Message to All Members

Hahahaha, my mom is very far-sighted, so in order to look at someone, she has to look above her glasses. She wears them on the bridge of her nose. So quizzical-like.

My dad and I wear glasses too, but we're near-sighted. No looking over the specs on my part.

Actually, I'm almost legally blind. When I lose a contact, I'm useless.

Legally Blind?...is the the sequel to Legally Blonde?

Aha! Noir: Now you know the best time to have gladiatorial contests is friday night when Jane is seeing double (glasses put away, legally blind & legally d....), Larry asleep, sib out on a date, and mel on the beach.

Pssst, just delete the thread by Sat morning.

Larry: Can I adopt some too? So many lovely Poetesses and Poets.

I just noticed that someone's (a brilliant love-poetry writer) account & poems disappeared suddenly, was it a case of beef poisoning, i.e eating too much beef and spewing out toxic mushrooms?
Awww, be nice to her, please. She used to be one of my sparring partner, in the PnQ olympics amphitheater. I will miss her, hope she comes back soon.
And who is going to run the Vocaroo show in her absence? I am missing all the lovely accents and Pocahontas. Maybe Pocahontas can lead the way again. At least something to do for people, when not sharpening the horns (sparring) for the next duel.

^^

Be careful, your words get misunderstood so easily in the virtual world. A harmless joke could be seen as a vicious, racist attack and you'll be talking to yourself the rest of your lonely stay, lol;)

^You got me Ingrid.

"Is a brilliant love-poetry writer"

OR

"beef poisoning"

a racial attack??

From someone who loves to comment on the art of all writers who express from their heart, brilliant, to be recognized or (my favorite's) the special olympic squad.

Is is really?

Perhaps, you meant, people who misunderstand subtleties between a jest and a ridicule.
Just so that you know, "cow" is sacred in my diction/vegetarian/religious belief's.

Perhaps, you meant, people who misunderstand subtleties between a jest and a ridicule

^^^
Yes, this is what I am getting at. Emails and online messages in general are often misunderstood. You could mean well with someone, but because they cannot see your facial expression, or are from a different culture/ have a different background they misunderstand you..and they don't always ask why you said what you said.
(translation: I mean well with you, just wanted to warn you)

Have to get going now, this week I am moving to a new location with my practice.

Thank you Ingrid, for your understanding. As always you are wonderful. Good luck with your physical move, just stay here, don't move away!

I simply loved vocaroo. We could listen to people and their lovely accents. Personally I love my Pocahonta's accent. I am Brazilian. My language is very different from English. I must say Yaki's idea was brilliant. I do think a brilliant idea could only spring from a brilliant writer.

So, the ideas of free speache go to far sometimes. I feel that where we have the freedom to say and do has we please, we need to understand that words and actions may come with punishment. Has kids we are scolded, slaped or grounded for breaking rules, has adults, we are arrested, fined ect for breaking rules. Rules do not take away from freedome, they astablish peace and order. You are not being told not to argue with someone, your are being told to not resort to petty things like name calling and insults. All these things do is show that your level of intelligence is too low to think of and maybe witty retort to a point of veiw you disagree with. Not to metion, you agreed to the rules, so you should be forced to fallow them. If you dont like them, send it up the proper chain to get it changed, leave the site, or deal with it. Im behind the rule, it enforceses good order umongst the site, and hopefully it wasnt an empty promis and the rules really do become more enforced than they have been latly.

As Lonely Soul pointed out there is a subtle line between a jest and a ridicule. I see no difference between a ridicule and a insult. Both are the same. Both will result in an argument or something like that. It is not necessary to resort to name calling to ridicularize someone. If the question here is intelligence, maybe the person who mocks is more intelligent huh. At least s/he could insult and ironize without being impolite. For me it matters not if it is a ridicule or an insult. Both are the same, Rules are meant to be obeyed. The problem is that language is per se a field of misunderstandings.

When a discussion between 2 or more people moves away from the topic, and becomes about the individuals than yes I think the Mods should step in, but it is a fine line.

I have rarely seen a moderator find that balance properly so as to not stifle the discussion (hello lock city) but also move the focus away from "he said she said" back into "well the evidence etc etc".

If I see a discussion about gay marriage, or religion or any other hot topic, and people are making posts that have nothing to do with the topic and everything to do with each other, then yeah...Moderate away.

Yes, Kevin, you nailed it.

However, every mod has their own style and threshold and each of us bring our past to the table.

My own tendency is to let things go as much as possible, stepping in as gently as possible ("Breathe, people.") When I see deliberate baiting it is different, but I must be convinced that is what is really going on.

Perhaps it is because I have raised enough kids to know that harsh words spoken honestly are less damaging than cruel acts made with cold premeditation.

You've been busy hey !

Is he Ronel?

Sigh...

Its really tiring to see the same mallarky under a different name. You may say that this site is doing great and great discussions are abound, but lets face it, most of the threads (and I say 'most' loosely) in the members message forum are locked because everyone apparently have a squabble.

If everyone just said what they wanted to say, and got a little dirty (without going beyond the extreme) while saying it... why punish them...

Unless, there are people out there who actually take offense on critiques on their posts from people they hardly know? And isn't helping enforce that...pathetic?

When I joined the site, everyone spoke their mind, and challenged one another and spoke their view. Because of it, many of the things I previously held as true, weren't...It also made me stronger in a sense as well...

If you want to enforce this rule, by all means please do. But at the end of the day, I call it as I see it: Hypocritical... Because you fought against the same rules you are enforcing.

A shame really...

I think mods go through an individual process of growth and discovery. Only after being a mod for... A year and a half? Have I gotten a good idea of what works, and what doesn't. Of course I'm still learning. The site is not stagnant, so neither should be an approach to moderation.

I don't like locking threads and rarely do it. Penalize the members breaking rules, don't punish everyone by closing the discussion. Unfortunately, lately people don't step out of line when I'm around.

P.S.

Reminder to anyone reading this: We do not allow ALL CAPS in titles of threads or in titles of poems. If we haven't gotten to you yet, we will. Do us a favor and correct it yourself :)

It is also worth mentioning how easy it is to pontificate about "how things should be" when your personal responsibility for maintaining the status quo is zero. In other words, when you have nothing to do with enforcing rules, or dealing with complaints and attacks etc, suggesting different ways to deal with those situations is easy.

You don't have to do it.

We as members also go through growth and discovery also known as conditioned response
Okay there were three old, southern, ladies sitting on a porch swing the day after Valentine's Day. The second asks the first, "What did your husband get you for Valentine's Day?" "Well," the first one says, "My husband bought me this diamond ring." She gets up and shows it off and the second "OOOOHS and AAAAAAHS", while the third says, "Well that's nice." So, then the second one gets up and shows them what her husband got her, a fur coat. So the first "OOOOHS and AAAAAAHS", while the third says, "Well that's nice." So they start swinging and swinging and SWINGING, but the third one never says what her husband got her. Well, the first is getting curious, because if the third got a better gift than her, she was wanting to know. So the first asks, "What did your husband get you?" The third says, "He sent me to charm school." Then second then asks, "Well, what did you learn at charm school?" The third says, "I learned to say that's nice instead of forget you."

It is also worth mentioning how easy it is to pontificate about "how things should be" when your personal responsibility for maintaining the status quo is zero. In other words, when you have nothing to do with enforcing rules, or dealing with complaints and attacks etc, suggesting different ways to deal with those situations is easy."

Ah...By that logic, Bob was right in the past, and you were fighting against him, because you wanted him to be like how you were as a mod...Correct?

It may be easy to complain, but I don't complain unless I see it as it is.

I did it when Bob was a mod, and I will do it now...And lets face it, being a mod is hardly democratic...It is Marxist, at the very least...

I am not sure if all of the mods understand why the old school members bring up the past. We don't know if Janis was being benevolent to the faithful members who have given their time and hopefully were rewarded, or he wanted to see all members grow and discover that we can be a community of individuals and groups

Noir, let's not name names of people who have left already again, every time we did it became nasty with members speaking on behalf of said former members/ mods..this is the here and now and Jane is now a mod and she is doing her best to do this job right. The past is not coming back, not ever, and we have all changed, not just Jane!

It's not a democracy, we can't have a referendum on every moderator action.. But the site and forums can hardly be allowed to become places where people insult each other, drag up older resolved issues, go way off topic on threads and play out dramas. Because that has pretty much what been happening lately to prompt the need for this thread's existence.

Debating your point and stating your opinions rationally is good, and to be encouraged. But not all people seem capable of that so I agree that some rules need to be in place. The moderators generally do welcome the opinions or ideas of members, maybe its not a perfect system but then again what is.. They don't rule with an iron fist

Lol.. Haven't you heard the saying " History repeats"...

You can forget the past but in forgetting you still repeat the actions done by the past... Which is why its very important to learn the mistakes of the past, to reform the future...

And Michael, for heaven's sake... Make Sense

I do love when you weave stories to prove your point, but does it have to be opposite to what is discussed?

But if you did you wouldn't be the ol' lovable Michael...

Colm: Let it be so, let it be a site where what we say can be allowed...I am not arguing that profanities and debasing a members identity be allowed...I am arguing that posts written can be openly scrutinised without fear of penalties...

If someone said that Gay people shouldn't be allowed to marry simply because the bible says so, must be scrutinised... If not, we would be in a world where Santorum is president...

This site may be a microcosm of society, but unlike society, we must hold people accountable for what they say... If you say stupid thing, you must be called out on it regardless of respect... Because as we all know you cannot measure and quantify respect..

The topic is "moderation" my dear poet and when my cousin told that joke in front of my eighty year old aunt, who was a nun for over seventy years, we all blushed because she uesed an F word that in the past was moderated by most mods lol

You can be lovable also when you are not as misunderstood as I am.

http://www.poems-and-quotes.com/discussion/topic.html?topic_id=133089

http://www.poems-and-quotes.com/discussion/topic.html?topic_id=133140

I think if you say something dumb, other people can call you out on it. But that's as long as they are responding to the statement, not the person. If we had heated religious debates, I'd think that was cool (and I know Kevo would love it). When it's not ok is when it stops being about a topic and starts being blatant insults to a person. So instead of "you're an idiot," say "I think your point is stupid, and here's why." In my book, that's fair game. I'm not going to pretend that this place is a democracy, but we do try to keep things fair, and we try to keep an open discussion on how things are run.

So instead of "you're an idiot," say "I think your point is stupid, and here's why." In my book, that's fair game."

Thats all I am asking... I can critique the post not the poster... but if the poster complained that he/she felt disrespected... It could be grounds for a suspension...So the rule in itself is like NDAA, very dangerous if implemented..

Please critique the post I made that made no sense to you Noir

I haven't seen you until now, Noir.
I'm glad I did because I see myself in you. You're definitely right about everything you said... 'history repeats itself' ... and forcing something which previously was fought against ...

though I'd like to share what I have learned in here, two weeks ago.

KISS ASSES, YOU THRIVE

It's kind of like the military. It is also important to know which ass to kiss

Asses are asses
whether camouflaged or skinny dipped

Ok Micheal...

"We as members aslo go the growth and discovery also known as conditioned response"

What does this mean, how is growth and discovery conditioned? How do these two concepts affect behaviour? And when you state "conditioned", do you mean classical or operant?

As for your story, it felt rushed and did not contribute to the theme of this discussion...As for your post explanation of the story, you stated that the word "forget you" was actually F*** you... so really all I get from the ending is a "Huh, after your explanation it became an "Ahh" then quickly turned to "Aww"... in consecutive order

We as members also go through growth and discovery also known as conditioned response

I am sorry for the typos but a conditioned response has everything to do with reward and punishment

Operant Conditioning. Another type of learning, very similar to that discussed above, is called Operant Conditioning. The term "Operant" refers to how an organism operates on the environment, and hence, operant conditioning comes from how we respond to what is presented to us in our environment. It can be thought of as learning due to the natural consequences of our actions.
Every time I tried to find out where I crossed the line when we were placed in the penalty box someone would twist it around as though I could not take the humiliation of being labeled a troublemaker when I felt I was threaten with penaltles the boards became less active as Bob noticed . That is none of my business because there are plenty of unmoderated sites where I can go where the rules are not geared toward submission and the one who submits is latter seen as a wussy

"Asses are asses
whether camouflaged or skinny dipped"

The higher the rank the more brass covers the ass

I'm curious, Abed, what makes someone a kiss-ass? How do they thrive? I would like an honest opinion here.

If a kiss-ass is someone who avoids breaking rules, then you're damn right, they thrive!

I think you have something else in common with Noir. When either of you is let off the hook or gets off easy, all's well. When one of your arch rivals is let off the hook or gets off easy, you're quick as a bullet to cry "wolf."

I can't recall any time either of you has been treated unfairly by the current mods.
The crow calls the raven black.

It's wise for anyone to look at his or her own missteps before pointing out those of others.

I'd be willing to allow that I was probably too harsh on our bygone mods, back in my fiery, rebellious teenaged years. Granted, there were some personalities that I wasn't fond of, and there were some things that I thought were wrong, and I still do. For example, I think what was considered "spam" was silly, and I much prefer how the contest is run now. But that aside, I know I didn't appreciate how hard being a mod would be. I think all of us newbies would agree. I really thought "if I try to do the right thing and act polite, people couldn't possibly have a problem!" My mistake was in assuming that everyone shared one ideal picture of justice and fairness, when in reality everyone is different. I didn't anticipate that I would be getting PMs for nearly every public mod action, saying either "You shouldn't have done that," "you didn't do enough," "how come this person got away with that...?" I get these emails from friends, people who don't like me, and people I don't know at all, hardly. Sometimes I'll get them all based on one thing.

I honestly thought that there would be no reason to ever delete a post that wasn't made by a spam-bot. When I became a mod, I tried that method, crashed, and burned. It seems like we do need some rules in place, or else the whole site starts resembling YouTube comments (you know what I mean, right?). My point is, I know that I didn't appreciate what the mods did back then, and even if there are some ways that I would still disagree with them, it's entirely possible that they were acting in a way that they thought was best for the site. I hope you guys can at least trust that we're trying to do the same. If it's hypocritical for me to change my views on this, well... I'll take it. I'd rather be willing to alter my opinion based on my experience than be so stuck in my ways, I guess.

I agree with all you wrote right there, Sibby, but I think it's important to realize... as a moderator, or as a member, that while it's the same title (moderator), it's a whole different ball game (how things are done now vs. several years ago).

So much has changed with the change of moderators, and for the better. We really have succeeded in many ways in bringing about the freedom and equality that we fought for.
Members have more of a voice.
Members are not targeted by moderators due to personal distaste. If we think we're being biased, we seek opinions of other moderators before acting.
Members are not penalized or suspended easily. It takes quite a lot of rule-breaking!
Moderators do not act single-handedly. We act as a team and vote as a team. In some cases, we will not act unless the votes are unanimous (not just majority).

There are rotations on site judges. The site judges are member nominated and voted on.

The rules are openly discussed and have been added or removed based on opinions of members.

Suggestions for site changes are taken very seriously when poised by members. We've had Janis instill at least several changes thought up by members, not moderators.

Going off topic, especially if it's in a positive or light-hearted direction, is no longer "spam" and does not result in penalties. Even if it's negative, we let it slide... unless the person who posted the thread has other wishes.

We have much higher standards for approving praised comments. Members can even see which mod approved what comment.

There is little room these days to favor ass-kissers and torment rebels. There hardly is such thing as a rebel anymore! We SEEK your alternative ideas. Please voice them, by all means.

To think the moderator regime is identical or even strongly similar to the "old way," just goes to show how easy it is to forget the past and not learn from it.
I wish we could zip back into the past and let everyone have a refresher taste. We might be more appreciative of the present.

This is not the best example, but I don't want to put anyone else on public display. I was suspended from PnQ for 3 days because of this post in 2008:

"Amanda slash all other mods slash everyone,

Please do not presume that disrespecting you is more punishable than disrespecting any other mod or member. Would you really want to ban Mo? I think that would be a mistake. Ahem, -clears throat-, that's not really the purpose of this, right? The purpose is to restore some sense of order and take back PnQ from my club or anyone else bent on dictating how things are run...Because for the last time, we are NOT trying to negotiate and better PnQ for everyone, including mods, we ARE in fact trying to control your minds and make this site our own because we are too mentally incapable to create our own site. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA! I can't stop laughing.

Have a nice day.

I see sweet Ddavid has been silenced :( Love ya, D man!

And what has happened to humor? I think what Mo said was pretty funny, but that's just me. Stop acting like you are untouchable kings and queens. She joked that you are a man because your name sounds like "A man, duh." Listen, Mo has called me much worse :) But I laugh it off."

***

6 months later, I was given 5 penalty points for posting up a poem written by a recently deceased member of PnQ (also my best friend). My club decided to post the poem to honor her memory, and maybe even get it up on the front page... but instead, it was deleted and I was penalized.

I remember misunderstanding the critique of one member that posted above and that member saying he thought my remarks were always condescending. Heck, I did not even know what that meant . I just always enjoyed how Mo had such a charming way of putting folks in their place. lol

Kevin response to someone who threaten me with suspension

I have a quote here from Michael about this issue Bob.

"You know man, I'm not trying to rock the boat, because I love boats, I mean I think I was one of the animals Noah took on his boat...maybe like a Turtle or something..but Bob, poetry is alive like sexual energy..and you know, when I see a thread..sometimes I get all excited and it just flies out of me! I'm not trying to be bad, I want to be good..I want to be on the Ark...Bob, don't tell me I'm one of the animals that isn't aloud on board...I have so much...poetry to give"

I hope this helps Bob.

I love DDavid. I wish he could rejoin PnQ some day because he is a true poet and I am happy he is my friend. I have the honour of reading his pieces every day and it is a blessing.