Quick Question for you guys (basically let's fight/debate)

If you guys could change the voting system, how would you guys do it?

Keep the numeric system + make it so the voter is identified,

or go the facebook route of like/love + a 'needs work' button,

or something else?

I think we should go for a like/love/pending (or needs work) and have the latter vote mandate a comment.

Reason being is 1-5 is completely subjective, doesn't really say much when a poem's rated 5 or a 1, my 5 could be your 1.

I like the facebook route, but feel that any love/like/hate should be identifiable. Also, there should be room for in-depth comments.

No like/love/symbols/vomiticons.

Comment. Always comment.

In a writing site, can we please try to write? Try to articulate the why and the how? Capture the sentiment, the effect on the soul? Or just write three interesting words together?

If we need to have votes, a comment must be submitted with the vote. So, I guess, no anonymous voting.

I'm not on facebook so that wouldn't work form me..

Keep the numeric system + make it so the voter is identified,

^^^

Yip...I'd definitely go for that...

I didn't mean facebook was required, just instead of having 1-5, three buttons appear "like, love, needs work".

^ in that case, it's just sort of pushing everyone to vote a 5 even if they might think the poem was a '3'.

edit: should mention comments would stay, just wondering how you guys would want the rating system to work.

Well...like I said...I've never been on face book so I guess my previous comment mirrors that.

I often wonder why some poems that reach the front page are down voted and some are left alone. It happens most weeks so there is some sort of pattern to it but, I don't know what it is. I think it would help if everyone who voted had to leave a comment albeit a small one.

All votes should require a comment therefore no one would be anonymous with their vote. I don't vote on PnQ, haven't in a long time. Personally I don't see the point of the voting system, however I understand many members still use it.

So far, the consensus seems to be mandatory comments if you vote. I like that idea. I just vote a 5 whenever I comment, has nothing to do with the poem or what I think of it. I usually detail what I thought of the poem, and what I think might need a bit of tweaking in my comment.

Why do you vote a 5 whenever you comment if it's nothing to do with the poem or what you think of it? That doesn't really make sense to me??

I just get slightly irritated by seeing the 1-5, even though I commented, it leaves me feeling incomplete. So I just vote it a 5 to make it go away. I know that doesn't make any sense in the slightest, but yeah.

But...you can just ignore it and leave the poem after you comment...

Lol it still bothers me, after the fact.

I'd prefer to keep the 1-5 voting system, but make comments required for ALL votes (or in the very least make them required for 1 votes and 5 votes). I'm a big fan of removing anonymity. The "Like"/"Love"/"Needs work" buttons don't appeal to me for several reasons, though I'm sure I'd get used to them. There's no point hiding it: I use them like crazy on Facebook. I like that awhile ago Janis added the ability to Like and share poems to Facebook from PnQ. Adding a PnQ Like button here seems a bit redundant.

Also, maybe someone can explain to me how Like/Love buttons would make rating more objective? Or is that not the point? Oh would it just be to see which poems are "trending?"

Personally for me and we have spoken about it in the Collabs group... I would love to keep the 1-5 vote but think comments should be necessary to stop the down voters running wild even if its a 3 word comment on why but I doubt that would cut it.

They don't actually work though (the facebook like + tweet buttons)

And not necessarily more objective, but it's less subjective then the rating system.

love = really enjoyed the poem

like = enjoyed the poem

versus

my 1-5

1 - why would you even post this
2 - you tried <3
3 - call me drake, cuz im jus saying you can do better
4 - neato
5 - very nice (in borat voice

someone else's 1-5

1 - good job m8
2 - excellent job m8
3 - dis poem is outta dis world
4 - next shakespeare right here
5 - this poem alone qualifies you to be the next poet laureate

Well you get the point, the like/love/need works button offer insight to what the reader thought & how they reacted to the poem, while 1-5 does that to a certain degree, it also implies there's an 'internal marking scheme' that everyone has, and the author is not privy to it.

You know, I'm sure there's a psychological basis to voting scales that would make people more comfortable with voting less than a 5/5. If the scale was 1-10, for instance, and all votes required comments, maybe we'd see more 8's and 9's? I don't know. I can't imagine PnQ without a voting system, but I guess that's just me being a sentimental old fart. Also, what would happen to my glorious 777 votes? You didn't think about that, did you!? Selfish.

It'll be forever immortalized: http://i.imgur.com/jFEkIE8.png

I could see that working, but that would be so many buttons though.

LOL true! Didn't think about all the buttons. But if they're stretched horizontally, it could work.

I took a screenshot of my profile with the 777 votes hehe. I am a dork.

So Mark...you've already said that you leave a 5 vote when you leave a comment regardless so..

5 - very nice (in borat voice

^^

is that what you've really meant? I don't think you've even commented on any of my poems and now I/m so glad for that.

Lol frame it!

that's not actually my thought process for votes, i was just trying to make a funny, it's literally just a 5, unless I misclick. Whenever I do comment, I do my best to analyze it and give it my full thoughts, but every now and then I leave a short comment. I don't comment that often since I always want to leave a meaningful comment but frequently get stuck trying to articulate myself.

The internet sucks...I just had a vision of a random mod in a borat outfit leaving me a comment/vote it was not terribly nice although...I'm sure you would look pretty awesome...yeah! does that get me off the hook!!

I have said before that you have a great sense of humour that you keep hidden for the most part :)

Jane..frame it for sure...

Maybe I will frame it. Haha, don't tempt me.

Very interested to hear more members' opinions on the voting system. You can throw a totally new idea into the pot or weigh in on one of the current suggestions. Your voice matters!

In my opinion, it would be nice to know who voted for a poem.

I don't see the need to make it a requirement to comment. Sometimes, even if there are no comments, it feels nice to know someone took the time to read the poem even if the poem was given a 1. The views in the poems don't tell me if the poem was read, but somehow, the voting makes me believe so. (At least, that's how I feel).

Literally, often I just feel like reading poems. I give all the poems a 5 (if anyone wonders why? I vote 5 purely if they made me feel something, and I found that all the poems do that). On rare occasion, a 3 or 4 due to an error. Voting from phone can caused that but I let the author know that I made a mistake.

Edit: I feel that if the comments are required if anyone votes, then more people might abstain from voting.

Having more symbols as feedback for a poem only encourages readers to opt for clicking a button rather than expressing themselves. It shouldn't be a popularity contest. This place is for WORDS, BABY. Writing. Analysis. Wit. Feedback. Learning. Growing.

On Facebook, I never remember who liked my posts, but I do remember their words. With the 'like etc' buttons, comments have gone way down. People take the path of last resistance, acknowledge you with a convenient click and move on.

The fact that many people vote 5s without thinking highlights why I dislike the voting system. It is pretty redundant and terribly flawed.

If it has to stay and people vote a 5, can there be a query box asking "please comment on the absolute perfection of this poem".
4 "please comment on the near perfection of this poem"
3 "please comment on the average quality of this poem"
2 "please comment on the piss poor effort on this poem"
1 "please collect your belongings and get the hell outta this site, you nasty little shit"

I believe the vast majority of members take insult at anything less than a 5. I've even read profiles where the member states "if you're going to vote anything other than a 5, please don't bother"

The 1-4 votes currently do not have meaning for this site save for rare exceptions. Even these exceptions are not well received, as I've had PMs from members complaining that so-&-so is downvoting my poems.

In fact, as Hellon points out, front page poems are frequently downvoted. Thus the 1-4 buttons have become weaponized.

IMHO votes should require comments, whether numerical or like/love/pending or anything else.

On the other hand, I feel the only way a "pending" or "needs work" selection would work is if that vote could be changed in the event the suggestions were acted upon.

Once upon a time I kicked up a stink because somebody kept giving me a 1. At the time somebody remarked that I would stop looking at the scores eventually. They were correct.

If we were truly honest with ourselves then we would all be 3's. The odd 4 for a really good poem and a 5 reserved for those work of genius, the poems we wish we had written ourselves.

The trouble is a 4 is seen as a personal attack, imagine handing out 3's

So what do you think should be the solution darren? keep the 1-5 system + ask everyone to be more honest? 'use like/love/needs work buttons instead? something else?

Keep 1-5 but label them, if you click on 5 maybe it should ask if you are sure this is good as Shakespeare's work....

Ps, did I just see the real Janis Krumis logged in?

^I saw him too Darren.

The domain/URL expires in February 2017, there's options to renew it for 1 year, 2, year, 3 years. He's probably just back to renew it. ;_;

To clarify my position, I think no vote of any kind (1-5 or like/etc) should become active until a comment has been made.

Umm, Abby's explanations of 1-5 win the day, for real guys hahahaha! I especially like 1.

I think I'm agreeing with most everyone when if I had it my way, you have to comment in order to vote. At the VERY least, let the voting not be anonymous. Watch the downvoting disappear.

That being said, if I legitimately vote a poem a 2 or a 3 because it needs a lot of work, that'll bound to upset people. But a needs work button is just that, needs work.

To clarify mine as well, voters should be identify.

I'm semi debating with myself whether comments should be require. I'm opt for giving anyone the freedom to vote without forcing to comment, but thinking about it...

I think that if voters are identify there would be less people casting 1's and 2's. The upside part is that if anyone does cast a lower vote, the author might end up pming the voter for an explanation.

I also think that by making it a requirement to comment whenever anyone cast a vote, less people would vote. Uhmm, Correct me if I am mistaken, the votes is what showcases the most read in the front page, right?

I forgot to add, no vote unless you comment.

Yes, the top rated section works by looking at the subset of poems in a defined time period (i'm thinking one week), and putting the poems with the most votes in that subset.

atleast, I'm pretty sure that's how it works.

I'll be honest, I don't always feel like commenting. I read some poems from time to time and I just vote. There are various reason for not commenting (current mood, time, etc)

If in order to vote one is required to comment, I might comment initially when the implementation is done, eventually, I might just read the poems and that would be it.

I fear that that might happen to other people.

So assuming comments are required to vote, what do you think are the pros and cons?

Pros:

- no random downvoting
- you get actual feedback

cons:
- everyone might just shy away from voting lower than a 5?
- like you said, it might press people not to vote or leave something like 'nice'

Are you sure people would get actual feedback?

Let's say I really like a poem, I don't feel like commenting,but I like the poem and want it to have a 4 or 5, I can just type a comment like ... "I'm speechless." "No words" and cast my vote.

Would anyone consider that actual feedback?

It's a step better than just receiving a numeric vote, i suppose.