans being the shepherds of the world's herds. I get that. To me, that means it is our responsibility to take care of the earth and its living creatures. We will be held accountable for our actions.

"See, if you need lab meat, then originally, you need real meat."

Your points are getting less grounded. Meat is not being created in a lab because we "need" meat. It's being created in a lab so humans can continue eating meat, since they choose to, and like to... lab meat means no harm will come to animals. We can stop mass breeding them, tormenting them, and destroying the environment and atmosphere with their excess.

"Why should I listen to some woman whose hot nudity is exposed publically on PlayBoy covers?"

Don't listen to Pamela Anderson then. Listen to the millions of others who follow the same path.

"Also, in the Quran, God blessed us with eating poultry, beef, fish...... except pigs, donkeys, and fangs having animals eating other animals...."

These are wild caught animals being eaten. Animals eating other animals, it is either because they are carnivores and need meat to survive, OR, because they are omnivores and need to substitute meat when it is available as a means for subsistence.
These are all things I'm OK with. I'm even ok with humans eating meat for pleasure, as long as the animals are not tortured, and are given some ounce of dignity in life and in death.
Factory farms are like hell on earth.

We try to eat meat we kill ourselves (so much leaner, don't have to strain any fat/oils/grease). No amount of torture, there. I feel weird saying this, but they don't even know it's coming to them. I feel like that should be a bad thing, but it's probably not as terrible as torturing the animal.

Except for chicken. I can't eat chicken I raise, they became my pets (their eggs, sure).

No disrespect to people that have farms but I couldn't work on one that killed animals - I'd get to attached to them. I guess if you grew up on it it would be quite different because you wouldn't know any other way

I got attached to the lambs that I saw at the Easter Show a couple of years back and I was only in that area for like half an hour lol I knew what would end up happening to it and it was heartbreaking.

I guess because you know what they're like and you would have gotten attached to them it is understandable.

I don't care that people eat meat or chose to be vegetarian, in the end it is the way that the animals are being treated and killed.

To me that is more for concern than eating meat.

It is harder to kill an animal for food when you are confronted with the reality and depth of that animal. That's why I think it's important for people to get back in touch with the relationships we have with all living creatures... it is important to understand our actions. Buying slabs of meat at the grocery store or at a fast food chain - it allows people to forget that the meat belonged to a real, living, feeling thing.
Watching some videos by PETA will help remind you.

I'm not sure if I could spend time with an animal, then kill it and eat it. I don't think I could. I leave that to others. But I refuse to eat meat from an animal that I KNOW was disrespected, abused, and tormented in its life.

Britt, I respect that. In its purest form, the hand that deals the sentence should be the hand that swings the sword... so to speak. We should be held accountable for our actions.

"I don't care that people eat meat or chose to be vegetarian, in the end it is the way that the animals are being treated and killed."

I agree.

Those PETA videos are so OMG

My sis showed me a couple and one of them was the KFC one by Pamela and the other was one where the animals were being used for their Furr skin

Something I am against. The worst is when they're being skinned alive OH my I was crying watching that video

The animals skinned alive, I saw that one. It still gives me nightmares.

These animals are kept in tiny cages out in the boiling sun with no water, then they're snatched out, hung upside down by their feet (sometimes their heads are bludgeoned to try to knock them unconscious, but the pain wakes them back up) and their skin is hacked off while they twist and cry in agony, dizzy and terrified. Then they're thrown on a pile of other skinned, still living animals... so that they can wriggle in agony and dehydration until they die.

Yeah that video is terrible.

The animal that sticks to my mind is the one that looks like a dog and he's trying to twist his head after her was skinned and he couldn't move - he was just all pink and bleeding. The look on the poor things face just broke my heart

Ughhhhhhhh, my stomach hurts.

Don't ever buy real fur, guys, unless it's from a Native American tribe or something, because they kill the animal before skinning it and use pretty much ALL parts of the animal (bones, meat, hide).

Oh god the PETA videos. I've watched alot of PETA videos. From Pinniped to young crocodile off springs. They are tortured to the extreme. Skinned alive, beaten to death. Pinniped were beaten to death with a crow bar sort of tool and dragged talus. Young born ones are stabbed and ripped open alive. It makes you pity/hate yourself for being a part of the human race.

"It will put the lotion on it's body. ... It will put the bottle back in the bucket." -- Silence of the Lambs

The number one defense in an abduction case is to connect with the abductor, since it's harder for them to harm you if they see you as human.

My daughter, Jessica hunts with her bio-dad and we eat venison for the next year. However, last year she raised her first FFA lamb and grew too attached to bear the idea it would be slaughtered. I indulged her & we got the lamb donated to a private school here for their petting zoo. This year she has consciously decided to be professional and is fully prepared for her current lamb to be sold for slaughter in two weeks.

Life is harsh, it need not be cruel. The only way to halt the torture you see in the tapes is to act: find the outlets for these products, refuse to patronize them for anything & let them know why. Vocalize.

"Life is harsh, it need not be cruel."

I think that's an excellent way of thinking about it.

This is actually making me consider my meat buying habits. Well, actually, I don't buy a lot of meat in general, but I'll think about it in the future.

My grandparents have a cattle ranch in South Dakota. I guess I don't know how the cows are slaughtered, but at least I know that they lived good cow lives while they were there. They have several hundred acres of land to roam around on and poop all over, and they're allowed their normal cow socialization of mooing and farting. What makes me saddest is those animals who never have the chance to live their best life before they die.

It brings a huge smile on my face when I see quite a few people ^debating what non-essential slaughter for feeding our tummies really means, what they eat, and why they should or should not kill animals. Think of this way, do all animals (with a thinking brain) not have a right to a free life, in our human eyes, particularly those born and reared in this world for human self indulgence, i.e slaughter. Should they not have an equal right to live freely and not be a part of our optional (not essential !) food chain. Sheep, cows and chicken benefit us by giving wool, milk and eggs.....shouldn't the human race be grateful for these essential products. If we rear them, love them, domesticate them and treat them like our children, why should we have a need to kill them at all? except under adversity (as in the Bible and .....will research and complete later).
By killing them, are we not also showing disrespect for life and its creator (if there is one) itself?
In Hinduism, cow is sacred and no sacrifice can be tolerated, because the scriptures tell them about Nandi (the sacred bull and vehicle/vahana of Lord Shiva, the Creator) and kamadhenu (the sacred cow, grantor of all wishes and desires and mother of all cows.
The point here is that as humans, we have the gift of a unique thinking brain, which can discern what is right and wrong better than most animal brains.
So, though I am not criticizing anyone's choice of what they can eat and what they cannot, I am asking all of us to rethink as we devour our delicious food tonight, as to think about its source, and is it right that it should have been on our dinner table, when we had many other choices. (This is not a religious opinion/preaching either, but a call for introspection)

And, I do have respect for Abed's interpretations above of what is written in the Qur'an. Unfortunately, it is very true that many Moslem's believe that they are not true Moslem's until they slaughter an animal (on Eid al-Adha or "Festival of Sacrifice") and eat meat, a concept, with which they grew up with, that was preached to them. During Eid al-Adha, sacrifices and distributing meat amongst the people, is considered an essential part of the celebration. This tradition alone accounts for more than 100 million slaughtering of animals in 2 days of Eid, (something which animal lovers would be shocked to learn). It is said in Qur'an that God directed Abraham to offer his son as a sacrifice, in is dream - an unimaginable act, but at the last moment he was asked to substitute it with a goat. This tradition to celebrate this festival with an animal sacrifice is borne out of this incident. However, I do not believe that the Qur'an says anywhere that the common Muslim should also sacrifice an animal at Eid, to show his dedication to God. This unfortunate tradition of animal at Eid, in my opinion, is what puts their belief's in direct conflict with Hinduism, Jainism, and Buddhism, and animal lovers.
But are we not all children of the same God? If you were a guest in my house, would you not show respect to the host by not eating something which I consider as sacred. Likewise, if I visited your house, will I not show tolerance to your traditions on Eid, if I had to sit by your side, as a sign of friendship.
Tolerance of one another is a bigger virtue, which is what makes us human, a step above all others in the animal kingdom. We can dispute our Gods, our religions and our teachings to the hilt, but can we not share what is good in each of these. While growing up, I had some very close Moslem friends/families, and not only they respected my friendship with them, they made sure that my vegetarian belief's were not offended. Nor did I disrespect them by not sharing a dinner table with them.
Although, how much I would wish the entire world to be vegetarian, I know it is impossible. But, if this debate can change even a few, I would consider this discussion as being successful. :)

We would only be catalysts participating in the change of anyone's choices, Lonely. The act of doing is up to the individual.

I'm more pragmatic about this. for a start I'm not religious, For me religion is a way to subjugate control and manipulate, power to the few...

Does that mean i don't have values? of course I have values, yet they are not preached to me, they come from within, which i think gives them more strength more meaning, but that's going somewhere else

Most of the livestock that is produced for human consumption is handled in a humane way and killed under controlled guidelines where the animals do not suffer.

Most now days and again i'm talking about Australia the USA and most of Europe, animals are electrically stunned before slaughter, again its monitored closely as all hell will break out if the animals were to suffer

Yes there are places where animals do suffer at the hands of some and recently Australian stopped the export of live cattle to Indonesia because one of the slaughter plants over there were using inhumane methods... there still needs to be a lot of places that need to be educated.

As for me i'm an animal lover as well and can't bear to see animals suffer. Yet I'm a meat eater, food is one of the great pleasures in life, hell there's umpteen cooking shows on TV every day, more cook books that you can poke a stick at, so I'm not alone. But its personal choice, we were designed to eat meat, I can't pop an iron tablet instead of have a steak, no way.

"Most now days and again i'm talking about Australia the USA and most of Europe, animals are electrically stunned before slaughter, again its monitored closely as all hell will break out if the animals were to suffer"

Electrically stunning animals that go to the meat market is incredibly expensive. Law only requires that animals be "stunned" before they are hacked to bits, and this is very loosely regulated... rarely enforced. The most common means of stunning animals at factories is by thwacking them in the head with a club or by grabbing them by their feet and beating their heads against the ground. And this is more done out of obedience of the law, not with any moral intention for the animals... which means, if the animal still appears to be conscious when you start slicing its flesh away, it's not your fault - you at least tried to knock it out, right?
The bitter truth.

From the web:
"The Humane Slaughter Act simply requires that animals be rendered insensible to pain before they are harvested."
And this is not enforced by the federal government... there have been instances when proof was given of, for example, the hacking off of hooves of cattle that were conscious.

If you don't believe what's written on paper, see it with your own eyes. It's very easy to find videos. I'm not going to post any, however, because they are far too graphic.

The most common means of stunning animals at factories is by thwacking them in the head with a club or by grabbing them by their feet and beating their heads against the ground

that is outlawed here and most countries i would think, electrical stunning happens a lot here..

Unfortunately, Nicko, regardless of how the killing is done, in my book the willing act to kill a living, breathing, thinking, non-aggressive animal primarily reared for poultry is still inhumane. There is litttle to justify the killing of lovely subserving animal, a creation of God, by a more intelligent being, much higher in the evolutionary chain. Regardless of the method chosen, a non-essential killing is still inexcusable, in my humble opinion.