WANTED: PnQ Development and Improvement

What are your concerns with regard to needs the PnQ site has now or will be faced with in the foreseeable future?

[I'm not talking about site layout or programming changes. For those we need Janis. Rather, what can we do, as members, as mods working together to make changes within our reach and ability? Concerns are those things that are occurring, or may soon occur, that need to be addressed because they need to be changed, or to prevent becoming worse. If it is a possibility on the horizon that can be headed off now, it is a legitimate concern. Examples of concerns might be how to motivate inactive members to participate in the forums; how to get more involved judges; how to keep the intensity up for interaction; how to get new members interested and feeling a part of this PnQ site.]

What opportunities do you see available for the PnQ site, and how can we capitalize on these opportunities?

[Opportunities are underutilized strengths. They include potentials that are already a part of the organization and also those which are available to the organization. It could be a gem in the rough who does not have the initiative to do what he or she is capable of, but is more than happy to pitch in if asked properly. It could be a member who is not currently involved, but who has a talent or viewpoint that can benefit the PnQ site. It could be a way of doing things that could be started.]

What good things are being done now that should be continued? How can these good things be made even better?

[Positive features that should be continued are not just doing things the same way, but how to tweak them for maximum impact. Maybe the Weekly Contest is good, how can it's benefit be improved? How to make the occasional site-wide contests work to build enthusiasm, but not to burn out participants? Is the conduct of the mods conducive to generating excitement and participation? Is the site conducive to helping members learn to write better and gain more satisfaction with their poetry?]

My concerns and...the reason why I don't frequent this site too much anymore...

members who have mega accounts (and getting away with it) Mods...where are you???

these members are starting clubs with one account and using another as back up (assistants) to open them...is that viable???

Also...I am of the opinion that members with one or more accounts are nominating their own work from another account..naming no names but...hey I'm very observant.

Take a look at the nominated poems this week...well...it's been the same for a while now..Beautiful soul always nominates MKKK and visa verse...

Mmmm ...getting to the Mods...they no longer give a shit about this site...honestly...apart from Larry...days go by without any input from you all..even the newbies, which I thought may have given this site a breathe of fresh air have been disappointing....ok...that all for now :)

More contests that way we can have more people active.

*shakes head* seriously people?

Larry,

I feel some fresh, new ideas for challenges would be a great idea, doing mass pms to get people involved...I'm willing to come up with some ideas I'll post later.

Mods getting involved, such as mods pic of the week.they choose a random member....example....a member that is online at the time..... They read their poetry and make highlights about that member....heck mods aren't the only ones that can do this....I would be willing to do this....

It's time for this site to add some positive fresh ideas...

*Snorts* sorry to tell ya this James but I don't vote for my club members unless they have talent to back it up.

I don't easily nominate (well hardly ever anyways) since I know it's a waste of time for the judges that week to read the poems that have no potential and have to vote the ones that have the most. (I was a judge once so I know how it feels to read a poem without potential.)

Not every member has a multiple account but those that do (I do) have to report it and if they don't they will eventually be caught.

Speaking of 2nd accounts I use my second account to be the assistant to my club since I like this account but I don't like having the power of a manager some days so I use this one there's nothing wrong with using your second account to be an assistant in your own club just saying.

Also Maple you're right we have been silent for a while and it's our fault the site is falling down so we need to do something to fix it :)

1. Defriend everyone from P&Q from your Facebook account.
2. Post topics on religion, climate change, sexism, racism, abortion, meaning of art/life/being human, etc
3. Be an arsehole. Or a smartass or a genius or a fool. Or a pirate. Just be interesting. Use your words. Be fearless. Be a poet.

^ agreed. I do apologize for my above statement, I just get frustrated a lot of times, but Andrea is right we need more contests I feel

Massive club v club contests always seem to get people involved. For a bit anyway.

^ YES we need to do another club battle, someone run it please haha

Abracadabra

^ I think it should be:

1. Be an arsehole...
2. Post topics of religion, climate change, sexism, racism.. And still be an arsehole.
3. De friend everyone in pnq from fb before they de-friend you for being an arsehole.

Follow the above steps, and you'll become a loner, and subsequently, you'll have all the time in the world to invest it on PnQ. How does that sound?

---
Aside from bad jokes...

This is my feedback
I lost some interest in the weekly contest, it's because I don't necessarily see the whole point to it. I mean since a long time ago, I realized the weekly isn't exactly about quality, and in someway, that has led me astray. I used to see the site, mainly the weekly contests, as a way to improve my writing. But now, I see the site as some type of outlet where I can come to organize and post some of my poems. Ocassionaly, to read and comment on others poets.

So what to do about getting me and a few others that may have experienced the same feelings as myself concerning the weekly and quality issues to get more involved? I'm not sure. It's nearly impossible to focus on quality. Specially since everyone's definition of quality differs. I know is hard to be a judge.

It's a lot easier to just post poems and read poems and from time to time comment. Specially, if our time to spend on PnQ is ... Limited.

Though I'm sure having more contests may be of some help, yet at the same time, I know not everyone has the time to participate. Time seems to be a constraint.

Lucero I didn't think that joke was bad lol I found it funny and you're right time is of the essence especially since I will be joining another program and won't be on...never again lol except on the weekends. That being said I agree everyone is busy living their lives and not always will be on.

Contests don't often bring the inactive members I wish it was true but not always. Anyways good luck with everything! :)

My idea.....is to search the nrew members list each week...and highlight them....of course I would send them a message and ask them if they are comfortable with this..... It gives new members kind of a highlight, or have mods send a mass message, if they are interested in being highlighted they can send me a message. I would love to be a hostess.... It's just a friendly way of saying welcome and its a new idea for more activity....makes the site more member friendly...

I like your idea Maples, I am sure most of the new members would like that. Although I am sure some may be a bit unnerved which is why PMing is a good idea.

The weekly contest seems a bit up and down. In the main it is good. There are some usual front pagers but to be fair they do write some great stuff. I imagine that there has always been a case of biased amongst judges, Where club members pick members from their club, (i always felt uncomfortable doing this unless the poem was mind blowing)
However is it then unfair to exclude club members from your judging process? What if they do write something exceptional?
The only way to affect/effect (I can never get this right) the judging process is to become a judge yourself.

The easiest way to start more activity is to start a thread on Religion......

Lively debate is good but seems lacking lately.

Andrea, how about a monthly/bi weekly 'under the radar' thread? A thread where you can highlight a member that has been registered a little while, is still active but doesn't have a lot of feedback. I am sure there are plenty.

Imagine joining this site tomorrow, post 10 poems and comment on 10 poems, then receive only 1 comment in four months. What are you going to do?

I like the under the radar thread idea lol. I think it would really help keep others involved because if someone gets comments a lot of times they repay the favor when they can (therefore spreading the attention even farther).

Club vs Club challenges are cool and they do help keep members involved, maybe we could have clubs take turns hosting them once a month or every few months, that way members have something a little more than the weekly contest to look forward to (I agree that the weekly contest is losing it's meaning slightly though).

In some of the clubs they have designated members do a weekly or daily thread sometimes a game, a challenge, and others just something fun to talk about on a certain topic. Maybe something like that like every friday theres a new contest of a certain style that lasts through the weekend. (I'm not sure how easy that idea is to follow - I am quite sleepy sorry!)

This one is a little odd, but it might be cool: the little awards you get on your profile for commenting or posting so many poems ect. it might be fun to make a thread or challenge or something for the people who achieved certain ones. The thread doesn't have to be weekly but maybe line it up with when the search for new weekly judges begins. That way new or less active members have something to look forward to. A challenge that would make them more active. A congratulations for those who like the spot light and then want to help others achieve that (via commenting and encouragement). Or somehting kind of like that. (again sorry if it wasn't worded very well... just thinking outside of the box).

I'm reading all of this stuff & absorbing much

These ideas are great

But Hellon, I beg to differ with your condemnation of the mods. We're pretty much all involved and most are active regularly. Some, if they need to be away, let us know so we can cover.

"members who have mega accounts (and getting away with it) Mods...where are you???

these members are starting clubs with one account and using another as back up (assistants) to open them...is that viable???

Also...I am of the opinion that members with one or more accounts are nominating their own work from another account..naming no names but...hey I'm very observant."

I'd love to hear those names and work on getting people down to the allowed amount. I do not have the time I wish to really sit down and look at all the pieces of PnQ like I used to... I do what I can and still try to enjoy this site as a member, but that's semi impossible now.

I'd love if we could have a mod who was so observant. Unfortunately people get busy and cannot go above and beyond 100% of the time. There are a lot of members and poems and things to do/watch/pay attention to nuances here, and it's impossible to catch them without the help from members. I'd love it if I could become a robot, but such is life :)

I like the under the radar thread idea.

The hardest part of having a weekly type thread is 1. the poster gets burnout or 2. No one cares.

We had a whole lot of the latter happening for a long time. The same 3-4 people comment/engage, and then nothing. We don't get past 10 posts and there goes the sky-is-falling comments again. I think the people who used to be so heavily involved got frustrated and started spending their time elsewhere. Makes sense anyway. Hopefully that can be changed in the future.

I miss the word of the day thread that Sibs and I think maybe also Colm were running. I'd be down to do something like that weekly.

Britt, I'd suggest small teams of people. Say, for instance, I'm interested in starting up a WOTD thread again. I'm not going to take that on by myself because I know that I'm working seven days a week and my attention span is about as long as a thumb. If I'm passionate enough to get something like that started, I'll find a small group of likeminded PnQers and we'll come up with a rotating schedule. Sure we might burn out eventually, but then maybe we can pull new people in as we do.

Also, what's the deal with Janis? I know he popped up a while ago to change a few things. Mods, are you in contact with him at all or is the assumption that he's gone and never coming back?

Janis unfortunately has zero contact with us. :(

Awesome ideas, nodding my head along to all of them.

I could definitely commit to making a daily thread since I log in about every day. Narph, if you were interested too, we could switch off every few weeks or months for Word of the Day? Rotating seems like it would work since we may have one week or month that's busier than the other.

Also, Andrea, brilliant idea to welcome the new members! Every so often I'll look at the new list to see who's joined but not as much as I should. That will help make the atmosphere more friendly. I would love to help highlight their poetry or leave comments even.

Not every member has a multiple account but those that do (I do) have to report it and if they don't they will eventually be caught.

^^^^^

So...you say you have multiply accounts...how many exactly?

Speaking of 2nd accounts I use my second account to be the assistant to my club since I like this account but I don't like having the power of a manager some days so I use this one there's nothing wrong with using your second account to be an assistant in your own club

^^^^

I'm not sure what you mean here...what difference does it make which account you use to sign into your own club?

I think Abby has hit the nail on the head...facebook/twitter etc definitely have a lot to do with the lack of participation on this site.

Larry...I saw you nominated a poem last week and Jane the week previously but...before that, when was the last time you nominated anything? Nominations by all the mods are thin on the ground so...why not have a mod's pick every other week or so? Each mod could highlight a poem or two and vote on a winner. That way it prove that you all do read some member's poems from time to time.

Hellon, apparently you miss weeks at a time. Otherwise you'd see poems nominated by myself & other mods regularly.

I do like the activities spoken of here.

No...I miss nothing Larry...I may not sign in but I still check so...I'm sticking with my statement...you and other mods do not nominate on a regular basis....

To be honest, the contest and poetry in general has lost its charm to me. Everything we do is so scrutinized that we get accused of only nominating the same people, or club members, or other mods. I have actually not nominated or involved myself in the process because I had been sick of hearing about favoritism. When I branch out and read poetry from people I don't know, I don't find much nomination worthy, because it's harder to connect. I also don't use all 3 nominations because I can and have them. I truly wait to find something I want to actually see on the front page.

Dammed if you do, Dammed if you dont I suppose.

I just checked the nominations page and it seems like the same 4 or 5 people voting. Surely we have more members than that, but let's single out the mods. Got it.

I like many of the ideas on here, and thanks Larry for posting the thread. Unfortunately the same issues seem to rear their heads every few months. There is no definite way to 'get' people to participate. The fact is that there are so many other platforms and websites for people to express themselves, communicate etc. that PnQ has been left in the internet Dark Ages (thanks for that, Janis). The fact that so many people have left (and there isn't the same input of people into the site to replace them) is unfortunately a contributing factor too. PnQ is a totally different place than when I started out on here.

Club vs club challenges are great for activity, as are contests. It is however demoralising to set up a contest and have only 2 or 3 entries, or post in a thread that goes unanswered for days. I'm guilty of this non-participation too but I don't honestly know if there are enough site users to keep up a good level of activity, and it is unrealistic to expect the 50 or 100 or so active users to post and contribute every day or week.

Sorry I'm not coming up with much positivity here. *looks at a half-empty glass* Maybe it's just my lack of interest in poetry in general has dampened my view of the site as a whole.

I think what has happened in the past is that there might be a burst of activity after one of these 'soul-searching' type threads, but after a few weeks it's gone back to normal. People also can get tired of daily/weekly threads, which is only natural. So I guess I would encourage everybody to post when they feel like it: share threads and links that you might share on facebook or show to friends, etc.

Something else I'd love to see is just one forum, where everything is discussed in the one place instead of the current format which has 10 or 11 subsections. Is there a way we can lump them all together, so that maybe people will be concentrated in one place and people would be more inclined to contribute in different types of threads. I'm sure not many people go into the 'find a poem' forum for example.

I know that people get attached to their clubs so it would probably wouldn't be fair, but part of me thinks it might be healthy to delete all of the clubs and try to encourage people to use the main boards. Make the members message forum into one site-wide club.

As for the mods Hellon, I know we don't all sign in like clockwork but there are 7 of us and we make sure there is somebody to cover. It's not our 'job' to nominate x amount of poems a month. We actually sub-judge regularly to try and ensure there are 5 votes and comments each week, as well as host the contest, take care of glitch votes and find judges for every term.

Sorry for rambling. I was overdue a PnQ rant.

^
Some people do talk outside their own clubs just saying.

Hellon when I use my manager account it's because I have to kick someone out of my club for something or another or just because I want do something to the club that I normally don't have to do like update the description of the club or like I mentioned kick a member (not that I normally do that), but the matter of it all is that as an assistant there are some things that you can't do and sometimes I like to change it's natural for humans to want to change.

I'm like Britt I normally don't nominate poetry if hardly ever and it's not because I lack the ability its just that hardly any poem that I read moves me to click "vote"

Can the mods delete whole threads on here or is that just Janis?

Alternatively, we could reinvent the site. If Janis isn't coming back, and, as Colm said, PnQ can't compete with the resources of other websites to draw new people.... maybe there's some validity to looking into alternatives that don't necessarily involve PnQ. We know that the site's been failing for a long time. The site we are now feels like a wasteland compared to the rowdy, poetic, beautifully disfunctional place PnQ was five years ago.
What I'm saying is, this place is a sinking ship, and we've all stayed on it. Maybe we should get off?

There are lots of other poetry websites we could join (we could even carry over clubs, etc) or we could look into founding a new site altogether.

I'm throwing out ideas here. These might not be ideas people like. Eh. :)

Mods can delete threads that are posted, but not entire subforums. :)

I just checked the nominations page and it seems like the same 4 or 5 people voting. Surely we have more members than that, but let's single out the mods. Got it.

^^^^

Actually...I did not single out any mod in my first response although I did actually name two members who nominate each other regularly.

Colm...you are always quick to point out that it's not a mod's job to nominate for the weekly but...surely leading by example wouldn't go amiss?

True Hellon, but when we do nominate we get accused of voting and nominating our friends, fellow mods, clubmates etc as you well know, so like everyone else I nominate when I come across a poem I really like or that's really worthy and that's about it. Nominations aren't really a problem.

We can't delete sub-forums, the most we could do is lock and/or move all the threads in each section and instruct people to only post in the members message forum.

I don't remember ever reading anything accusing the mods of being selective in their nominations?

Great thread.

Perhaps the weekly contest is an important part of this site, still the main forums especially the poetry forums a vital part that must not die.
The bias could be controlled by the good selection of judges, but keeping the forums alive could never be achieved without active participation from all of those who could enrich this site, genuinely.

I've read everyones responses but instead of responding as a mod who feels the need to defend their actions, I'm going to reply as a member who too has lost some interest in this site but would love to see it alive and kickin'.

I messaged Britt two days ago saying I wish PnQ was more like Harry Potter: 4 clubs and a sorting hat. She didn't really understand my reference but my point was that I feel like PnQ has lost its charm and it needs a bit of magic to keep it alive.

We have too many clubs operating and that's why a lot of clubs end up inactive. Active members are stretched across a variety of club, this is a good thing, but when it comes to club vs. club challenges, (which is what seems to actually get this site active), the last few challenges we've had only show 3-5 members from each club participating. Imagine if we had less clubs. We'd get more activity and challenges would feel more like a team effort.

It's probably the temp I have talking here, but I keep imagining 4 clubs, competing in poetic challenges, receiving points, and winning a house cup. One can only dream eh. ahaha.

Senryu I don't see any of that happening. My experience as a judge mimics my experience with poetry which mimics my experience with art. I either like something or I don't. Hopefully the comments I leave elucidate my reasons for choosing it. Poetry of all things should not require people to explain why they enjoy it. Poetry isn't that at all. Poetry is sensation on a page and you either feel it or you don't. Can we all stop policing the judging system? It's working fine in my opinion. I have never had an issue with judges and preference, because poetic appreciation is preferential. Judging it otherwise is pointless.

Sometimes, or a lot of the time, the same style wins. My opinion is that those poets or styles are winning over and over because they appeal to a wider range of judges on a regular basis. That shouldn't turn people off of the contest, it should inspire people to think critically about what type of poetry they want to write, what kind of poetry they like, and to strive to become better at being that poet.

To clarify: the contest is not the problem this site is facing at all. It is one of the only consistent things happening here. Everything else is grey matter. Fix that first.

I really like Mel's idea about the clubs.

Wow, great brainstorming and excitement in this thread! This is the PnQ I love. Let's try not to point fingers or be too sensitive if we can. We're all at fault for the slow trickle a once raging river has become, but let's not beat ourselves up about it. The negativity brought on by comparing past PnQ to present PnQ isn't healthy, and it can be daunting. Sometimes I'd rather close the browser than let the guilt sink in. Nothing for any of us to feel guilty about though, really. This is evolution at work. Other social platforms and a lack of administration have formed a new PnQ, but it's not dead. It's still here. We're still here. The ideas brought to this thread are inspiring and a lot of them are doable.
If we can avoid ideas (for now) that involve the administration (Janis), that would be progress. Let's work with what we have available. On that note...

I saw Narph & Mary Ann have expressed an interest in sharing a Word of the Day thread. Yes! Even if no one posts in it, I'm sure it will get a lot of hits. Not all of PnQ is about dialogue. Sometimes it feels good to sign on, read, learn, enjoy, then log off.

While we can't delete other forums, we can be more active in them. There is this whole other community on PnQ that actually uses the other forums - go figure! They probably feel like we're the outsiders, haha, which isn't what a mod should be saying. As a mod, I should participate more in the other forums, and I'll try to do that.

Nominations. Hellon, you're right. I've never been good at commenting, but I do like reading, and if hitting that nomination button more often will prove that I'm here and reading, I'm happy to do it.

I'd like to pick up where Sibs left off on the Daily Sip, but turn it into a weekly thing. I'll start pulling poems from professionals and highlighting them with a little bit of history once a week. I'll put it on my calendar.

Weening down clubs. We are actually doing that NOW. Deleted another inactive club today. There aren't that many left and if we cut the "inactivity -> deletion" time down even more, Mel might get her Hogwarts wish! Should we do a vote? I say inactivity for 3 months should mean deletion (following a warning and 2 week grace period). Yes? No?

Senyru, interesting idea about judges being able to converse while remaining anonymous to the site. It could work. I'm open to giving it a go.

Limiting wins is another interesting idea. It would be a lot of extra work for the mods, but we can probably handle it. We'd need to keep track of every win every term, review nominees every week, then PM judges before they cast votes regarding nominees that have already expended their term's wins, and be ready to correct votes as they come in.

Should we do a vote? I say inactivity for 3 months should mean deletion (following a warning and 2 week grace period). Yes? No?

^Yes.

Thanks for the positivity Jane, it's oozing.

Or perhaps permit judges to converse anonymously (under the mod's watch, to prevent judges from conspiring to get certain poems to win) about the nominations, in an attempt to diversify, i.e

judge a says they want to vote 10 for poem x
but judge b says the writing style/content is similar to poem w from last week, n other judges can chime in,

^^^

I'd have to say that I'm against this idea...I'm not sure if you mean they would be able to converse and still be anonymous to each other..if so, wouldn't that be a lot of work for the mods? If you mean they would know who each other are but anonymous to all other members well that is the way it used to be and favouritism was rampant back then.

I also think it would be unfair to overlook a nominated poem just because it had a similar style to a recent winner. What if the poet only posted every few months? Would it be fair to overlook their work for that reason only?

True, that is how the judging was done way back when and the favoritism was rampant. There would be greater mod presence this time and judge terms would not be indefinite (like previously). I'm not really for or against the idea, but I am for trying different things to make the most people happy with how the weekly is run.

What do you think about 3 months club inactivity before deleting (rather than 6 months)?