Islam: What's Your Opinion?

organized religion is made to control a population and set culture laws...

why do you think people leave a religion and start their own...because the other religions rules sucked...

I am Islamic I love my religion. I love the values it holds and adds to my family, the calmness and clarity it brings into my life.
I pray five times a day, and am raising my sons to follow the same traditions.
I feel that the media has brought unnecessary negative attention to Islam and that there are many misconceptions of our values and lifestyle in society.

Here is a copy/paste of some points I would like to make acknowledged...

Misconceptions About Islam - Part 1 - Br. Yahya
Lecture delivered at the University of Western Australia, on February 8th 2003

Introduction

Misconceptions about Islam is a very difficult discussion to have with you - it is such a very large collective topic with hundreds upon hundreds of different issues that we can discuss.

In this multicultural country that we value so greatly, where the basic premise is that you can have more than one culture, more than one faith, more than one religion, who blend together to strengthen each and everyone, it is strange to see that we find those that have been given positions of authority and positions of leadership who are calling to this concept of multiculturalism, saying things, and I quote “Australians will soon realize that multiculturalism was a failed attempt”.

I bring this as an introduction to the concept of Misconceptions about Islam because the same person has also stated in a public release that “Australians are to be very careful when they allow Muslims into their country and into their land”.

Obviously this is an alarmist mentality and it is important for us to analyze what the root causes are and to deal with it. That is the basis of this lecture: what are some of the misconceptions that are thrown at the public, whether it is through the media, whether it is through lack of experience with a Muslim, whether male or female, that puts someone into a state of just being distant and not being able to separate between a faith or a personality of an individual.

The points we will discuss with you today are:

1. We are here and we are here to stay. Its nothing personal, but we as a people - those who believe in the faith of Islam, are part of your society. We are here, and we won’t leave and it’s a fact of life. And we do not push upon you our faith, our reasoning or our logic, but in the same mode it is something where we understand that we have a responsibility to the place where we live, both in morality and in ethics and in following the legal parameters that are set.

2. It is for various reasons that people have migrated to this great country of Australia which we will come back to when we clarify some of those misconceptions.

So it is important for us to set that as a basic premise, we are here and we are a part of your society who are functioning, working, living. 99.9996% of the time you will not see a major difference between ourselves and you in the matters of legislation, laws and the way we deal with one another. There are the odd occasions where you will see that discrepancy in how we interact with one another.

Misconception number one:

1. How the Muslim woman is viewed.

This is something that has been stressed in the past and is continually being stressed both in the media framework and in other avenues.

It is mainly perceived that a Muslim women is down trodden, abused, neglected, has no say, has no rights, she dresses because she is ordered to dress in that way, she is forbidden words like “do not” or always spoken to her “your not allowed” “it is not proper for you” catch phrases that conjure up these images.

I always give the example where you will see a television broadcast of a documentary about “Muslim Women” or “The Women of Afghanistan” or the women in Iran or the women in Egypt or “Behind the Veil”. It will always begin with a type shot, sun setting, blood red sky, the piercing call of the Adhan “Alahuakbar” loud and it zooms or pans out, you see women walking in the far distances, dust swirling all around her, she’s dressed in nothing but black, and then in big bold red letters diagonally “Muslim Women in Islam”, “Muslim Women living in the West”, “The Burqa”. All of these are things that conjure up an animosity and a bias and it is therefore important for me to give you, what it is that we as Muslims actually believe.

First, there is no distinction in the laws of God, in the laws of Allah, in the Quran that separates the actions of worship of a man as being separate from a woman. What a man must do are the exact same acts of faith that a Muslim woman must also do.

Secondly, in regards of rewards and punishment, both in the worldly scene and the hereafter. Reward and punishment are equal. And it is a system of completer equality that is spoken of in the words of the Quran, in terms of rewards and in terms of punishment that are given, by the divine and by the terms of the laws that are instituted in the Quran.

Third, it is also important to note that the Muslim women has free choice, meaning that it is rare to find that there is a framework where it is said to a husband or it is said to father or it is said to a son, or a brother, that you are to force your wife or you are to force your daughter to adopt the covering. Rather that it is given as a personal choice for each and every women based on her nearness to God. And based upon her level of faith in Allah. This does not mean that the dictates of God or Satin. God orders, Allah says, his Prophet says, but as for the compulsion, it is never found. It is something that is separate and it is something that would never be found in the religion and the faith of Islam.

The forth point in dealing with the Muslim women is that we see that the Muslim women in pre Islamic days had been given honor through Islam in a way and in a means and in a short period of time that had not been given to any other women under any other societal orders or system so we see that the first of faiths to adopt the concept of inheritance was Islam. The first faith to adopt the concept that a woman is free, to buy and sell without need of a signature of a guarantor who is a male was found in Islam.

You will see that the first system of faith, in the monotheistic faith as well as the others that gave the Muslim woman the right to choose who she wills to marry was only instituted in Islam. Previous to that you see that women where inherited from Father to son, that they where not permitted to buy and to sell and to trade, that they where not permitted to own property, that they where not permitted to inherit from a spouse or from their own father or mother. You will find it shocking to know that up until recently there has been always a dialogue, on going does the woman have a soul? This was never a concept that was ever sacred in the realm of Islam. So we see that the Muslim women in Islam has been given specific things in a short period of time not given to anyone else. But the question begs to be asked “but it is now 2003, where is the advance?” Granted 1400 some odd years ago you gave women things that no other system of belief gave them, but where is this reformist advance that is claimed in Islam?

Here comes the second important point regarding our misconceptions.

As Muslims we value our faith and we value the dictates that God has ordered and we value what it is that has been stated and therefore when it is a final judgment or a final command we always see that the orders of God are universal regarding the basic human nature, so therefore we take one example. The Muslim woman has been ordered by God to cover, and there are varying levels and varying degrees that will be practiced in this regard. There are some that will cover most parts of their body including their hands, some including their face, although the standard that has been set is that Muslim women should cover all parts of her body excluding their hands and their face. It is something that she does as a personal act.

So therefore what is the reason that the Hijab now has not been revealed or removed? In the year 2003 we say to ourselves we live in a free society she doesn’t want to dress, she doesn’t have to, if she wants to go out in public in a specific attire it’s her choice. We say no, it is Gods choice knowing what is best for humanity based on the characteristics of man.

The human male at the time of Muhammad (s) had the same drive for the physical female body and it will continue in our time and it will continue until the end of time. So the basic premise and the reason for hijab has not changed, the times have changed and there seems to be more liberalism where the women will say, “well I can interact with someone and I don’t have to be covered, and so what if they look? I know that I’m not doing anything wrong, I will not allow him to do anything wrong, so what? It’s my choice.”

We see as a consequence of this there has been a societal change that has brought corruption and that has brought many diseases into society, diseases of the heart. Where you find 76%, and this is an Australian statistic, 76% of all married men in Australia have admitted, and this is a study, that they have had an extra marital affair. Of those 76% who have stated this, they say that their causes are being in constant proximity with work mates. 58% of those 76% of men state that 58% of those extra marital affairs where with close co-workers, those who work around them on a day-to-day basis.

This is a known fact just by interacting in the work places that we are in and in the times that we live in. We found that in the societies that we live in, whether in Western or outside Western countries, this is a regular problem and that it increases with the times and that there is a direct correlation whether one begs to admit it or not between the attire that is worn and the flirtation behavior that continues thereafter.

We find also, statistics that will say to us that as psychologists have shown that a male’s drive is brought out in one of two ways - either sight or touch. More than 12% of all videotape releases around the world are pornographic in nature. 86% of web users at any given time are looking at pornographic material. A male can be given a simple piece of paper, a photograph and it arouses him and that is something that is a fact proven scientifically and proven in society on a day-to-day basis.

So there is a correlation, and it is something that is undeniable therefore the basic essence and the basic premise for asking the Muslim women to cover is clear and hasn’t changed throughout the times.

But then you will come back and you will say “Well why cannot curve this right in the male?” And it is a question that cannot be answered by myself and others because it is something that is an impossibility; it is from that very primate evolutionary nature in man to seek to spread his living with as many women as possible.

2. Muslim men can have more than one wife. Muslim women must only have one.

That’s inequality. We return to that same statistic of 76 out of 100, 76% of all married men in this country where we live have admitted to extra marital affairs. What happens afterwards? Where is the responsibility? Where is the responsibility that tails in that action? That is what Islam calls to.

It will surprise you to find out that a fraction of Muslim men around the world have more than one wife. Rather it is an oddity in the Muslim community that we live in. In Perth it is rare to hear that someone has more than one partner, it is rare, it is something of an odd nature, yet it is not odd in Western culture that a man may have a mistress or that a man may have someone who is on the side.

Why is it that when a man wants to take responsibility, wants to support and wants to be there for a person whom he loves, and who is accepted by his other partner because it is something that is legislated in law and under the sight of God, do we find it as something that is a horror, but when we see the same thing that is being performed without responsibility, without respect and without dignity in the form of cheating and in the form of a type of revenge, we turn our heads away from it. And therefore there is that double standard. So it is important for us to recognize that we should not take things at face value.

So it is not as simple as saying Muslim men can take up to four wives at one time. Is that what happens? The answer is no. Is that the norm? The answer is no. Is there a safe guard for that? Yes. Is there a safe guard for when in a community there is a need, where you have for every male 40 or 50 females, is there a need that more than one spouse is to taken and to be cared for? The answer is yes. And I will read you a contemporary example.

In the city of Bosnia, after the war and after the lack of humanity that was shown by the Western world to the Muslim nation of Europe, we found that for every male there where more than 20 females who would survive. Due to the concentration camps, due to the forced labor camps, due to the genocide that underwent in that country. Therefore it became a duty, and it was never something out of sexual drive, nothing of that nature that brought together large families and that brought together foster children into the situation and that brought together adoption and a sense of social responsibility.

Misconception number two:

The second misconception that we will deal with today is the concept that Muslim’s have regarding other things. There is this misconception that it is a Muslims duty to change those who are living around him, if he’s living in a country and it’s a country where Christianity is secularism it is his duty to stamp it out and make everyone Muslim. The answer is no. How many Muslims have come to your door and knocked on it to introduce you to Islam? Has it ever happened? How many television commercials have you seen or radio announcements have you heard about Muslims asking you, come learn about God, come accept your savior, be one of us? It is only extended to those who show interest. There is no compulsion in faith. Allah says in the Quran:

“There is no compulsion in the matter of faith.”

“Truth is always distinct from falsehood.”

When someone wants to learn, he will find it and then he begins to accept the situation and then he begins to increase our practice and increase our call. But you will never find that a Muslim will come and force his faith on you. What you will find is that a Muslim may request at your work place to have 15 minutes of his own lunch break to pray and he will make a simple claim like one of the people in Sydney, “can I have a closet space, I don’t want my own room, I just want a closet space during my lunch hour not on your company time, where I can pray for just 5 minutes. The matter had to go to court to accept whether he was justified in making such a claim.

So it is important for us to have that understanding, to have that worldly awareness, and that worldly understanding that we are a people who live together and we interact with one another. As a Muslim it is not my duty or my obligation to force you or to compel you or to come and hold your hand and say “sit down, let me tell you what I believe in”. That was never the practice at the time of the Prophet (s) or in our time. Rather the call to Islam sadly to say in our time has been diminished by the evil and atrocious actions of some specific individuals who espouse Islam. And that has hindered the causes of Muslims.

Misconception number three:

Birds of the feather flock together.

If they are Muslim they are all the same. If he does it, they all do it. Bin Laden did it, everyone else did it. You paint them all with the same brush and the same colors. And that is the greatest injustice, not just in Islam but to humanity - that you judge a person by their color or their ethnicity or by their state of his faith, his race or his dictates or his actions. You are to judge a person by his measure that has been set to us by God throughout the times which is by the character of the individual, as a singular person.

You find the Reverend Martin Luther King in the 60’s in America in the land that is stated to be the land of democracy and freedom, just 35 years ago, standing and saying “I have a dream” he doesn’t even believe it will be a reality, he’s dreaming, “I had a dream that one day that man will be measured by his character, not by the color of his skin”.

We find ourselves in our time today saying these exact same words and calling for the exact same thing - that if someone commits an act that is immoral, improper, unsanctioned in that faith of Islam, you do not associate the faith by the action of the individual.

In the same way that we would never say that the IRA in Ireland represents Catholics and Protestants around the world, or the Hindu parties who burned Mosques while locking people inside them, that they represent all of the Hindus or all of the Sikhs. Rather they are the act of individuals who are criminally accountable for all of their deeds and will have their day in the sight of God to be questioned for their actions.

There is a famous premise in the legal system that says that if a judge errors in applying the law, you do not blame the law but you blame the judge that it’s a simple mistake which is his fault as a person. You do not take the whole legal system and throw it out the window because one innocent man was convicted for a crime he did not commit. You do not say then the whole legal system is improper. In that same respect that is what we as Muslims ask, that you make the distinction between the religion of Islam, faith and the practice of the 99.9% of Muslims throughout the world - that you do not take that fraction .01% and paint it upon all Muslims.

It is a great honour that I have the opportunity to say that I am currently employed in one of the largest Muslim schools in Australia, three campuses throughout the city of Perth, in Thornlie, Dianella and Kewdale which boasts 1800 Muslim students. But it is sad to see to this day that on our main walk way, leading up to our vast, large, acreous campus we find people who will spray paint under Australian Islamic College they will add “Australian Islamic College of Terrorism”. Or they will enter into the school and seek to damage, break its windows or computer systems.

But it also gives us great happiness and joy to see people like Andy Chapman. A person driving by sees the graffiti, he takes down the address of the school and he writes us a letter, telling us “I just wish to renew your support in the Australian way and the Australian system and to tell you that it is far and clear of the actions of these individuals.” It is important for you if you understand the gravity of the situation to lend a helping hand.

Misconception number four:

Muslims are all from over three and are all Arabs – that Islam is Arabic.

In fact only 20% of all the Muslim population are Arabs, 80% of Muslims are non-Arabs. You have 50 million Muslims living in China, 20 million Muslims living in Russia, a whole country Bosnia, Kosovo, Albania, in the heartland of Europe, are all Muslims.

Islam is not the faith of Arabs. It is a universal faith. And this is going to be demonstrated in the next few days when Muslims perform the Hajj. 2.5-2.8 million people are in the city of Mecca and they will converge in a few days in the planes of Arafat in all of their numbers remaining one day dressed in two garments, two white unstitched unattached pieces of cotton. There is no doctor, there is no white person, colored person, there is no oriental, there is no “I’m Turkish”, “I’m Somalian”, “I’m Egyptian”, “I’m Australian”. There is no I was born Muslim or I converted/reverted to Islam all are one people.

Malcolm X said it best. In a contemporary American style where he wrote back a letter to his wife, after performing the Hajj he says, “I have changed my ways”. He originally was a racist he felt that Black people should be completely segregated from Caucasians. He says “I have changed, I now recognize, after eating from the same plate and drinking from the same cup with a white person with the bluest of blue eyes and the blondest of blonde hair that nothing can bring equality in these terms other than the submission to God.”

Hajj is the only thing that could unite 2.8 million people with not a single argument, not a single fight because it cancels out and it breaks the pilgrimage. No one intends to enter into these lands in that time to do harm to others.

It is important to look at that local context of what Islam is, specifically living in Australia which is now a country which calls to racial harmony, that calls to multiculturalism.

It is stated in the papers, the legislation and by our leaders. But it must also be enforced and practiced by the constituents, you and I. We must prove that these legal frameworks and these legislation are a reality. And we are to reject the claims by some of our leaders who seem to distance and to separate and segregate people instead of allowing them to come in contact with one another. So learn about each other and the faith that each and every person has, knowing that we are to respect the laws and respect the ethics of the land that we live in.

Misconception number five:

The word Jihad.

It is a word that I even find strange how it has been misused to such an extent. The word Jihad comes from root word to mean “exerting ones self” to strive, to struggle, to bring about a good cause, to bring about a good action.

There are two types of Jihad. Jihad where a person struggles against himself to do what is right, and to stay away from ones evil, that is the greatest Jihad. And that is the beginning of the second Jihad.

There is also the word Jihad which has the meaning of a military struggle, where a person defends his land, defends his people, defends his property and his home.

The Prophet Muhammad (s), said that five people, if they are martyred in Jihad will gain paradise including:

1. The one who is in a battle defending his land or his property or his huntering and women folk.

2. A man is sitting in his own home and without any cause someone enters upon him and he dies in defense his home and his property.

3. Martyrs who are amongst women, a women who gives birth and in that process she returns to God she is considered a martyr in Islam.

It is a larger scope than what has been named through the view of the media and through the lenses that have been shown to us.

It is important for us to have that global perspective where we do not just look at what we are made to see.

Today there are Muslims that are under strike in hundreds of cities around the world and I’ll give you one vivid example. In Chechnya, in Russia you find Muslims who are living in a state that is considered criminal to subject anyone to it. In every one hundred citizens in the city of Chechnya, for every 100 people only 5 are men and out of those 5, only two of them are between the ages of 18 to 60. Everyone else is either below 18 years old or above the age of 60. Two out of every 100 people of the Chechnyan people are able-bodied men due to the defamation that they have experienced in their lands. But there is no lens that gives us that picture; there is nothing that puts our focus to that area or that time or that land. What we see are the shots that what it is that media sees to have instilled in our hearts and in our minds and it is important for us to recognize that there is more out there than just what we see.

Conclusion

I conclude by admonition to myself and to you, that we as Muslims have a great duty in explaining to you and in bringing to you what it is that we believe in, and to show you that we are peace loving people. That we have the same characteristics and same modality that you have. We are partners living in the same country and living in the same land with you.

But it is also important for you to extend your hand as we extend ours. And it is important for you to give us strength as you wish us to strengthen you. And it is important for you to listen to our opinions and to listen to our concerns and to act when there is a need to that and not just to remain distant or to take that isolation concept, to see that we a continent far from the problems of the world

We recently saw the criminal actions that brought this home to us. That there are things that people seek to harm our way of life and our actions. And it is important for us to stamp out the problems before they begin. So it is important for you and I to come together to recognize where the truth lies and where we disagree with one another, that the disagreement can be done in proper decorum and proper respect and with proper manners.

Where a person still feels that he has dignity and that he has honor not that he feels that others stare at him just because of the way he dresses, or the accent he carries on his tongue, although the Canadian accent is somewhat accepted in this country!

It is important to let people fee comfortable and to lend a helping hand when they are in need. Generally speaking Muslims are nice people. We don’t bite, we don’t scratch or scream, or kick, in general. You will find that there are people who are immoral or unjust or improper who bring oppression to others. And by chance they may be Muslim. And one of the many reasons you find Muslims flocking to this country of Australia is because we live under those regimes, where there are leaders who are Muslim, countries and nations where there is oppression. And they seek to free themselves from these bonds. So they come to a country like yours, like mine where we live together in peace and harmony in relative terms. And they seek admittance to it promising to earn a living, to work hard and they only ask for a chance.

It is important not to be close-minded and to say “Everyone from that place is not to come, keep the Afghans out, keep the Iraqis out, even if it is not a stated policy.” It is something that we see in the treatment of those who are incarcerated at the refugee centers and the refugee camps. So it is important for us to recognize that we do have a societal duty toward ourselves and to others, and that it is something that we are rewarded for in the harmony of where we live. And we recognize those who seek to do harm will do harm regardless of our actions and therefore it is important for us to seek to stamp them out to seek to bring what it is the truth that they are calling to.

We always conclude by reminding ourselves that you and us are a people of great similarity in faiths and beliefs. As Muslims we believe in many of the same things of morality and ethics that you hold to be virtuous and are proud of. And as a Muslim I remind myself by saying:

“Say to the people of the book let us come together on something that we can be agree upon, that we worship the one true God.”

This is the thing that we call each other to without compulsion, without hostility, with proper decorum. This is just a glimpse of some of the Misconceptions and some of the frustrations that I have vented out on you. Hopefully there will be many questions that you will have.

Compiled By: Sr. Shaheedah Wilathgamuwa

Edited By: Br. Yahya Ibrahim

Nice one Elrisia

My view? An Imam is more holy than a Priest.

hi all im a (islam) if that what u could us anyway we are all human so deal with is ;) come on chill out live ur life not about this

ya........................deal with it
all ive got to say is personaly i think all religions are SEXIST!
haha ya so there...i mean where in one holy book is there mentioned a holy woman!? cept Virgin Mary but then again god only used her to give birth.

o sorry except Hinduism..they actually have female gods!! go hindus wooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

yeah,.. religions are SEXIST.. so umm how about you deal with it?

That door, it does swing both ways.

ouch! man
i do deal with it, thats the only view i have
im not religious ehehe......well....

Just keeping it real as you kooky kids say.

your topic is the stupidiest thing i have ever had to read.your making it sound like there îslam religion is wierd.. but think of it like this,
every religion has different beliefs and values. so u know what if u going to say sumthing stupid like that keep it to yourself and look it up.

Yeah Insane Authority I think you need to deal with reality and probably do a little research before you make statements…
You think religions are sexiest…you know nothing about the main semetic religions then at all. Actually they are quite the opposite if you interpret and take the time to read and consider the words of these great books…Okay the bible for starters mentions a lot more than one woman, but Im guessing you haven’t taken the time to read the bible of late and aren’t aware of that.

The Quran mentions hundreds the Prophet Mohummad (S.W.T) had several wives that contributed to his cause and among the first and respected Muslim converts were his wives. He pays tribute to them in his words of the Quran…Like men, Muslim women are entitled to freedom of expression. It is reported throughout history that women not only expressed their opinions freely, but they also participated in serious discussion with the Prophet himself and other leaders of the Islamic State. Women were accustomed to question the Prophet while men were present. They were not embarrassed to have their voices heard, nor did the Prophet prevent their inquiries. One of these cases was the case of Khowlah Bint Thaalaba. She came to the Prophet (s) and complained about her husband and Allah revealed verses of the Quran while she was sitting and He resolved her problem. And the case of Omar (ra) when he was challenged, during his sermon, by a woman regarding the dowry is an example of women voicing their opinions and correcting a male. Omar admitted that the woman was right and he was wrong. Omar said, "Everybody is more knowledgeable than Omar." Furthermore, the Quran reflects the conversation between Sulaiman and Balqees. All of these examples support the fatwa that women are allowed to voice their opinions publicly for whatever has been prescribed for us. Allah tells us in the Quran that our speech must be just. The restriction is how we speak and that it should be a just speech. The status of Muslim women as defined in Islam. The woman is a mother. Paradise lies under the feet of the mother. As an authentic hadith teaches us: A man approached the Prophet and asked, "Who is the most worthy of my care?" The Prophet replied "Your mother", three times and then your father. A Muslim woman is also a daughter and a sister. Allah tells us that "He bestows female offspring upon whom He wills and bestows male offspring upon whom He wills".

A Muslim woman is also a wife who is a source of comfort for her husband as he is to her. "And among His signs is this, that He created wives from among yourselves, that you may dwell in tranquility with them, and He has put love and mercy between your hearts."

Women make up half of society and they are responsible for nurturing, guidance and reformation of the subsequent generations of men and women. It is the female who imbues principles and faith into the souls of the nation. A woman’s responsibility in faith is exactly the same as that of a man. Women are to pray, fast, give charity, perform the pilgrimage and perform other forms of ibadah. A woman is rewarded for this just like a man. A woman must believe in the Oneness of Allah, the Books of Allah, the Angels of Allah, the Prophets of Allah, the Day of resurrection, the Day of Judgment and heaven and hell, and predestination.

How can you now justify your claims of sexism against religion particularly Islam? After reading this it appears to be quite the opposite to me…

Just my thoughts and beliefs

Eirisa :o)

JPM

You should know better tut tut. I was really disappointed in your statement JPM I thought you had more education and knowledge, more intelligence in general than to make such foolish assumptions by painting one kind of people with the same brush...that is a true tragedy to humanity not to our religion my friend...

Eirisa :o)

Britni

Yours is the stupidest post in relation to this topic I have read to date.

Try reading the posts before making yourself look stupid. Judging by your statement either you didn't take the time to actually read the above posts and mine in particular OR you are just not old or educated enough to actually understand them.

Just my thoughts
Eirisa

JPM - You are right I did make a shocking assumption about you but still in my eyes it is you who is being foolish.

The Quran says nothing of the sort - idiot. I doubt you can read proper arabic so I think perhaps I know better...well I know I do

No all islamic people are not terrorists, but that is like saying all Americans have the same beliefs as Bush, and you all have your dicks sucked by your fat, butt ugly Lewinsky receptionists...that you all do nothing but eat donuts and drink coffee and rag on the rest of the world. You all get involved in business that has nothing to do with you, that you have no understanding about and that you all are pro war fanatics - so thats a fair assumption isn't it JPM?

Well inshallah JPM you will be punished on Judgement Day for your lack of respect while as muslims we will forever live in paradise...in our hearts and in our minds...this is one arguement you just can win with me, the one thing I am truly passionate about and have every faith in. Alhumdillah...

So cheers, you should start saying your prayers now JPM good day to you also...

wtf? confused but anyways blieve what you want because thats all that really matters right? not what other people think about....

I havent taken your post seriously at all JPM I figure your not as educated on this topic as you are on others - I did get a laugh after my offensive side decided to let go :o)

Its just thats my religion you know :o)

No i didn't - You can babble on about race, my race if you like...we've already had this argument and I'm just really beyond getting into it with you again. Plus we already came to the conclusion of: Smelling like hair product isn't a bad thing, todays hair products smell amazing. Also that being a half Oreo isn't that bad either...I'm suprised you are unable to come up with some more offensive racial hate slurrs JPM...

Im not even really offended by your comments about my religion either, they have no substance and I know more about this topic than yourself so please throw your discriminative comments this way JPM - when it comes to my religion it really doesn't bother me because that's kept in my heart alhumdillah...Sorry to dissappoint you by not getting all uptight about your comments but you'll have to do better than that :o)

You know nothing about Islam - at least you got one thing right there JPM LoL

It is Islam - Not Islamism LoL Dag...

Yeah on another note though tell us more about Justplainmeism? LMAO

Thanks for your opinions and the cheap entertainment Just Plain Me LoL

=Eirisa=

No hun I didn't LoL You should know better from our previous disagreements when I really take things seriously and get offended - this is clearly NOT one of those times...

Your entertainment is diiiiiiiiirt cheap - and you know it LoL

Friendly? I thought that was against Justplainme-ism beliefs LMAO :oD

Always good for a laugh mate

Eirisa

friends~ yeah just cause he kicks you doesnt mean hes a terroist.. what are you 10? and plus isnt he your friend? you would you talk sh*t about him?

Could be worse could be Justplainme-asm

scarredsoul - what on earth are you on about? LoL

And yeah, Islams ARE terrorists. One of my good friends is Islamic and the idiot keeps kicking and hitting me all the time. Moreover he robs my lunch even before I get the chance to smell it.

thats from friends~

Islamic or not scarredsoul - if I was your "friend" I would kick you in the bum for saying such foolish things - idiot...

And guys it is NOT Islams
We follow ISLAM
We are of ISLAMIC faith
We are also MUSLIMS - not ISLAMS :o)

wow, I don't know if I want to get involved with this conversation, but my view is that it is a false religion. Throughout history it's "holy warriors" have destroyed nations, massacered women and children. Sometimes they would rip open the stomachs of pregnant women. If you don't believe me study the history books not the Koran.

Just for the record wiches are not inocent and true believers did not kill because of their reliogious beleifs. If they did I would like one example of a Prodestant Holy War. The English Civil War was a war for religious freedom. The Christians had been persecuted for centuries and they wanted their children to live in peace. Their children did live in peace under Cromwell. Unfortunatly, fools put the son of the king, that was beheaded for his wickedness (I believe Charles) on the throne.

Good and Evil,
Heaven or Hell,
Angel or Demon,
Good Witch, Bad Witch,
White magic, Black magic,
Voodooist or Terrorists,
Islams or Muslims,
Judaism, Buddhism and Christian,
Talmud, Quran, The Holy Bible
Old Testament and New Testament,
Mohammed, Buddha and the Messiah,
Knights Templars, Crusades,
Suicide Bombers, Holy Wars,
Self-Sacrifice “Istishhad” or “Intihar” Suicide
Right or Wrong, Good and Bad, Holy or Evil?
9/11 was the last straw and for all the wake up call!
Iran, Syria and the PLO lie and hide behind
the so-called “Islamic Jihad” like no one knows
they fund the Hizballah, what is the most powerful
centrally-controlled terrorist organization in the world.

P.S. “Lock Down”

im a Muslim and i believe that our religion makes a lot more sense than the Christian religion. and all the other religions for that matter. not going into God and Jesus, where i wouldnt be able to prove anything, but in the way we live our lives every day. everything that we do has to do with our religion. we thank God before we do anything. before we eat before we drink before we walk before we wake up before we walk. we say a prayer before we walk into the bathroom, and we walk in with our left foot and we say a prayer when we walk out, with our right foot. and we cover up and we dont date. everything that we do has to do with God. which is the way everything should be considering life is just a test. its atually in the Christian religion to cover up. not to cover up their hair but to cover up their legs and their arms. and u say all these girls walking around in mini skirts and bikins saying that their Christian because their parents taught them to say "Jesus is my Lord and savior."

but uh ya

i just think that Islam makes a lot more sense than Christianity, not just faith-wise, but the way we live our lives

im out

Allahu'ukbur

I know a witch. Unforunatly, and they are real.

wow....that sucks...i guess...actually, it doesn't. I think its interesting even though I don't believe in witchcraft. It sounds like something fun to learn more about.

Cool a witch I just went to see a play of the wizard of oz and there was a witch in that lol *cackles*

Friends I didn't know that American referred to us like that - but you learn something new everyday - Thanks :o)

Anne: You probably shouldn't have got involved in this conversation after I read your statements. Sadly uneducated and uninformed statements. I dont know if you read the topic at hand but its on Islam - not history. Throughout history people and nations of ALL religions have massacered women and children, heck they still do it these days. They are not all of Islamic faith and as a matter of fact it is a lot of Islamic women and children that have BEEN the victims of these Holy Wars also...now my second point comes to your media influenced beliefs in relation to Islam...Do you think we are all fanatical "Holy Warriors"? Well you're wrong if you do, Islam has several different sects - perhaps you should do a little research ON ISLAM and not on terroism, because it is an INDIVIDUAL's interpretation of the Koran, not EVERYONE's. I follow Islam and the taking of anyone's life under those circumstances prevent me, in my beliefs and interpretation of the Koran I will never be granted entry into Heaven's Paradise. I think you watch too much TV Anne, and its sad to me because your thoughts are the same as so many uninformed others.

You should study the Koran....

Anne: Just for YOUR record...just beginning LEARN TO SPELL!

Witches are not innocent? Umm okay so being killed in the name of your beliefs makes you guilty of what then Anne? I have to disagree with you on so many statements. You know nothing about history, what you do know is completely one sided - you need to watch less TV and read a little bit more. What do you mean by:

wiches are not inocent and true believers did not kill because of their reliogious beleifs

That doesn't make any sense! Explain so I can disagree please LoL

=Eirisa=

By the way Anne dont take any of my opinions personally, I just dont agree with a single thing you have said :o) Stimulating conversation though...

Eirisa, I agree about watching less TV and the
Witch thing. But I wanted to ask the question,
does “Istishhad” self-sacrifice make it ok to kill,
or have the Islamic Jihad twisted the Koran [Quran]
to justified the destruction of Israel through holy war
and also opposes moderate Arab governments that
it believes have been tainted by Western secularism.

“Intihar” suicide and “Istishhad” self-sacrifice
I read somewhere, I just don’t remember were
it was at on line. Anyways are they in the Koran
[Quran]? Or do I have it all wrong and if I do or
don’t, why do they say they will go to Heaven
for suicide booming?

I am not for the Islamic Jihad and don’t have
nothing against you or any one else to Islam.
I would just like to know why Jihad?
And why it’s holy war? No one has the right
to take life in Gods name and I know you do
not believe in this. But you know a lot about
it from what I see posted. That’s why I am
asking you. Thank You, Bogie ( :

Thankyou Friends....they have pretty much summed it up. Saving my repitition of everything they have just stated - Bogie I hope that answers your questions...

What Do You Know About Islam? Not what you have heard about Islam, not what you have seen in the actions of some Muslims, but what do you really know about Islam?
Because there is a difference between Islam and Muslims.
There is a difference between a Man and a Father. A man who has children, he is a father, but father is a responsibility. If a man does not fulfil those responsibilities, he is not necessarily a good father. Islam is a rule and an order. If a Muslim does not fulfil these Rules/Orders, he is not a good Muslim, so you cannot compare Islam by Muslims.

We hear the terms Islam and Muslims quite often. And we read about Islam/Muslims in periodicals, text books of Colleges and Universities. We hear and we see a lot of inaccurate, misleading and purposeful misinformation through the media and I have to admit that some of these misinformation and misrepresentation has been perpetuated by Muslims themselves. Yet one out of every five people in this world of 5 billion people is a Muslim. One out of five people in this world is a Muslim. This is a statistics, that you can verify in the Encyclopaedia, Almanac or any other source that you like to look at. How is it that, 1 out of 5 people in this world is a Muslim, that we don’t know something about Islam, the facts about Islam? If I told you that 1 out of 5 people in the world is a Chinese, but we know the Geographical, Social, Economical, Historical, Political and Philosophical factors about China and Chinese. How come we don’t know about Islam.

What are the accurate characteristics of this mis-understood way of life, which is followed by great part of humanity? I will try to provide you with some facts about Islam. And it is necessary for you to be open minded and open hearted, because if I turn a glass up side down and pour water, I will never get a glass of water, it has to be right side up. Facts alone do not lead to understanding, but rather a combination of ambition and ability to appreciate and accept the truth when you hear it.

The word Islam means Surrender, Submission and Obedience. Surrender, Submission and Obedience to Allah – the Almighty God. You can say Allah or the Creator or the Supreme God, the Supreme Force, the All Wise. All of those are His names. We say Allah because in Arabic there is no other expression, this expression Allah cannot be applied to any created thing. Other words we use for Almighty God, people apply them for created things. For eg: the almighty dollar, he is the greatest and so on, but the word Allah can only be applied to the Creator, whom we have described earlier. So from this point, I am going to use the word Allah and you will know whom I am speaking about.

The word Islam is derived from the root Salamah, it means to be at peace or to have security. Therefore a Muslim is a person, who Surrenders, Submits and Obeys the laws of Almighty God and through this Submission obtains peace and security for themselves. We can immediately see that by such a definition, the Arabic word Islam describes the same manner and behaviour of the well known and respected Prophets and Messengers of Almighty God. All of them – Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Solomon, Issac, Ishmael, Jacob, John the Baptist, Jesus and Muhammad. May Allah’s peace and blessings be upon them all. All of these men, these Prophets/Messengers came from the same Almighty God, with the same message, with the same chain of transmission and they said ONE THING: Obey God. Worship Almighty God and fulfil the purpose of life and do good actions and you will be rewarded with another life. That’s all they said. Don’t make it more than that. That is all they said regardless of what language, what time and to whom they came to. That is all they said.

If you read the scriptures carefully, without your own interpretation or someone else’s addition or fabrication, you will find that this was the simple message off all the Prophets who confirmed one another. Not one of those Prophets ever said, I am God, Worship me. You don’t have to think because you won’t find it in any book you have; not the Bible, not the Torah, not the Old and the New Testament, not the psalms of David. You will not find it in any book. You will not find it from the speech of any Prophet. Please go home and palm through all the pages of your Bible and I guarantee you that you won’t find it once, any where. So where did this come from? That is something else you have to investigate. And in another setting we can set the straight word easily for you. History has a way of turning over every stone. We can immediately see that by such a definition, the Arabic word describes what all the Prophets did. They all came and Submitted themselves to God, Surrendered themselves to God and called the people to God and insisted upon the people to do deeds of righteousness. The 10 commandments of Moses – what was that? The speech of Abraham – what was that? The psalms of David – what was that? Proverbs of Solomon – what did he say? The Gospel of Jesus Christ – what did he say? What did John the Baptist say? What did Issac/Ishmael say? What did Muhammad (pbuh) say? Nothing more than that.

Wa maaa umiruuu illaa li ya-budullaha mukhlisiina lahud-Diin; hunafaaa-a wa yuqiimus-Salaata wa yu-tuz-Zakaata wa zaalika diinul-Qayyimah. Chapter 98 Verse 5

In this verse Allah says:
They are ordered naught else than to serve Allah, keeping religion pure for Him, as men by nature are upright, and to establish worship and to pay the poor-due. That is true religion.

Simple message. By the same token, it would be appropriate to consider those Prophets and Messengers as Muslims because Muslim is what? Don’t think about the Arabic terminology, don’t think about Saudi Arabia, Makkah, Medina or Egypt. Think about what Muslim means -

He who surrenders to Almighty God and obeys the laws of Almighty God and whether it is naturally or in a dialectical manner, everything that submits to the law of Almighty God is a Muslim.

So when the child comes out of mother’s womb at the time when God has ordered – what is it? It is Muslim.

When the Sun goes around in its orbit – what is it? It is Muslim.

When the Moon goes around the Earth – what is it? It is Muslim.

The Law of Gravity – what is it? Muslim Law.

For once I agree with you Erissa.

i have to make sure to read that later Eirisa bcuz i have to go now

and Friends- those were only some of the Islamic sins correct? bcuz im sure i know more.

Yeah they were but a few Yasmin - there are many more but I think Friends covered the main ones :o)
Do read it habibi - inshallah you can come back to read it :o)