Thoughts for Paris

"The US took in over 750,000 refugees since 9/11, not a single one arrested on domestic terrorism charges."

When were the Tsarnaev brothers brought here? Now I understand that's just two out of the many, but it's a serious question.

I'm going off a quote from an article printed in the economist, but the brothers were brought in 2002, on a visit visa, and then claimed asylum as opposed to seeking refuge. The former means that you can still be deported as your waiting for your claim of 'refuge' is still being assessed. A technicality I suppose.

Mark
You cannot reasonably assume that there aren't 1000s of people scattered to the four winds who want to wreak havoc in the west. And I wasn't necessarily referring to refugees. Many of those who represent the problem are born in the country they go on to terrorise. My point is, getting rid of ISIS will not stop terrorism.
It's not about giving up, but it's the sorry truth. They need stopping, but to think that by stopping them is the answer to the real problem is far too simplistic.
My closing point is this: I do believe that ISIS need stopping, but I don't believe that stopping them is the long term solution. We need to look at our foreign policies going forward and get involved if and when we REALLY need to.
I hope I am wrong and that by gettong rid of ISIS (if we can) it solves all our problems and stops these kinds of attacks completely. I just don't think it will.
All the very best everyone and once again, thoughts go out to those in Paris - but also to all the other families - from whatever country/religious background - that have lost loved ones through this.
Ben

Ben,
You keep repeating the same thing, but in all the posts here I have not seen one that claims that getting rid of ISIS & al-Qaeda is the final solution.

Indeed, it is the current need.

Mark, makes sense! I wasn't trying to be a brat, just genuinely curious.

Realistically, how do we eliminate ISIS & Al-Qaeda? These people are teaching their children hate, and instilling a spirit of terrorism in their young. How does the world truly battle this? Genocide? That's not the answer. We can and will be at war with these people until the end of time. So how do we put a band aid on in the process, because really, isn't that the only thing the world can do?

Ben, you keep repeating the same thing
^^^^^^

Larry, an overly blunt (even rude) post that, given the context of the thread, is off the mark anyway.

No where did I say that anyone HAD said that, I was just - as is usual in debate - offering my own opinion. Let's bear in mind that this thread started as a place to leave thoughts for paris and evolved into people offering their views about what should be done or what would work. People express their own opinions in debates and sometimes, they even leave the path that was initially set. Just because I said getting rid of ISIS was not the solution ultimately, doesn't mean that the comment was in answer to anyone denying that.

I could argue that you yourself keep repeating your view. In fact, the truth of it is, you and I have done nothing but nag back and forwards repeating ourselves for most of this thread - nether of us debating skilfully. Just for instance, I believe twice you chose "not to give a fig".

All the best.

Britt - I agree (I just hope I'm not repeating myself)

Ben, the beautiful thing about passionate people (writers, all of us here), is one topic spins into a multitude of things. We welcome that! :)

Is that not what I am saying in my last post, Britt? My point is that I was simply offering an opinion that wasn't anything to do with the initial thread - and things developed. (rightly)

*I hereby exile myself from the main boards. Debates always seem to end like this here. :(

Ben,
You're right, I was very rude, but in response to your criticism of my oratorical choices, I give this link to show I really do.

http://www.gardeningknowhow.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/fig-fruit-400x300.jpg

@Britt

Terrorist factions need to be stopped with force, however the underlying causes of their existence need to be tackled. Speaking abstractly, most terrorist groups exist for:

1) political gain
2) to spread some ideology (religious or spiritual).

I think in most democratic nations or even countries with a stable government, the first point becomes defunct; it's easier to campaign for whatever political gain the group is seeking, than rather taking up arms against it. However in countries that have a totalitarian regime, or any corrupt regime; the people who want political gain, will be forced to take up arms for their cause, since their is little the government will do. The groups end up using fear as a weapon (becoming terrorists), or just wages civil war against the nation (insurgents).

The second aim is something monumentally harder to stop; ideas are infectious that way. Once an idea takes root, it's harder to stop (the arab spring, autumn of nations, France's revolution in 1830 all become examples). But the primary difference between these examples and say ISIL & Al Qaeda
is the examples I listed had widespread adoption, whereas ISIL and terrorist groups do not. There's something about 1.73 billion Muslims, if they did adopt the same ideology that ISIS does have, then that's that's something like 23% of the world population we would potentially be at war with, but that's not the case. I think there's a bit of fear mongering that's going on, and while it's perfectly fine to be afraid and terrified, it's not okay to be demonizing a billion people at the same time (none of you guys are doing so, I just wanted to point this out, because of all the nasty thing I've seen and heard on the news, local mosques being targeted, etc). Terrorism will always be around, we will be facing terrorists probably till the end of time, and there's nothing we can do on that front. The only thing you can do is prevent adoption of those beliefs (through education).

@Ben

What do you propose that the long-term solution is? The west's half-baked dealings & policies with the middle-east is one of the reasons as how ISIL/Taliban/Al-Qaeda came to exist. Certainly not the only reason. Going forward, yes, a definite review of foreign-policy is in order.

The more I hear or read about ISIS from sources I trust, I feel the group are funded mercenaries that are taking advantage of the confusion fed by rapid desire for control of the middle east. This group has as little to do with what the moderate peoples that accepted a moderate form of Islam (the one) that abandoned the harsh law of Moses or reformed the harsh ways of the old testament years ago. The group has less to do with the Islam that Cat Stevens converted to than the song Dylan wrote called Isis before Iran /Contra

https://youtu.be/wXfZLMk7gyA

Larry, are you on Facebook? If so I will tag you in the posts

I am on Facebook, under my own name.

But, Hazel, the link was only a part of it (and Mark provided one link).

I also asked: What is the conclusion you draw from your assertions with regard to international attacks attributed to ISIS and the conflagration in the middle east?

I shall look you up.

My interpretation is that Isis is an organised and strategic group created by the members of the G20 in order to spread terror and implement martial law, thereby having firmer control over the people, once that is in place 3rd world war arrives, hate is everywhere and people no longer trust each other, along comes major massacres to clutter the population and (if you're religious) make way for armageddon.

^^

Are you really only 19 years old?

This is sort of in line with that theory

http://www.globalresearch.ca/putin-outed-isiss-g20-financiers-but-not-a-single-western-media-outlet-has-reported-it/5490047

https://youtu.be/IT9mK71QR1A

Haha yeah Hellon I am why do you ask?

Michael it says the page does not exist, have you got a keyword I can type in?

The only country that seems to be doing anything to try stop terrorism is Russia, Vladimir Putin is quite on the ball about what to do, if I ever had respect for government authority Putin is the man. Obama made a statement last year claiming they have no strategy to take down isis and this week he made the same statement in as many words. the times of relying on false government run by the elite is at an end, it's time for the people to govern themselves, hence I am in full support of the group anonymous who in a week have shut down over 20000 isis twitter accounts and still counting. for those who are unaware, isis uses twitter as their means of communication but since anonymous hackers have started taking them down they're now turning to the deep/dark web, a information system that few know about where all the world's criminals do their deals, it's where human trafficking, drugs, prostitution, terrorism etc etc etc is planned out, you can even hire hit men on the deep web/ dark web. the US government is aware of this site/ system but they don't do anything about it because they use it as well to track people down, how do you think they are spying on people? it's all through the deep web, you want to find anyone in the world, any product or information that is secreted can be found on this site. If you look up a site called pipl.com you can find out almost any information on anybody as long as you have any of the following details:
name
number
id number
email adress
any account name

this site can tell you what accounts a person has running under the name/ number you searched, where they live, who their family is, if they have a criminal history etc etc etc.

If you know where to look you'll be shocked at what you find.

As a side note, you guys probably aren't aware that ISIS is run by the Israeli government, ISIS stands for "Israeli Secret Intelligence Service, allkaeda, when you break it down contains the acronym "C.I.A, basically the Israeli government is taking over and America is playing it's (female dog) whilst everyone ignorantly blames America, it's all the plots of Israel, they are the metaphorical hand, America is the food-bowl and the public is the naive little puppy dogs eating straight out of our own rat traps.

But yeah, let me stop now before this really becomes a word vomit lulz.

Oh also, paris bombings were a false flag using crisis actors who were also seen in the boston, sandy hook and aurora bombings, the man standing next to her is her brother not a random security guard. etc etc etc

Lol... ISIS is Israeli? Interesting.

Locking this because we're at (over) 100 posts - feel free to start another.