Death Penalty?

^Couldn't have said it better myself Trackster45. Although i am not a HUGE believer of God, all of that is what i agree with.

Very nice topic, Ismail.

Now allow me to fetch my baseball bat as there will most likely be some arguements going on in this post and i want to be the unreasonable loony with a weapon.....lol just joking about that :P

Peace.....

Executions are only an effective deterrant if done in public.

Just as a counter point, Bob, The world's population has increased by 2.3 BILLION people since my birth in October of 1976. No doubt the murder rate has increased, but in relation to the number of people on the planet it hasn't risen 300%. Only the number of murders are taken into account, not the number of murders in realtion to number of people caple of doing it.

Is there a way to work out the number of murders per capita for each of the last... I dont know, say fifty years to use as comparison?

(http://www.ibiblio.org/lunarbin/worldpop)

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_mur_cap

An interesting look at murder per capita (1000)

I agree with Bob, people don't think of the consiquences or they probably wouldn't do it. would you go and kill someone knowing that you were going to go and sit on a chair of death? criminals are focusing on other things at the time mainly concintating on thier targets, in my opinion. I am against the Death Penalty, but i know there is a lot of people in this world for it. And if we follow the eye for an eye aren't we showing that it's ok to get revenge even if it means death? wouldn't it spark more violance becasue someone is trying to get payback? We're telling little kids that violence is bad but all we do is surround them with it, on video games, movies, real life, tv shows, which kids will take example of, therefor it will most likely make them more likely to be violent because that's all they have seen. well i think i have branched out way to far with this one, if i make any sence at all. i think i'll stop now!

~PLP~ lil slam~

i think it all depends on the situation. i dont think simple murder should deserve the death pentaly. but take a rapist or a serial killer or a child-molester or anyone who seriously damaged a persons quality of life coldy...ie.torture, rape, or any sort of majour disfigourment. they deserve to die. but someone who simply kills, yes its horrible, yes some people say its worse than rape or child molestation but in my opinion its NOT. those people they killed may not have deserved it, may have been a great person, they may have left an entire family in shambles but if you rape someone it does something to that persons mind you can never fix. and it harms family and friends. im a friend of a person who was raped, i was there for her six hours after the bastard drugged and raped her. it killed me inside to see my best friend clinging to me, screaming when her boyfriend tried to comfort her, begging me to tell her it was all a lie. i also have a neice who was 8 years old when a 12 year old boy raped her at gunpoint. to this day ill never know what it did to her inside.....im not sure what im getting at but i think that the death penalty is just and injust in so many ways. its too hard of a question to answer...it all depends on the situation...
~*Freak*~

What damages someone's life more coldly than 'simple' murder?

I would extend execution to rape, paedophilia and (class A) drug dealing.

Also I would execute all the accountants that launder drug money. That would cripple Colombia and the cocaine trade in about five minutes flat.

I'm also up for public crucifixion of all of these executable crimes. A long harsh cold painful death in the public view would be an amazing deterrant.

do you have no compassion? "Also I would execute all the accountants that launder drug money.That would cripple Colombia and the cocaine trade in about five minutes flat" why not just kill everyone that has ever commited a crime? that would cripple the crime rate o.O you're ideas are a bit harsh I say. the world is becoming a more compassionate world, and i for one applaud it. but it's people like you *no offence* that are making us colder.

as for "What damages someone's life more coldly than 'simple' murder" the victim is at least released from his/her pain. we put down animals if they are sick, we assist suicide if a person is in dier pain....in my opinion these victims of murder may have been robbed of a wonderful life, but victims of rape and paedophilia are left in this world to suffer with whatever the trauma has done to their mind.
As for drug dealing IM NOT EVEN GONNA TOUCH ON THAT its too big of a subject for me to broach. o.O but for the record im against drugs in any form besides medical w/e stuff...
~*Freak*~

hey i personally know someone that was involved with drug dealing, they were in jail for a while but they actually have changed and he did give it up for his family, yes they still have major struggles and a lot more to come but he has given up the drugs. He is a father to three very young kids and they don't have a lot of money to survive on but they manage! now if you say that they should kill every drug dealer then there would be three kids without a father, A young woman who has to raise and pay for everything those three kids need! you may want to be like well the dealer deserved it but his family shouldn't have to pay like that, they live in a tough neighborhood, it would be more pain and a stuggle for his family then for him because he would be dead! but because they didn't kill him for dealing drugs he at least can return home to a family that needs his help and hopefully he stays changed, it's been about a year and he hasn't gone to it. i am against drug dealing and drug usage but i stand strongly against you for saying that dealers should get the death penalty.

~PLP~ lil slam~

If the law was changed to incorporate the death penalty for drug dealers then you'd see the drug trade drop sharply. How many people do drug dealers kill on a monthly basis? Let's be ultra conservative and say a heroin dealer's product kills only one person every six months. That's still TEN people he's killed in five short years. If that doesn't deserve the death penalty I don't know what does.

I have no compassion you say... Well, when it comes to people who get rich from the addiction, torment and death of others I'm inclined to agree. I have no compassion whatsoever for people like that.

So, Slam, ask your 'friend' how many people OD'ed and how many of those died from his product then tell me how you justify his actions.

I cannot disagree with you if you put it that way...
~*Freak*~

Bret:

I have to agree. Stop the fucking dealers. There isn't one town in Britain that's not affected by drugs and dealers - I guess we can say this for the rest of the world, also. So, yeah, let's set-up some real 'extermination camps' and rid the world of the drug barrons/dealers. Clean sheet, start again.

I see a Hitler in the making lol
~*Freak*~

Not Hitler. Just ridding the world of real scum. Not race/colour this time, but dealers in death and misery.

That's why I suggest hitting the accountants. If the money cannot be cleaned; the drug barons are fucked.

It's the stereotypically middle class white accountants that make the drug trade possible in the first place.

I'm ranting and I know it, but it's still true (and fun to say).

Thanks for the feed back.

ya but Bret people CHOSE to buy the drugs! it's not completely the drug dealers fault for killing them, it's thier own also! i know people dying because they chose to do the drugs, and it's their fault because they are the ones buying it, it's thier choices and yes they are the ones dying because of this. you make a good point but people have to take responsibilities for their decisions too. they can't just say blame my drug dealer he's the one that provides it, because it was a choice at the beginning on whether they will buy it or not! rapers though on the other hand the victums don't wear a "RAPE ME" sign, it's not the vitums choice. people don't ask to be murdered, children don't ask to be touched! But people on drugs Do chose to do drugs. now as i said i don't like drugs, and don't think that it should go on. But you can't blame the one person, you would have to go to the people that buy the drugs too.

~PLP~ lil slam~

Slam, I'll point out that most dealers get people hooked with freebies and then move them onto the harder stuff. That's where the money is after all. As soon as someone is addicted it's a free ride to the bank until that customer overdoses.

Drug dealers are the lowest form of human life. They are leeches.

but people STILL take the freebies and samples, it's still thier choice! they don't have to take it, they don't have to try it but yet they still do!

~PLP~ lil slam~

A welcome to Johnathon from me as well. Have fun...And if you want to make a habit of debating in the forums be ware there are some feirce debators with feirce opinions. ^_^
~*Freak*~

Ismail, Natalie##, and Bret Higgens. And by feirce opinions I do not mean this is a bad way at all I just mean they love to debate and argue. It's quite entertaining at times. They have very feirce and INTELLIGENT opinions..It's hard to argue with them.
~*Freak*~

Woooo let's get this discussion going again, anyone got any thoughts? hmmm hmmm? if you don't think murder deserves the death penalty but you do think some cases deserve it than what are those cases????hmmmm...can you tell im bored?
~*Freak*~

lately i have been doing research on Columbine, for a poem in the making. I kind of knew a lot on it but yet again it was so long ago and i was young so i found this web site about it and read up on it. I did remember that both of them commited suicide after the school shooting. Perhaps they prefered death over sitting in jail for the rest of their lives. There was no way they were going to avoid jail after the video footage of them in the lunch room and the guns. Jail is not some place you want to spend the rest of your life, it's a horrible way to spend it! if someone did something that was absolutly horrible shouldn't they have to live horrible, is it a great way to make them regret thier actions of wrong doing? I think it is a whole lot better then just killing them, because once they are dead they don't have to think about it, they can escape punishment in a way, even though you can be waiting for the chair for years, it sure as hell beats sitting in a cell until you die. If i make sence at all, then you see why we shouldn't have it, yes people fear death but it's unavoidable! lets try and get this conversation going i'm intrested to see what other people have to say, it's clear Bret and I can't agree, but others may agree.

~PLP~ lil slam~

That would be great you know, if we could just keep everyone like that in jail...but the fact is we can't there isnt enough space. thats why a while back they just let all the people go practically they kept the really bad ones let the rest go. so...either...kill the very bad..or let go of a whole bunch...its a tough choice but id rather get rid of the really bad....i can imagine someone being in there for so long they figure out how to escape and such i dunno just my thoughts
~*Freak*~

lol i forgot about space, umm we can have a jail in outer space so if they do escape they die any ways because they'll keep ships locked up into another area that the prisoners have never seen or been able to figrure out where they have been. so if they do excape they'll be in open space and will die, because there is no oxygen to breath! do you think that might help? it's expensive but it should work.

~PLP~ lil slam~ far out dude!

woooo that would work....once we figure out how to make a place on a planet haha
~*Freak*~

now we should speed up the progress with exploring space huh? we need to call someone about this idea thats boiling! these prisoners need their space! you can so tell i'm tired, this is a crazy idea!

~PLP~ lil slam~

tired shmired its BRILLIANT....BRILLIANT!!! hahah we could put the really bad ones on shooting stars...omg haha can you imagine...a little kid looking up at the sky and one flys by and mommy says "make a wish baby and maybe, if we're lucky daddy doesn't end up on one of those" hahaha or kids like "mommy whats that?" "its a flying jail" "cool i wanna go on one!" "well...maybe when you're older" XD
~*Freak*~

it does not bring back the victim, you are correct, but it saves other victims. people who have killed and all that can easily say "ive repented" and after a while get out of jail on good behaviour and do it again. im not saying everyone lies about their apologies but can you imagine what the victims family must go through to know that that person is out there again? and what if he DOES repeat. you cannot just keep him/her locked up forever, there is a problem with space. and there are crime done that are just unspeakable so do you really want to risk them getting out?
~*Freak*~

You, my dear, should not be talking about judging people. And I was not judging them I am just merely pertaining caution. Increasing space...I wonder...what are you talking about? Are we actually getting space on mars that I'm not aware of? Or are you talking about the releasment of prisoners? Which is ridiculous because they will just end up back in there, at least most of them, im not saying all.
~*Freak*~

heh
~*Freak*~

Well thats all nice that they are building new jails but people are born faster than the jails are built hunni. eventually we will run out of room. and they have already had an incident like that and set people free because of it. I personally wouldnt want to risk them letting certain people free
~*Freak*~

SHES FREE? omg thats horrible...see thats what I mean...argh
~*Freak*~

omg thats freekin scary...i live in canada...man now imma have nightmares lol
~*Freak*~

well i guess thats not close to me...ish...i live in ontario...you?
~*Freak*~

I agree, people who wreck other people's lives like that.......they don't deserve a second chance. they claimed the sin and they should die for it....

man i sound like a bitchy person right now....

you sound like a concerned intelligent person. not bitchy...dude..i love my new cell XD
~*Freak*~

LOL your flippy red one! Did ya play with it in the wee hours of morning? LOL!!!

I still think that the death penalty is an escape of thier actions, maybe we should just put mats all over the floor of the cells and have like 10 guys stay in one cell. i have seen how small those cells are but just tell them "well people are doing just as bad as crimes as you. maybe if you guys thought about your actions you wouldn't have to sleep back to back." maybe that would make some guys think twice about thier actions, the little room they get and the discomfort it will make them really hate thier actions. and as they try to fall sleep they can think about what they had done and then ask them if it was worth it.

~PLP~ lil slam~

I look at economics. would you spend thousands of dollars a month per inmate for 50-80 years on security or fifty cents on a bullet?

Add up all the money we spend on caging animals and think how much we could spend on people worth saving by improving healthcare and housing and employing the homeless.

"homelessness is usually a symptom of a more fundamental problem that rough sleepers have. Many are either mentally ill, physically ill, heavy drinkers or drug users." ok so you are against drugs but drugs are a part of life that makes people homeless and you want to find them jobs, which they will probably use that money to buy more drugs. "

"*38% have an alcohol need
* 64% have a drugs need"

that was a 2003 research done. it's probably climbed now in the past two years. even if they didn't have the drug or alcohol need before being homeless it grew on them. So ya lets employ them so they can buy more drugs. I do feel sorry for the ones out there like the children, or the people that just had a run of bad luck, don't get me wrong. just you are you are for just killing drug dealers but you are for giving drug users money. i've seen drug users get plenty of chances to make thier life better! but they use it for drugs, they blow the chance, believe me if you just kill drug dealers people WILL still find a way to get them, it's too important to them to just give it up. it will probably cause more violence on the streets because the drugs may be rare and too many people are out there that want it, someone hooked on it will kill for it, which will cause another problem. i wish drug dealing and usage was over without a problem but to me it looks impossible.

~PLP~ lil slam~