Let's debate!

Some really terrific feedback from you all so thanks for that. Just to answer a couple of questions from further up....I wasn't smoking when I approached the door....I don't know of any airports that you can walk around smoking in these days...designated lounges only. This incident happened at my local Perth airport. I've used this smoking lounge many times in the past so I knew where it was located but, what I didn't know was that this airport is now totally smoke free and the room is now a prayer room so I wasn't really paying much attention till I was told I wasn't allowed to go in there. This came from a man who was making his way out of the room. To be honest, I was so taken aback that I never asked why? The other question asked....was I wearing a veil....no I wasn't but the sign on the door just said prayer room which, is a very general term IMO and shouldn't ever person have the right to entry? I know some religions require women to cover their heads/arms/legs ect and when I visit these places of worship I abide by the rules of the country but...I was in my own country and, I feel that makes a huge difference here.

^ That is why I asked whether the room was for general public or only for a designated Islamic worship.

If it was open for public, anybody can get inside and in any clothing, as long it is appropriate. In which case no religion has a monopoly on the room. May be the room is designated only for Islam followers? ..since doing so in the middle of a public place might not be appropriate?. .and a prayer room might give them privacy and less noise? ..

I dont know, but I wouldnt want to stretch the topic since there is a chance it might turn into drama, which is the reason why alot of people avoid the forums.

Hellon, I guess we wont know why you werent allowed, unless you actually ask the authorities and clarify it for yourself. And if you ever do clarify your doubts, share it. I am curious. I shall try to get into a prayer room next time I'm in such a place that offers such a room. There arent malls or airports with prayer rooms withing the vicinity of my city. But knowledge, of any kind is worth absorbing.

Did Perth airport provide an alternate area for smokers?

I don't feel there can be any rules for a general prayer room within an airport, apart from staying silent and respectful within it. Perhaps that man was just assuming too much entitlement.

Yes, I should have asked the question.. is it because I'm female, inapropriately dressed, some other reason...what is the reason exactly? but I didn't. There were a lot of men's shoes lined up outside and the person coming out of the door was of middle eastern appearance...that's all I can tell you.

Abby

The designated smoking area is now outside the airport and....not just anywhere outside just a little corner haha!!! Trouble was I had already cleared immigration so I had to go without my ciggy.

^
If it is a general praying room, then there are no parameters stating what dressing one must be in to qualify for entering the room. Unless you are in a two piece clothing, which is offensive everywhere, I see no reason why you should not be allowed inside the room. Only on the basis of clothing ofcourse.

Were there women shoes as well?. .Else, the room is dedicated for men only? ..men and women have different rooms?. .Idk. I've generally observed what Abed has written. Men and women have different areas in the same room or different floors altogether. Or may be the rooms are only for Islamic followers, in which case I think its appropriate since they should be given privacy for praying. I'd rather like to see a person do his praying in a private room rather than see him/her kneeling in the middle of the office or a mall, or airport. Especially women. They are entitled to their privacy and dignity.

They were all men's shoes. The sign only said Prayer Room...nothing about gender or creed.

^ May be it was mens room after all?. .

It never dawned upon me, entering a prayer room while I was in all the gulf countries. Although the payer rooms in gulf countires are actually reserved only for Islamic followers. The sign pointing to the room shows a symbol of a crescent moon with a star above it and says prayer room in English and Arabic. In some cases, an actually mosque is displayed. Or signs displaying kneeling figures, and more such signs.

Praying halls could be different for men and women.

http://katzenmeier.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/img_9760x-airport-his-and-hers-prayer-room-sign-amman-jordan.jpg

A sign actually stating multi-faith praying room.

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2710/4138177267_9883235cde_z.jpg

A designated mens room.

http://img2.photographersdirect.com/img/19309/wm/pd1825852.jpg

A general praying room sign.

http://cdn.thenextweb.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2010/08/muslim_prayer_room_by_dada_clone_fl.jpg

A sign in Jeddah, displaying head covering for both men and women.

http://susieofarabia.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/dscf910225.jpg

Meditation and praying room

http://www.flickr.com/photos/faisalw/2789443584/

Everyone is their own judge, as the truth is highly individual. So by all means ask the authorities or anyone seen using the room before entering =)

This is what's confusing me. It didn't say reserved for any particular creed or gender but I got the destinct impression that is was for islamic followers only. While I probably wouldn't try to get into a prayer room if I thought it was only for a certain religion overseas...in my own country I expect (out of respect) that I can go in there to pray if I want to.

I have never been to an international airport. Is there an international symbol they use for gender on restrooms?

^^^

Too funny Michael....I've missed you!

Still the little matchstick people but there is one I haven't worked out yet...three little matchstick people in a row with arrows pointing in either direction????

It seems you may have been profiled as a non muslim and I am dying to focus on the profiling
The FBI in the States has determined that an unarmed teen that was shot and killed in a gated community attracted the attention of a neighborhood watchman who watched the kid( until he was alleged by himself ) shot the kid in selfdefense . The sharia law that a lot of ignorant folks fear as much as hoods has made its way to the hate groups . I just want to say that it shows that you do not profile belief systems and will pray where you are welcome

Speaking of restrooms I have a possum in mine this morning
This reminds me of a book I read to my mother years ago that has a chapter about hooded strangers that walked about in the neighborhood and were up to good

Coon Holler by J H Cheshire

HELLON,

You have not been profiled as a non-muslim.

I clearly said above that you weren't allowed to enter because you are a WOMAN.

In Lebanon, our praying rooms do not have 'ONLY MEN MOSLIMS ALLOWED' signs. In fact, they only say 'praying room'...It is.. may I say.. a 'general knowledge' that you should know.

Only Islam has such rooms (I said above why) , that's why it's a 'general knowledge' ..

-----

Nicko,

women aren't allowed to pray with men in the same place because

men have penises, and they might forget God when praying...

lol

LP...I don't think I was profiled either...and I think Michael was joking when he said that.

I understand that....in your country it may be general knowledge...but this happened in my country....

Michael: Aha! your humor is back again after a long absence it seems! If you decide to travel to Greece (the mythological birthplace of the Olympian Gods), or for that matter most of Europe, look for the sign WC (=water closet), and keep some coins handy! (It is a European tradition to ask you to pay for using their public WC's). But, if you end up in the Hawaiian paradise instead, you may want to be careful when asking directions to the Luau (word for the famous Polynesian dance feast), or else you may be directed to the Lua (your favorite Mr. Crapper's invention), that sounds very much alike. Happened to me, more than once!

Hellon, welcome back.
Maybe you can call Perth airport authorities (http://www.perthairport.com.au/ContactUs.aspx)and simply ask them why you were discriminated from entering what seems to be an all-denominational prayer room, without specific markings on its door in your country, appropriate clothing or not. Maybe, you had a pack of cigarette's in your hand, ready to light (in the belief that you are entering a smoking area), and the attendant had a security concern! /;).
I am sure they will have the correct answer for you if you call them. We are mystfied and would love to know what they tell you.

No wonder, here in the US, children are not allowed to pray in public schools, as it might violate someone else's freedom of religion/speech! Maybe the attendant saw your pack of Marlboros and decided it is a violation of someone else's right to be in a designated smoke-free room/area (airport)

And for the folks debating on what clothing is required to enter a mosque, if you ever decide go to a Digambar Jain (a subfaith of Jainism) temple in India, you might find some people with no clothes at all! No discrimination there. In fact their monks are often seen in the nude, and yet they effectively practice abstinence!

And here we are debating why we need to cover our God given beautiful bathing suit with artificial fabric, to worship. I bet sitting up there he is amused when HE watches our head and faces covered! HE must be thinking, what foolish humans, who want to hide their head and faces in my sanctum! I can recognize each one of you even when you hide from me, sinners!

(Just throwing a little pun, don't be offended my friends).

A general knowledge is a general knowledge.
The same in all countries :P

-- I think you should know it by now,,, well it's great to learn!

General knowledge is just that...general.. meaning it's generally known by all that Paris is in France while London is in UK, but to expect it to be generally known that women and men pray separately in the muslim religion is stretching things a bit far I think? and....someone said they don't so...???

LS...I love your sense of humour! My cigs were still in my bag and my lighter (which I had to put through the scanner) was in my pocket.

Larry

I also went on one of those tour thingys..not sure if it was the mormons? It was advertised in our local paper...that it would be open for outsiders to visit for a couple of weeks so...I was curious. Something to do with seven levels and Joe public was obviously only given a tour of level one....is that the Mormons? I did enjoy it...mostly everything was white if I remember correctly?

I am not a Muslim and I do respect all religions. In my religion, our altars are Nature. We don't have temples. We create our sacred space, A long time ago (60's and before that) women had to wear veils in churches here in Brazil. Even nowadays you can't wear some kind of clothes like shorts or bermuds. It is respect. The same thing happens when you go to mosques.It is respect too.Here you still find some religions in which men are separated from women in some rites. Rituals are rituals. We have to understand and accept them so that we can accept people as they are with their idiosyncracies. I simply love our differences. They make each of us unique.

Vi veri veniversum vivus vici, first of all, may I know your name? Your short name? Because this one is damn long!

Secondly, I apologise that I said you were targetting me. Obviously, you weren't. I just thought that when he referred to all humanity being injust, he meant our religion is too. My bad, I shouldn't read between the lines from now on, I guess.

And a big fatty HAHA at Abed's answer to Nicko, whoever is coming in to pray and forgets about God for a veiled woman with her face/legs/hands unshowed should NEVER be named a muslim in my own humble opinion. There is another answer to that, a more logical reason to why men and women should not pray in the same room. It is something related to Doomsday and how humans are seperated. They won't stand in front of God together. And to pray (in Islam) means to stand in front of God. That's why.

^
No need for apologies. ^^,

My name is Gaurav. But you can call me whatever you want, as long as it isnt meant to deliberately insult me =)

No, I wasnt targeting you. Nor was Solus. What he meant to imply was, that an unfair behavior cannot be justified with logical analysis. Sometimes it is necessary to just accept, that the situation is out of hands. And the only possible action that one can take, is to simply move on, walk away.

When I visit these places of worship I abide by the rules of the country but...I was in my own country and, I feel that makes a huge difference here

^^
Hellon, just because I live in Lebanon, that doesn't mean that I will object on the way (for example) Indians pray or worship in a private place made for that purpose, even if it was MY country, it's still THEIR beliefs. That's called freedom and respect of other's thoughts and beliefs. Especially when being harmless.

You were not allowed because it's where men pray, I can guarantee the answer.

---
@ David, lol naa I doubt anyone who is convinced with their beliefs would be offended, and though it was a joke :P but I'll need to remind that:

"I can recognize each one of you even when you hide from me, sinners! "

^^

those who cover their heads, don't hide them from God, especially Muslims, because in Islam we believe that God knows what's in the mind, what's in the heart as well. And thus when you make a certain deed, you can hide your real intentions from anyone else, but not from God. He sees to the soul. but that's a totally different subject, Veil has it's own objectives...

http://english.bayynat.org.lb/WomenFamily/hajI.htm

here is a link where the role of Hijab (veil) is explained, the site is in English, you would find anything about Islam, if you would like to know more, or have any inquiries:

http://english.bayynat.org.lb/WomenFamily/

Very nice thread,
In short, every religon has it's own place of worship, and the fact that we are allowed to visit each others places of worship is there in the history, our religous figures have always done it, on the most revered of levels, we're talking about prophets and their decendents,
There could be many reaons to why you were not allowed in and I'd be glad to explain some
The first and I think the most accurate reason in your case would be the dress code,
Every religons has it's own dress code and if you abide by it, you will be granted entrence, and I'm not talking about female\male situation in here, I've seen it happen in lebanon where we wanted to visit this historical site that happens to be a chruch, (Harrisa) and while waiting in the que I saw a situation where a Female wasn't granted entrence because she wore something that showed so much flesh, the guard gave her a cloak to cover her self up and she was granted entrence, for us muslims as nana pointed out, it's a must that you enter a mosque bearfoot, or it's regarded as a high insult, because a mousqe is sacred and the reason behind it lies in the fact, that in prayer, there is no rich or poor, less fortunate and more fortunate, it portrayes a message that in prayer, we are all equals and the only one who's great is god.

Another reason could be, prayer time, and that would be out of pure respect, we pray 5 times a day, specfic timing and as abby pointed we face ourselves toward mecca while we do it, because there resides our Holy shrine if I may call it, I'm refering to the black squre with fancy gold side writing all over it if you have ever seen a picture,

Another angle to this story and here I try to clarify to nicko and answer his question here, yes we are allowed to pray in the same mousque as women and men if need by, due to any reason it could be, lack of space or any other reason, but even there, certain rules, where men would stand in rows 1st and women behind them, and no, the reason behind that is not segregation or preference of one sex over the other, the reason for that lies on a different certain set of rules regarding the (Imam) equivlent to priest since he is the guy who leads the prayer.
I'd be glad to expose these rules for you if need be, althout I doubt you'd be intrested :)
I hope this was in depth enough.

EB....I feel I was appropriately dressed, well for someone walking around in an Ausralian airport. My legs were covered as were my arms. I was wearing a scarf around my neck which could quite easily have covered my head. The point is...this room did not specify that it was for Islamic worship only..it just said Prayer Room so....if I felt the need to pray as a non islamic follower I feel I should have been allowed to do so.

---------------------

Nana...

Hellon, just because I live in Lebanon, that doesn't mean that I will object on the way (for example) Indians pray or worship in a private place made for that purpose, even if it was MY country, it's still THEIR beliefs. That's called freedom and respect of other's thoughts and beliefs. Especially when being harmless.
^^^^

I never said I objected to any religion having the right to worship it was more the fact that I was denied this right.

Normally I wouldn't...but I feel I must clear some things. One I said the world isn't fair, not any peoples or religion. Two my statement about women is quite correct as I said didn't say they weren't allowed access, but some parts are off limits to them.(I.E. segregation of males and females, Imam's chambers, etc.) I hope that clarifies those who misunderstood or other wise saw what they wanted my words to mean.

It's not that I'm not interested, its more I've always found religion is about subjugation no matter what sect and it seems there has always been segregation in religion, no amount of sugar coating can cover that, we see it in Christianity as much as any. Yet we see those barriers slowly breaking down, however I feel that's more due to survival as opposed to equality, although thats part of the equation...

And LP you are a clever dicky, I wouldn't have guessed that ;

Oh, thanks Nicky :)

I expected no less all the while hoping for more, yet you didn't disappoint, no not at all. For he that gives a tit for a tat is not engraving it upon their skin, but are merely smeared with the taint.

My obnoxious neighbors are really disquieting

:/

Maybe you should shift house... As obnoxious neigbours are ever so tiresome, it would be the right thing to do.

What ever happened to Harry Potter?

He remained scarred for life.

Who even watches this crap?

:S

I do, even read the books, put your glasses on and have a read, you could be him...

I've read all of Rowling, but I was lately caught up in Hunger Games series.

My daughters reading that series so took my two to see the movie and stayed awake though it, bonus ha... yet thought the movie was a little hollow suffice to say my kids LOVED it...

Enjoyed the Underworld series, though maybe it was just Kate Beckinsale I was intriqued with....

Larry, I would not have taken you for a Harry Potter or Hunger Games fan, hahaha. I just laughed out loud with delight :8-)

"I've always found religion is about subjugation no matter what sect and it seems there has always been segregation in religion, no amount of sugar coating can cover that, we see it in Christianity as much as any. Yet we see those barriers slowly breaking down, however I feel that's more due to survival as opposed to equality, although thats part of the equation..."

I agree with you here. I've studied religion in a few upper division classes and at the forefront of almost any large scale religion was the intention of one group of people to subjugate another group of people. As religion becomes more complex, we see more and more methods of control that benefit some people and harm others, all for the sake of remaining dutiful to God... so we are told, and so we tell ourselves.
Someone always benefits, and I'm not talking about benefiting by being more loved by God; I'm talking having more social and economic privileges. Hierarchies are enforced by religious doctrine. It's clever really.

But Jane,
poor people like me have nothing to do with social and economic privileges through loving God and religion....

Why do we look at the empty half of the cup and say piss on religion - it's just a shield/benefit for people!

Totally mistaken!
It's nt the religion that's bad. It is us. We are the bad ones.

---

I actually liked the Hunger Games because it reflects our current world through the fantasy one.

---

Man created religion not the other way round, and he's the one that uses it as a tool.

If you were born into a Christian family you would be Christian, born into a Muslim family a Muslim, that's where your teaching comes from that's where you are taught tolerance or intolerance of other religions as the case maybe

Have a think about it......look at the stars look at infinity and wonder..

The alternative is me an Atheist

I'm a dyslexic atheist, is there a dog?

Religion, or rather faith is mostly optimism. Something to hold onto when all is out of hands. Out of bounds. That some cosmological entity is playing our guardian. In the midst of violence and the mindless grudge, the ones at the bottom have very less to fight with.

Humans discriminate on every level in our society. The temples, churches, mosques, here people dont discriminate due to the fear of. . well. .god. Very few people are genuinely good while most bake their bread upon burning houses. I do not necessarily understand the parameters of religion, but I'm not pleased with its followers.

I do not mind that people follow their religion. They should. But forcefully implementing them on the populous is not appropriate.

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Oh Kate Beckinsale, was ravishing in the Underworld series. I think I watched the entire series just for her. I loved her more after Serendipity.

Solus...you are so funny and you made me laugh..you kcor nam!!!!