Intelligent Discussion: Racism

I think that in many cases, racism didn't have to seep back it, it was brewing there for a while. There are plenty of people who view racism as wrong and the recent events in Egypt and England aren't going to change that. The people who are going to be the most racist about these events are the ones who were racist all along, in my opinion.

Racism has been here, it never left. It just isn't discussed in the media.

Nope. Racism has never died. It's always been around, just like discrimination. They are both just being brought out...they've never faded into history.

I believe people allow themselves to generalize one whole race just because of disasters such as these. It's really ridiculous.

Peaces.

As long as the media and minorities make race an issue racism will always be prevalent.

Racism never went away, so how can it come "seeping back?"

I agree... it was never gone.

Who exactly are the 'racists', Ismail? Think!

wait I'm confused Mel, what are you saying?

I'm asking people to think. Racism is/has become inverted. I aint saying anymore or getting drawn further into this than need be. I nearly ended up blowing a fuse last time I posted on this subject!

I'm with Mel. In 100% agreement.

Historical example: Affirmative action.

I do agree with Mel and Bret, but first and foremost racism has always existed and will probably continue to exist (to a certain extent) until the day that all humans are the same color.

That's not an excuse for the mentality, or acting upon it in negative ways, but it is something to be taken into consideration.

As long as we separate and preserve different cultures, we'll separate and make the gap bigger between the colors/ races. That's not to say that history and past isn’t important, but if looking forward what we want to see is a unified society, we cannot put so much emphasis on the mistakes of the past and cultures that are eventually to die anyway. Progressivism is the only thing that will change our mentalities, and considering how long the world is going to be in existence, eventually all the races and cultures will blend and adapt to one another as we gain more cohesiveness as a SPECIES, rather than a set of races.

Because human beings are so pre occupied with the "human" elements of life, rather than the basic primal ones (lets face it, we no longer NEED to focus on those [directly, as our necessities are the same, but how we go about getting them is different] when we have Hostess and Kraft in the cupboard, but we have to work 8 hours a day for minimum wage to keep them there), we don’t carry a unified mentality anymore. Largely, it is "us" vs. "the world" from the moment you learn life isn’t fair. Even those that love you will turn on you if the price is right (in most cases). As we grow up, we learn more and more that we are in it for ourselves, and as nice as it is to say that your family and friends will always be there, with the divorce rates so high, mortality rates so high, and all the pressures of society that can come between relations, we fall back on the fact that you come into life alone and you die alone.

We have families, counties, states, cultures, religions, schools, races, governments, unions, and allies to separate us as people. We are all taught and influences by the "things" we are (for example: black, female, Christian, Texan, Cheerleader, American, Democrat, etc.) and encouraged to keep company with our own, however, each person is so many individual things that it is neigh impossible to stay true to everyone, again, you end up alone in a corner, you against everyone else with conflicting beliefs.

The seperationalist mentality is truly the seed of racism, and because race is the most blatant thing that separates us all and one of the only things that is represented on your skin versus your mind (very convenient for snap judgments), it will be a problem until humanity unites and stops fighting each other over petty shit.

Racisim is blown out of proportion to a huge extent, we all position ourselves against groups. The Christians vs. everyone else, the East coast vs. the West coast, the winners vs. the losers, basically, the allies vs. the enemies. It comes down to different vs. different, and which different is "better." We all separate ourselves from each other, when someone does something that you dont like you may think "well, she's a damn Christian" or "they're lower class, and therefore ignorant," we judge each other based on differences all the time, again, it's only because race is so BLATANT that we blame IT for our problems.

I can't beat this into peoples heads enough: It's general separation that's the issue, not racism.

Just look at the the situation with Iraq and America, American's are edgy about Middle Easterners, and a large percentage of the world hates Americans, just like the French are the most "disliked" of people in Europe because of their xenophobic and elitist mentalities. Both those groups are caucasion, and Europe is largely caucasion in general. You can see how the separation moves from race, to culture, to country, and imagine how it moves down the line.

Religion is another huge one... but I wont get into it.

In life, everyone who protects you holds something over your head, and ultimately you fear them, for instance, your government is supposed to take care of you, but governments cannot please everyone, as they represent such large masses of people, and if you don’t pay them they will punish you. You are conditioned to understand this from when you are a child, and your parents, the ones who love and nurture you, spank you when you do something wrong. This is why I personally believe that there is a subconscious mentality of: "love, protection, and security are only temporary, you always have to be on guard and be prepared to put up a fight, even those that take care of you are against you," which further implicates what a struggle we have against separationalism.

I could write a book about this I have so much to say, I wont get into most of it because I'll spare you the tedious detailings of society and culture that I believe do such damage to our individual psyches, but basically, I don’t expect racism to go away until the world is ruled by one government, obviously we aren’t evolved enough as a species to accept things different than ourselves; but then again, external conditioning is the seed of this ugly weed (this is a poetry site, correct ;).

Disclaimer: “Separationalism” may or may not be a word, but it should be ;)

Anything to add to your topic, Ismail?

Racism has been part of this world, it isnt seeping back in, its always been there. And no doubt its going to get worse.

Bob you sent that to me in an email one time and it was even better reading it the second time. I WANT THE WHOLE DAMN BOOK MR. BOB!! ;)

Racism has never left just other things in the media have replaced it with things about who j lo has married next or the Michael Jackson case. Racism happens all the time, just you may notice it around times like the London bombings or the 9-11 attacks because when those hit the headlines we notice who did it and in some people it strikes a fear and you notice it more because it's about a world event. Naturally people don't like death and so once you see that these hateful crimes are being done you remember the group that did it, but it's only a handful of people that did the crime, not the whole race of people so when people write off another race as being bad it's horrible.

Skin is still a BIG problem of racism here in my opinion. Foreigners attacked the U.S. and people in the U.S. just place in their mind that “those are the people that killed us” some people won’t even give foreigners a chance, definitely if they are from the Middle East. I’ve seen people look at a middle eastern and turn and walk the other direction out of the room so they won’t have to be in the same room, it’s disgusting! In the south of the U.S. people still hold problems with African Americans; stores will serve whites before blacks, even if the African American was in line first. “All men are created equal” Thomas Jefferson wrote that while he had over 300 slaves of his own, so are all men created equal? Well when he wrote that all White Rich men were created equal. Women Rights, we had to fight for them and still we see problems with that and a man is hired over a woman when she was more qualified. I read once that the average working man is paid more than the average-working women. These are just a few things that came to mind while reading this post. Most of them were discussed in History this year about our government and what they said and what they really meant. I wish our world wasn’t so screwed up in ways but it just is, and possibly will always be.

~PLP~ lil slam~

Agreed with the above, racism never did leave however some types of racism do not make people so up in arms, Where I went to primary school racism was incredibly serious because of slavery issues etc, it was acceptable for anyone black to make a racist comment to anyone of any other colour but if there was any kind of response it meant expulsion etc.. though a response would not have been appropriate it seems that because of the past it is more tolerated where I live for racism to be directed at, in general, white people.. The problem with this is that rather than making the past errors disapear it gives people more fuel for hatred thus creating more racists..

Now terms like "trying to be black" for example, what is trying to be black? You define who you are what music you like how you talk and act by how you grew up, what you like and what sort of person you are NOT what colour of skin you were born with, how can one try to be black? People have a freedom of choice.. People act how they wish to and defining a race by certain aspects is in itself racism towards your own race..

Then the white british who wish to kick asylum seekers and anyone who isnt white and british out, the other people wherever they are from are part of britain as well, britain and america and many other countries are made up of so many different countries going back in history there are so many different races, religions who have contributed to parts of society in countries today..

The treatment of people from the middle east or those of the muslim religion is disgraceful, the automatic assumptions are being made more and more now... The fact that some "muslims" attacked london and new york does not mean all people from the religion are suicial maniacs, the perpetrators of these crimes are not true to their religion and are not real muslims, they do not follow the rules and the teachings of islam..

Racism was never gone, until EVERYONE learns to accept each other, black people accepting white people, white people accepting black people, muslims accepting non muslims, non muslims accepting muslims, everyone accepting everyone and judging not on religion or colour of skin or accent but on the persons personality and actions, we will continue in a vicious circle until everyone accepts everyone.. and with everything going on this looks unlikely

chow for now

beautifully put katie! i simple agree! definately with the middle eastern part, i was trying to get to that point but just couldn't find the words, which you have found. i don't think i made myself as clear as you had.

~PLP~ lil slam~

Thank you jacklyn, I thought you made some wonderful points in yours as well

Ismail:

' I have never encountered racism in my life, everyone [I] met treated me with the same respect......''

then you say:

'people hate me without even knowing me'

How can you know of this supposed hatered of you if you've never enountered racism?

You've lost me on this on, Ismail.

"How can you know of this supposed hatered of you if you've never enountered racism?"

I'm just stepping in here and don't quite know what's going on, but my little tid bit is that this supposed "hatred" doesn't always result from racism. Teens do it the most oft I think, "Oh my god, look at how that girl walks, I hate her." (yes, that is an actual quote.) People find reasons to hate one way or another, racism is just one of many.

Racism has always been in the world. It will never go away. I hate to be a pessimist but believeing in world peace now a days is just ignorant! The world has come to a violent and hateful place. Its sad to see racism in the world, but its never going to change no matter what everyone says or thinks.

I love everyone and i myself am not racist. Feel free to talk to me, i hear im a good listener. ~Drew

"Prejudices...are the most difficult to eradicate from the heart whose soil has never been loosened or fertilized by education; they grow there, firm as weeds among stones."

Ismail:

You travel around the world with your words, when in reality you only need to nip to the shop next door.

lover i agree world peace isn't happening anytime soon if ever. now days some poeple can't even get peaceful homes, peace with thier family. just the other i saw a young teenage girl talking on the phone with her mother and she was crying and angry because her mother kicked her out of the house, because she was late one night. now i know there must be more to the story of why and there must be more reasons, just each new generation seems to be growing up with less faith and more anger.

~PLP~ lil slam~

You disagree then?

If you really think you have to look as far afield as the US for examples I'd say that you're the one in need of a slap, mate.

The National Front has plenty to use by way of example, not to mention the scores of bloody idiots who are so ignorant they don't even know what the NF is.

So why, if the NF is a perfectly good example, do you berate Mel for his equally cogent wisdom?

Ismail..maybe i'm overstepping my PC mod status...but you are one of the most illogical people on this site...you just don't compute...you don't make sense....you sound like you almost do...but after a moments consideration it's like debating with a wisp of smoke...there's nothing to anything you say..it's all vague....based completely on the other persons logic...and well...just crap basically.

You are a coward who uses pissy technicalities and nit picking of the other persons post to pretend you have any idea what you're talking about...and it bugs that shit out of me.

Night sweetie.

Bret and Kevin:

The beer tokens are in the post.

Ismail:

Listen to what kevin's said! Most of the time your arguments are very frustrating. You dangle a carrot, someone bites, and then you try to verbally punish them for biting - trouble is you don't do it that well. subsequently, the thread and argument turns into that 'wisp of smoke' that Kevin's talking about. Grrrrrr.

Defenetly. People are becoming more "hostile" against people from the middle east, more and more jokes about them are being made etc.

I find it very very idiotic, since no body thinks about the innocent people dying in Iraq and Afgahnistan (spelling?).

Of course, the difference is that the innocent people dying in the middle east are "mistakes", but killing and innocent person and calling it a mistake shouldn't be accepted.

I can very well understand the suicide bombings, even though I don't think it's right.

Bleh bla bla now I gotta go home from work so can't say more for now.

In your eyes, Ismail, and mine too, yes they are foolish and selfish. But thats how we were brought up. They were brought up to beleive that the world today is evil, and that they must do something drastic to change it. Who's to say whats evil and whats not? for all we know, killing someone can be a GOOD thing. It's all about mentality and your idea of common sense. Whats common sense to you may be a foreign language to others.

really?

I honestly thought you were gonna go off on me. Cuz I'm ready to defend myself lol.

Renee and Ismail:

Here we go.

These people (suicide bombers) have been indoctrinated into thinking that to blow themselves to pieces (and others with them) will change policies. Some of these people are too young to have even considered the 'big picture', as it were. Their attacks are racist! And planned by extreme racists.

Renee, you scoff that:

'these people are brought up to think that the world is evil and they must do something drastic to change it'

Well whoopdedoo. what a pisser hey, the world's evil is it? maybe they should patent that notion!

These people consider themselves British born and bred. They have have the same rights (sometimes a lot more rights) as the rest of us. They go to the same schools, watch the same shite on TV and shop in the same stores - but they prefer to import and implement theire sense of justice on us, the innocent. Is this the way they were 'brought up', then?

This is what the people of Britain does against supposedly 'evil' governments in troubled times. You want to talk about alienation, degradation and violation? well it happens on our doorstep. Example: the 1984 miners srtrike in Britain crippled a whole industry - it's effects on the people who worked these mines and thier families has never been fully researched. Many withdrew and sank into depression, alcohol and drug abuse. Many are still on the breadline and related deaths prevail every single fucking day of the week and have done for 20 years.

What did they do? What do they do? They protested. They took their arses and their intelligence onto the streets and made a united stand - for twelve months!!! You see, in this country we have a right to do that. It's a democracy. However, the miners lost and the government, led by the bastard excuse for a woman, Margeret Thatcher, destabalized the whole country.

What the miners didn't do was plant bombs by remote control in an effort to kill innocents and whip up panic in an effort to get their point across.
These 'British' minorities had a raw deal in this 'evil' world but made choices that did not effect others around them. Their gripe was with the government. Unlike, one feels, our other 'British' brothers.

Well Mel, maybe it's NOT about getting justice. Maybe they don't blow themselves up to change policies. I have done my research.

I'm glad those Miners had the sensibility and education enough to protest instead of something more drastic. That shows how much they have learned from their society and others actions. And since when were suicide bombers claiming to be british? I think I missed something there.

The suicide bombers I'M talking about, live in or near the Gaza Strip. They are highly uneducated. They are vulnerable and willing to do anything for their freedom, wether it be during this life or after life.

Although their governments beleifs discourage suicide or homicide, these people are not brought up by the government. They are brought up by parents, parents who, from what I've researched, are proud of their childrens convictions.

They have been brainwashed. and how? well, i would think its easy when you dont have much of a brain. low education on the world around them can lead them to beleive anything they hear. They are brought to beleive that they are sent on missions by god. They beleive that by killing themselves and other innocent lives they are making their own gateway to heaven. They clearly aren't thinking with the same set of morals as us. thats obvious.

But, the point I was trying to get across, was that different people tend to think differently. Not everyone has the same values. For example, look at the USA's Air Force Core Values.

Integrity First -- To us, its honesty and doing whats right even when noones looking. That can be picking up trash, not cussing, blabity blah blah. But, it can mean the same to suicide bombers. Except doing whats right to them can mean hurting others for themselves and their families well being.

Service Before Self -- To us, thats doing for others before we benefit. like community service for example. To suicide bombers, that can mean blowing up themselves and innocent lives to show their family some twisted (atleast in our minds, twisted) point.

Excellence In All We Do -- were always striving for perfection. To make this world a better place for us and our children. You don't think the suicide bombers have that in mind? They could be bombing for the sake of their future society. To make it so that they don't have to deal with the people they had to deal with.

So, do you get my point here? They are thinking a different way, for all we know, their doing whats really right. We don't know that. In our minds, doing whats right means staying alive and keeping others alive and healthy. Hell, dying could possibly be our only escape. But we dont know that. So we stand by our own beleifs, constantly fighting what we see is evil. Their doing the same thing. It's a never ending cycle, and life would be boring without it.

Renee:

Our 'suicide bombers' were British muslims.

Your beliefs/attitude frightens me to the core. It's too 'goody goody' and it's too politically correct but for all the wrong reasons. You're sympathizing with terrorists!? Why don't you pop a couple of Euros into the cap the next time they, or any other 'terror' group does the rounds in your local bar looking for funding.

Go have a word with some of the surviving victims of terrorism and talk to me then.

I'm not sympathizing. I'm sorry that you can't handle both sides of the tape. I'm simply keeping an open mind. Trust me, I wouldn't support suicide bombing or anything like that in a million years. I thought this was a discussion that you put your opinions up on, and my opinion seems to be that you aren't looking at the situation through all eyes. I don't sympathize with the suicide bombers. I do feel for victims of them. I'm not that cold. I was simply writing to make a point to you and to show you that sometimes we aren't always right. I'm sure if I knew someone who was a surviving victim of this I would have personal views that are very strong. actually, I do have personal views, but thats not what I'm using right now. If I were to argue based on my beleifs, I would downright piss on suicide bombers. but I decided to take it to another level. mmkay?

You say you have 'personal views' on this topic. Air them! I'm not interested in someone elses rhetoric. I was talking to you.

This isn't someone else rhetoric...though its not my beleifs it is my opinion that i need to point out the side that you aren't thinking about.

as for my personal views on what they are doing...yea, its wrong in my eyes. They shouldn't put someone and their family through so much greif just to get to their own happiness. It's selfish and wrong. And its getting the world nowhere. I could blow myself up too, and take the many people i dislike with me, but what would that do? It would just make me another headline on the papers.

You should meet up with Ismail and marry him.

In retrospect, and looking at your profile, that would be quite funny.

LMAO! haha your a funny one