James Foley & Steven Sotloff...

Why are the American's in our poetry community not outraged enough to at least acknowledge them??? OMG...please do not admit to having to google them first!!!

Don't have to Goggle them at all. I suppose my reason is that it seems when we "Americans" express our views on "murders" like this and talk about the Islamic extremist groups, in this case ISIS, that commit such acts, we are berated as haters of all Muslims and the topic becomes a "rant" for radicals to take over and turn it into a platform for them somehow. Now to get the war really started, here are two things. I wish that President Obama and his "collation" that he wants to form would "bomb ISIS" until every member of that group is dead and the second thing I wish that "their" people would condemn them rather than staying silent as they have in the past.

Some links on both of the journalist that were beheaded. There were videos online (have been removed at this time) of the actual act of beheading. Shows the ISIS person with a knife cutting the head off and holding it for a second or two and then discarding as if it were nothing. Perhaps you know this but ISIS is not limiting this to US journalist, they have been killing soldiers in Syria, citizens of Iraq, anyone who stands in their way is subject to their "horrendous brand of justice".

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/04/world/middleeast/steven-sotloff-isis-execution.html?_r=0

http://time.com/3258167/steven-sotloff-isis-video-james-foley/

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/james-foley-video-appears-show-beheading-journalist-missing/story?id=25043593

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2740998/ISIS-release-video-showing-beheading-American-journalist-Steven-Sotloff.html

Well Sylvia kind of took the words right out of my mouth with her first post for sure.

Anytime we open up about a tragedy, regardless of who/what is involved, it's quickly skewed to something else always being worse, and why do we care about this when xyz is happening, and how dare we feel this or that way.

I personally am tired of defending myself for being an American, for being on the side that I am, and for my beliefs.

ISIS is a very, very real threat and we have the opportunity to stop them, and we don't. We have a president who is wishy washy and refuses to take a stance on the matter. Surprised more isn't happening, to be honest.

Sylvia and Britt...I can understand where you are both coming from in regards to things being turned to the advantage of others in most of the debates that go on in relation to politics/wars/religions etc but...don't you think that by being silent instead you have more or less let them win?

If you were the president of the United States of America what would you do ?

I don't agree with the contents of this link I am posting ,to be specific that anything was faked

http://youtu.be/e6EaXeqmFj8?list=PLks8mXumtDBJvCqRh15M9ae4yI9OfgA7s

Michael...It's no big secret that I don't understand American politics...I've stated this often in the past. This post was more to do with the barbaric acts carried out on these two journalists and...what I thought to be the lack of acknowledgement of their lives by fellow Americans on this site...

I do think that Obama's threat to seek revenge...sometime...was a tad pathetic..like school yard 'war games'

Well I am glad you started this thread after three days of no topics I thought P&Q died again

I am very sad that it happened and it did not get the attention of RW passing but you never know when you post a topic whether it will just quietly down the congratulation and happy birthday threads not that they are not stimulating

Ok...you added a link after I posted....CNN???? I forced myself to watch it :) OMG...that guy cracked me up! Indeed...how do these politicians know what American citizens are thinking 24/7.

This is an extract from a link that Sylvia kindly provided.

Seconds later, the figure dressed in black brandishes a knife and identifies himself as with the Islamic State, the name the brutal terror group Islamic State of Iraq and Syria took on after its leader, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, declared himself the leader of all Muslims.

Leader of all Muslims? Do our muslim members agree/disagree with this claim???

I feel outraged every time this type of thing happens. I do not want to tarnish all Muslims with the same brush though.

The next hostage is British. These acts are being performed by a British Muslim. As a country we allow these radicals to live here, claim benefits use our NHS for free healthcare. Then they leave with a British passport and fight against British and American soldiers and commit these acts of murder. I feel for the families of both of these guys and I commend their bravery. Both died with more dignity than these fanaticals will ever posses in 10 lifetimes.

I don't feel like my comments here mean anyones winning.. in fact the very opposite. I feel like when I or others come on here and make statements about these topics, it ends up being another PnQ war. I don't have the time, energy, or care to argue with people anymore. We all lose when we all lose it at each other, and unfortunately people can't have an honest discussion without freaking out.

I don't believe that man speaks for all Muslims. I know Muslims who don't agree with ISIS, who don't agree with the killings, and who don't have a hatred of other people, including Israelis. We cannot lump all of them together as you cannot lump all Christians in with the Westboro Baptists. I'm definitely not anything like them, personally.

I take this issue to God. I truly feel like this is a spiritual battle, not a physical one. What happens in the spiritual world ends up leaking out into the physical world, showing what's happened "behind the scenes" so to speak. I can't physically fight this battle any more than I already do, by being aware, by voting, and by educating myself and others here, besides prayer. Whether others believe that is worthy or not is up to them, but for me personally it's the only way I know how to fight this.

Totally agree with your last two sentences (well all lol) Darren. Absolutely.

I have to stand with Britt on this. I don't have the energy or time (because of many medical issues that I have at the present time) to get into a "war" here on this site. Therefore I continue to keep up with all that is going on the world in all countries, I read all sides and all information that I can find excluding you tube videos. I try not to make harsh judgments and attempt to understand the viewpoints of all. Unfortunately that does not happen here on P&Q. It always seems to be "my way or the highway". I do pray for peace among all human beings, that we could learn to live in peace and understand that we are all different and embrace those differences and not be so quick to ignore people because they are different. Not asking anyone to fall madly in love with your neighbors, not even fall in "great like" but to learn to live and accept each other as you are.

I think you both have written some lovely statements here.

You also make some important points.

Should the media call these people (if they are actually human) IS fanatics rather than Muslim fanatics?

I can imagine the Muslim people of the world are sick of seeing this sort of thing as much as the rest of us.

Unfortunately some Muslims see much worse closer to home.

The west should HELP rather than stir the pot.

Only then are we ever going to start that long journey on the road to peace.

"The west should HELP rather than stir the pot."

Realistically, what does help look like? I've been trying to answer this and can't come up with an answer that is realistic/suitable?

Honestly?

I have no idea.

Blair and Bush invaded Iraq under the pretence of WMD being stockpiled by Hussein.

None were ever found but this started the chain reaction that leads us to today.

Maybe the west needs to accept that the middle east have its own way of doing things and not every country should be run like USA and UK.

Who knows?

Men and women paid far more than I will ever earn in my lifetime have the task of discussing this.

The UN needs to get more involved.

I love the Irony that Tony Blair is the middle east peace envoy. Since he has held that title there seems to be far less peace in the middle east.

Maybe Tony Blair is the anti-Christ?

That is my little knowledge exhausted on the whole subject.....

May James Foley and Steven Sotloff rest in peace.

Http://newprophecy.weebly.com/nostradamus-and-the-new-prophecy-almanacs-blog-and-media-interactive1/al-baghdadi-al-bigdaddy-declares-caliphate-and-himself-as-emir

From what I gather ISIS is to Islam what the KKK is to Christianity and the spectrum of radical to passive varies greatly

Great post Darren

It's really disgusting what ISIS is doing... I lost faith in everything in this world :/

but you know... the US holds a huge part of this madness... I mean invading too many lands in the middle east, killing and stealing oil, etc.... no wonder gives birth to such deformed acts

Lol yep. All our fault, here we go again. That's precisely why we stay quiet, Hellon.

Takes two to tango. Other governments work with our government and they're all a tragedy. Adding that but makes it seem like its all okay...

But you know.... its the U.S. fault.

My thoughts exactly Britt. And Hellon this is the reason for the silence.

Yeah, laughable eh?
no wonder again.. we reached a time where we blame the reaction, not the action.

I blamed US and UK before Abed did.

(and I normally sit on the fence)

To say that the ISIS is a reaction to an action is ignorant and naive, I'm sorry but the first victims of ISIS were as much of Arabs as me or you, Abed. To justify what's being done, the brutal murdering of innocents whose only fault is being Arab Christians or Americans or British or simply at the wrong place at the wrong time is just disgusting and inhumane.

It is said here, as I'm sure you're aware, that the ISIS was created and funded by the USA. So if it's a reaction as you say, and they're motivated by hate, why cooperate with America from the start or have anything to do with it. I used to be against the death sentence, a few years ago, now.. I'm not so sure. To me, i think those criminals should be caught and excuted. There can't be any hope or anything to save when it comes to them.

There is something wrong here, seriously wrong, with the middle east if these are the kind of people there is. If these disfigured beings keep on increasing and increasing and no it's not a reaction. Buy let me put it in a way you'd understand, to say this is a reaction is the same as saying the Israeli bombings is a reaction to the holocaust, is the same as saying that what's happened in the middle east of foreign interferences is a reaction to 911.

And, If this doesn't make you see the region as frightening and chaotic as never before and moving almost to self destruction and a point of no return then I don't see what can, Abed - and the next time an eastern or Muslim is attacked, killed or discriminated against you can not talk really, since it's all reactions to you.

The weird thing is, we don't complain when Arabs or easterns kill eachother, when leaders or terrorists group kill us .. No we don't complain or feel victims as much as when it's the other way round. I've seen people turning a blind eye to Syria, I've seen people turning a blind eye to what ISIS did to nonmuslim Arabs and the dancers they beheaded (for their profession obviously) regardless their religion. They're playing god and we don't care. But, what I don't understand why is why this any different than what's happening in Gaza. Here innocents are being murdered in cold blood and there too. It's not only about the number of victims, is it? it's about the act itself, no? About people living in fear, leaving their homes and running for their lives. It's the same here and there, but since it's us doing the killing it's ok somehow in some people's ruined logic.

All I can say is I'm really sorry for Foley, Sotloff and all the victims of ISIS. No one should go through what they did, not for any reason. May they rest in peace.

Give this princess a cookie

A cookie? Ah, but of course, that's familiar territory for you.

I say we stick to subject, Abed.

It's quite weird how defensive we all feel, as if we can not share our pain or anger or opinion without being blamed in return. Americans are constantly blamed for their government, Muslims, including myself, feel like defending themselves and their religion all the time extremist are being discussed and easterns like to put all blame on colonisation and wars, not seeing that, yes perhaps they are a factor, but the real fault is inside, the real problem is with corruption, illiteracy, religious ignorance and so on and so forth. Europe 60 years ago was torn by war, where is Europe now? And Where is the middle east? Hundreds of years apart in everything (other than easterns being great consumers), and that will never improve if we keep on playing the victims, as if our fate is not in our hands.

Still, with all of that in mind I never thought that anyone, not even us, would justify what ISIS is doing or even think it a "logical" reaction to anything, that's just sick.

Hold your horse, miss, nobody is justifying what ISIS is doing.

What's ISIS in the end? isn't it a group of mercenaries from Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Iran, India, etc....
It means a part of it consists of people from countries torn by the USA, who of course are sickos that don't blink an eye while slitting throats.
It may not be a direct reaction, but rather an accumulation of torment that gave birth to sick ideas and the desire to avenge.

And to answer the part related to 'ISIS killing other Arabs'... well as I said, ISIS is a cocktail of lunatics from many parts of the world, so it's not weird to witness that.

Norhan brilliantly put, I applaud what you have said here!

Not here to rent or put blame on anyone
Because a journalist is a messenger and any act against them is an act of treason.

Since 1985, bin laden and coo have tried to spread the jihadest idolgy across the Arab and muslim word in which in first it was hailed upon and considered the best act any muslim can do when the Soviet union was occupying Afghanistan. Not to mention that the westrien world absolutely didn't mind it at all.
But if you compare that to the rapid rise of the ISIS who deviated from Al qeada at 2012 to later overshadow that organization in a matter of months
Inother words
What took osama bin laden to build in years
Only took ISIS months to do it.

Now the story of ISIS is as follows
A coalition was made
The point of ISIS is to have an islamic sunneh radical movment that can match the power of hizbullah.
Saw the funding they've got is 2nd to none.

Now what makes me very angry is as follows

A million syrian have died
80% of the country is now displaced and have migrated across either internally or externally
And the world didn't flinch

Two American journalists die and now the world is ready to strike? !

I think that is because we actually put more value on a life than they seem to do in your part of the world? I mean...if it's still legal to stone a person to death in many cultures over there then...none of you would bat an eyelid to see a beheading....over in the western world...of course we consider it barbaric.

EDIT...

and can we just take a moment to acknowledge today's date....

Http://youtu.be/q77Qyksc1y0?list=PLks8mXumtDBJvCqRh15M9ae4yI9OfgA7s

It still seems to me that just killing someone is not enough in a mad world

When France did its last beheading in 1977 did we not go through a period where gruesome killings were more rare than they seem to be in the last decade?