WANTED: PnQ Development and Improvement

I've had a look at the 9 remaining clubs and all but one have been active in the month of June. Only Unique Hearts haven't so I had a look at the activity of the members and there seems to be quite a lot of them who are not presently active so perhaps start with asking club managers/assistants to firstly pm these members and report back to the mods...if that isn't done then...yeah, I agree in closing such clubs down after 3 months.

Jane I study Russian poetry if you want help with the daily sip.

Also I'm super against limiting wins/inter-judge communication/policing the voting process for the weekly in any way. If you want more variety of winners choose a wider variety of judges who seem to write/nominate different styles from each other. I wouldn't be against the mods picking a group of pnqers every three/four weeks or so who represent diverse writing styles and asking them to judge. Especially if the commitment were shorter, I think you'd see more willingness to judge and more spread in the votes overall. Maybe even get some of those mysterious "other pnq community members" you were talking about, Jane.

I too am against the judges' communicating with each other in any way. There's just too much room for abuse or even the appearance of abuse. I also do not think you should limit wins by anything such as similarity of style to other winning poems. We only use judges who have qualified for nominator status by having at least 10 praised comments (the gold C), this criteria having been established by community voting. Let them do their job.

Also, we reduced the judgeship term from six months to three months, again based on community voting, thinking that would allow us to get more judges. It has not! We are now raising it to four months in order to eliminate the constant search for judges. It seems to be a reasonable compromise.

As for reducing the inactivity limit for clubs to three months, I have no strong feelings one way or the other about that.

I know that many members are involved in other forums and in clubs that are not particularly involved on this forum. That doesn't present a problem to me. I just want them involved in some way.

As the mods already know, I did some research on activity on PNQ. It is true that membership in PNQ has declined starting in 2007; in fact it is almost exactly in inverse proportion to the rise in popularity of Facebook. That decline is understandable. In fact, seeing the numbers makes me realize that we should do more word-of-mouth recruiting among friends. On the other hand, we still have over 150,000 memberships, at least 100,000 of which I believe are active to some degree. We also still have hundreds of new memberships on a monthly basis. My question was how to get them involved. I know that Luce has been greeting them for months. If others take on similar projects, or entirely new ones, that's great.

I think the worst thing that could happen to this site is over reliance on the mods. There are too many great communicators on board to hide candles under bushel baskets. Innovation is much more effective coming from the several dozen regularly active members than funneled through six bottlenecks.

I have been "lurking" in the background and keeping up with this thread with interest. It seems like a good deal of the suggestions being make would take the site back to where it was 4 or 5 years ago and everyone was for a change then for all the reasons that have been given. I have posted a link to this thread in our club and have strongly suggested that our club members read this and comment if they so desire.

The one thing that I have the most problem with is reducing the number of clubs to 4 or less and will take this opportunity to say that I am not in favor of this suggestion. Regular housekeeping by the mods to keep inactive clubs deleted would keep the numbers low. I am speaking for myself but can say that so far the general feeling of the other club members is that they are against the suggestion as well.

I agree, Sylvia. Although the inactive clubs should be eliminated, I do think the active ones provide a valuable service for members. I don't think we should limit the number of clubs.

I just want to say that it's really exciting to see so many people posting in this thread. It shows that we still have many passionate members.

Hi Sylvia, certainly we wouldn't delete a club if its members wanted it intact. Thanks for coming into the thread and voicing you opinion, everybody should do so :) The more that come in here to brainstorm the better.

Personally I've had great experiences in any club I've been in but I do think that the club system has outgrown its original purpose somewhat, imo. I know that is different for other people. When clubs were introduced it was to help people find a niche amongst (the the time) 1000s of active members and it was a place for people to meet others with similar interests etc. I can only speak for myself but I would love to make the most of what we have left here (because we do have some great poets, people and ideas left even though the site has been in decline). In an ideal world I'd like PnQ to be one big club, where I could interact with PR members, TC members, etc. As opposed to having 9-10 clubs with maybe only 4-5 active members each, with many people getting disenchanted because activity is slow when part of the reason for this is not that activity is slow but that it is spread out too widely (amongst different clubs and different forums).

The site has already lost it's charm for so many people, I think change is definitely worth debating at least before it diminishes further. (even the debate itself brings activity, great to see the ideas and opinions being tossed around).

Sorry for being such a Gloomy Glen.

I get the problems with doing an interclub challenge wherein some clubs have more active members than others, disinterest, frustration, etc. Can we have a mini version of Mel's idea and have people interested in a site-wide team based challenge sign up and be sorted into temporary clubs? They could even have to submit their favorite poem they've written to apply (or something new) and based on what they wrote/the tone, etc be sorted. And then we compete mano a mano for glory and fame. Something like that might get people more interested in expanding/redesigning the club system. I know I personally am super attached to TC and wouldn't budge even if only two people ever posted there again. But that has to do a lot with not knowing/feeling tied to other members. Thoughts?

PS: I apologize for how rambly my posts tend to be. I drink lots of coffee and work two jobs. I hope you can find meaning in my sludge. :)

Narph, that's a good idea. We could have something whereby we could create clubs for specific challenges, people could join them and once the challenges are over, go back to their original clubs and the mods could delete the clubs that were created for the challenge.

That way people could have the benefit of interacting with members they mightn't usually interact with, do challenges with etc and still have the comfort of their own clubs to go back to.

Another idea which would be fun (if potentially troublesome) is if we created a club completely for alter-egos. Where people could join from second accounts and it could be a type of Poetic Cluedo, trying to figure out who's who. (Ok probably a silly idea but it's late and I haven't had any coffee ha)

.............

Can I just say I love the Poetic Cluedo idea?!?!?!?!

Colm, we could even have temporary club challenges with things like best club theme song or best club silliest walk. Random things to get people talking to each other.

Also, I'm a huge fan of the cluedo. People have anonymous accounts anyway, why not utilize them.

Cluedo! Cluedo! Cluedo! CLUUUUEDDDDOOOO!!!!!

I'm in.

Narph, I think you read my mind. I knew many people would not be entirely comfortable with my original idea and even posted in the mod that I would like to implement my idea into some sort of contest of sorts.

Cluedo sounds like fun!

Mel, I'm not trying to run a contest on my own (especially one that complicated) but if you wanted to team up I'd run it with you.

Mel & Narph!
A contest born in Hogwarts

From PR Member Mohan

(Mohan is from India and is in the process of learning English. After readiong over it, I thought I would leave as it is since the meaning is there and you see his own words and thoughts, none of mine interjected. I did tell PR members that if they wished to comment and were timid at adding to the thread, that I would be glad to post them with or without their names, in their own words. I did this because we have quite a few members learning English and are not sure of themselves at this point)

Mohan's Comment
Please tell my opinion there with including my name. Just need a correct english.

Only four clubs is really not a good idea. I disagree this and If they want to delete all the groups and want to create only one main club for all the pnq members means they can do it without deleting the rest of the Pnq club.

They said a lot about contest. Still they did not conducting any contest for quotes. contest is only for poems??? Giving importance for quotes will be interesting. I don't know what to say about the improvement of our club.

Mohan
http://www.poems-and-quotes.com/author.html?id=488393

What about a club for new members only (or a probation period of 30 days) and require them to be in the club for at least one month before attempting to join any other club. Forgive me, but the Moderators could be in charge of this club and show the newbies the rounds, give them the rules, look over their writing, and maybe even suggest what club they might feel more comfortable joining.

EDIT: If my health was not in such a mess now and declining, I would volunteer to help with this and other things but I cannot commit to any new things at this time. I wish it was different but it is not, so I will have to just be suggester and cheerleader for now.

PR has had a few applications where the person had hardly waited for the enter key to get back in position for registering for the site and they were already applying to PR and telling me what all they could add to the club. BTW no poems posted, not much information on the profile and I declined them. Those person really had no idea what PR was about so how can you know what or how great you would make the club. Sorry if I sound snobbish but that is not it, new members need to at least take the time to look around the site, get to meet some people check out the clubs list before applying.

What about having "writing" classes using one of the existing forums. Not just about writing poems, but comments on poems, comments on threads, correct use of words like, then and than, critiques, There could be one or two willing site members to facilitate the "classes" and even have homework assignments.

Sylvias idea about a new c!ub for new members only is a great idea...make it a 30 to 60 day club trial period. I could run the club, and mix my idea of highlighted new members thread each week.....

I always said I wouldn't do the club scene again, however, this would be a great way to get new members noticed and involved.... What do you all think?

It's worth a try.

Colm is worried about decline. I think the problem needs a different approach. It is true that fewer people are starting accounts, but it is still in the thousands. However, about the same proportion of people close their accounts:

2015: 202 out of 918 new accounts year to date still active
2014: 416 out of 1,927
2013: 1,064 out of 4,066
2012: 2,265 out of 9,882

If we can get more of these new comers to Stay & become a part of the site, then we can make up the decline and even turn it around.

Hmm we could create a greeters club, composed of 5 members. And the greeter members could be in charge of greeting members and of posting easy contests in the poetry websites and contests forum. The way the contest could be judge would be by stating that the winner would be chosen based on what the host likes best. So the host won't have to feel pressure about judging. Though each poem most include a comment stating what the host liked from each poems...

Also the greeter club... It would be like having the Mods team, but this time they would be called greeters. Greeter1, Greeter2,Greeter3.... Etc. except they would not have any special "power". Their accounts would not have any poems or if those greeter accounts have any poems, those poems should be related to the site.

Ahh, may be we could create a site contest where each participant writes a poem welcoming the new comers, another where each participant explains to the newcomers how the site works... Etc. and when we have those poems we could post them for voting. The winners will be posted in each of the greeters account but the poem will include the name of the author and a link to author's account. That way when the greeters welcome the new members and if the new members click on the greeters account, then the new comers could have a better idea of the site.

Though in case, regular members want a more challenging contests... Then the main forum could be the place to post those contests. Either the mods or regular members could take care of hosting them.

I'm not sure... I'm just throwing ideas.

Your ideas are based on your own experience over the past few months as greeter. They are appreciated as is your work.

Totally agree with Sylvia.Don't think you will do justice by having only four clubs ......
I personally have found a family in my club where it seems that we have eternal bonds......
Please consider.
Thanks

Hey guys, we're not doing the 4 clubs thing. It was an interesting idea that's now being incorporated in other ways, but we'll still have our active clubs.
Good to see some new faces on the boards!

I'm down for this welcoming club idea and the cluedo. Can we do both?!

We could still create a clubs on a temporary basis if we wanted to do a contest like the one Mel mentioned and keep the existing clubs, people if they wanted could enter a contest club for when the contest is ongoing and then go back to their original club when it's finished.

I would like a bit of alter-ego fun with a cluedo-like club, think it'd be very interesting, we just have to do some brainstorming about how it would work within the multiple account guidelines first.

I think Everlasting is doing a great job by working on the greeter account. Although the greeter club is a good idea in theory (thanks for volunteering Andrea btw!) personally I'd prefer to see new members joining existing clubs and participating there instead, or energy being put into the forums regarding challenges, debates etc. As Sylvia mentioned there could be poetic workshop-type threads about comment writing, poetic techniques, etc. but open to everybody on the forums, not just in a greeter club. Another slight reservation I have is that club of newbies feels a bit elitist, like we are segregating them or something. When members are so thin on the ground I'd prefer to see as much integration as possible as opposed to trying to spread a small bit of butter over too much bread, if that makes any sense (it does in my head but that isn't saying much!)

^^^^ As Sylvia mentioned there could be poetic workshop-type threads about comment writing, poetic techniques, etc. but open to everybody on the forums, not just in a greeter club. Another slight reservation I have is that club of newbies feels a bit elitist, like we are segregating them or something.

I should have made the workshop idea clearer, it should be for everyone.

As for the club of newbies, there needs to be some way other than greeters to show the newbies the ropes so to speak. It could be for 30 day only like a probation period. They could learn the rules, how to move around the site, etc., Get it explained up front. I believe it is necessary because we have had members in PR that had been on the site for several years and had no idea what the rules are or how to get to the forums and believe it or not some did not know how to copy and paste a link in the browser. By having the "newbie" club for 30 days they all hear the same message, not different messages from each club.

I like the greeter suggestion as Luce described it.
We don't have to formally start temporary clubs for it.

I'm off the next few days. At my annual family reunion in Marion, Virginia where the park has NO cell service!

Y'all have fun!!!!

Some interesting ideas and opinions voiced out...keep them coming!

Lucero that is a good idea about the Greeter's Club, a club just for the new members so that they can have a feel about the place and know what is going on...excellent idea!

Also besides the weekly winning poems for the current members already here; we can run a contest just for the New Members, have their poems judged and commented and post the weekly winners for them too. It will be encouraging and at the same time they will be know in the site.

Ok - Apologies for the very delayed reaction to this post, but I do keep forgetting to check the Main Board! (Kicks oneself)

I read this post all in one, so everything is all flying around in my head now. :(

1. Clubs - I was on this site for years and did not know about clubs, contests etc. I only posted my poems and then left... so I think the Beginning Club is a good idea to get people started. I can't help since I have my own club, but I don't mind if you want to use this club for it, or, perhaps as a "moving on" club for those who pick the site up fast.

2. I have LOADS of prompts for competitions and could run them daily in my sleep - so just shout if they are ever needed.

3. I try to run daily posts in my club which work out pretty well actually. Some are games, other are competitions, chats etc, but there is activity every day in the club. Perhaps I could make some of the same posts to the main board to get people active?

4. Weekly contest - I don't really have an opinion on that because I don't feel you will ever please everyone on it... however, I have always said that I do feel winners should be split into 2 categories, beginners and advanced ... (Someone suggested this above) and that way new writers will only be competing against new writers. Something simple like if you have won 2/3 wins on front page, you are advanced?

5. Multi accounts - I personally do not see a need for them, and think they will always cause a problem, example: my suggestion above wouldn't work if people with 10 accounts were submitting 10 poems and basically competing with themselves... pointless.

I am active every day on here, minus the VERY odd day I can't manage. SO I would be happy to help out in any way for any of the suggestions that will go ahead.

But I will say that (someone) was right above, when they said it is most disheartening when you run a contest and only get 1 or 2 people involved. I have done this many times, and admit is why I drifted away from the main boards with my contests. But I am willing to try them again if people wanted to enter.

IDEAS FROM MY CLUB THAT WORK WELL:

1. Alphabet games for activity

2. Comment Threads - dedicating one thread to a certain type of poem, such as 0 rated, a certain form, a members very first poem, or very latest, etc.

3. A very short weekly challenge: like write a poem in under 30 words, within 30 hours. This has been working quite well in our club lately.

4. Title Tosses usually ALWAYS get activity going.

5. Find a poem threads - these can be fun to do, and you can make many games out of them.

Hmmm... it is 2.30am. And I am tired.

I might start an idea thread tomorrow for contests only, to show people what I have in my mind, and perhaps what others want to add.

goodnight..... I am never typing again! ;)

I still remember something like a thread for analyzing famous poems, the member formerly known as "The Tasteless" used to post.
That was a great enlightening poetry workshop, I miss that kind of discussion and activity here.

I used to do that in my club and it was interesting looking at different poets and analyzing them but then the response to the post started to dwindle.. but I guess been posted here in the main forum will attract more members to participate.

Overall it seems like people really WANT activity around here.. Kudos to Hellon for her quick competitions and games! Appreciate it :)

I'm personally making an effort to reach out into other forums as well, as those are also dead. I just posted something in the Love/Romance section. Take a peek if you'd like.

I encourage everyone else to do the same. You don't need red letters to start an activity or thread... you don't even need approval :)

I have said this before but it seems relevant again. The clubs have split what was already a gradually declining activity level and sectioned it off so that from outside these groups, the website seems dead. I'm sure Janis the website owner can look at the sites metrics and see a different picture.

I don't know about anyone else, but at my age I just don't have the patience or tolerance for about 70% of discussion threads I see around here. I've been there dozens of times presenting my point of view. It gets old so when they allowed us to form clubs all of us wanted to naturally spend time with people who shared our sensibilties and interests.

So yeah, if you wanna save this website we all need to get out of our clubs and back into the forums.

I don't think clubs are a problem. I can't talk of all clubs of course, but I do believe that the website is quiet as a whole. Back in the day we had tons of people online, now it's mostly a one figure number, not to mention the number of comments on poems and nominations and everything. It just isn't what it used to be. Perhaps it's a phase, the website has sure seen a lot of up and downs but definitely not the clubs; I don't think they're doing any better than the website as a whole.

As for solutions, I didn't read the whole thread yet, I will eventually but I thought to just add a little idea after reading Kevin's post. I do understand that not everyone is going to like every single thread being posted or think it's worth participating in or worth the debate, which got me thinking why don't we all post a thread each? and by ''all'' I mean the people who posted on this thread, that would give us like around 7 different topics and a bit of variety and diversity and, hopefully, activity and there will be something for everyone. Just as a start.

"Out of our clubs and back into the forums." I do not agreed with you Kevin To be honest, for years i stayed off the main forum I was inactive for a long period because i do not find most of the mods friendly I think lots of people disappears because there is no bounds. Also when it comes on nomination, i have always seen the same poets, well nothing new. If it wasn't for my club, i wouldn't be on the site.(If it wasn't for Sylvia, Cindy and someone else from the very week that i've join say hi etc i wouldn't be here I think the active clubs should stay, but each mod should invite member to participate in different topics on the main forum. I feel too that the comment section, i think people should stop telling people oh, your english is good for someone from a non english speaking nation or some silly things like that( it's not a compliment, your poem is good point blank) I still believe there should be a thread on how to comment on poems since people always pointed out the problems but never the solution. Anyways, good day to you all.

I don't like to get too involved in these discussions, but let's not forget why we are all here. Because of our love for poetry. To read and write poetry. I think we are letting ourselves become caught up in the political workings of a site that should be very simple. Read poetry. Write poetry. Comment on poetry. Yes, be active on the forums and in your club, but all that will follow if you do the above. If everyone remembered why they joined the site to begin with and acted on it, the rest would take care of itself. I think, to some degree, the maze is being made more difficult to navigate by ourselves.

*just as an afterthought (and this is my opinion) nominating club members should not be looked down on - any team has the right to support eachother, as it were. There is a happy medium, I agree, but if you read a great poem from your club member - nominate it and be proud to do so.
I have nominated two from my club this week - one by Cassie and one by Beautiful Soul and they are both genuinel excellent pieces, and worthy of the nomination. I've only just reached nomination status, but I actually am going to make a point of trying to find some pieces by authors who maybe don't get noticed when they should.

Narph, It seems I missed your post. I think we, as a team, could come up with something pretty spectacular.

You guys mention clubs against clubs and those who don't belong to any club? they would automatically be out of the game.
the problem is:
if you are not a member of a club, you become invisible here. I do feel PnQ lost its magic too. I miss some members and their fantastic poetry. contests won't transform this site. the magic lies in poetry, in good poetry.

You guys mention clubs against clubs and those who don't belong to any club? they would automatically be out of the game.

^^^

Not necessarily the case Karla. Don't you remember yourself, Maple and me (all non club members) giving the others a run for their money in one of the contests a while back...can't remember which one now but...it was fun.