Circumcision?

For or against?

I'm just talking about male circumcision for now... My friend's daughter has just put her 2 week old son through this procedure which I cannot understand so, I guess that puts me in the 'against corner' I never had my son done because I think the foreskin is there for a reason. Still...I'm open to the opinion of others...so for or against and...why?

Against.
Because I never want less to play with.

Only you could say that...I've missed you Abb-Fab!!! Hope you have a lovely Christmas with your littley BTW...

I've been watching over the boards everyday while she's having her boob juice. Can only make pert little posts on my phone.

You too, Hellon. We are going overseas for a month so she can meet her great grandparents, 4 generations together. So spesh.

Congratulations on your baby girl! I hope you're getting enough sleep. I seem to remember that mums sleep when their baby's do, otherwise not at all.

Back to the topic in hand, so to speak.

Personally, I like to keep the form the way nature intended. Having said that, there are some boys and men who need this procedure in order for normal function to exist in this area. I can speak from personal experience and from reliving this through my son. If the foreskin is too tight despite non surgical solutions then it really is the only way. Either this or years of pain, infection and even troubled relationships.

I think Michael summed a lot of this up with his post. I know it is a cultural thing in a lot of places, but personally, I think where things on the human body can be left, they should be.
However, as Michael says, sometimes there simply isn't a choice.

I was circumcised just after birth, as seems to be the custom here. So was my son, but they missed a piece on him. I had to take him back at a month old - he was cut unanesthetized! It was then, 35 years ago that the barbarism first occurred to me.

Larry you made me wince,

To be fair, if you are not circumcised you can easily pull it back and pretend you are.

Is this not a common practice in countries outside of the states? It seems all my friends and family that have had boys, it was never a question.

What Abby said!

I don't think it is something commonly done in the UK. I never had it mentioned at all when my son was born or as he got older.. but had I had the choice for him it would have been a definite NO! I wouldn't put any of my kids through anything they didn't need. Full stop! However now he is an adult he can do whatever he wants, although at the age of 22 I'm not sure he'd even know what it is lol and I definitely know what his response would be!!

I think male corcumcision is barbaric and it creeps me out how widely accepted it is in the States. It's a painful procedure inflicted on tiny humans that are unable to successfully protest. How it's become culturally accepted and considered stereotypically "aesthetically pleasing" is beyond me.
The only exception I can think of is one mentioned above - if circumcision is somehow for the baby's welfare. I didn't know the extra skin could be too tight around the penis. Interesting.

In Australia it just seems to be accepted as normal but no one seems to know why. Hygiene reasons is what most tend to think. My friend's daughter had already got her two year old done and, although she admits it was traumatic for her son and herself and husband, she had to have the younger one done because they had to be them same...

In Australia the approx rate of circumcision is about 16% of boys under 5 years old, most happen at birth. this rate has been steadily decreasing over the years, about 14.5% is ritual 1.5% therapeutic.

Is it ritual in one part of Austrailia and not so much another part, two differing opinions.....

Anyhow, anyone who has ever worked in personal care coming behind someone who doesn't properly care for someone who hasn't been circumcised will tell you they are thankful for those that are.....I can't even explain the things I've run across from uncircumcised boys and men while working in a nursing home and with the developmentally disabled.....but other than that, I could go either way with it, I had both my sons done on the advice of the doctors, my one son will probably be mad when he finds out he could have had foreskin , because his favorite thing to do while taking a bath is play hide and seek with his pee pee......lmao

Is it ritual in one part of Austrailia and not so much another part, two differing opinions.....

Anyhow, anyone who has ever worked in personal care coming behind someone who doesn't properly care for someone who hasn't been circumcised will tell you they are thankful for those that are.....I can't even explain the things I've run across from uncircumcised boys and men while working in a nursing home and with the developmentally disabled.....but other than that, I could go either way with it, I had both my sons done on the advice of the doctors, my one son will probably be mad when he finds out he could have had foreskin , because his favorite thing to do while taking a bath is play hide and seek with his pee pee......lmao

I don't think Nicko gave an opinion in his post just a statistic and I'm unsure if this is based on medicare figures or if it includes private consultations. While I agree that the percentage has decreased over the years...eg the majority of males born prior to and into the early 1980's will more than likely have been circumcised (at least the ones I know of.) That is my generation and my son's generation, most of them have been done and, from what I have observed among my sons/daughter's friends they will continue on and have their own sons done, because...well just because little Johnny's penis should look exactly like dad's.

IMO that is not a good enough reason to have such a painful procedure done.

Why should we decide how our children's genitals should look? If there is a medical need that's fine, otherwise leave it alone. After all, once they are old enough they can decide.

Yes, the foreskin can be too tight. Like any opening, if you try and force it, it will tear!

Of course this is not boys alone is it? What about female genital mutilation? Discuss...

I wasn't sure about mentioning that one Michael...but I'm willing to let it ride. Female genital mutilation? OK...that's where the clitoris is removed so that no pleasure can be received during sex...very different from the male version and...not legal in Australia...I also believe it's done much later in a girl's life and must hurt, and be remembered much more....

Many studies proved that circumcision can lower the rate of penile carcinoma significantly, that might be a very good reason to justify that painful procedure for our children :)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3139859/

But speaking about it for the females, that would be a real crime and very unacceptable.

I would like to think that any sensible adult would agree that female circumcision is literally just mutilation. There is simply no excuse for it.

You would hope that to be the case, but female circumcision occurs as a sub-culture in several parts of the world. A means of male dominance and ownership.

If anyone here is for female genital mutilation, please jump off a bridge.

(I didn't say how high or to die.. lol)

I probably shouldn't have been reading through these posts whilst eating a mince pie,

feeling a bit queasy now

Bahahahahaha, good one, D.

Ritual = as done for religious reasons

^ like in Islam. In Islam males are all circumcised because it is hygienic. In fact, if a male is not circumcised they have to get it done before marriage or hajj (pilgrimage to Mecca).

I'm for male circumcision for two reasons. One is the religious and the other is the medical. I know not all boys need to get it done, but prevention is better than waiting to see if it causes harm. It's painful, but the pain will last a while and then he'll be ok. Plus having it at a young age will mean that he'll forget the pain and procedure.

As for female circumcision it's just pure evil. It has a lot of disadvantages and nothing ''good'' comes out of it.

The problem I have with the medical argument is this: there are many evolutionary hiccups on the human body - things that don't work as well as they should or simply no longer have value, eg, the appendix. Why not simply take everyone's appendix out from birth, then, to prevent the possibility of appendicitis?
Why not remove a woman's breasts after she has had children to prevent breast cancer? Why not simply do the same to men's testicles to prevent testicular cancer?
Extreme examples, maybe, but the point is there. Where do we stop before it starts getting absurd? Let's just take ourselves to pieces at birth to prevent any future medical issue.
As for the religious reasons. I'm sorry, but God (if you believe it was him that put it there in the first place) did not give boys a foreskin to have it painfully lopped off whilst barely out of the womb.
That would - surely - be a rather sick joke. He does not expect that of us.
However, as above, when it is necessary, it is an important procedure that can change a boys life for the better, certainly.

All the best

Actually it was God who commanded circumcision for the Jewish population.. so yes, He did expect that. :)

Britt, that is your opinion. I disagree. Not necessarily about there being a God to begin with, but simply about demanding his creation chopped off at birth. It strikes me as moderately absurd.
I feel, personally, to base current medical procedures on a text that was written millennia ago (which we now know - certainly in parts - to be wrong) cannot be the obvious solution. I also cannot imagine that God ever once pointed his finger at the jews or any other people and said "Thou shall now cut thy foreskin from thy willies"! lol Again, I imagine it's down to your own beliefs but that one strikes me as unlikely.

Anyway, interesting views and the above is only my opinion.

All the very best, Britt (everyone else)
Ben

Then God said to Abraham, "Your responsibility is to obey the terms of the covenant. You and all your descendants have this continual responsibility. This is the covenant that you and your descendants must keep: Each male among you must be circumcised. You must cut off the flesh of your foreskin as a sign of the covenant between me and you. From generation to generation, every male child must be circumcised on the eighth day after his birth. This applies not only to members of your family but also to the servants born in your household and the foreign-born servants whom you have purchased. All must be circumcised. Your bodies will bear the mark of my everlasting covenant. Any male who fails to be circumcised will be cut off from the covenant family for breaking the covenant."
Genesis 17:9-14 NLT
http://bible.com/116/gen.17.9-14.NLT

I mean, he quite literally said to cut the foreskin... lol

I know theologically we disagree, and that's not my point. My point is it is in the Bible.

I realise it's in the bible, but I just don't believe he really said that. As above, many parts of the bible are now acknowledged - even among Christians - to be inaccurate. Put it this way, I do not believe that God would send anyone to hell for having a complete willy - what kind of God would that be?

A just God. God is loving, yes, but He is not all accepting to those who do not believe.

I disagree. It's in the Bible, which was God breathed. He said it. :)

Ok Britt, I can look forward to hell with my foreskin in tact at least. At this point I should probably remind you of the MILLIONs of Christians around the world who - seemingly - are also destined for the beneath!

This isnt a command for everyone but for Jews, it's the covenant between Abraham and God. Totally different.

I sin daily. It's not about being perfect, or having it all right. That's never what I've said. :)

I am neither an atheist nor religious - I do not really know, as none of us REALLY do. But I always find it odd that an atheist can say God doesn't exist and cause great offense but a believer can say God does exist to an atheist, and it is fine. But not only that, they can say things like you will go to hell if you have a foreskin. What really is more offensive?
It's a confusing life......and I will never look upon my humble foreskin the same way again! It seems it has damned me to hell. And I thought it was the endless affairs, drugs and rock n roll that would do it.....:(

*edit - just read your post, Britt. The Jews, then, can feel hard done by

I am rather attached to mine. lol

Didn't God make man in his own image? Is God circumcised? ...Perhaps that's way female Porn stars scream, 'Oh, God, yes!' When they climax? Anyone for the snip?

Good Lord, Michael - I think I have just laughed mine off! Really, my ribs are rather delicate after that post!
Anyway.................................how do you know? :)
Take care all.

Hellon, your underlying intention was to find out more about the penises on this site. True or false? ;)