Tithing?

Just watched a show in this earlier and everyone is up in arms about this religious group called Hillside...think that was the name...how they want 10% of members income but ....the catholic religion used to ask for that years ago....that's why I left so...to me it's nothing new really. Just wondered what people around the world think about tithing....should you have to pay to attend church (that's what this all boils down to)..if you can't afford to pay...should you not go or go and feel inferior because you can't contribute....

Their income which was $55M last year was tax free I might add.

The only time I ever saw anyone escorted from a church was an old lady that was drunk and the priest did not request it though it was hard to hear his sermon over her ranting. I am not saying that it has never happened in any church I am saying I have not witnessed it . I think most priest I have observed hate to talk about money though they are pressured to by bishops and some church members. Most provide documentation in the form of envelopes I think for tax purposes

Tax Purposes? Religions are treated like charities...here anyway and that means they're tax free. This Hillside outfit are based in America and it said the $55M they made last years was also tax free...

My family all went to chapel when I was young and these brass plates where spread around....I remember my dad saying...you pay to get in...you pay while you're in (that's when the brown envelopes with the 10% of your earning were put in) and then you pay to get out....collection plates they were called. My family grew up on the bones of our arses that money could and should have been spend on feeding us ..leaves a bitter taste in my mouth still...I would never let any of my kids be deprived as a result of relgion.

Oh my gosh Hellon!!! and frankly if your actually a religious person and have done no REAL sin then you don't have to go to church in my opinion i mean God or whatever religion you have will be there in that same church it's the belief that he's or the denty is there i think i mispelled some words sorry!!! but like i said it's true of that but personally i'm an atheist but i used to be religious when i was a kid so i'm sorry for you Hellon and it's true that's just wrong

Seriously? Kicked out if you don't tithe?? Never heard of such. Thats going against a lot of what the bible says goodness...

My view on tithing is not "pay to go to church". I'm a Christian, and the church I attended my whole life was bible based, my Pastor never sugar coated anything.

Deut 14:22 Be sure to set aside a tenth of all that your fields produce each year.

This is just one example of a verse that talks about giving ten percent to the Lord (church)

Why I do it: vvvvvv

Mal 3:8-9 "Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me. "But you ask, 'How do we rob you?' "In tithes and offerings. 9 You are under a curse-the whole nation of you-because you are robbing me.

When we don't tithe we are robbing God...My church has always remained very open about finances, about what charities they support, what they do, which is how a church should be. We give to God and its nice when a church tells you where your money is going, because quite frankly, there are rotten churches out there that use it for personal reasons or think of it as their pay. Which is sooooo wrong. I'd say I was fortunate enough to find a church that doesn't hoard the money and never tell you where it goes.

To me, its important. God has blessed me with so incredibly much. Everything I do I do it for Him, because of Him, and all he asks for is ten percent. That is so little! I make 1000 bucks, I give 100...I still have 900 left! Thats a lot.

Now a church who kicks people out because of it is absurd. I think they should encourage it yes, because it is the word of God, but never make one feel bad for not giving...Not everyone are believers, not everyone knows about the church or God, not everyone is mature in their relationship with Him, so to invite people (new people, oblvious to biblical verses), then tell them to leave if they do not give is NOT showing them the love of God..thats really discouraging to hear to be honest.

I never said they would kick you out...I said you would perhaps feel inferior if you couldn't present your tithe.

I think you still live at home Chels and the remaining 90% of your income is probably enough right now but...when you have a mortgage, utility bills, school fees etc....that 10% could go a very long way.

I had a very different catholic experience . I received eight years of catholic education worth more than my dad ever paid. I was lazy and was born with asperger syndrome symptoms . It seemed the nuns and lay teachers spent eight years trying to get me off of cloud nine.

http://george-santayana.org/catholicism.htm

Straying from the original post Mike...I don't really care about anyone's beliefs here..just about having to pay if you wish to worship in a church/temple that expects money to do so...

Ooooooh that's very different

never mind

http://youtu.be/qtkHW-RtTv0

Sorry Hellon I was thinking about an oxymoron called "organized religion" I still debate Rikki on another site . I offer sacrifices sometimes in another form.

I want to confess that I have not given ten percent where I go to church overall

I don't think you hate your brothers and sisters for judging you. If they are making you feel that you don't pay enough to pray it could be time to cut out the middle men, if you know where I am coming from?

http://youtu.be/ZKd4yHVP_Ac

I have seen folks that are not able to go to a church or a temple I think the Good Lord has a pray as you go plan.

Mmm...these's nothing here to say you have to tithe Mike so....your point?..Sorry..I should have said ..I did note that you don't.

So...if you don't why paste all this stuff???

I will have to look pathe up.
My point is that if anyone goes to church to see how everyone sees them they are pretty much missing the whole point

"...the catholic religion used to ask for that years ago"

Just like I missed the point of your thread lol

If you're making fun of me right now...whooooooooooooosh! I no longer go to church because my memory was fried as a child...the catholic religion and many others still ask for a tithe to this day....the whole point of this thread was just something that appeared to be 'new'yet wasn't in my lifetime... with these new Hillsiders or what ever they are called...I do know they moved into marketing young talent...I recall previous contenters from Pop Idol...or whatever being members of this religious group! I just wanted to know what other religions around the world felt about possible explotiation?

I am sorry Hellon but you started out by saying you just watched the hillside bla bla bla
Did you ever think that we did not watch that therefor can only respond our own experiences

It just looks like you are just trying to make a statement on how you feel that churches should be taxed like everyother service or good known to man

I thought you knew me better than that the YT was to laugh at myself

I have no illusions about what me or you are writting in this discussion having a profound effect on how churches are payed for

Sorry I double posted

http://youtu.be/UjaEATsg1qw

Also enjoy Hellon's powerful lyrics produced by kiko
http://youtu.be/lc9m0acxgUI

You are a great poet Hellon I wish my conversation was stimulating enough for you

http://foodflowersherbsandlife.wordpress.com/2011/10/24/gethsemani-abbey-peaceful-silence/

Michael...what I was trying to say is this....I could...you could...anyone could open up a business and call it a religious church and get away without paying the tax dollar....come on...who wa s that Bakker guy who did it....yeah he got bunged up in the pokey eventually but..how many tax free dollars could he/did he get away with?

OK...The catholic church...lets look at that...one of the older religions one of the wealthiest...how did it get that way? People are paying money to believe...believe in what exactly? and...the poor man...who possibly still belives in god over greed is caught in the middle.

Your responses are always stimulating BTW!

Hmm tithing,

I'm catholic and I have heard by people that we are supposed to give 10 percent of our income, however, when mass starts they welcome any new visitors without charging them or kicking them out for not giving 10 percent. And also, how can I say it? When one becomes a member of a church, at least the one I am in, each family contributes with either 5,10,20,50,100 dollars or whatever each one can give. We as members are given some type of envelope to enclosed it and it has the name of the family so towards the end of the year, they send a letter saying how much money the family gave, that way it could be deduct it from their income to pay taxes... Also the contributions given goes to pay the mantainance of the church, to the priest I believe, and also to the programs they have.

I for once have nothing against giving a contribution to church as it is also my home and just as my home it needs mantainance and maintainance requires money.

If one feels guilty for not being able to give money, then one can volunteer and render services to the church.
In my opinion the contributions given are to take care of our church whether monetary or by giving service.

as far as other people plotting scams and taking advantage of peoples belief... That's another story that shouldn't be attributed to the religion. That's why is a good thing that churches discloses in what they spend the money on.

I do live at home you're right.

However my mom owns her home. Has always tithed. She divorced from my dad 4 yrs ago and went completely broke due to all the money she spent in having to buy and renovate a new house. . There were times we couldn't even buy groceries, yet she still tithed, and money would randomly show up.....a check she got underpaid for from an old job sent her 200 bucks, a family member we hadn't talked to in a while randomly sent 100, she got more from her taxes than expected......those are just top 3 examples I can think of when my moms bank account literally said $3.00 and money appeared in different ways. I don't believe in coincidence. I think its blessings, when you give to God he's not going to let you struggle.

I do however see what you're saying Hellon. I know a couple people who feel really insulted and turned off when a church confronts the tithing subject, but its a part of Gods word. It has to be preached about, but I think churches need to approach it in the right way.

I don't think there should be a set percentage.

once you start setting a fixed amount and demanding then you are walking into 'cult' territory.

Then again isn't the catholic faith just one big cult anyway?

I guess even Peter thought it was abnormal to be appointed pope ,maybe even bizzare. Offerings are nothing new and recorded at least proverbially in the story of Cain and Abel some believe god means "to sacrifice to" and you may be surprized to find that most ancient cultures built atars to offer sacrifice . I don't believe you are or Santayana was trying to bash catholicism among the schisms and protest in christianity. Out of twelve disciples one betrayed, one denied, and another doubted , yet I am also guilty of believing we should be a little more "organized" after 2000 some odd years.

"The word cult in current popular usage usually refers to a new religious movement or other group whose beliefs or practices are considered abnormal or bizarre by the larger society." wiki

Maybe Hellon will understand why I have given this so much thought

Then Jesus said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's."

Jesus seemed to be fine with most of the Roman authorities ,but many pharisees and high priest were very annoyed at his criticism of turning the temple into a forum of commerce

"Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's."
^^^

It's a lovely thought Mike but...I think we are both wise enough to know it doesn't often happen this way....

As for your theory on Cult being a modernisation...you cannot be serious??? (My computer is, once again, in french mode so...Oh La La)

It will be interesting for you to translate
Not to go off topic but in LP's thread you seemrd to be interested in burial customs . I started to share Thomas Merton's joke about him becoming a hillbilly monk in reference to your hillside church theme .Merton was one of the few monks buried in a casket because he died in Tialand (No pun intended to the ti/the theme. Brother Alban who remembered Merton at the abby was buried as the rest of the monks face down without a coffin http://youtu.be/e_pim5f-j6Q
Merton had a deep respect for eastern mysticism and met with the Dalai Lama. I could ramble all day, but to quote Kahlil Gibran an excommunicated catholic often quoted by catholic priest and bishops ' when we give of our posessions we give very little it is when we give of ourselves that we truly give

"As for your theory on Cult being a modernisation..."
Are you referring to my quote from wiki that I forgot to put in qoutation marks?

"It's a lovely thought Mike but...I think we are both wise enough to know it doesn't often happen this way...."

I think Caesar was an excellent metaphor for government and even today many have an issue with discerning religion and God?

Does anyone believe the evil associated with religion is intrinsic?

I give my money to a few select charities, but the church isn't one of them. They have enough money already and I'm not really a fan of supporting an organization that doesn't have the balls to sort out its own pedophiles.

Sorry to be so harsh and blunt, but did any of you know they have a big discussion in vatican city about what to do about these pedo priests, soemone suggested a "one strike and you are out" rule...and it was down voted and not passed.

Yeah, you aren't getting my money.

Three televangelists were discussing how to split the tithes they received between the operation of their ministries versus their own use.

Minister one said he draws a large circle & steps in the middle. Then he throws the money in the air. What stays in the circle he keeps, what falls outside goes to the ministry.

Minister two draws a straight line, stands on it & throws up the money. What falls on the left he keeps & what falls on the right goes to the ministry.

Minister three throws the money in the air and "whatever God wants, I'm sure he'll keep it."

A man came in where a church secretary was seated and said I want to join this dang church(stronger though)
The secretary ran to the pastor and complained the man was rude
The pastor came in and sternly asked the man what his problem was
The man said he just won the jack pot in a five million dallar lottery and was looking for a dang church to support

The pastor said "I see, and this bimbo is giving you trouble?