OCD

I'd like some opinions here...do any of you think a 3 year old child can suffer from OCD or..is it just a way of controlling adults to get what they want?

I hate to label anyone...more so a child so, maybe this post has the wrong title. Regardless, as a grandmother I'm very concerned ... my 3 year old grandson has gone from being very very fussy..I mean chicken nuggets but only a certain brand (the others are not the right colour) to not having anything else touching on his plate..,my kids had preferences when they were young but nothing like this???

Onset of OCD is usually later, late teens or early 20s, but sometimes mid to late childhood, in which case it's pretty obvious/intense. Three is very young, but it's possible there's something psychological going on.
Be aware that most young children express some food pickiness, and this can include the preference for food that doesn't "touch" like you mentioned. Kids like it simple. It's good to introduce them to new foods, but expect every new food to take awhile for them to get used to... and giving choices is your best option, so try not to force anything :)
As for the chicken nuggets' brand/color, maybe it's more of a comfort thing. The kind he likes are already tried and true, and he's come to associate them with a family meal, so branching out might feel discomforting.

Does OCD run in the fam?
Did you change up meals pretty often with your own kids?

I've only studied child development/psych a little bit compared to adult psych, so that's the best I've got.

No experience with children and OCD, only adults and I believe his started in his late teens as Jane said. I think I would just keep an eye on the little tyke and see what happens. The food thing is not all that strange. Have known lots of people who started that routine as a child and have continued it as adults. It doesn't sound as if he is doing this to get attention but then I think we would have to be there to really know.

My friend's daughter has been like this since she was old enough to eat. At first she would just drink milk, and would not try new foods, which the doctors said wasn't alarming, and just to keep encouraging her to eat different foods.

When she was 3/4 she would only eat fruit, and plain chicken nuggets. That was all she would ever eat, but would only eat things on separate plates etc. She had an awful time and doctors kept telling her she would grow out of it, when she went to school and saw other children eating.

She is now 10, and will still only eat mainly fruit and veg. Things cannot be touching, things have to be sliced a certain way, on different plates etc. She has never tried pizza, soup, sauces etc.

My friend says she always knew deep down there was an issue there, but the doctors etc all said she would grow out of it. :/

I don't know if that helps any, but I just wanted to share it. I think the longer the habit stays - the more chance it has to develop into the likes of OCD, phobias etc.

I really hope it might just be a little phase. xx

Thanks for your replies. When he was first introduced to solids there was no problem at all. His little legs used to kick in the air as soon as he saw his bowl. Then he just started to eliminate certain foods and shapes. He will eat certain things for a length of time and then ignore then. Grapes for example he used to love, although he examined each and every one to see if there was any bruising but now he will not touch them. He eats this thing called superman soup that is made in his day care centre but when his mum made it he could see little bits of carrot so that set him off. His dad is a very fussy eater but I wasn't sure if this type of thing was hereditary or not.

Hmm, that is quite tricky. You don't want to over react, but you don't want to ignore a possible problem. :/

I don't think it is so much hereditary, but perhaps he witnesses his Dad have certain reactions, and he just mimics these? Learned behaviour from his dad around food, and he is just trying it out for himself?

I think it so hard when it is not your own child, you can only offer advice, and hope they listen.

Is there anyone else worried about it yet?

Everyone is noticing now...even his cousins who are all normal eaters. There are certain things my daughter just won't serve up because her husband won't eat them...mashed potatoes is just one of them. As a result, neither of her kids have even tasted mash. I don't invite them for dinner because I refuse to pander to his (my son-in-law) fads. I just don't want my little grandson to be any different to my other grandkids and, at the moment he is.

This might be more information than any of you care to read, but here goes... When I was a kid, I had an aversion to anything with jello or pudding consistency, I was repulsed by bruising on fruits or vegetables, and to be honest, chunks of slimy fruit in smoothies still tickle my gag reflex. I was also a huge germaphobe until the end of high school, and refused to eat or drink anything that had come into contact with other people. I grew out of it on my own. I decided that pickiness is a negative quality, and I stopped being picky. I also started sharing food and drinks. It made me uncomfortable at first, but the choice was mine, and today I will eat almost anything and my germaphobia is practically gone besides washing my hands frequently.
Yes, I was diagnosed with OCD by one psychologist, but I was also diagnosed with ADD, bipolar, and severe depression by a handful of other professionals. I tend to think many mental disorders are shoddily over-diagnosed because categorizing makes "abnormalities" easy to understand, and makes us feel our own and others' unpredictable or idiosyncratic behaviors are out of our control, so trying to change would be futile. It's a dangerous business, this over-diagnosing, because it offers confirmation of characteristics that you might otherwise develop out of naturally. On the other hand, it can be damaging to not acknowledge a real disorder that is impossible for someone to learn to control without professional help.

Your grandkid, from what you have told us so far, is not exhibiting anything extremely abnormal or indicative of a mental disorder. I would treat him like a normal kid, who is picky, and maybe ask him questions about his pickiness and ask if he wants to be more open to different foods in the future. Ask if he understands that since you provide the food, sometimes he might have to meet you halfway on what you're having for dinner that night. At some point, he will have to decide on his own if pickiness is a good or bad quality, and if he wants to address his own pickiness or not. It's ok that he's different than your other grandkids, as long as HE is ok with it, and as long as it is not seriously infringing on others' abilities to function normally around him.

If other symptoms arise, reconsider your initial assumption as a possibility, but don't go looking for symptoms. You're not a professional, and even professionals over-diagnose :)

Baby Rainbow, even at 10, there is plenty of hope for growing out of these weird behaviors. Until adulthood, we are developing, learning about ourselves and others, and establishing an identity. My cousin sounds a lot like the kid you're describing, and at age 14, she is finally starting to realize that her behaviors make her life more difficult than it needs to be, and she is making an effort to be adaptive.
There's a lot of conflicting evidence about children's abilities to "grow out of" mental disorders, but my personal, amateur opinion (only a B.A. in psychology), is that children are very malleable and with the proper encouragement, can overcome incredible obstacles. Who you are as a kid does not define you as an adult.

Thanks for the lengthy comment and suggestions Jane...I really do appreciate all comments on this thread so far. I made him sit in the naughty corner once when he was over and disrupted a meal...not because he wouldn't eat the food but more because he was not letting anyone else enjoy their dinner with his tantrums...after 5 mins he came back and decided that dinner (wasn't so bad after all and he finished it (fish) so...that's what makes me wonder if it's a control thing rather than fussiness. I'm really not sure so that's why I'm asking for feedback.

As far as him being ok with it well...when they are all together there is the slight problem of...who doesn't finish their dinner gets no dessert...their parents rule not mine and I have to abide by it. When he's the only one who doesn't get ice cream then he's not really ok with and and...I'm unsure whether that does more damage than good.

Great post, Jane.

Why thank you.

~~~~~~bows~~~~~~

~

I only read the original post and Hellon I have to tell you a story!! I nannyed for 2 little girls and the oldest girl turned pyschotic sometimes I swear.....at first I thought she was just being a brat, but then I noticed her behavior wasnt really fussy, or bratty, it was abnormal for a 4 yr old, almost 5. Things like freaking if she didnt have the right fork, throwing a fit if her animals werent lined up right, she'd scream at the top of her lungs and cry if she was mad. it was bigger than a temper tantrum and it was never over anything big, small things always.

Ive mentioned it to her mom and she said she thought it was because when her youngest sister was born, she was on a routine. ..but her eat, sleep, shower, routine had nothing to do with these fits. These were just crazier then being thrown off if nap is at 12 or 2..

Anyways, for months and months I was alarmed because I had never dealt with something like that and I was hoping her mom would bring it to her doctors attention, simply because she was almost 5 and these tantrums or wig out moments just arent normal for someone going in to kindergarten...however, I became stern with her. I didnt give in to her fits anymore. So for the following months, she had choices, she either dealt with certain colored forks I gave her, or got nothing, she'd either do what I say or get to do nothing...after she was given options and discipline and negotiation, rather than completely freaking out, I noticed a small change in her behavior.

My best friend has a sister who has asbergers (sp?) and she said the little girl was showing signs of that. But, honestly, she was growing out of it, I swear by it. I corrected her every time she even started to lash out. Every time she got mad at something. She wasnt gonna act like that or speak to me that way.

So I think with some children, not all, they need better or more discipline, or more calm talking, something to better understand them rather than diagnos them right away. I always think it should be mentioned to a doctor, because who are we to diagnos or guess, but honestly, I feel like certain kids just need certain treatment. I was in my church nursery for 6 years, worked at 2 daycares, and nannied for 3 yrs, I have learned a lot and noticed a lot.

Camilla (little girl I watched) she was the toughest, but we ended up having a great time when I watched her at the end when she saw how serious I was.

Thanks for that Chels...I really do appreciate all the feedback I'm getting here. When my kids were growing up (in Scotland) I'd never heard of ADHD or OCD or anything like that. When a child was naughty/causing a scene it was dealt with instantly...a smack on the bum and time out in their room. Times have changed now and you risk the chance of being done for child abuse if you smack your child so...problems have occurred as a result of that. Yes, there are other form of discipline I know but, taking a favourite toy from a child for a couple of hours doesn't cut the cloth for me...they are still allowed tv and other toys so...they get to know very quickly that they can survive without there favourite toy for a couple of hours. I honestly think deep down he is just pushing his parents buttons and...I think he will be getting a slightly harder time when he comes over here in future. I honestly just wasn't sure if there could be some underlying problem that I could possibly be making worse.

Stern discipline is fine as long as you are doing it for the betterment of the child, and never out of frustration, but I don't support spanking. That's abuse. You are teaching your kid, true, but the wrong lesson; sometimes the only solution is dominance and violence over others. If you want quick results with little regard for the bigger picture, and the relationship you're creating, then by all means spank! Just remember, nobody ever told you parenting would be easy.
I might be biased toward finding evidence that supports my hatred of spanking because the only person I've known, intimately, who was spanked growing up... He became an abusive adult with a spanking fetish. The fetish is one thing, but his tendency to lash out physically when upset - I think most of us can agree, that's not okay.
I was not spanked and believe me, I was no angel, but my parents signed up to be good parents. I thank them for that.

Also, check this out.
http://cthebean.wordpress.com/2014/01/06/children-speak-about-how-spanking-feels-to-them/

I was interested to see that the majority of the children interviewed saw smacking as a punishment for being naughty rather than abuse.

Dominance and violence are pretty harsh words Jane and do not come even close to describing how I dealt with my children when they misbehaved. They were given three warnings and if they still played up then they were smacked once in their bottom (NEVER anywhere else) and put in their room to cool off...this was between the ages of 3 and 7, after that they knew right from wrong and I very seldom had to enforce any other form of punishment....the odd grounding of course, but, the issue was discussed and I listened to them and the reasons they gave for their behaviour. Both my children turned into pretty normal teenagers/adult and are still very close to me and leave their children with me at the drop of a hat. I would never smack any of my grandkids (it's not my job) but...they still get a time out if they misbehave.

I don't think it's right that we consider it physical abuse hitting an adult, but discipline or rightful punishment when it's a child. Why does being a kid make it ok to get hit?

I'm sure you were a great parent otherwise, Hellon, but no one can convince me that spanking is fine.

Anyway, I don't want to turn this thread away from the initial topic because it's an important one and I hope more people offer their ideas and advice. I'll shut up :)

I don't think it's right that we consider it physical abuse hitting an adult, but discipline or rightful punishment when it's a child. Why does being a kid make it ok to get hit?

^^^

There is a difference from a smack on the bum through clothing to discipline a child than full on punching a person to deliberately hurt them?

I'm sure you were a great parent otherwise,
^^^^

I was and still am a great parent full stop.

I don't mind the path this thread is taking because I feel there could be some connection between smacking a child to let them know right from wrong and these issues that occur in later life. Is it mostly children who were not smacked who go on to develop issues like OCD and ADHD...you have already stated that you were not smacked as a child and you were diagnosed with both so....is there a connection? I would be interested in other members opinions/feedback here. I know some of you guys suffer from different forms of mental stress that never existed 20 years ago...are we, as a society too quick to label a person and very quickly medicate them?

My OCD did not contribute to me being a difficult child, think I should clear that up. I was and am hyper clean and organized, which was like a gift to my parents when I lived with them. Severe depression was a chemical imbalance in my brain and is heritable. My depression was tough on my parents. ADD was definitely a misdiagnose, as was bipolar. I later discovered that my psychiatrist was using me as a guinea pig for a newly released drug.
I don't think you can find any causal evidence that spanking produces healthy individuals. You would be more likely to find studies showing statistical significance that spanking increases the likelihood of unhealthy outcomes.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/moral-landscapes/201309/research-spanking-it-s-bad-all-kids

Personally, I was spanked as a child and I now have realized I don't want to discipline my children that way. I actually asked my parents about how they view it now, much later, and my mom doesn't support it but my dad still does. I think it can be seen as an immediate, thorough punishment: the parent will not be called "negligent" if acting right away to make sure the child stops the behavior... but you can reinforce in other ways. I know being "sent to my room" was never a true punishment since they never checked to make sure I wasn't on the computer (or reading haha). I was stubborn but sometimes going to my room caused me to ask to talk about it later that night. I never learned anything from spanking. Does it help in trying to diminish that behavior, like taking away a phone or privileges may, or is it overall ineffective? I'm not a parent and have no clue how hard it would be trying to be everything you set out to be raising your child... but spanking was done out of anger/frustration. I DO see a difference between a light smack not done out of anger versus repeated ones that seek to "teach" you something. It was always said in my family if we ever said something out of anger, we never truly meant it. And that was reassuring because I've thought about that deeper. But you still question why it came to their mind, if it was out of uncontrollable emotions or what they believed would work at the time? If anything, I think spanking can be humiliating, inappropriate (maybe at a certain age?), and the child doesn't learn to communicate better. By that age, I knew what was "right" or "wrong" on basic terms, mostly I got upset or talked back (which I did a lot) because I was trying to express my own thoughts, but it came out disrespectful.

I also think it depends on what background you come from. Like if a child is called to their father's room and they see a belt, they know what's coming and associate that with spanking. Does that cause the child to fear the father or feel repressed when growing up? Are the parents who spank trying to be "traditional" and strict, in the sense that you take responsibility for what you did, consequences from your actions?

There's such a variety in the practices/techniques of discipline. I don't desire to be a mother for many many years, but I have thought about it and what principles I'll stand by. That's just from looking at the world around me, my parents, and being on the same page with your spouse so you communicate well with your child and they can learn and grow.
I haven't done any research or looked at statistics to see if there's significance but would be interesting to look into.

My apologies for a prolonged absence, but I had a problem with one of my own kids who needed assistance & it took me out of general access to the web.
I have been able to read posts although for some reason I could not log on.

I was spanked - and worse - as a kid but it was considered the norm back in the fifties. As a parent I have found other means of dealing with discipline but I support the use of a good whack when it's needed - but only on the backside and rarely applied. As a behaviorist once instructed me in a program: ignore, ignore, ignore; but if you have to be negative, don't let there be any doubt about what the problem is.

The fact that your grandchild responded to time-out indicates to me that he is demonstrating learned behavior and is using it to manipulate adults. Unfortunately since the source of the role modeling is his father, reinforced by his mother, it is beyond your effective reach.
Odds are great that when he starts school peer pressure will modify it somewhat. Then your advice to him about it may help him develop insights.

I would say definitely not OCD, but could possibly be an indication of a couple of things.

1. People easily form mental/emotional associations to their food. Are there any foods that you can't eat because of a bad experience? (I still have a little trouble with orange soda, thanks to a spectacularly colorful barfing episode.) Anyway, kids can get upset stomachs or bad feelings that they can associate with food, without really being able to intelligently recognize or vocalize those connections. If a certain kind of food has made them feel bad in the past, then they might project that onto similar foods. (Doing things like arranging the plate a certain way might even be an attempt to gain control over the eating process?]

But feeding stuff is pretty sensitive, sometimes. Whatever your feelings on discipline and parental authority, you wouldn't want to, like, shove canned peas down their throats. (Mostly because those things are NASTY. I stand by my 5-year-old opinion.) Forcing kids to eat something can be really counter-intuitive.

2. I think sometimes kids with autism have extra sensitivity to things like texture. That's not the conclusion I'd jump to here, because your little guy's habits seem pretty normal (from my limited experience), but just to throw that out there.

3. Mealtime as a power struggle. Totally happens.

Just anecdotal stuff from another (former) picky eater...

I ate a bunch of different things when I was really little, but then I was suuuuper picky until... probably adolescence? Like... my apples couldn't have skin on them, I liked spaghetti (but no sauce), white bread, mashed potatoes (no gravy), etc. Basically white food. Haha. Nothing "sauce-like." I didn't even like pizza! And I was repulsed by things like casseroles. Didn't want stuff mixed together.

Anyway, I started trying more foods throughout junior high and high school, and now I like tons of things that I never thought I would: sauerkraut, sausages, olives, bleu cheese, tofu, whatever. Oh, and all of those things that I didn't like before.

Except canned veggies, still. GUH.

Interesting topic.
Hellon: Food fads and picky eaters and associated dinner table tantrums are so common in young children, that I would not be worried interpreting them as OCD or anything serious.
Somebody in fact did investigate this fascinating everyday observation in 5,390 pairs of twins between 8 and 11 years old and found children's aversions to trying new foods are mostly inherited.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/10/dining/10pick.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
So perhaps the genes came from the father? :)

Re: Childhood/teen depression- something that is so prevalent, and so problematic, unfortunately is a very difficult and often ignored topic. Many are over diagnosed and some not at all, when intervention could have helped prevent suicide or other serious harm. Teen "angst" though is probably much more common than the dx of MDD or Bipolar disorder. Regardless, it is difficult to have any of these disorders, let alone being a teen. Hence, not surprised hearing personal sad stories of "misdiagnosis' or "missed diagnosis" such as above.

Aspergers is no longer a valid recognized psychiatric dx, having been blended completely in the Autism spectrum disorders group (DSM V), not surprisingly. The high functioning Aspergers were mostly missed in the olden days, some recognized as "nerds" and "weirdo's", some became famous (savants) and the rest were tossed as societies "atypicals", unfortunately. It is wonderful that today we are able to recognize and intervene early for many in school today. These were simply ignored or shoved under the rug in the past.
It was nice reading every one's experiences and viewpoints.