Would you mind sharing your career path with me?

Hi guys,

Another millenial here who has abandoned PnQ from time to time, yet it's always been my home to flee to when words overflow in my head. You don't hear much from me on the forums, but I do lurk around and find you guys highly intellectual (and entertaining :P). Hence, I'm curious about how you guys ended up where you are now and how you experienced the road to that destination.

I am in that quarterlife-crisis kinda moment where I just finished my Bachelor's Degree and I have no idea where to go. My country doesn't value a bachelor's degree that much if it isn't paired with a master's, but I'm stuck with my choices. Basically I just find far too many things interesting and I'm afraid to chain myself to one subject where I might be miserable for the rest of my life. I always hear these stories about how what you study doesn't necessarily dictate what you'll end up working as, but it doesn't give me peace since I feel like that's only for the awesomely talented and extraverted people with great networks.

----- EDIT: I didn't realise I was typing so much lol, so if you don't have much time just skip the following blabbering and tell me something about yourself :P -----

My bachelor's was in Industrial Design Engineering, which you can see as product design paired with basic knowledge of manufacturing/engineering and business. Its broadness was what made me choose this degree, because three years ago I was still this curious wacko who'd love to learn about everything there is in the world. However, since it's so broad, I didn't get to specialise much, so I don't know how to sell myself in the career market.

I'm not a typical designer who's awesome at drawing and prototyping, hence my portfolio isn't impressive. I'm more of an analytical type who loves to dig into new subjects and understand how things work, yet my degree didn't provide me indepth knowledge about anything. Yes I had business courses, but I'll never compare to those who actually studied business or marketing for three years. Yes I've also had engineering courses, but I will never compare to the mechanical engineers.

I'm wondering if it's better for me to switch to a master's degree outside of my own field, but it means that I'd have to do a bridging program for a year. I don't have any work experience (didn't do volunteering work, didn't join student societies, only worked in my parent's shop for 10 years...), so I'm nervous about spending an additional year in university since it means I'll add more years of no-experience.

Also, I want to emigrate to Australia and I'm wondering if people will even want me when I tell them I'm a "designer" from some unknown town in the Netherlands. (Whom of you have ever heard of the Delft University of Technology lol)

I appreciate any insights and value your guidance. ;)

I'm not sure how my particular career path would help you, since it is so far divergent from your own. However, I will say that regardless of your undergraduate major you should take stock of your strengths and desires and direct yourself accordingly.

Also, do not be so impatient that you avoid what you may truly want. When I entered a masters program in psychology (science) I had to level up because my undergrad degree was in arts. I got through it okay and it really has had no impact on my career. If you must take additional courses to enter a masters perhaps you can carry them while taking courses in your masters program also.

My advice would be to take the time to get the necessary degrees, especially when you're already in it this far. I agree with Larry and to take stock of your strengths, but also your passion. You can have all the necessary qualifications and degrees, but if you hate your career, it's for nothing.

I think adding another year with no experience is okay. There truly are employers out there who will hire with no experience in specific fields. May be hard to find, but sometimes you have to stumble your way into it. I am in social services now, but I started out by data entry in a medical billing office years ago. I had computer experience and I could type quickly, so it got me the job. From there I was promoted to medical billing where I learned a lot about Medicare and Medicaid, other insurance companies, as well as nursing home/assisted living facilities. When the economy tanked and they closed the doors, I then got into insurance - home/auto/life, and I hated sales with everything in my soul. I'm not a salesman and I didn't want to be. But it paid the bills and I did what I had to in the meantime.

Fast forward to the next job, in social services, where I am case managing seniors - the most time consuming part of my job is where I'm helping them with their insurance - auto/home/life, OR Medicare/Medicaid/other. Helping them connect to resources and getting into the proper care facility they need, and able to calm their fears about them. Had I not had the experience from the "other" jobs, I wouldn't have had the experience necessary for here. Sometimes it's really just getting into an entry level position and working your way up, finding you've gained experience from those "odds and ends" type positions you had before.

I never attended college - I planned to work at my Dad's work my whole life, but that didn't work out. I've been fortunate enough to not need a degree, but attend a trade school to get the licensing necessary, so I've been fortunate in that aspect.

Point is, take the time to do what you need to do. It seems pointless, but it's worthwhile. Find out what you're good at that aligns with your passion, and pursue that! :)

Exactly. My one advice is take your time and don't let pressure affect you! It's your life and you'll do better when you start competing against yourself rather than others.

As Louis C.K. said, "You'll be fine. You're 25. Feeling unsure and lost is part of your path. Don't avoid it. See what those feelings are showing you and use it. Take a breath. You'all be okay. Even if you don't feel okay all the time." That helped me a lot a couple of years ago.

And as my dad says, "you'll be fine so long as you just keep moving." Take a deep breath. My dad got his Ph.D. at 40 and he is the most impressive man I know. My aunt was a real estate agent, went to medical school at age 45, and is now at the top of her field in Colorado as an ER doc. Also, plenty of people/employers don't care what you majored in for your undergrad.

Is taking a year out from study an option for you? You know, travel...take on whatever employment there is? This could help in you finding yourself some more and, perhaps, helping you to decide which career path you want to follow. Both my kids took a year out, one in the middle of study and the other when he had just finished. Both are pretty grounded now.

Good idea, Hellon. I cannot overemphasize the impact taking a year off to travel had on me. It helped me exert wildness and recklessness that I felt I had suppressed my entire life. It was my great, big adventure. The most important year of my life so far by far. I learned about myself and the world, and I came back home more grounded and focused. I took this year off to travel before getting my Bachelor's, but it seems just as common to take a year off to travel after a Bachelor's. I've taken a couple years off again, this time to work, and am only now applying for my Masters.

You're still young to have never worked, so it's not a big deal. My boyfriend finished his Bachelor's and had never worked. His first job was at Domino's as a delivery driver, age 22, with a double degree in Music & Economics. You can work your way up the ladder pretty quickly. In 4 years, he went from delivery driver to house painter to customer service and office assistant to roofer to house remodeler. He hopes to be an electrician in the next year. He hasn't used his degrees, but just the fact he has them has helped. It says a lot to [some] employers.

I started working at 17, but take a look at how much I've zig-zagged: Assistant veterinarian at a horse racetrack, pizza chef, riding instructor, cattle herder, polo horse exercise rider, horse trainer, SPCA volunteer, server, court journalist, lift operator, rental home cleaner, and now freelance editor and assistant to a criminal psychologist. My B.A. was in Psychology and Sociology and now I'm applying for my Masters in Social Work. There is no clear path in my life to becoming a social worker.

It seems to me people rarely have a straight path to the career they wind up in for a lengthy time. I'd love to hear other people's work/school experiences and where they are now. This is fun.

After high school I took 6 months off, moved to a different state and started university mid-year. In the beginning I started with a Bachelor in Creative Industries. After a year I transfered home, ended up with a bachelor in Creative Arts majoring in Visual Arts and Graphic Design. I didn't know what I wanted to do with my life after completing my Bachelor, I knew I loved the arts but I was confused about the career path I wanted to follow. It's normal to feel overwhelmed and be unsure about what path you want to follow at such a young age. I applied for and completed a post-graduate degree in secondary education so that I had a degree with stronger career prospects. Handed by resume in to a few places, still unsure about if the path was right for me and now I work as a photography, visual arts and design teacher (12-18 year olds).

I love teaching, understand that this is a competitive field and now I'm arrive at work 7am, heading home at 6, and end up working at home until I go to bed (10pm). The amount of teachers who only work casual or temp in Australia is incredible, not enough permanent jobs for us all so we end up slaving to try and build our c.v. A lot end up going back to study to get a master in special education etc. The point I'm trying to make is don't be in a rush, take your time with uni. If you think it'll benefit you to continue studying do it now while you're still young. I'm still young and the thought of going back to uni makes me feel incredibly overwhelmed. I also wish I travelled the world before I started to focus on my career so intensely.

Things will eventually work themselves out for you Cyn, honestly the best advice I ever received was not to overthink future career prospects. I know many people will disagree and feel like it's important to focus on that but you can live a pretty miserable life by doing so.

Hi guys, first of all, sorry for this very very late reply. But I appreciate it that you all took some time for me.

@Larry:
Thank you Larry for your insights. Even though your career path differs a lot from mine, it still inspires me. I always thought you were a lawyer though. How come, even after levelling up to the psychology degree, you decided to do something else again? In a way I enjoy university life and the knowledge I gain through it, it's just sadenning that I can't really put loose courses on my cv..

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@Britt:
"You can have all the necessary qualifications and degrees, but if you hate your career, it's for nothing."
^ That's what really makes me afraid of picking something. My mind knows that I can't afford studying something with low job prospects, but I also don't want to do work that makes me feel miserable. But both not finding a job and doing something I dislike would make me feel miserable.

I'm still very much worried about my age. Currently I am taking a second gap year. By the time I finish my bridging program and my masters degree I'd have taken 8 years total to get both bachelors and masters. If I were a man I would mind less, but I still feel this pressure as a woman to finish fast and get to work fast before it's too late to start a family.

Your story is very inspiring, Britt. Sometimes I feel like my education has made me lazy or arrogant. Like I don't want to do something "below my level" since I spent so much of my time in higher education. But that's also because I am not naturally clever, I worked very hard to keep up with my education, so I'd feel sad if I didn't get to use it. Sometimes I wished I started out at a lower level just so I wouldn't feel so much pressure to get a very good job. Perhaps then I'd also learn to be more grateful and be more willing to work my way up, instead of expecting to get a high-level job instantly. There's a lot to do with my mentality, which I need to fix...

It's funny how in the end things seem to work out for people. Like how you ended up using a lot of your previous knowledge as a social worker right now. Perhaps that's fate, or did you feel you somehow steered yourself in this direction?

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@Jane:
This is actually my second gap year already (did one after high school as well) and I feel like I'm not getting anywhere. Travel is out of the question because of family circumstances.. Any tips on becoming more active and involved in the community?

You started working at the age of 17, I'm 22 now and I've only had two jobs so far (grocery shop employee and currently something in online marketing). My introversion and perfectionism is really holding me back. I don't go out and do stuff of which I feel like I don't have enough skills/knowledge... Even though I know that if I never try I will never get those skills/knowledge. How did you push yourself to try so many things out?

Also, do you think that, even though your boyfriend didn't end up using his degrees for his jobs, they still had some sort of value? Besides that simply having them helped? Right now I'm suddenly working as an online marketeer whilst it's not even engineering related, I feel like I am just wasting my time. I'm trying to be positive and dig hard into finding "transferable skills" such as that I learned to communicate better, but it feels like a lie.

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@Hellon:
As I told the others, this is my second gap year already. During my first I studied psychology for three months but couldn't handle all the reading I had to do, after that I just worked at a grocery store for 8 months or so... Right now I'm doing an internship in online marketing, and yet again I feel like it's been the wrong choice. I feel like I'm making wrong decisions all the time and I'm not sure if taking a break has really helped me so far...

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@Mel:
I've had a vague idea of what you were doing with your degree, but it's nice to read it in detail. Funny thing is that I always thought I loved art, but I also realised I'm not that dedicated. I could stop doing anything creative for months (whether it be drawing or writing), then one week I do it again, then the fire extinguishes for another few weeks again. Perhaps I've grown apathetic with my mental state.

I think our interests align a lot. I've thought about graphic design but find myself frustrated with my "artistic eye" so to say: I never knew what colours match together, which typefaces match, and what looks pretty or not. Now with my internship in online marketing I get to create some content such as images for facebook and mailings, and I realise I really hate doing creative content creation in a commercial setting. Too stressing, with deadlines and stuff. I never get to make something nice because of the limited time I have. What was your reason for not pursueing a career in a media firm or something?

I'm very much surprised by your description of the job prospects in teaching. Just some days ago I was researching the possibilities to immigrate to Australia. There is a particular kind of visa that is based on whether your profession is in demand in Australia or not. Pre-primary school teachers and secondary school teachers made it to the list too:
https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Work/Work/Skills-assessment-and-assessing-authorities/skilled-occupations-lists/SOL

Sadly nothing arts/design related. Is it that bad to be a designer in Australia? Even product design is not on the list, which saddens me because I'm practically a product designer with a half-assed engineering title stuck behind. It makes me want to go into true engineering since I want to immigrate to Australia, but my heart can't quite let go the cultural/human aspects of design.

I'm honestly in conflict. I feel like I need to rush and get work experience asap, but I also don't feel ready for the real world. University is such a safe place: all that matters is getting high grades. That's at least what I did all the time. I tried to push away my thoughts about future career prospects and only focussed on getting good grades. Ended up doing nothing on the side to explore my passions and what I wanted to do with my life... Now I'm just rushing into silly things for the sake of getting work experience, but I'm wondering if it's even a wise choice because the work I do doesn't match my degree.

Actually, I am a lawyer. I went for a Juvenile Forensic Psychology masters to improve my ability to represent children and their parents in Court. Being a Family attorney puts me into a lot of situations where I need the insights it has brought me.
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^ " but if you hate your career, it's for nothing."
"^ That's what really makes me afraid of picking something"

I think you are in the quandary that the vast majority of kids your age face. Some kids seem to know all their lives what they are going to be doing for the rest of their lives. Most do not: folks now have multiple careers throughout their lives. If you haven't already done so hook up with a testing service for an intensive aptitude and attitude test that will help focus you and what you do well that you will also enjoy.

From everything you tell us it seems you have a bent for both analysing situations, product development and marketing. That package is really good to have for a marketing career in consumer or manufacturing product research and development. In my prior career in sales & marketing I knew many of these people. They interfaced with clients to understand their needs and desires, then took this knowledge back to their engineering department to develop products to meet those needs. They traveled on the job frequently but had a steady base at the main office. They met new people often yet did not have to be extroverted or outgoing.

"What was your reason for not pursueing a career in a media firm or something?"

The main was was that I live in Wollongong and all the design jobs are in Sydney. I started working in a Creative Agency in Sydney and found it frustrating traveling 4 hours a day to work and back. I couldn't afford to move to Sydney, the prices for rent or to buy there are ridiculous. My partner had the same issue, he was travelling 4 hours every day, getting home at 7:30pm was exhausting. He actually quit his job in Sydney and started his own design business down here which is doing very well at the moment. It's definitely not bad to be a designer in Australia, my partner is making a steady income and I still freelance on the side of my career. It's just very very competitive and to be honest that was another reason I moved away from that field. My partner is constantly having to sell what he can do by going to meet and greets, running workshops etc and that just wasn't for me. When my partner first started his design career he had to intern and work for free for almost two years in order to earn "junior design" status. That's the sad thing, you're very used.

The thing with teaching is they always need casuals. The more teachers they have the better. However, while casuals are extremely important, we have so many teachers and not enough permanent jobs. It also depends on what area of study the teacher specialises in for High School. I know they're currently after more maths teachers. This article pretty much sums it up. Here's a couple of quotes from it if you can't be bothered reading:

"NSW has a growing education scrapheap, with 47,000 qualified teachers unable to secure a permanent job in the state's schools. The oversupply has been exacerbated by the lowest level of teacher resignations in decades, an Education Department report reveals. About 2200 new permanent teachers are appointed by the state each year but universities produce 7500 graduates for a job market that will never be able to accommodate them. Graduates and applicants from other sources are pushing the number of qualified teachers without a permanent classroom job towards 50,000 -- almost as many as the government's entire teaching workforce -- despite raised standards for entry into teaching degree courses."

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/almost-50000-qualified-teachers-unable-to-find-work-in-nsw-schools/news-story/2f6fa812b4f5cd1cfee59ee78c39cbde

My path has not been in a straight line by any means, but it's worked out very well thus far.

Left high school at 17 to study a bachelor of biomedical science (in Australia), wanting to become a doctor. Realised after I failed my major (biochemistry) that I wasn't book-smart enough to become a doctor nor a biochemist so I took up some electives in pathology subjects: histology being one of them. After I graduated I applied for 100+ jobs and only ended up securing a job in a histology laboratory because I knew someone who worked closely with a pathology company and notified me as soon as a vacancy came up. After finishing undergrad studies (at 20) I decided I loved lab work and wanted to work in research. Working for 3 years in a histology lab cemented that idea. The pathology job was repetitive and doesn't leave much room for creating and applying one's own ideas - every day you're following a preset protocol. But having a decent income was great, it allowed me to spend a month traveling Europe by myself, during which time I found out that education is free or nearly free in Germany, Belgium, France, Austria, and a few other countries. Even for international (non-EU) students like me! So I eventually left my pathology job in Australia to study a master in evolutionary systems biology (started this October, at age 23) at the University of Vienna. Biology is heading more toward mathematic, statistic, and computer science models so my master dabbles in all of those things while also having genetic, evolutionary and developmental applications which is really interesting.

The break from study really matured me and created a mindset where I'm now able to focus on my subjects and not just messing around and chatting with friends during lectures. And I think I've matured enough to be able to handle how challenging my mater is. I'd recommend taking a break to travel if you're unsure of what to do with your career, you'll meet so many interesting people and learn things you wouldn't even imagine - like I learned uni is free in some European countries! Now I'm able to travel and study, which is amazing.
Although traveling Europe was informative, traveling second or third world countries is really where you do the most growing. And it's cheaper, so if you're still feeling lost I could give you some links to volunteer programs available in SE Asia that are cheap, constructive and opened my mind up to the problems we face all over the world.

Also there are so many opportunities for science students in Vienna, I have an internship in an institute of ethology (animal behaviour) where we're testing protein/pheromones in male mice urine and coupling it to female preference and male song. Mice sing! We just can't hear it because it's in the ultrasonic range. How cool is that? And I've also been offered a position doing histology work on the historical (150 year old) animal specimens that the University of Vienna has (which are older than Commonwealth Australia)- history and science coming together! I don't think any of this would be possible in Australia, so I'm happy I left for a country that has much more funding for scientific projects. And everyone here shares ideas and faculty members - all the main uni's work together with the private institutes, which is really lovely. Knowledge should be shared freely. In Australia I noticed people protect their ideas more because getting funding is so hard and competitive. So if you want a good career in science, stay in Europe ;) Australia's too expensive for international students to study in so I wouldn't recommend doing that unless you can get a scholarship.

Best advice I would give 20 year old me would be: spend time alone to work out what really inspires you, travel, be open to new ideas, speak to as many strangers as possible to get an idea of their life path (which I guess you're doing by asking us what our career path is).

All the best! and if you have more questions feel free to ask.

That's about as impressive and proactive as I have ever seen, ether.

I never steered myself in the direction of social work. If you told me 10, heck even 5, years ago that I'd be doing social work, I would have laughed in your face. I never had a calling, never had an area that I wanted to pursue.

Thank you Larry.. I try my best :)

I agree. Way to go Ether.