Thoughts from a biased Judge

First let me begin by telling a story. Last year my Nephew played little league and was awarded the most valuable player award, they gave him the award because he tried hard, and gave it his all, personally I was livid, because he had 2 hits all year, batted way under the Mendoza line for those who know baseball , yet there was a girl on his team that practiced every day on and off the field , who batted over .700 (which is unheard of) and was by far the best player in the entire league. So her efforts weren't rewarded at all. I don't believe in giving trophies to those that don't earn them, it lowers the standards, and the desire to better oneself.........What does this have to do with anything, we'll get to that later.
A question was asked about 2 months ago about why a judge didn't comment or vote on a 4 points poem. That Judge in question was me and the answer quite simply is this, I read every poem submitted that week and could only come up with two that I felt was good enough to represent the front page, it was one of the worst weeks of selections in my opinion. I was blasted by a moderator for doing so, with the comment that my standards or expectations might be a little too high for this site. I refuse to believe that as was seen in the following weeks and especially this month where there were an abundance of poems that were good enough to represent any front page of a poetry site. We have a lot of talent on this site, sometimes that talent is over shadowed by the constant I'll nominate you, you nominate me type thing, or poems being nominated that shouldn't be nominated.....(now mind you this is only my opinion and as many of you know, I stand behind it, right or wrong).....last week for instance there were poems that read more like standard essays or fragmented short stories more than poetry and yet even the lack of flow couldn't stop them from being voted to the front page, because of the writer and the content. I think we need to define what is or isn't poetry. Yes I know, people say anything can be a poem, and that's just not true.....Anyhow, I don't apologize for not voting or commenting when I felt one wasn't deserved.
Next there was a thread about judges being biased, naturally they are biased, they like what they like, no matter how fair or impartial one tries to be, you'll still be biased in one way or another, and it could actually be a good thing. I don't know who any of the other judges were, don't want to know, I think they all did a great job and many times the bias or opinions showed itself on the selections, because there was only one week when all of my selections made the front page and ironically it was an all moderator sweep. Now let me explain how I made my selections, I'd come on the site if I had some free times, read a few nominations, write down the name of the poem, some notes, seldom did I look at even the Authors name or who nominated them......after I had read all the nominations, usually by Sat. night, I'd go to sleep and the ones that stood out after I ran through all of them again on Sunday that's who I picked, one time I actually flipped a coin for the top spot between two poets.......and I owe Ben an apology because one week I thought he had the best three poems , yet I only voted for one of his in the top spot, and picked two other authors instead for the remaining two slots.....so yeah that was a bad bias. The authors and those nominating never came into play in making my selections except that one week, and groups, I don't know who belongs to what group anymore and could care less.......
Before I close let me say I was right, my standards aren't above this site at all, because many of you far exceed them and have the potential to go even further than we could ever imagine with your writing ability. There are a slew of talented writers here and a slew more that could be just as talented if they put forth the effort and seek to enhance or improve their work.....I was proud of the way many of you have stepped up your game and delivered such quality pieces during a time where your talents and efforts were being questioned......Have a great day, and it was truly a pleasure to be a biased judge, and to the moderators who took the time weekly to put together all the comments and the votes, you did a remarkable job and thanks for bailing me out when i forgot to vote after making the selections. That has to be some tedious work, we should all appreciate the efforts......Any questions, feel free.

Wow, I am truly shocked. I never had a clue you were a judge. Now let me say as well, when the biased judging thing was brought to main boards, I was offended and thought it was being directed at my choices, yes I was a judge as well. I still feel like it was being directed towards some of my choices, as I did vote for some quite often. Ben being one of them, Andrea another. I carefully considered every single poem every single week. To be honest, before my judging term, Ben won one week with three poems and I thought to myself there had to be something else worthy of winning other than 3 of Ben's poems. I don't know because I wasn't a judge then and didn't read all the nominated poems that week.But in all honesty the first couple of weeks as a judge I overlooked Ben's poetry simply because I thought he won too much. That wasn't fair and it was very biased of me to do so. He honestly has some fantastic poems and he truly deserved my nominations and points a couple of times when I overlooked him. I quickly got over that and fell in love with his poetry, and found myself voting for his quite consistently. He writes a lot so he would have many nominations each week. I know exactly the week Bob is referring to as not as many quality poems then boom we were overloaded with awesome poems making it hard to narrow down. There are a lot of talented writers on this site and being biased is simply natural. We connect with some people's poetry more than others at times. My decisions this week have already been made and I don't regret a single one. I narrowed it down based on how the poems made me feel this week with all poetic value thrown to the side. I found myself also voting for a lot of PR's poems, as was questioned, not because it was PR or anything but because those were the poems I connected with. I have also voted in the past for poems from people I had "run-ins" with, because personal feelings aside I liked their poetry. I enjoyed this judging term, but now to focus on commenting more and nominating for the next round of judges will be my priority. If anyone has questions on my picks please feel free to ask, I will add all my comments to poems throughout the term this upcoming week.

It's hard as hell sifting through 30 + poems and trying to pick three, especially when there are 10-12 that are deserving of front page exposure, thanks for stepping up to be a judge, unless you've been one, you'll never know, but in the end it's definitely worth it.

Full disclosure: I am the mod who "blasted" Bob for declining to pick a third poem. Actually I thought I merely suggested the idea, did not realize it was taken so harshly, so I apologize, Bob. I may also have mis-spoken when I said none of us are poet laureates as it seems Ben has the makings for it.

Each of the mods has subbed in this term for one judge or another. I agree with Bob & Kay that sometimes it is difficult to narrow it down to only 3 and often even harder to decide how to rank those three for the 10, 7 or 4 vote.

I have only sincere thanks for those who judge, and suggest that if you think you don't have the time for the commitment, try doing it only every other week. We've done that before. It is tricky to keep in on your schedule, but imminently doable.

I apologize for hijacking this thread with all my past comments as a judge, Save for this week. I wanted all of them in one spot so I can transfer more easily to each poem. Just overlook them or read them all. Entirely up to you. I also added them here so one could see the amount of times I voted for whom. If someone wants to do the math, go ahead. I did a little and it shows I voted for Andrea the most 7 times (one was a collaboration with Mr. Darcy) then Ben 5 times, then Poet on the piano 4 times, who is actually a member of my club. I don't believe it was bias, these 3 people generated more poems Consistently being nominated. There are 18 different people that I voted at least one time for in my term. Of those 16, 10 of those were writers I haven't heard of before and don't see on the main boards. 2 of those writers I have voted for got more than one vote from me in separate weeks. I was constantly looking for new people. Anyway, I think it's a crock when one has to defend and justify their voting, that is the beauty of being a judge.

Stained Apron by Maple Tree 
(10pts.)

What a joyful and reminiscent poem about longing for the past. You have created a lovely picture with your poetry, one that symbolizes youth and a harder way of life than what many have come accustomed to in this era of hustle and bustle. The title ties in beautifully with the poem. The poem allowed me to visualize things as they were told. 

Mondays @ 9 by Poet on the Piano
(7pts.)

Loved the beginning to the poem and how descriptive as though it was almost a job you were referring to attending. Then hence the title, a weekly chore, one to release emotions, thoughts, feelings and the latest happenings. What I adored most was that there was never a mention of it actually being a psychiatrist but that the scene was described so it didn't have to be told. A lovely poetess once told me " you don't have to tell everything you know" that it's for the reader to determine. That is why I love this poem. 

The Tidy Gardener by Mr Darcy
(4pts.)

As adoring of funny poems as I am, I couldn't let this slip through. Quite uniquely you also slipped in an acrostic to sound out comically the noise the rake made. I literally laughed at this poem. Huge smiles and great write, thanks for the laugh. 

Monday's @9 (10pts.)
Poet on the Piano

The writer speaks of intense details, such as "New sneakers with the tags still on" , leather chair and how pillows aren't as easily placed for the writer and how one cup of coffee was rare. These details are much needed as it brings a sense there is some OCD going on but most importantly it seems there is a struggle within. One of depression, which is a very serious subject for a lot of people. The poem explains the fight and struggle of depression. Wonderfully written poem. I enjoyed this poem because I feel we all can do much more with our life than we ever thought possible if only we believe in ourselves. 

Alphabet Acrostic (7pts.)
Bob Shank

Infinite wisdom unleashed in this cleverly written Acrostic. A poem with strength, lessons and trials that no matter the chosen life path there are reasons for it. Though we encounter negativity from others if you search the truth you can overcome any obstacle. Enjoyed this so much. 

Freedom (4pts.)
Timothy

This poem touched me and brought me to tears. Beautifully written and heartfelt loss on losing a child. The title is beautiful and fits because once death has arrived can only freedom be truly gained. 

When with you I lay (diatelle)
By Meena Krish (10)

Delightful read. Forms tend to be a little difficult, especially adhering to the rules is increasingly painful to match. As for subject matter, all I can say is, WOW! I normally don't care for sad poetry but, this poem just had the punch in the gut of memories. Reminds me of Adele's song "hello" for some reason. Wonderful write!

Sleeps well the earth by cassie Hughes (7)

I adore nature poetry, especially when it envelops the reader with a feeling of being there. I personally would like to see this broken up a bit into some stanzas to help with the fluidity of the poem. For example like with "the earth turns" standing on its own. Other than that personal suggestion, the poem has beauty and depth. My favorite part of the poem is " snuggled under natures blanket,
crisp and starched she bides" because it lets the reader feel the craziness of the earth and allows for description of the snow being crisp and starched like a cool set of sheets must feel when wrapped on a cold night. Lovely write.

Before it begun by Yakari Gabriel (4)
Such sadness in such poetic embullience. Speaking volumes of sadness that can be related to recent world events as well as other events. I don't know if it was intentional that the poet said "they used to be plenty of it" instead of ....there used to be plenty of it. I know in some languages some do not use English as a first hand language and therefore confuse words. Regardless, I took it as intentional because it seemed that's how the writer intended it. Awesome, powerful write 

Insidious malice by cassie hughes (10)

I tend to watch a lot of shows on ID , investigation discovery, they have a lot of true crime type shows that investigate homicides. This write has a very dark side that could coincide with the show. I can just hear it as an entry to one of the shows being spoken in an Vincent Price voice. Truly a dark, interesting write that was enjoyed. I have only just discovered you as a poetess and am really liking what you have written. 

Ink splotted bricks by adreamer (7)

This is a finely penned piece that reads as a story, but ever so poetic. I still felt there should have been more punctuation. There were a few places where I wasn't sure where to pause. I was very impressed with the subject of the write. The poem didn't directly mention the type of art but is implied it is writing. Looking forward to reading more from you as I really enjoyed this. My favorite line was " where culture means more than the language barriers". Wow what an insight in so few words.

An Angel's tale by Ben Pickard (4)

Such a lovely poem. You have a very ornate way of writing. It allows the reader to feel what you are describing. There are many people who have lost loved ones that will find comfort in this poem 

Stale by maher (10)

Usually I don't care for a "lover scorned" poem, but this one, felt like so much more. It had a spectacular flow that engaged the reader, and almost seemed as though it was a kind of formed poetry, because there were certain areas of the poem that just seemed as though it were. Alone with thoughts and muse of heavens, the devil delighted in the discourse of this poets prose. My favorite write of the week, with many thought provoking lines, impeccable flow and heart penned musings

The colors of humanity by Bob Shank (7)
Undoubtedly you speak of people, characters, writers and such that not many will understand when reading this exquisite gem you have penned. "Its wood burned food for thought"~~Wow~~ What truly profound thinking here. Truly a heartbreaking write, and a shame the message will be misconstrued or misunderstood by some. 

My ambient hell by shawn (4)

A very sad write indeed. It is obvious the writer has dealt with such betrayal to speak of it in words that hold so much empathetic feeling. I was truly engulfed in this write, it brought back memories of such an overwhelming helpless situation from the past. Just one minor correction on this phenomenal piece, I believe the word "trashing" should be "Thrashing". That may have been overlooked by the writer but does not lessen the power of this write. 

Sparkling by yogi73 (10)

A delightful read that coincides with the season at hand. Love the title as it encompasses the playfulness of the poem,Like through a child's eyes. Beautiful poem and such a pleasure to read. Will be on my favorites to remember so I can enjoy repeatedly.

Song above the sorrow By Satish Verma (7)
Perfect title, which is an hard thing to do. Such an amazing write I find myself reading over and over again. Really enjoyed the imagery and metaphoric weight used throughout this poem.

How did we get here? By Cara (4)

It's clear to see from this poem the pain involved in the writing is first hand knowledge. Yes, it can happen to anyone. This poems hits very close to home with me. Wasn't expecting to find a poem of this subject when reading poems this week with Holiday coming up. Most poems submitted are winter, holiday or joy found poetry centered around the season. This poem deserves highlight for its ability to bring forth an unfortunate epidemic; domestic violence. Agreed that it shows no preference to class, race or religion, it is simply arrogance, control and evil at its finest. Unless one has walked a mile in those shoes they will never know the boundaries of the aggressor nor the victim(s). Kudos to you for writing this

Elizabeth Street by Maple Tree (10)

Holy Smokes! It's very easy to see why this is my top choice for the week. This write is a powerhouse of emotions. Time is not essentially a healer, we just learn to cope with our lives. 

Outcast by Cindy (7)

This write certainly brings tears to my eyes. As we ponder all we have done over the course of life, we hope it has been good enough. It was certainly our best that we could do at the time. Very well written. 

Head Stone by Michael Nalley (4)

Michael portrayed a heartbreaking write of age and wisdom meeting time and the inevitable. Truly one of my favorites writes ever from this author. I wonder if it was intentional to separate the words Head and Stone in the title, depicting life clouded with thoughts of death, instead of headstone of a grave. 

Cry amongst the daffodils (10) by Ben Pickard
I can't read this without feeling immense sadness. You have penned a beautiful yet painful write. Wether it's speaking of love or friendship, it's one and the same. When we lose someone (seems a childhood friend or sibling in this case) we are often fraught with regret and questions of Why. This write pulls all of this together and is exquisitely written. Applause through tears.

Ode to my moon (7) by Maple tree
Oh Andrea, you have such a beautiful way with your poetry. I envy your ability to always draw in readers.
This poem has a certain ambiance that comes with reading. Perhaps it's the moon that seems to set the tone for it. Lovely write. 

Deaf City (4) by Satish Verma
With each word your poetry seems to have an edge to it that isn't found in most poetry on this site. Each poem I have read seems to be growing with wisdom throughout that brings enjoyment. This poem is no different, I am glad I stumbled across this gem of a poet. Much enjoyed 

Crystallized Dream (collaboration) by Maple Tree
(10)
I was very impressed with this collaboration! The flow was impeccable and one can not discern between the two writers. It is hard enough to achieve this alone and bring a union of thought to poetry without breaking the idea. The poem opens with a strong line and finishes with one as well. It gave a Phantom of the opera type feel to me in a ballerinaesque style. Phenomenal and euphoric write from two undeniably talented writers. I cannot wait to see another collaboration from you both. 

Night Shift by Ren (7)

What a unique side to the sadness that paramedics, nurses, doctors and police must feel when they encounter this. I have a close friend that is a paramedic and some of the things he has experienced are ingrained in his mind forever. He doesn't forget the faces, they are forever burned in his mind, both the lost and the mourners. I enjoyed this write and it was appropriately titled, loved the blending with the title to the subject of the poem.

Bonfire by Poet on the Piano(4)

How many times have I felt this way? Countless times I can honestly say. To start over a have a new poet/person arise from the remnants of what used to be. Ahhh we can dream though. Wonderfully penned and loved the metaphoric tone the poem gave. 

Cliffhanger by Bob Shank (10)

Knowing how passionate the writer is about helping youth, underprivileged, handicapped and elderly people, this poem is deeply an embodiment of the struggle to help everyone. Clearly an emotional write. For easier read I think a further separation from the personal note at the end is needed. It could have actually read as a continuation of the poem itself save the name.

Soil moist with acid rain by Ben Pickard (7)

I felt connected with this poem in a way I am sure was unintended. "The trail of tears" came to mind and the governments overthrow of Native Americans. I suppose it was redolent of this because of key words or phrases such as "On concrete roads, suppressing grass" and "yellow corn". Regardless, it is in the nature category and does seem as though it relates to today as well. Handsomely written as per usual by a phenomenal poet. 

Disintegrated by Baby Rainbow (4)

Such a very sad piece. Not only did the writer pour her heart out in the rain, she obviously poured it into this poem. Quite a dismal, heartbreaking piece about lost love. Too many times a relationship is founded on lies. This poem is remarkable for its ability to to make one sympathetic to the writer. Structure and flow were great. 

Diamond studded tomb (10pts.)
By Meena Krish

From the title to every exquisite detail of this beautifully crafted poem I have enjoyed it to the nth.
My favorite genre is Nature and it thrills me when someone writes a carefully detailed poem about it. You have woven (pun intended) the most delightful poem about my greatest fear. I detest spiders in every shape, size and color, but, I loved this poem so much. Several years ago I had a small web that formed every day around sundown. I was intrigued by the beauty and my fear. This spider chose my front porch for sustenance and possibly the rest of her life. (It is a her because I deemed it so). Your poem brought to mind that memory and made me think of the little delicate spider and I smiled more than I cringed.

Where did you go? (7pts.)
By Larry Chamberlain

"It is a desperate situation when we realize depression has overtaken someone we love. We often blame ourselves for not seeing the warning signs. I believe that if we are too close to the situation it's kind of hard to see because we on blinders. Thinking they will come to us and that our hug or words of encouragement are enough to sustain them through a difficult mental process. This poem makes me think that it is written for a spouse, because of the wording. It seems as though it definitely was an intimate relationship and the male feels like he is no longer protector. Also the first sentence in the stanza below reminds me of a line from classic wedding vows, "what God has put together, let no man put asunder".

"What has God wrought
for this mortal sufferer
that he deems her loss
part of life's goodness?"

The closing stanza had so much ummphhh to it with the closing line. So be it that sometimes we have done all we can do to a fault that the depression acts as a virus, infecting all who loves her. Makes life unbearable to see someone hurt with this amount of pain.
I wish I could explain in greater detail why this poem hits so close to home

Dead Winter (4pts.)
By Maple tree

Week after week I find myself drawn to your poetry and it is usually on my list of favorites for judging. I beg of you madam, please quit writing such phenomenal poetry, people will really begin to talk. Mehhh, let them talk at will. It is no less the greater if they do or don't talk. With that being said and to the seriousness of this poem, it is chilling, dark and even mysterious. This so much more than just a "winter blues" type of poem. It encompasses an undertone of mental anguish caused by a chosen life path. Much enjoyed!! 

Decrepit (10)
Poet on the Piano

Outstanding job on a prompt. This reaches down into the recesses of my soul and toys with religion and love. Loved the imagery throughout. 

I will not settle for the dregs (7)
Ben Pickard

It is so hard week after week deciding with the amount of quality poetry you write if I should choose yours or someone else. This poem however, was a winner hands down for me. It exuded a strong will and powerful presence and I admired that. 

French Bread poem (4) 
Mr. Darcy

This write had me longing for a trip to France. Bucket list of wishes. Another fantastic write from a prompt. Absolutely gorgeous imagery, use of language entwined with magic. Lovely. Just lovely! 

Somnolent (10)
By Ben Pickard

The syntactic approach in this poem was extremely well written. If one were to decipher and analyze this poem stanza by stanza, phrase by phrase and word by word, they would find an exquisitely written masterpiece. This is definitely a poem for the ages, one that withstands the test of time and will likely be a favorite among many. In my opinion it is the poem that will link you to being a much favored poet. Needless to say as you can tell I am quite enamored with this poem. There are only 4 other poems written by members on this site that I feel this strongly about. Now, for the poem and trying to give proper accolades. 
I adore the absolute perfection of grammar used throughout. Pauses were natural and flow was impeccable all the while separation of climatic instance was highlighted (figuratively speaking). 

To a friend (7)
By Koan

This writer is synonymous with eloquent writes. Normally, this writers poems are longer and fanciful of poetic metaphors and filled with love. I found this poem to have a perfect balance of both. A wonderfully written poem paying respects to friendship. It was such a pleasure to read this poem. The gracious and thankful nature of this poem of living a life with the best of friends really touches the heart.

Schizophrenias Children (4)
By Maple tree

Wow what a saddening accurate write to this terrible affliction. This poem actually reminds me of a song by Metallica called Welcome home (sanitarium). One particular part of this poem brings to light the truths of this affliction. 
" for those who chewed
sanity to shreds,
because the voices told them to do so."

^Wow, I am just absolutely haunted by images of patients/victims being strapped down in an asylum and chewing through the straps trying to free themselves from the paranoia as well. There is a nearby "mental institution" that in the 60's and 70's treated schizophrenia, post partum depression and other similar disorders with shock therapy. This poem brings to light the struggle even now to diagnose and dispense illnesses correctly. Very intense write and as always you never fail to please the readers appetite for your words, no matter the subject or genre. 

Life summed up! By Jnair (10)

Childhood, like the white lacy foam riding on dancing waves
Gleefully surge on to the shore carrying exciting secrets of the ocean's core.
Bursting with joy, wanting to share it all
Only to be cheated and left behind, stuck on wet shores� 
Sadly vanishing into grains of sand
Tearfully watching the receding waves.

^This stanza describes childhood to a tee. I could imagine a toddler with an inquisitive and vivacious attitude, venturing away from Mom and Dad to test the waters so to speak to learn what they can or cannot get away with. In this stanzas instance learning what they thought they wished for. It also describes teen and young adulthood, before the responsibilities of life and bills.

"Like the bursting bubbles in an effervescent drink,
Youth rushes with exciting moments only to fizzle out at the end.
The vivaciousness of an enchanting and promising evening� 
Bursts and evaporates as night dances into its darkest core."

^This stanza describes the realizations of bills, kids and dreams never accomplished. It has a Cinderella feel to it that everything changes after midnight, and there's still the laundry, cooking and cleaning at the end of the day.

"And all your dreams, like the little prince riding on grandpa's walking stick,
Brandishing a make believe sword,
You charge through life with all your faith,� 
Under the illusion of conquering the world.

Only to end up as a withered old stump,� 
Where dogs stray, only to take a leak"

^Perfectly summed up in one poem....Life! Loved the satirical climax and how accurately it fits for what it seems life is. Enjoyable read and it made me smile, that is why it's my top pick this week.

Old Tree by Poetess
(7)
The writer brings life to the tree with simile by comparing limbs to arms and bark to flesh and even death to real life events in the conclusion. Such a heartbreaking, beautiful write. Never underestimate the power of poetry. This poem kept me interested from start to finish. I thought the word "wearisomely" was a little awkward and that wearily would flow better. I wasn't even sure if wearisomely was an actual word because spell check kept underlining it. However, it is a word and I believe also used correctly.

Smoke by Silvershoes (4)

This is incredibly sad. My fanimals are my family. I know first-hand how heartbreaking it is to lose one. Knowing this was an true account, such a heartbreaking beautiful write came from the loss. There is not much more one could say about this write. Wonderfully written, my heart goes out to you during your time of bereavement. 

He gives me stars (10)
By Maple Tree

I cannot say that I sympathize with you, rather more like empathize. Cancer is the most selfish word, it steals, debilitates and is agonizing for not only the affected but also loved ones. It is hard to vote on a poem that is so personal, but it is also very well written. Nothing more can be said without being redundant. 

Generational (7)
By Britt

Wow! This poem is so intense! So many feelings, emotions and the struggles of learned behaviors vs. genetic behaviors and the succession of faith. The first stanza....Wow, reminds me of "Wrecking Ball" by Miley Cyrus. Fighting into the age of reason we sometimes just don't understand things or why they are like they are. I love all the references to liquid of some sort (hurricanes, swimming, toes dipped and dunk). Whether or not it was intentional, the word use symbolizes a rebirth to me. A baptism or re-dedication to Christ in spite of your past. Powerful write!

Heimwee (4) u
By Yakari Gabriel

There is so much wisdom in this poem. As teenagers and young adults we often fight against the grain, the very grain of the board we are cut from. Too often we don't realize it soon enough. This poetess has shown so much growth over the years. I have to applaud her on the wisdom and beauty she pens. As a young teen myself I despised my mother, was actually quite embarrassed of her. If only I knew then, what I know now, I would have ran and embraced her and been all the better for it. Awesome write!! 

Kay, if it were put to a vote, I think 99 of 100 would say you have NO need to justify any votes. Put these comments on the poems for which they were written and sleep easy - without regrets. ;8-)

A sincere thank you to all the judges as per every week (whether they pick me or not) simply for the time invested in what really cannot be an easy job sometimes.

*Kay, an honest mistake, I know, but I have never won 3 times in one week. In fact, the only time since I joined the site that a poet has won with more than a single piece (that I can remember) is Senryu (Mark) when he got two 5 or 6 months back. Still........here's hoping!

All the very best everyone,
Ben

I was a judge as well.... It's all about the poetry for me....

One week I had 8 poems...I wanted to choose them all...I read all of them so much to help me determine my final 3 that I was starting to recite stanzas....ha ha!

That's how seriously I take this judging opportunity.. Yes,there are times when certain statements were made that made me roll my eyeballs..but it won't stop me from volunteering my time to help out the site.

I stand corrected Ben, my apologies, I do believe it was three weeks in a row maybe, I don't remember correctly. I am sorry I didn't give you a fair shake to begin with because I felt like you won all the time. Now, I know why you consistently won. Your poetry is amazing.

Andrea there was one week I had multiple poems as well, I think 7 or 8. This week was hard also, I had five poems initially, but I managed to narrow it down.

Re: Bob's first post here:
Everyone's biased and that's ok. I think that if you have issues with poems that get nominated and make the front page you should own those issues and comment directly on the poems themselves (not as a judge, obviously) with that constructive criticism. That way you aren't rewarding those who, (in your opinion), don't work hard enough, and you also won't be allowing the site to be bogged down in what you consider non-poetry. There's a clear tendency to only leave votes of 5 on poetry here, along with glowing comments. And that's all very nice (you're all such nice, wonderful people) but eventually, when everything's voting in at the same amount, it gets hard to differentiate what is good, and what is "wow". Be the change you wish to see, yeah?

FYI: Anna Stephens won with two poems on the same week at the end of October
The Land I Love &
Every Afternoon at Four

Bob, you can think something is not a poem, but that doesn't make it fact. Poetry is subjective. Taste varies. We're all biased. As a judge, you get to decide what you think is poetry and what you think isn't -- you did that. You didn't vote on poems you felt were "journal entries," and that's fine. You don't get to decide for other judges what is and isn't poetry to them. Honestly, the more you all disagree, the less biased the picks are each week. That's the ultimate goal.
Also, had you decided to not give some of your votes every week, we would've needed a solution, but that's not the case. You didn't give a 4 vote one week. No problem. Larry suggested you give your 4 vote, and you didn't. Did you suffer repercussions? Nope. We're not hard asses lol. We're a squad of softies.

All of our judges did great this term. Really, you guys are awesome, and I hope you don't feel unappreciated by the mods. We appreciate you guys SO MUCH.

I have tried, for the most part, to ignore these cheap little shots aimed at me regarding bias judging that have been cropping up over the last week or so and have rolled with the punches, although I would like to point out that the original comment was not made by me nor was the thread. I decided to find out if there was any truth in the claim and, as a result have become the fall guy for some of you to leave snide remarks here and there. Once again, if you have a problem with me direct the problem to me not at me.

The initial results were just too grey for me to conclude that I was wrong, on the contrary actually and now two of the judges have confirmed that bias judging is, in fact, prevalent on this site.

One other thing I'd like to 'ask' if I may...Bob, you claim that in one of the weeks you neither voted for or commented on a 4 vote as there wasn't a poem you felt worthy of it and yet, Larry changed that post (link below) to say that a 4 vote was made but no comment given. So which was it guys?

http://www.poems-and-quotes.com/discussion/topic.html?topic_id=145205

I said it was my opinion that there are writings being nominated that I didn't view as poetry, my opinion and suffice to say, I never said or made the impression that anyone else had to agree with that opinion, however I didn't vote for anything that I didn't feel in "my opinion" wasn't poetry, and you're absolutely right, it's subjective.....unto the reader and Narph , many times I do voice constructive criticism on some poems and have been known to question formatting , essays vs. poem etc.....

Hellon, I won't take cheap shots at you or anyone else, I'll come right at you, if I have a problem with you, I didn't have a problem with anyone saying judges are biased , not at all, because it's impossible not to be, my problem is when someone includes it to insinuate that there's cheating or collusion going on, especially in my case, because I'm So detached from the goingons through the site, I don't participate anywhere near the way I used to.....and it's like old times nothing has changed, if I have some thing to say I'll say it to you or anyone else, on line or face to face........as for the week in question I actually forget, but I think I didn't select a four poem and was told, or I just picked the best of the bunch but didn't comment, I actually don't remember, maybe Larry does, I don't....I think it was the first scenario....anyways, it's a good thing to discuss it, get it out in the open and move on rather than harping on it, I just wanted to answer some questions that I couldn't answer while a judge.....

Yes Bob, sometimes we agree on things...most times we don't but, you have always been direct and straightforward with me and I've always respected you for that.

Bob selected a poem for the 4 but chose not to comment.

Hellon, seriously? Two judges have confirmed there is bias? They both were candidly discussing the nature of judging and the inescapable existence of bias. Your accusation that they are admitting bias in the sense you accused is a play on semantics. That's a broad reach. The bias you sought so hard to accuse was that a specific club was unfairly getting votes. Having been shown that no such thing occurred by Mark and Jane, just give it a rest.

And I reread the thread and do not see where you are getting any snide remarks aimed at you.

Is your beef with Ben winning so many times? If he had not been in PR the entire term they would have gotten fewer wins than many other clubs. The kid has only been here since last May and he's already got more than 1300 votes with a 5.0 rating. Yes, he's won 7 times in five months and perhaps he could easily have won two other times. He is as talented as they come. I certainly hope that was not your true complaint. because your accusation of bias has fallen flat.

EDIT: He won 5 times in this term and ten times in the eight months he's been here.

You can wrap it up in any fancy wording you like Larry but...as I said, the information Jane provided had too many grey areas for me to be convinced that there was nothing untoward going on.

Ok....two judges have 'candidly' discussed the possibility that they were bias during their term, yes call it what you may, they both have agreed that it would have been hard not to be bias.

I made it very clear in the other thread that this was nothing to do with Ben Pickard or his winning streak. Ben just made it that way and, as the thread was removed I have no way of proving what I said...just have to hope you all have good memories.

Finally...I never accused anyone of anything...I just said I 'thought' one of the judges was also a PR member and, although you denied this judge had been on board the whole time turns out they only missed one week.

EDIT

The snide remarks I was referring to are not on this thread but, they are around.

You cannot cover the sun with one finger.

"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact".

You know..in situations like these, where questions need answers, I always come out batting for the underdog...they are the members who I feel could have been overlooked in favour of well...more popular/clique types and...from the pm's I've received backing this I've carried on with it but now...I'm drained...I've had enough..stop sitting on the fence you guys..time to fight your own battles..I'm done for now...

Hellon

The fact remains that you opened your argument on the previous thread with wording like "now two from PR in one week? Coincidence?"

I had had no issue up to that point but it is very hard not to take that personally as the clear insinuation is that myself and Koan won for a reason other than the quality of our poems. I am not talking about other weeks, I am talking about that week and that opening comment from you.
Jane and Mark all but snuffed out that accusation. Not conclusively (that would be all but impossible) but just about. It isn't you raising the question that is the problem, it's the way you do it. "Now two in one week from PR? Coincidence?" Just read that back, think what it led to, think of that lack of evidence to back that rather bold statement up with and ask if you coud have perhaps played this a little better.
I have apologised for my part in it - I took some underhanded swipes at you that I regret, but you have accused people consistently of bias with no hard evidence and you simply cannot do that. You haven't even apologised once for probably being wrong.
I am not starting another argument so please don't accuse me of that but you said that I made it about myself. Again, you are bringing me into it.

Just so it's clear, I took Hellon's statement on the previous thread personally, yes, and if everyone on here reads it back, I'm sure they will understand why.

Now please, can we just let this go?

Ben

ps*"Now two from PR in one week? Coincidence?"

Hellon, if you honestly cannot read that back with any form of regret or understanding of how any rational person would take it, then there truly is nothing left to say.
Once again, I apologise for my part in the argument - take it or leave it - but please try and understand that you are not blameless in this by any means. Comments like that cause offence (especially unfounded) and will always lead to trouble. Maybe in future just consider being more moderate in your approach.
If you didn't mean it personally, that's fine, and I accept that, but at least try and understand why I took it that way.
I feel I have done my best now with this, I don't want anymore animosity (I never have) and have tried to make clear to everyone why (rightly or wrongly) I did get involved previously after reading your comment. I did not "make it about myself " for the want of it, only because it reads as a slight. As above, if there was no intention, fine, I accept that, but try and understand how it looks to me.

To make clear, finally, on a post addressed to everyone, I only come on here to read and write poetry, I do not want animosity with anyone and I want to leave this here now.
My part in this is well and truly done and I hope everyone (including Hellon) can now understand why I got involved initially but also the pointlessness of the continuation of this "debate".

All the very best to everyone,
Ben

Hellon,

The judges are human, and will be inherently biased to some degree, they're not robots to operate free of 100% bias, but my question to you, is what do you propose that we do to ensure that from this point on out there is no bias? How are we to identify bias, and how do we deal with it?

What if there is a judge voting for two poems by X person, are we to prevent that, even if the judge truly believes those two poems are worthy of those votes?

What if there is a judge voting for a poem by X person each week, because X is putting out poems that the judge likes? Are we to prevent that? How are we to clearly identify without a doubt, that the judge is going out of their way to vote for just X's poems without any consideration for poems for Y, Z's poems?

Hypothetically speaking if we, as a community were to implement some sort of rules, saying that you cannot vote for peers of your own clubs, that you cannot vote for 2-3 poems that are written by X, and that you cannot vote for X's poems Y amount of times in a given month/term, we're essentially limiting the judge's control to vote on the poems they see fairly, and essentially introducing new bias. What if X was snubbed on wins, because since judge X couldn't vote for the X's poems because of these rules?

Bias: "prejudice in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another, usually in a way considered to be unfair"

Hellon, I submit that both Bob and Kay chose the wrong word in stating their judging styles, which played into your purposeful twist of their meaning to foment distrust.

A proper word they might have used is "preference" as in preference for a particular style or quality of writing.

****************************

Regarding instituting artificial limits against quality, let me remind everyone that years ago we had a policy that the same person could not win the contest two weeks in a row. As a result, quality poems were passed up in favor of lesser poems that were "legal" to vote for.

Https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwixg6Hm6JvLAhUEZCYKHcgOAboQFggiMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Ftheodysseyonline.com%2Func-asheville%2Fcommentary-objective-study%2F158034&usg=AFQjCNGLv5SnZzZZNhgNqGdLpaVr6zsk8w

^a great article on why some biases can be a good thing

Hellon, I submit that both Bob and Kay chose the wrong word in stating their judging styles, which played into your purposeful twist of their meaning to foment distrust

^^^

purposeful twist of their meaning? What exactly does that mean? I twisted absolutely nothing...their words are there for all to see.

Mark

but my question to you, is what do you propose that we do to ensure that from this point on out there is no bias? How are we to identify bias, and how do we deal with it?
^^^

I liked your whole post Mark...it shows me that you can (perhaps) see a problem and you are unbiased enough to address it rather that defend it. Unfortunately I cannot answer your question..I always though the mods paid attention to how the votes went anyway but now I see that's not the case..some don't even seem to know who the judges are from week to week so..perhaps start there. Like I said, I'm not sure. I'm willing to help in anyway I can...if I can.

Hellon, perhaps you're right. Let's ask:

Bob and Kay, and any former judge,

1 - did you mean in your posts that you cast your votes in an unfair manner?

2 - did you refer to the human fact of having preferences for style and quality?

3 - did you cast your votes for the poems you thought were the best?

1. I tried to be as fair and as impartial as I possibly could, which is why i just clicked on poems nominated before reading the Authors name or who nominated them, and never once did I click on an Authors profile.

2. I like a variety of poetry and prose, but the number one thing I look for is flow, then profoundness, uniqueness, content, and I absolutely love a poem that finishes.....

3. Only one time did I not vote for the best top three, because the best top three were by the same Author, I actually had to go back and redo my entire selection process, because I didn't realize they were by the same Author until I went to write up the vote submission.....and as I alluded to on one occasion I actually flipped a coin between number 1 and number 2........I think there was one week, none of my selections made it, most weeks it was 2, or just one and only one week did all my selections make the front page, so I guess everyone has a differing opinion, and that's a good thing.

Mark

but my question to you, is what do you propose that we do to ensure that from this point on out there is no bias? How are we to identify bias, and how do we deal with it?

^I'm sorry, but it can't be done, or maybe that's just my opinion, people will have a bias regardless, it doesn't even have to be for an Author, or Club member, it could be a certain style of poem, even a certain phrase, subject or content....some people like emotional poems, some like humor, some like, traditional, some like styled poetry, or formed poetry.......I think the present way it's set up eliminates a lot of the negative bias's, I could give you a suggestion that would even further prevent some personal bias's from the judges, when the poems are nominated, the Authors name is removed, but how they could do that is beyond me, however I think we are putting far too much into this. I won twice while I was a judge, which is actually surprising when you consider my vote was against me.......and I personally didn't think my A to Z acrostic should have won, but like I said, some people like what they like......anyhow, let's get back to writing

1. I tried to be as fair and as impartial as I possibly could, which is why i just clicked on poems nominated before reading the Authors name or who nominated them, and never once did I click on an Authors profile.

^^

I don't know how you managed to click on a poem without seeing who the author was..poems and authors come side by side on the nomination page...

I would love for the author's name to be removed after it's nominated but you could still find it if you looked on their account I guess...still...it's something worth looking into I think...

That's one for the Janis wish list

--------

copying the poems to a word processor without the author Helps to a large degree

I was a judge some time ago and i was impartial.i have never been biased in my life. it is awful to privilege friends in detriment of a new poet or even those we look down on for no real reason. poetry is so precious and i do think we can't judge what is poetry or not because it doesn't lend itself to any definition. here lies its beauty and power. above all poetry is one of the best things we can offer in a world deprived of light, love and critical consciousness. so let the magic begins over and over again.

Just sharing some thoughts :

Poetry is thoughts. And thoughts cause feelings. And feelings cause thoughts... And thoughts can create images, and images can create thoughts... And so on and on... Etc

Hmm poetry is divided between prose and verse. theres also the in between poetry prose. To write both verse and prose with good quality requires skill.

Form poetry can be written in either verse or prose.

Serious question: would you rather have your poetry judged by a poetry robot or a panel of humans?

Serious answer..I'm not sure Abby...but...I'm not sure if your serious question was directed at serious me....

EDIT

I'm not even sure that the P&Q tie breaking judge is unbiased....

I'm not sure either. Surely some poems will always be seen as unequivocally shite, yet a promising poem might be disregarded by a human judge because they didn't get a coffee that morning? Or got too many hugs growing up? Or suddenly got bored with life? Robots don't need coffee or hugs, generally, and are very task oriented.

How do you program a computer to assess for intuition, or emotional response?

You might assign values to certain emotional words, but that doesn't allow it to assess whether they are crap or genius.

As for the site, Colm & I theorized different things. My belief is that the selection is based on one of two things:
Either it is totally random after the judge's score is measured,
or there is some algorithm set up based on factors such as number of visits, number of votes, rating, member's eye color . . .

^Or the number of hairs each person has on their head.

^ Hmm, Luce, explains why I lose every tie breaker

Laughing out loud now, Larry!

Years ago I actually watched the tie breaking closely, and it did go based off of nominations/votes/visits from what I could tell. Every Monday morning before the site updated the front page, I'd write down the poems, the number of nominations, number of visits, and overall vote (the 1-5 scale). Those that had more votes with a higher vote number (3 votes total for an overall 5 score would be out 6 votes total for a 4.7 score), from my informal research, would go up on the front page 75% of the time.