Boston Marathon Tragedy

"I have nothing to say to you in response. I wish not to antagonize a 17yr old"

And I don't feel like antagonizing a 60 year old but don't tempt me.

"but yet you jump in everytime with salvo's directed against me."

Oh, no, I don't. I'm sure it's just the internet. :)

"So go in Peace and try to sort your life out in King Bashar's kingdom, who has been responsible for 70,000 deaths, millions of refugees in neighboring states, and hundreds of thousands orphaned, since he started his brutal campaign to retake power. Couldn't he simply have stepped down and offered to conduct a democratic election instead of conducting a war wth dissidents?"

Ha. Democratic election? King Bashar's kingdom? We'll see if you're going to say that when the revolutions start in KSA (Kingdom of Saudi Arabia - the country that feeds your government oil for free and leaves the public starving).

You're reading too much wikipidea, sir.

I keep explaining the problem in Syria, but you don't actually read what others post, do you?
70.000 deaths? Where did you get this number from? 2 millions were killed by Al Qaeda outsiders, not by our president.

Seriously, I have never met anyone who's as self-contradictory and stubborn and ignorant as you, mr.

Now, peace.

Noura: Took me a while to get back here, sorry. But, now I am here, how can I not respond to your insults and derogatory language. :)

FIRST: Here is my source for the 70000 dead in Syria. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_civil_war
These were UN gathered statistics, updated as of Feb 12, 2013.
Can I now have your source for "2 million killed by Al Qaeda outsiders" from a reputable (non Syrian govt) source please?

SECOND: Your quote above-"revolutions start in KSA (Kingdom of Saudi Arabia - the country that feeds your government oil for free and leaves the public starving" ....a nasty anti-US statement on your part (for which you of course will have no remorse), is shallow and hollow.

So let me educate you a bit on this so called "oil dependency" of the US on middle-east. Today, the US produces 55% of its own crude, and imports 45% - of this the majority comes from Canada (29%), Mexico (9-15% varies by year). Remaining from other countries, incl. the Persian Gulf. The import from Saudi is only 9-15% since 2009.
http://www.eia.gov/cfapps/energy_in_brief/foreign_oil_dependence.cfm

So, in reality the US dependence is <6.5% of Saudi oil most recent years. That amount is "peanuts" to a country like US...so your theory that Saudi's "feeds" and starves us or dictates foreign policy...is also worth "peanuts" as well! Please make sure you research your sources well, before calling people "self-contradictory and stubborn and ignorant".. I did also take it as a personal insult, unprovoked...that is why I finally decided to respond to you.
If you had simply quit "pegging" me, I would not have bothered to respond...you are just 17, a tender age to learn and be nice, and no adult in their right mind would pick on people at your age unless significantly provoked. Yet, you decided to throw me some insults across the net. If you carefully read each sentence and word I have never written a single "personally" insulting word in this thread for you or anywhere anyone. I would sometimes disagree with the content, e.g.: Gaurav's presumptions in this thread when I find it insulting to my belief or country, but I do not go about throwing personal insults. Re: Mr. Bashar, or presence of American troops elsewhere, there is a whole thread for that still open, so there was really no need to bring him in this thread.

THIRDLY: Noura, quit fabricating things on a personal level...it is quite insulting and derogatory. Here you purposely state my age as "60"...dream on! You did do it on purpose, didn't you? You are a tender 17, and that is a good age to be, because it will never return again, but to throw overage insults at anybody, is inappropriate and malicious.

FOURTH (For both Gaurav & Noura): This thread started as a show of respect for the Boston tragedy, until both Gaurav and you came in and left maliciously worded statements, which really brought out quite a bit of annoyance, and hence my response to you folks. The others were wise (and unwise), and perhaps unpatriotic as well by not responding to the two of you. I came to this country 25 + years ago, but today the freedom and respect I have gotten here from people that I did not grow up with is vastly incomparable to my country of birth. So, I have a lot of respect for the Flag and the founding principles of this nation, its people and the multitude of hard working immigrants that aspire for the American dream.... and I would not hesitate to defend again against such maliciously worded statements. (And, Gaurav unlike most of your colleagues, I did not come here on a H1B or a "relative" visa or from an oil rich country) nor looking for Gold or a "good life".... you did accuse me of being a "blind patriot. Hypocritical" and I find these words as personally insulting as well. Your language was deliberate and critical...just read all of what you said and compare it to how I worded my responses to your wild theories.

MODS: I recommend this thread be closed for lack of purpose and continued insulting statements about a great nation and its people traumatized by another extremist event, unless someone else takes up the job to defend. I am done for today :)

(And, Gaurav unlike most of your colleagues, I did not come here on a H1B or a "relative" visa or from an oil rich country) nor looking for Gold or a "good life"

^ why then did you migrate to America?. You were not looking for gold, nor a good life. Not money, nor fame. Why oh why?. .then did you migrate to America? .the basic necessities like food, clothing and shelter are available in almost every country. Finnish are known the be the happiest people in the world, as per survey. Why not move to Finland?..surely it must have decent foundations as well. Else its citizens would not be among the happiest.

There is always a reason. Motive is essential, even if not individually restricted.

I wrote nothing different from the truth. You on the other hand stuck to your biased views. Therefore, hypocritical. And again, let me make it abundantly clear. I am against the corrupt government. Not America, or its citizens. You sir, were offended, because you took it personally. I didn't. The entire globe speaks of the conspiracies surrounding the US and the middle east. And 9/11 as well. I doubt the truth, until I can deduce a pure untainted residue. Where as you accept what the newspapers and the media say.

Your language was deliberate and critical...just read all of what you said and compare it to how I worded my responses to your wild theories.

^ I was calm and you were condescending. Not really fond of your " If I am not with you, then I am against you" approach in your defense. You deliberately sided me with the people who speak against America and possess a religious motive to harm the nation. You assume that because I am suspicious of the US government, then I must surely support those who want to bomb the entire nation.

Wrong. Your depth of intelligence is barricaded by your ignorance. I am against terrorism and corruption. No matter who is responsible for it. Be it the government or a gang of psychopaths or religious extremists.

Weigh the statements carefully. Not with your emotions, but with your intellect. Such instances do not require a heart. They require a sharp, conditioned mind.

A lonely soul:

"Connecticut shooter was suffering from Oedipus complex" ?????
"when the Moghul/Persian?????? empires were expanding on that basis.""
it seems someone with an uneducated guess would think you are getting across something !!
Where do you get your fact my mate??
This is what happens to internet surfer scholars.

Jesus. I can't believe this is still going on two weeks later. xD

Jesus wasn't responsible for this assault on this thread, Linda :) he gave his life so others could learn from his sacrifices. He fought violence with Peace and defeated his opponents. So, if nothing else, view this thread to learn how to defend against a barrage of passive-aggressive egregious assault.

RM (dDavidd) welcome to the CLUB...not the poetry wizards one, but the ALS (David) attack club. I will do my best to defend my statements that you make fun of, though I may not be as knowledgeable in philosophy as you. Remember, I have have no bones to rub with you. And I can see you have emigrated to Iran, the land of an elite ancient civilization, now overtaken by fundamentalists :)

i will answer you guys one by one, time permitting today in this space. :)

^ If you feel that you are being attacked, then I am ready to back down. So long as you don't reply back in the form of an attack. No use extending this dance. It is necessary for you to maintain your status as a valued member here. You are an important contributor. I on the other hand, don't care much about respect. The deserving share is reciprocated nonetheless. Always.

And if you want to continue, I shall not disappoint.

:) :)

you have no idea how "Moghul/Persian empires " hurts my friend
it is an oxymoron

I thought you believed more in the virtue of the Ahura Mazda (Illuminating Wisdom) over the Angra Mainyu (Destructive Spirit) in the ONE God. But, your words have a bit of Angra (anger) placed in them. :)

You are wrong
I am neither of those. There is no Moghul/Persian empire it is racist. It is inaccurate. It is to the inaccuracy that I contest and also to the smirk to a historic mass decimation, otherwise I have no problem with "Moghuls "
Dalai Lama is a Mongol and I love him.

Moghuls in 14 century killed more than half a million Persians. For that time, this number is unimaginable. They destroyed every living being. They blinded or beheaded towns after town and villages after villages. My nation would have never attested to such savagery and killing. This is not in their blood.
In that time life had no value; they say if a Moghul saw a man ((Persian)) in street and had no sword with him, he would say: stay here I go get my sword to kill you and that man would not dispute or scape.

I apologize for changing the subject, All I wanted to say is that imprecision such as those, affect our judgment and conclusions.

"You are wrong. I am neither of those. There is no Moghul/Persian empire it is racist. It is inaccurate"

^ I beg to differ a bit here RM, as recorded history on moguls and Persians is a bit different.

I am not sure the term Mughal/Persian was considered racist in the Mughal empire in the 16th century, from what I had originally learnt about the Mughal empire in the 7th grade. But I can understand that pre-Moghul era Persians (Zoroastrians who are non-Muslims) may want to distance themselves from the Moghuls who converted much of Persia to their faith by force. The Mughal emperors were Muslims and direct descendants of both Genghis Khan and Timur (both Turks from the Ottoman empire). When Humayun lost to Sher Shah Suri and fled India with just 40 men in 1540, the then Shah of Safavid (Persian) empire, welcomed him as a royal guest and assisted him to regain control of Hindustan by sending with him 12000 of his cavalry men to win back the lost Mughal empire of India. Most of the Persians that migrated to South Asia did prosper and obtain high positions in the Mughal Empire thereafter during Humayun's time who was just returning the favor to the Iranian empire of Safavids. So to me the Persians seem to have been well treated by the Mughals. But, of course these were mostly Sunni Muslim converts who were dissidents from the Shia ruling regime of the then Persian empire. The Zoroastrians who also migrated to India around that time following the Mughals also settled down (Parsi's in India) without much of bitterness. Hence, to me when the term mughal/persian empire is used, it is non-racist in the context of the Mughal empire in India. Though, I do recognize that the great philosopher prophet Zarathushtra (Zoroaster) and his followers follow the same tenets of non-violence as in Jainism and Buddhism. After all, Zoroaster's ancient language Avastan is closely related to Sanskrit, the ancient language of India. Anyway, we can discuss this further in the Zoroastrian (Happy Persian New Year/Norooze) thread that you created, the American way, i.e. agree to disagree, rather than pounce on each other. :)

And by the way, your other comment about the "Connecticut shooter was suffering from Oedipus complex" ?????

^ Do read my follow up comment and withdrawal of that speculation on that thread, which was only proposed because on the first day, the media had said that the mother of the shooter was a teaching aide at the school. So hope that explains it all. :)

"This is what happens to internet surfer scholars"
^ and this one I am simply going to ignore, as I know that I am not a philosopher, but a realist, and Dr. Google and the searches from many many different sources are my mentor, today :)
Too tired...time for a zzzzzzz.... enjoyed the challenge for today :)

Exostosis... i wanted to respond earlier but became ill...back now
"^ why then did you migrate to America?. You were not looking for gold, nor a good life. Not money, nor fame. Why oh why?. .then did you migrate to America? .the basic necessities like food, clothing and shelter are available in almost every country. Finnish are known the be the happiest people in the world, as per survey. Why not move to Finland?..surely it must have decent foundations as well. Else its citizens would not be among the happiest."

There is no mystery as to why people come to America other besides "power and greed". one only has to understand our basic laws. Can start by reading our constitution paying particular attention to the bill of rights and first amendment rights. And the reasons each amendment was written as such. How each decision was argued/debated to come to the conclusions written into each measure that was adopted into law. To understand our country and why it's a magnet for the world wide persecuted's salvation is not more then elementary reasoning to understand once our constitutional history is understood. Also in reading you will understand very quickly why our enemies fear what we offer. Then to you'll understand why our enemies keep their peoples ignorant, starved and (dependent) with a backward primitive life.

Life is not a ham sandwich and a glass of buttermilk...

^

Hmmm.......No. Not impressed. Your power of observation fails you. People in the US are kept in the dark as well. Only the approach is different. A good constitution is no good, if the people are constantly unhappy. The US is bombed, the middle east in the state of chaos is bombed. I see how effective it all is. You should know about the problems of US. I wish not to point them out, since that would be maneuvering the thread towards monstrosity. No need for offensive argument.

Also in reading you will understand very quickly why our enemies fear what we offer. Then to you'll understand why our enemies keep their peoples ignorant, starved and (dependent) with a backward primitive life.

^ Never enjoyed people declaring another country as an enemy. Why sow the attitude of establishing enemy contact? You don't bomb their lands for cheaper oil, they don't bomb yours. US has a good pace of advancement. Even if achieved by recruiting intellect from outside their borders. But with advancements, come new anomalies. I'd love to post the surveys about the US, and how its deteriorating in terms of intellect. But then I'd be the snake in the garden. The minority of intellectuals are taken care of very well. Rewarded handsomely. US does know how to direct the brains of the nations and put them to use.

Once you achieve peak, stagnation is the only way to go. Today US is at its peak, tomorrow some other country would be. Can't let it get in the way of living. Such trivial matters do we dwell on. And then feel helpless. The cycle of rise and fall cannot be interrupted. Constant is the path of change.

Life is not a ham sandwich and a glass of buttermilk...

^ Neither is life a walk through the valley of death. Life is quite beautiful. Flooded with unexplained phenomenal complexities, waiting to be explored. But too often we desire too much and with such intensity, that disappointment is certain. Each one is responsible for his or her own baggage. Never content with what he/she has. Constantly wanting more, something better or an object in another's possession. Wanting to match social status, upgrade to higher societies. Never understanding, they'd be the same people with the same problems, in a much bigger home, in a more luxurious car.

Gaurav :
Re: "why then did you migrate to America?. You were not looking for gold, nor a good life. Not money, nor fame. Why oh why?. .then did you migrate to America?"

^ Thank you for a befitting response to this question Dan on my behalf. The real answer to it is interestingly simple in my case and will make everyone laugh...one day, my Mom just decided to kick me out of our home when I was very young (for better education in my field..that I cannot disclose), fearing that I will be forever overshadowed by my dad's presence and prominence in our mid-size town. :)
I never wanted to come to the US, happy where I was as a kid, but my mom probably opened my eyes. From that day on, I learnt how "big and open-minded (opp. of narrow minded :)" people were in a free world, composed near entirely of immigrants from all corners of the world. I came as an exchange student initially and years later some people at work just decided to keep me here, since my mom din't want me back either. :)
Is that a humorous enough answer for you Gaurav?

The important thing about commenting on the US and the people that it is made of, is to know that it is not one ethnic or racial clan that makes it a success, but a diverse group of people who come from all parts of the world to achieve their share of the American dream of success in a free world. So, never underestimate Americans who love Peace and freedom First, innovation and philanthropy next and also have great family values. Contrary to your wild theories, they would (generally) only go to war when they have no choice but to defend Peace that is being violated and humanity at risk, that too only when all peaceful means have been exhausted. No amount of oil or stuff like that would really easily influence its foreign policies, like you and many others would like to suggest.
Someday, you and Noura may wish to become an American too, if you folks open your mind to others. :)

Is that a humorous enough answer for you Gaurav?

^ Oddly. No. The sentimental side of mine wants to sympathize. Yet my intellectual self does not verily correspond to emotions.

Glad to know you found your comfort zone. I will agree, the citizens of US give a high preference to work. And it has brought them much success. But I am still not convinced. I do not trust the government.

also have great family values.

^ This part was humorous. Thank you.

Someday, you and Noura may wish to become an American too, if you folks open your mind to others. :)

^ May be. May be not. I am attracted to quality life. War free zones. Sightly disconnected from the world. Speaking of migrating to the US. Barrow, Alaska appeals to me.

Update:

Speaking of the Boston bombing incident. The newspaper here mentions, that the bomb had traces of a woman's DNA. Has anything of such sort been mentioned in the US or any other country?

"also have great family values.
^ This part was humorous."
Okay, not humored enough. The common man/woman has a family and does nurture and care for them for most part. When I say this, it is not incorrect. What you see in the Press is usually what happens to celebrities or derelicts or the unfortunate. Anyway, I cannot convince many on this one, but just look around you, is it any different today in India? :)

Here is breaking news on addl Boston arrests, not yet in bigger papers.:

http://enews.earthlink.net/article/us?guid=20130501/c3705c42-4a22-4184-a4bc-a3c9d5c7d8a9

^3 more arrrested, exchange students in boston from nearby countries of Chechnya, who on preliminary reports seem to be a bit more involved than simply violating student visas.

Also, this morning on ABC news they also showed the mosque in Dagestan, where elder brother met a recruiter for the radical Islamist who supposedly influenced and radicalized him with the blessings of his mother, who was earlier talking about sending him to Palestine.

Barrow, Alaska...ahhhm...make sure you bring along your thermal spacesuit to survive. I just happen to be going to Anchorage, Denali and a bunch of other places in SE Alaska late June, but have no desire to go to the frozen Tundra...might get my thinking mind completely frozen! (But, for the heck of it I do have a Glacier flight landing planned at Mt. Mckinley) :)

But just look around you, is it any different today in India? :)

^ You sir, are on the right track. Approximately 40% of first marriages in the US end in divorce and 50% in general. India, is deteriorating. We'll catch up soon. The population is obsessed with talking back to back on the cell phone for hours. Texting constantly. Using Whats app. People are coming out of their shells. Buying expensive stuff, even if they can't afford it. People are more greedy. Its every man for himself. Humanity is not common. Nor is common sense. :P

I am observing the generation adapting to the technology. Learning to use it. But at the same time they are getting more ignorant. They act as though their ignorance is equal to another's knowledge. Drinking has become so common. Not to mention smoking. Youth is the future of the country. How funny. The youth is busy drinking and smoking. Partying and engaging in one night stands. The education system is rubbish. 90,000 students migrate to Australia every year, for higher studies. About 45,000 to the US. And some 30,000 to the European countries.

A teacher not only passes down her knowledge, but his/her wisdom as well. Teachers here as so disappointing, in terms of knowledge and wisdom. They didn't make it in the industries, so they turned to the last resort. Teaching. The teacher taking lectures on Internet security does not know what is DDoS attack. How she got her Masters in Engineering is beyond me. The head of department of the IT division, does not know about Image mapping. And he is pursing PHD. Teachers teach programming by referring to the printed programs. Disappointing for the most part. There are some exceptional teachers. But digging a mine of diamonds to find coal and a diamond or two, is not appealing.

There are 3-4 fixed topics on the news. There is always a fire somewhere. Investigation will be done. A woman was raped. Investigation will be done. Murder committed, suspect fled away, but investigation is assured. A man/woman was killed in a road side accident. Suspect unknown. Investigation will be done.

Intellect is limited to a minority, once again.

We cannot jump to a verdict on the bombing incident. A lot is yet to come. Though I am entitled to be suspicious of everyone, including the government. This is getting boring real fast. The media will bifurcate and deviate unreasonably in every direction till the incident turns hazy. Typical.

Barrow, Alaska...ahhhm...make sure you bring along your thermal spacesuit to survive. I just happen to be going to Anchorage, Denali and a bunch of other places in SE Alaska late June, but have no desire to go to the frozen Tundra...might get my thinking mind completely frozen! (But, for the heck of it I do have a Glacier flight landing planned at Mt. Mckinley) :)

^ Awh lucky you. I was roaming in a plain t-shirt in 2 degrees. I am sure I can handle the cold. But yes, thermals sound good. Barrow, is beautiful. So tempting. Would be good for a vacation to say the least. To be disconnected from the whole for a short period, and just enjoying existence.

In response to Gaurav's question "that the bomb had traces of a woman's DNA" breaking news...just reported by CNN, by an official in the investigation with insider information:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/02/us/boston-attack/index.html

It was revealed that the bombs were built in the small apartment that Tamerlan Tsarnaev shared with his wife and child, and were originally planned to be used on July 4th! per interview with Dzhokhar, the younger brother. This does not necessarily implicate his convert wife Katherine Russell per official. But to us it does raise a question of how much she really knew.
There is also a story of how abusive Tamerlan was before marriage, but yet she went on to marry him.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/tamerlan-tsarnaev-abused-katherine-russell-taunts-slut-prostitute-courtship-roommates-article-1.1325216

A real life modern story of abuse and manipulation of an originally Christian woman. I wonder the threat of abuse and blind obedience to a husband in a conservative adopted faith had anything to do with this.
--------------------------------------------
RM: "Moghuls in 14 century killed more than half a million Persians. For that time, this number is unimaginable."

^ I wonder if you meant Muslims under Caliph Umar of Medina, successor to Abu Bakr, between AD 642-645 and just a few years after Muhammad's death in June 632. It appears that the major massacre and expansion occurred under Umar's rule when he expanded and captured the entire Sassanid empire and more.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquest_of_Persia
-----------------------------------

And RM & Gaurav: The persecution and destruction of the Indian subcontinent by similar forces is one of the biggest in history as well, per some historians, beginning with Muhammad bin-Qasim in 712 CE, followed by Muhmud of Ghazni in the 11th century, Muhammad Ghori in the 12th, Timur (Tamerlane) in the 14th and then the Mughals in the 15th. The reign of Aurangzeb, one of the last Mughals was particularly brutal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Hindus

ALS...can I ask you...where are you from originally?

If you haven't guessed yet Hellon :), I was born in the same country as Gaurav.

But, this thread is coming to a close soon, so I wish to say this to all who fuelled my national pride in this thread by challenging it, a big thank you, and to my fellow Americans, silence is what kills you, if you do not voice your freedom and disagreement with people who misunderstand us deliberately or accidently :)

Really...? No..I honestly had no idea...sincerely..I didn't....

Hellon: Did it not surprise you at all that many immigrants do love this country more than their own, sometimes even more than the native born!

I have to be very very honest with you here ALS and...I may upset you and your fellow Americans but...I have visited your country twice and there is absolutely no way I could hang my hat there on a permanent basis..

That is really sad :( But many Canadians, British and other nationalities do share the same feelings as you.

I guess if you came as a student and worked here, rather than as a visitor, you may have had different feelings.
When I came first, what struck me was the racism aspect in the mid-West and some parts of the East, till I learnt fast that the country does not belong to racists, it belongs to everyone who makes it a success.

Why is it sad? I was born in Scotland...visited America twice...made up my mind I didn't like it..tried Australia and found that I did but...I have lived in a few other countries in between...America just didn't ring my bell...not sad..just a fact...racism is in every country BTW...I guess it's how you deal with it in the end that matters...

Not really Hellon. Some countries treat foreign visitors with due respect...most times. Depends on the people.
Anyway carry on, I have to zzzzzzzz.
Thank you.

Yeah...but you say you were not a visitor??? So you were a migrant? How were you treated in this country that you claim to love???

What a lively discussion! I haven't read any of it (past the first 5 or so posts). This thread is full and is being closed. Feel free to start another.

In the meantime, I'll be reviewing and making sure nothing penalty-worthy has been posted. Like most controversial topics, I suspect some people have let their tempers get the better of them, but I certainly hope not.

That's all for now. Thank you.