Weekly Contest Suggestions

Well, I typed out an answer in the other one only to find this thread and realize that mel alreadybsaid everything I said. Whoops. Anyway, I see some cool.ideas coming out here. Im excited to consider them more closely once im home.

Lol, Nana. That's true. Almost no one seems to be satisfied with the judges. Each term, accusations of favoritism/prejudice/low-quality picks are being thrown. That's pish-posh.

We don't need to reinvent the wheel...with new monthly and weekly competitions it gets all too complicated and tough on the judges

we can adapt the current system to running a monthly winner the judges would only have to vote once a month and the same poems would end up staying there if they are not changed each week (well I'm thinking they will?) each member can only vote once (that's not hard to monitor as you can see who nominates)

Once Janis returns we can get him to tweak the system even introduce anonymous voting if we so wish

I think a change we should make is that if a mod wants to volunteer for it, they should be able to judge as well.

The other problem is we don't have judges that are qualified to judge... and I'm happy to include myself in there...

We have poets that have been on here for 5 minutes, all of a sudden they are judges. I'm not blaming anybody or pointing any fingers but that's a fact. In many instances the mods have no choice but to elect them as there are no alternatives.. Nobody wants to be a judge. As I've said before its bloody hard work. Limit the number of nominations, limit it to once a month and that may help..

I know I won't put my hand up again under the current system I can't afford the time

In my opinion, the problem is not the judges. The problem is that the judges have no set of guidelines to pick a winner.

All of the poems from the weekly contest are written with different purposes. How can someone compare one poem with another one when they didn't write that poem with the same rules?

That's unfair...

That's why I am suggesting the monthly contest... Whoever wants to go in the front page... then participate and write a poem according to the rules of the contest then all of the poems will be judge more fairly.

It's impossible to keep everyone happy, and I don't think Colm's idea will work because the way I see it, the problem aren't the judges... the problem is the way judges should be judging.

and to me it seems that to judge the weekly contest is a chaos.. like I said how can someone judge a poem that is a vent to one that was written for a contest held in a club ( that may be a form of poetry)?

Which poem will have technique? which poem will have more imagery?

Do you see my point?

if not I don't know how else to explain.. but the way I see it this problem with the weekly contest will go on and on...and on because we are not addressing the main problem.

A part of me thinks that the "contest problem" will always be around, regardless, because people will have different opinions on what the best contest would be like. Maybe all we can do is continually tweak it to make it fit our needs as closely as possible. OR, maybe we need to lock down the rules and then say we'll never change it again, and eventually, it will be seen as sacred. Eh? Eh?

There are many large ideas here that we can still consider, but I see a couple of small changes that might make things run a whole lot more smoothly:

1. Create a larger judging pool. We've tried to do this by shortening terms... I don't know if it's had any effect, yet.

2. Lessen the number of nominations to 1 or 2. It would be annoying for those few weeks that you'd want to nominate more, but we're dealing with a limit already. It would decrease the work for the judges, and it would probably force people to read more widely before they used their votes. It might limit the diversity of the contestants, but it might boost "quality." It all depends on what we value most.

Edit: On the idea of judging guidelines.

This is an idea that's been toyed with before. I think it's a valid idea, but my concern is the inherent eventual subjectivity. If we come up with a rubric, grand, but if its going to be specific, we have to compile and agree on a list of requirements AND agree on their definitions. I am personally slightly pessimistic that this could be done easily. People would have to accept that we're all going to have slightly different definitions for things like "shows emotion" and "has good flow." Even things like grammar and form aren't as cut and dry as you'd think. Proper grammar varies over time, generation, and distance, and sometimes is intentionally tweaked, as we saw with e. e. cummings. Same with form. There are a bunch of different ways to do a haiku... would limiting the "proper" form to one squelch some creative originality? For these reasons, I would personally like to place few restrictions upon the judges, and trust them to take in all these areas and make an informed judgment.

I think cutting the amount of nominations to 1 or 2 is a good idea and certainly worth trying. My concern would be that people may leave their nominations to the last minute just incase a better poem gets posted towards the end of the week....this may cause a lot of work for the judges having to read all the poems in one or two days instead of having a week to read through them.

You bring up a good point regarding haiku Sibs. I see many of them on here and while they are all beautiful, a lot of them are not written in the way I was taught that they should be. This is the definition of the proper way I was taught how they should be written...

The essence of haiku is "cutting" (kiru).[1] This is often represented by the juxtaposition of two images or ideas[2] and a kireji ("cutting word") between them, a kind of verbal punctuation mark which signals the moment of separation and colours the manner in which the juxtaposed elements are related.[3]

A lot of these are great ideas, however to limit the amount of nominations one can do, or change it to a monthly contest... we need Janis. And waiting for him again is.. well kind of pointless. We need to try to focus our ideas on something we as members can do without needing an actual change in coding.

You can still run a monthly contest just have the judges vote once a month, the same poems will stay there and click over each week if they dont the Mods can just add them back..

Here are my thoughts on a short term soln, if they matter, from an impartial non-club members point of view:

1) Replacing the weekly by monthly may reduce the competitive spirit amongst members, and in turn reduce the number and variety we see each week. Also, many of us will not enjoy seeing the same 3 on the front page for a whole month (would look very dull), nor see the nomination list grow to 200 during that time. So, pretty sure this idea, may solve something but create a whole set of new one's.
2) Judging fatigue can be reduced effectively by increasing the judging pool and letting the judging panel rotate each week as suggested above and previously suggested in similar threads many times. e.g. For the 3 months in consideration choose 12-15 judges and offer them 1 week each per month (only 3 x in 3mths)....not too stressful at all for many. I think this will bring forth a number of busy but otherwise talented members (incl. untalented me) who cannot commit a whole block of 3 months, week after week. Also, many on the list may even agree to back up if someone from the panel for that week is unable to at the last moment. Then in the subsequent 3-month term, one if a new pool cannot be formed, allow the volunteers from the old pool to continue....many might elect to.
3) Judges can be up to 5 (i.e 3-5) any given week depending on how many are willing each week. A larger judging panel will eliminate the issue of favoritism in most weeks, as used to be. So less bickering on this issue.
4) Cutting the nominations to 2 may also be helpful, but isn't it Janis dependent, so what if he does not show up for a year?

I would bet if a volunteer vote is taken on #2 each 3-monthly term for senior members in a separate thread, many would come forth to volunteer, and then the mods can decide who to pick. No harm asking this qn to the community. Just some thoughts....

Having a monthly contest would make the win more meaningful therefore more competitive

the weekly contest is a bit blah blah if you ask me

Administering a weekly judging pool would be a nightmare, more work for the mods and hard to keep pace with
Tell everybody to only nominate once, I'm sure most will stick to it till Janis can update

Can I suggest this...just for the hell of it. Would the mods consider selecting 5 random members to do a one off judging of all the nominated poems....this week is too late so maybe for next week? The judges who are already in will also vote and the 5 selected judges will pm the mod account with their selections/comments....just to see if there is any really difference in choice?

"You can still run a monthly contest just have the judges vote once a month, the same poems will stay there and click over each week if they dont the Mods can just add them back"

^Good to see you, Nicko! The problem with the above is that the site automatically updates the front page each week. I can't say exactly what would happen if judges only voted once a month but as is when we don't step in and break a tie the site automatically breaks it. My concern is what if the site automatically chooses 3 poems each week because it's programmed to update the front page on a weekly basis. I don't think mods have a way that we can add the poems back if they change over, I've been fooling around with all the mod tools trying to figure it out and I don't think we have the option unless a poem is deleted from the site completely.

Lessening the amount of times a person can nominate is something worth considering; I've thought about this a few times after Abed suggested it a few months back. I think this is going to be something half the site will hate and half the site will love. For me if it helps the contest run better I am very much for the idea. I think members will put more thought into which they choose and if the nomination page wasn't anonymous one could use it wisely and check it to see if it's already been nominated. After all a lot of votes are wasted, after a poem is nominated once it's being considered for the front page so it really isn't needed to have 2 or 3 more nominations. This isn't something we can do until Janis returns but as Nicko has already stated all we can do is ask members to nominate once.

I like the idea of a monthly contest but if we were to have a monthly contest I'd prefer it to be ran the same way it is now. No having to submit your poem or push a button. Of course if we had a monthly contest it would need to be combined with the idea of members having only one vote or the judges will have triple the amount of poems to read per month. Also the way the format of contest is now, as Colm stated, I can't really find a way for it to be anonymous.

Darren, selecting judges from different continents is a difficult thing. We have a larger number of people in the states on here than anyone else. We already try and make sure we don't have judges from the same club, it's very rare occasion if we do. Bias and favourite is something we try and avoid and we do keep an eye on who judges are voting for to try and make sure such isn't happening.

Britt, I would love to be able to judge. I would be doing it already if I could however I think the reason why mods aren't able to judge is simply because we can see who the other judges are voting for. This was something implemented before I became a mod so I can't say I am 100% correct.

Hellon, if we were to do so what would it show other than the fact that each group of judge will have a different opinion on what is front page material?

Sorry guys, I completely forgot I was on the mod account! -Mel

It was just a thought I had...just to see if my theory about favouritism was wrong....get five judges that are clubless...just for one week and see if their choices are any different to the judges in place right now...

Hellon I don't think that would prove anything, only that people had different tastes. It would be too self-conscious to be 'fair' anyway: would the clubless members have an agenda to not vote for certain clubs? Anybody can call favouritism, not everybody is going to be happy with the picks each week. Best we can aspire to is that the judges are a) able/knowledgeable and b) are clear on their job. As people have said, this includes having a pool of judges for the mods to pick from and having guidelines for the judges to follow. These are things we can change, like Britt said we don't know when Janis will come back so I guess the monthly contest might be wishful thinking at the moment.

New suggestion: Should the host be changed? Nana has done it for ages now and done a good job, God knows (like judging) it requires a big effort so fair play to her. Maybe should the mod account do it again, I'm not sure but it must be harder for normal members to follow votes if they can't see what poems have the votes? I'm not sure if Britt was a mod when she did it or if she could see the votes on the poems.

It was just a suggestion...just for the hell of it...and..it could prove or not prove the whole idea of favouritism...anyway..I still think it's an intersting thought and...it would only be for one week.

Colm...I never even thought of this one...just as the judges get tired...I'm pretty sure Nana could be too so....

Bermuda Triangle (edited post)

Nana...honestly...I have no idea what you are referring to here?

have the voting tools too) so if there is a site glitch, like last week, we had votes going somewhere else, so had to cast votes for the right poems.
^^^^

what does this mean for example???

Bermuda triangle (edited)

I'm sorry..I know I sound neandethal...and I am..I guess.but honestly...I really don't understand is all

There is a site glitch, if you cast 4 points for a poem let's say A poem written by Mel. The four points would go for another poem, due to an unexplained reason. So THE HOST, or any mod, should give Mel another 4, in order for the vote to show up

^^^^

Definately do not understand this part..no...still don't understand any of your previous post just yet..

There you go dear :) edited them off! Don't want you lost there.

I will explain, or reexplain, if possible, when I am back from university. So no body else gets lost, I saved the posts however.

be back at night XD Love and peace and shine

Hellon: The parallel independent 5 judge comparison has been done (for a diffferent reason though) earlier this year, and you participated in it....though I organized it to test a different way of scoring. It did not prove what you were looking for, simply that there may be a different way to score the contest to get better results....I still stand by it, as it would definitely dilute/make visible any favoritism. Here is the link: (Edit: Not sure if I can bring up a link > 6months old without permission...but you can search for it using search tool under Experiments with the 1-5 scoring system, last commented on on 1-26-12.)

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The weekly rotations in the pre-selected judging panel should not be difficult for mods, using he powertools they have, don't they use to do it to get subs in place anyway util recently? I think a lot of people can be recruited if the judging rotations were to take place as suggested above.