Very important

Here I open this thread to ask every P & Q member to be a person full of respect in every face of his/her dealing behavior with other members. This also requires the necessity of applying and obeying the P & Q rules. It's OK if you'd like to share information and feelings through normal chat or penning poems and hence reinforcing and supporting relations between members but sometimes I notice the hesitation of some members towards others through putting down and insulting their religions or their personalities or even their experience and some other times mentioning the bad situation between their countries, accusing them with things they are innocent and away from. An active member should not mention these things in this site since this increases the criticism and quarrel and decreases respect between members. Well these are not the required morals of P & Q members. Some members do mean to ignite the sedition fire between other members who are/were originally friends. We the poets and poetesses need to get every benefits of our site, away from quarrel, critical situations and fighting. Finally as a matter of fact I hope our moderators would help us to reach and show the optimum level of respect towards each other.

I feel bad for you that no one has replied. You can understand why of course. Our moderators are doing a great job, our members know the rules (even if they occasionally break them, they know) so it seems rather odd that someone who is perhaps unknown to many people makes a post out of nowhere reminding everyone what they already know.

I am not saying you shouldn't have, by all rights you have the right it just felt a bit odd to me.

The website is relatively drama free and I always feel you need a certain amount of passion and even friction to keep things interesting.

I can't speak for Khalid, but I can relate to what he is saying, Khalid has been a member for a bit now, and he is active, but I understand with what he is saying here... Many members read the discussions on here but shy away from posting their opinions or feelings, because a few members have a tendency to "rip your opinion" apart... Not everyone is as bold as others and it can make a person shy away from sharing their views.... I don't think Khalid's post is odd at all... Hes possibly speaking for the members (such as myself) who wish for respect to be given when touchy subjects are discussed so that more members are comfortable to post their opinions.

Hey guys. As a person aside from moderator status, it pains me to find people are feeling this way, and I want to help alleviate the situation.
Since I am a moderator, maybe I can do something.
If you feel like a rule is being broken or respect to other members is not being paid, you can draw attention to specific instances by PM'ing one of the moderators and asking them to take a look into the matter. The least we can do is PM that member who is being overbearing and act like a private mediator to iron out tension. I'm sure most of the members on PnQ don't mean to come off rude or condescending, so sometimes all it takes is a reality check.
We prefer a hands off approach, but when it comes right down to it, we are here to uphold rules and if one is being broken, bring it to our attention. Hopefully we catch most stuff on our own. Member help is nevertheless appreciated.

And here I was thinking its actually a lot nicer and tame compared to a few years ago.. we have tons of new people popping up on the boards. I suggest people lurk before jumping in... You get to know people and their posting styles that way. And never assume there is malice in the tone of a post. So often I say things and people call me out for being rude or mad, but really its just the way its read, and a lot of people are that way (Kevin is one of them).

The debate threads with respect to any religion or politics, well those aren't for everyone. I used to love them and now I just roll my eyes because its insults rather than facts.. so why bother. If there is a thread that isn't your style, don't participate and maybe create a new thread for others to talk about :)

I dont think its odd aswell, and here I am an "unkown" member (by the way whether your known or not doesnt matter) wants to share her opinion. I totally agree with Khalid and Maple Tree, and I think some things that are brought up here, must be stopped, such as religions cause they will never end. Im sorry but now Im talking in general, not just religion debates, some come in and debate about things they think they know, while they actually dont, which is nonsense, that gives others a wrong veiw over them, and thats bad..

Khalid and everyone else who posted here, you are all correct in your positions/statements. Sometimes people do post direct insults at each other, which I agree should'nt be overlooked when extreme and condescending.

But, today we live in a modern world. We have freedom of speech and religion (at least here in the West), so we will see debates on differing viewpoints on politics, religion, philosophy and science. Most times, when someone questions the wisdom of ancient teachings in religion and their influence on newer events, or political events they really want to hear a good argument both ways. However, if people fail to defend their position/belief and ignore what is really being asked in context of what is going on the world today, we are capitulating our right to be better educated by learning from a discussion. So, sometimes people will challenge religion or politics, but that does not necesarily mean they are blasphemists or ignorant. After all, they have a right to learn too.

These are open threads, ripe for anyone's views, after all we live in a democratic society.

Religion is a path to self improvement only, and not an excuse to attack the non-believer.

Quote #5 from the Kite runner's (Khaled Hosseini) page may be worth a read.
http://www.shmoop.com/kite-runner/religion-quotes-2.html

It's a bad decision to blindly follow any religon
That's a given

Sorry but again an unnecessary disussion is started. Yes there's what we call freedum of speech,but not the freedum to insult, provide wrong information, and and make fun of things that you think you know. People search the internet for information, but thats not always right, sometimes its better to ask someone who is involved in that thing, such as religion, many information in the internet are false. The internet is a mix of information some maybe right while others wrong and unfortunately people choose what to believe is true and thats wrong. We want to learn things, but not just from the internet, lets learn from books and by asking too thats the best way to learn...

Thats all I want to say, Im out of here..

Let them stand undisturbed as monuments of the safety with which error of opinion may be tolerated, where reason is left free to combat it.
Thomas Jefferson, Inaugural Address 1801

If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter.
George Washington

It is by the goodness of God that in our country we have those three unspeakably precious things: freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, and the prudence never to practice either of them.
Mark Twain

I have changed my style on here recently, I love an argument and I love drama. One thing we all share is passion, which is why we post our poetry.

Rather than get involved with a debate where a usual few jump on you I have decided to write poetry that people can jump on instead.

I too am bored with religious debates, war this and war that. After a slog at work it is nice to sit down, write something that divides opinion and sit back.

not get involved in a slanging match on the main boards for all to see.

edit**** I wouldn't class Khalid as somebody unknown to many people. Check out his stuff he is fast becoming the 'formed poetry' master.

^^^Did I say something different than Larry or Rabea or Khalid? No one is throwing any insult on anyone. Please read my post carefully.

All I said was that we stand behind pillars of enlightened wisdom in a democratic world from what we learn, from whatever sources we can find. I find "Googling" topics very satisfactory, and perhaps that is the reason why it is the world's most popular search engine...amazing ways it can search multiple databases (many books included) and provide us links to knowledgebases in a matter of seconds. We still have a right to challenge the wisdom of the websites with which we do not agree, but then we need to know how to debate politely. If you "tape" someone's mouth shut or prevent someone from debating when you disagree with them, it does not bode well for freedom of speech inthese forums. Please read all my posts in Ms. Sunshine's last thread. Were they offensive or derogatory? My last questions were never answered before the thread got "locked out" unfairly. Unfortunately, we don't live in a communist world or the dark ages anymore, so there is always a place for civil discussion may it be religion, philosophy, science or politics.
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And Rabea: "It's a bad decision to blindly follow any religon
That's a given"

^Completely agree.
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And I think Khalid, Maple Tree and Wildflower I do understand and agree with some portions of your concern.

If we offer people the opportunity to express themselves and their opinion, we can't be someone who is easily shocked. We should all be able to say how we feel/what we think, get passionate... But seriously, why get offended? It really doesn't matter. If you think someone's being a prat, don't dignify their comment with a response.

In other words:

Don't go on offending people; neither become offended

^^^
I didn't say you were?!!

maybe you should read mine again......

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to blindly follow anything is a bad decision. we are not sheep. Although some are lambs to the slaughter.

Sorry was that meant for me?! Plainly confused! Haha

No, we posted at the same time, it was for the post above yours.

Darren: and your response to my post ?? My post was for 3 posts above my last post ^^^, not even directed to yours ha-HA. I guess internet symbolism can get people confused.

And I do not think Rab's post was directed toward you anyway, David.

Lol I'm cracking up reading this because were all confused as to who is responding to what post.

I have a difficult time accepting the concept of freedom of speach when I hear speeches from Obama and Romney alike
Somewhere down the line these gentlemen decided to play Judge, throwing down verdicts and justifications that are largely out of context,
It's a machine at work, a trend republicans and democrats use to spread fear amongst the youth, my problem with this fear that I feel in many ways is directed to Islam at first and Arabs 2nd, and it's obvious that this fear festers,
The way they talked made me feel like my kind is sponsoring terror in every way possible and quite frankly if my eyes haven't seen different I would have fell for both of their bullsh*t.
I honestly feel when someone takes it upon themselves to play judge lawyer and jury will end up contradicting themselves badly, which is almost certian to my belife,

The talk about Iran, when iran only has the milltary capability of detterence isn't even relative, and the genreal generalization that Pakistan as a whole is uncivilized was painful to hear, and while i know this is rambling but for the love of all that Is holy, don't take what these men say as solid truth, because it couldn't be further from the truth. Do your own research,that should play a vital and pivotal role in understanding how hypocrites our political repralesensatives maybe, the thing that annoyed me the most about today debate is how I felt how inferior we have become, and how my own faith is decided by someone who doesn't even care about my mere existence, and I'm no expert when discussing the demotic issues of the states but the forigen policy, god it fails

^^ That is the idea! And Larry, you have been away too long, from the scene.

Rab has me on his favorite list, so he has had a heart transplant. I suggested he marry a Christian or a Jew, or a Hindu (all children of Allah!) in another thread and see what happens...but Ms. Sunshine came in barging to his rescue, abhorrent to the idea, fearing that he may lose his religion.
Now, I have a strong desire to convert this thread to a Buddhist thread. ha-HA
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Edit: Must have posted it at the same time as Rab. Now, I am wondering about the heart transplant? If it will last or be rejected.
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Politicians have to show their toughness, and so there are many reasons to their campaign statements...one for sure is votes. American policy is still about finding peaceful solns, not inciting more trouble in already war-torn areas. Obama fulfilled his last election promise of pulling combat American troops out of Iraq...the last of them were pulled out Dec 2011. His next deadline is 2014 for Afghanistan, stable or not, in both today's Presidential and the previous Vice-presidential debate. Republican strategy is to keep military hardware mfrs in business, so they do not agree with this pull out (in principal) though they may seem to say during election season.

Marrying a Jew wouldn't be a problem bud
The culture is almost one in the same in so many aspects
I belive the same could be said for any other religon since the only thing you need is a common ground and we all find that in worshiping the same god

I don't have a problem with you on a personal level
, you see me and you grow from very different backgrounds and have a certian mindset on the world that is fully dependent on How we interpret our day to day events
We both at the end are flawed humans that could only wish to bring peace and blessing to everyone
Our realities however are different.
Chaos and uncertainties, that's how I see my part of the world
And whether this is origanted from external forces or internal disputes the truth of the matter is the only one largely affected are the masses which happen to be my generation and the ones that follow
And I don't have to look far here,
Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, Egypt , bahrain, Iraq, Iran, Yemen.

Some of you might not even recognize the names of these countries but you have to acknowledge the fact that the stance of the world leader havent changed
The rich are getting richer
The poor are becoming poorer
And the world has officially become a jungle where survival of the fittest applies.
Who knows, I could be ignorant and uninformed at the young age of 23 but I have lived enough to realize that the world is ruled by people who benefit from spreading mayham and chaos, as to where we begin to fight the odds I am uncertain of, but I can tell you this, we are tired of being the black sheep in every scenario, it eventully has to stop somewhere

The rich are getting richer
The poor are becoming poorer

^ First, I have to disagree with this. The US is currently in record debt $ 3 trillion, after achieving a near wipe out of debt during the 2nd Clinton Presidency. Who do we have to blame for this?
Osama bin Laden and his creation of fear by attacking the US and his followers inspired by his style of radicalism, according to economists. Second, Bush era mistakes...sending troops into Iraq on erroneously supplied German intelligence, when Afghanistan issue was still incomplete. Now, we still have an unwanted war in Afghanistan....the longest in American history, as of yesterday, 11 yrs to be exact, thanks to Taliban and Al Qaeda (who claim their version of the holy book states to destroy us infidels) with 1.38 trillion dollars of US taxpayer money spent to date between the 2 wars...something that could have gone to betterment of the society and charitable causes around the world (The US is still the biggest charitable donor to the World).
Thirdly, the US is still very close to a Great depression if another financial crisis (military, natural-drought/earthquakes) comes around unexpectedly. Just to revisit the famous Romney goof, 47 % of Americans today are poor enough that they fall below the taxation limit, and draw on survival aid from the govt. Does that answer this question to some extent?

And the answer to the qn why the poor are becoming poorer....your guess is as good as mine? The countries/lands you mention are some of the richest amongst oil resources compared to oil dependent nations, so why?
Is it not enough innovation, education to survive against odds? Fighting, etc. Plus corrupt/greedy bureaucrats, dictators, Kings, etc. Plus, the constant quibbling between political rivals and influence mongers (Iran and its creation the Hezbollah, Syria its ally and its dictator who promises to wage war to the end, anarchy in post-Gaddafi oil rich Libya, amongst others...a never ending list).

(and perhaps lastly but surely...not enough Jews (the shrewdest business people in the world), to run the business side in the nations you mentioned...all (800,000-1,000,000 ) "left peacefully" (according to LP in the last thread) donating $6 billion of property (land, businesses) to their Arab neighbors out of their goodwill (they are not known for their philanthropy) on their way out to kiss the soil of their Holy land!)
So the real question of rich and poor is for you people to address, have more war and misery (Iran's way at present...with their currency sinking 40% just because they break away from the world community - no one trusts them) or seek a peaceful solution without nuclear or military solns, and use their oil revenue for betterment of their people and develop trade and acceptance with the rest of the World.

Weren't they all from the same genetic mother in Arab lands, before the religions divide them 2000 years ago, and brought on the never ending wars that till date show no sign of abatement?

Hence, solution: Don't fight a Jew, marryone and get rich!

A lonely soul, When did I say that "you" insulted someone? I was saying thats what is happening here, as people take freedum of speech to use it for their own well, some insult, provide false informatin, and make fun of things, and they say ooooh thats freedum of speech. I wasnt pointing at anyone, I was talking in general.
And about the internet, I didnt say always, did I? google is a search engine, that leads to other websites, so it in some points maybe be not right. I am a google user too, and I use it on daily bases..

Regarding what Kevin said that he feels bad for me that no one has replied, I can see that most of you have replied to my questions! I wish if Kevin will realize that the PNQ seem to be such a big and marvelous family, rather than a community of monopoly and here I thoroughly watch that they apply the famous saying "One for all and all for one" instead of being oneself "odd". I can't hide my feelings first as a member in the PNQ large family and second as a muslim towards those who supported my situation. I can feel that most of you have got good ideas about my profile and my activities, especially Maple Tree, Wild flower, Darren and A Lonely Soul. I'd like to thank them for their support. It's not the matter how often I appear in the mainboard because if you search you'll find more members quite hidden in their clubs feeling shy to collaborate with those in the mainboard, like me. I, myself, tried several times not to appear there in the mainboard to avoid collision with some members who do not show respect or even interest to what I present and say. Thanks you all for the sharing and showing your points of view.

Ok...I'm going to put myself on the line here...now that we've got you here Kalid and Wild Flower...are your posts referring to me?....I would love for you both to be very honest here....I'm a big girl...I can take it but....most of all...now that you are both here....I really don't want you to disappear once more so....you can pm me if you prefer?

* Anyone else who feels they have a gripe can also add...no worries... I promise I will try to listen without arguement...just for 2 hours I would imagine haha!!!

Khalid: Its the first time for me to appear in the mainboard as well..

Im not referring to anyone here, I am just saying it in general, why do you people think its you?
My posts here arent pointing to anyone in specific, I read lots of threads that interests me, and I saw what was happening in them, by posting these I didnt specify anyone. My first post was a bit specific only...

Guess a few of us may feel you were aiming at us and...yeah ..I'm giving everyone the opportunity to say so without retribution?

Surely you must have someone in mind or your statement doesn't have any ground?

*I'm still up for anyone who has a real gripe with me...

If I had someone specific in mind I would've said it from the beginning, Im not afraid of anyone.

Im out of here, I wont comeback unless its something serious that has me in it..

Your opinion is as equal as mine...I'd be very sorry to see you leave so soon after you have just found us...and this is not sarasm...very geniune...

Hellon I wasn't refering to you neither was Wild flower but I rather was refering to Kevin as a special manner. Nobody have mentioned your name overhere so please try not to misunderstand. I really was injuried when Kevin said that "Islam is christianity plus bad ideas" because this touches all muslims in the world and hence I can't keep listening with no reply. That's it. I hope you got my point.

Nobody mentioned anyone so I was left wondering. Yes, I know I can become passionate when I don't get my questions answered in a coherent manner but....that doesn't mean I don't care....it just leaves me feeling very frustrated.

You sound like a really nice...calm...person so...if I have any more questions..perhaps I'll just pm you and cut all this crap out..OK?

Never be frustrated Hellon, you are kept in many hearts in the PNQ. If I've something towards you, a question or a demand, I'd have PMed you. I know you'd have a big heart to answer.
If you really need anything, any question I'll be much glad to be the first one to answer. Welcome every time Hellon

Well...I demand nothing Kalib but thank you for your answer...hey man...don't you think it's about time you added an avatar????

You'll laugh at me if I tell you I tried several times to do so but simply no avatar of what I chose has fit.

I'll find a site for you....let me get back...

Http://www.shrinkpictures.com/create-avatar/

First look at the requirement for this site ...think it may be 130 X 150...not sure...and just modify the picture to suit...hope this helps??

Thank you Hellon for the sweet help. I'll check what I can do.

It Worked??? haha!!!!

YOU did me that favor Hellon thank you