Communism could still rock out

Was just at a pretty cool dinner party and the main topic of conversation was politics and psychology.

My buddy Holger is from East Germany and he remembers how happy most people were when the communist movement kicked off, for about 20 odd years everyone really felt they were doing the right thing, and they had all the basic things they needed...they were happy.

But then when the Berlin wall fell they were exposed to the fruits of Capitalism in the form of stupid things like banana's from abroad , and suddenly communism starting looking crap, destroyed by the lure of Capitalism.

We got to talking about what would have to happen for capitalism to fall as a social means of production. Someone said that it will happen soon as the worlds resources are depleted and the wheels of production begin to slow as we run out of the base ingredients.

My argument against this is that Capitalism will then become the power behind the restoration of balance...which will come at some point, it is unavoidable..the damage we have done to the planet will be addressed quite soon by the capitalist world...and they will react by becoming environmentally friendly in a capitalist way....solar power and wind power will be used in exactly the same manner economically as oil is now...the world will change...birth rates will be controlled, as will things like how many flights a person will be able to take every year....but we will pay for that in the same way we do now. Taxes will allow our planet to recover...or at the very least sustain itself through governmental control. But the leviathan of capitalism will never die unless it is killed. The people in power are there because they know about every threat to them and then they research exactly what they have to do about it and when. So, though i'd like things to change economically and environmentally...i'm not that panicked about the state of the world...because i know, like Big brother will never let anything take away it's control...not even the power of nature.

Thoughts my friends...tell me think what you of this?

This is a nice topic.

People who have experienced capitalistic lifestyles would never be satisfied with one that was communist.

People that don’t know any better, or any "different," whichever you deem more appropriate, such as the Germans pre-bananas (from abroad), are happy with a system that allows for necessities to be met, but not much else.

The whole reason that a capitalist society works is because it offers motivation to function in it. It has rewards for being involved in the great "rat race," whereas a communist society does not.

In a communist society, there is no benefit to anyone. The workload is shared, and things are more balanced, but there is no greatness or extravagance involved. Opportunities and dreams can't even be shattered, because they never can exist.

The world is becoming more industrialized, more Western, more "progressive;" IE: more capitalist. The "American dream" is now a worldwide vision (even though I would say the Roman's held a good grasp of the ideal before America was even in existence), everyone wants the biggest piece of the pie they can get.

There is no way that "we" would be willing to be communist to save the environment or the economy, simply because no one will be the first to start moving in that direction and leave their piece of the pie for someone else to devour, because unless EVERYONE on the planet does it, there will always be people willing to capitalize.

Kevin is right; we will have to find new ways to capitalize. It will evolve, just as the industrial revolution evolved into a more environmentally friendly system. Forever, we will evolve as technology grants us, but we will not regress into lifestyles that only cover our basic necessities when it is human nature to yearn for ALL we can get, which is where psychology meets economy.

The reason that there will be evolution of capitalism, versus a shift into communism, is because at large people are not comfortable with change. No one would shift a global economic system like that, and no one would be happy.

We will not totally exhaust our world’s resources because there are too many people paying close attention to the threat. We will be forced to evolve before we would do it by our own volition, but we will have to adapt to what the environment permits us to do with the resources that she grants us.

This is the age old debate about how to make communism work. It's easy for me to say that personally i'd quite happily take a cut in wages if it meant a better deal for society, but only if everyone else was doing it otherwise i'd be getting exploited.

This thing i'm always harping on about Kaitlin is that communism has never really been tried properly because as you say it would have to be a global effort . CApitalism rocks as a means of production, nothing can beat it. If only there were some way of maintaining it as ONLY a means of production whilst using some kind of communistic ideology to distribute the wealth it creates.

As to there being no incentive for people to try harder under a communistic life, well, if things moved suddenly from capitalism to that, then yes i can it not working. If the education of the masses was improved however...you'd think that surely almost everyone would want things to be more equal...would want world poverty to be wiped out and the lines closed in together?

Anyone who spends 8 years training to be a doctor for the money shouldn't be a doctor...and the same goes for just about every profession...you'd do it under communism because you showed skill in that area and because you wanted to.

I don't have all the answers...but i tell you, the worlds oil reserves are rapidly depleting...and when they reach a critical mass...massive changes are going to come about...huge political changes that will directly effect everything in our lives.

Maybe something cool will happen then.

Or maybe we'll have to pay for sunlight and wind...and our own little backgarden nuclear reactor. Scary biscuits.

I know there are issues with Communism, but i feel that if the masses could be educated and convinced that for the good of humanity, we might not be able to own 3 TV's and buy more food than we need reasonably, then most of them would be prepared to take the hit on that for the benifit of people who can't afford to eat properly and have never even watched TV [the lucky ones]

It is hard for us as children of Capitalism to let go of the right we feel to have as much as we want as long as we earn it by the book and play the game. But we must realize that we are in effect taking from others who are exploited by the mechanisms of Capitalism whilst also messing up the environmental status of the planet as we stuff ourselves full of junk food and watch Telivisions that are worth the same as the cost of building a small village in a 3rd world country.

It's just not right and you all know it, and I know even as i am part of the problem. But yeah, I understand how easy it is to knock down communism....doesn't mean it wouldn't work globally.

I'm kind of confused what Communism is... anyone wanna explain?

I would just like to point out capitalist are not the only opposition to communism
In 1917, Portugal was verging on totalitarianism after the revolution of 1910. The revolution had decreed a sharp separation of Church and state, Church property had been confiscated, and religious congregations had been ordered dissolved. The intelligentsia and ruling classes were anti-religious and decisively anti-clerical. The ruling cognoscenti were contemptous of traditional religious beliefs often describing these beliefs as mere superstitions in the newspapers and journals they ran. Even rural areas normally immune to the intellectual fads of the cosmopolitan centers were affected by church closings and a cautious wariness about any outward expression of religious belief. Despite this, strong religious faith still took root in the simple peasants of the rural countryside. In this environment, a series of apparitions by the Blessed Virgin occurred to three small children from the rural village of Fatima over a six month period starting in May of 1917.
What were the contents of the third prophecy? First, physical chastisement for the nations, involving catastrophes, man-made or natural, on land, on water, and in the atmosphere. Second, a spiritual chastisement—especially for Roman Catholics—that would consist of the disappearance of religious belief. Third, the chastisements could be averted if (1) the “Third Secret” was published by the residing Pope in 1960 (John XXIII) for the whole world to see and read, and (2) that the then Pope, with all the Bishops, should consecrate Russia to Mary. “Russia, according to the text of the ‘Third Secret,’ was the regulator of the timetable.”6

If these instructions were not followed, then Communism would continue to spread its error throughout the world and millions would die. The “true faith,” presumably the Roman Catholic faith, would diminish to a shadow of what it used to be. The “Third Secret,” the third Fatima prophecy, “was formulated as an ultimatum, an ‘either-or’ proposition.”7 If the directives were carried out, then Russia would be converted to religious belief, and a period of great peace and prosperity would follow

With all due respect Micheal. It takes only a basic understanding of society through sociological study to comprehend that Religion, in particular all forms of Christianity are now so totally linked up with the superstructure of the Capitalist ideology that anything the Pope or any Church leader says concerning the Religious take on Political situations is highly suspect to say the least.

So there just happened to be a secret document in the Vatican that shed a new and powerful light on the threat of Communist Russia. Don't you all think that is a little bit too convinient? Given that the Church is hand in hand with the Governments of the west that were threatened by Russia.

I am not a conspiracy theorist, but i don't like the Church having any take on Politics, particularly when it effects a whole countries way of life.

From the history that I have studied the abuse of power by the authority of the church is the main reason the writers of the U.S constitution did not want to give any political power to any church. I have always been fascinated by the story of Fatima. It seems from the story that; those gathered to observe the miracle were discouraged by the church, as well as the political authorities. I have also read that no one in 1917 was expecting Russia to become a major world power. If you will allow me to quote Bob Dylan From his 60'S song 'With God on Our Side'

'I've learned to hate the Russians
All through my whole life
If another war comes
It's them we must fight
To hate them and fear them
To run and to hide
And accept it all bravely
With God on my side.

But now we got weapons
Of the chemical dust
If fire them we're forced to
Then fire them we must
One push of the button
And a shot the world wide
And you never ask questions
When God's on your side.

In a many dark hour
I've been thinkin' about this
That Jesus Christ
Was betrayed by a kiss
But I can't think for you
You'll have to decide
Whether Judas Iscariot
Had God on his side.

So now as I'm leavin'
I'm weary as Hell
The confusion I'm feelin'
Ain't no tongue can tell
The words fill my head
And fall to the floor
If God's on our side
He'll stop the next war'

Kevin I think you would agree with bob that we do not need weapons of mass destruction to educate the people on any ideology

Micheal, I'm going to hold back here and say that i do not want to discuss this matter any further with you. I don't like the way you think at all, nor the things you suggest under the guise of the words of another.

If anyone else would like to seriously talk about this without involving the lyrics of folk singers and religious books, i'm right here.

Shoot.

I had something to say.

I'll come back.

No don't shoot! I will leave this discusion peacefully.... I respect the power of the mods even if they do not recognize freedom of speech. Far be it from me to interfere with anyones propaganda, by quoting popular people to reflect the way they view an ideology. There is a place where truth is important you may be right here, but you are wrong there

http://www.poems-and-quotes.com/funny/poems.php?id=535812

Micheal, stop being ridiculous. My saying to you that i do not wish to discuss this matter anymore with you has nothing to do with my being a mod, i didn't use my mod powers to add weight to what i said, and i didn't ask you to leave the thread.

All i said was i didn't want to discuss it with you, just you and only you. You are free to say whatever you like, just not to me if you ever want a reply., so calm down and quit the amatuer dramatics.

Also, there is a rule on this site about posting poems, or links to poems in discussion threads. You have broken it several times, and many more times made blunt references to your work. I've warned you about this before yet you ignore me.

Stop it, or i will get all Mod on you.

Ps, the poem in question was very good.....structurally.