Soldiers

I am horrified and disgusted at the behaviour of the soldiers in Iraq.

Torturing and brutalizing poor helpless so-called prisioners in Iraq. Making them do lewd things to satisfy their sadistic pleasures.

Now here is my question:

Is torture and abuse to the weak one of our primal basic instinct?

Yes or No and please elaborate.

Is torture and abuse to the weak one of our primal basic instinct?

Yes.

Why? You answered it yourself. It's a primal instinct to abuse those we come to hate.

Example: You join the army to learn a trade (not to serve your country; right or wrong) and all of a sudden you're sent to a place against your will, parted from your family to aid a cause you have no wish to be involved in. You're going to see a few people in the same boat that take it out on the locals. It feels natural to join in.

And to clarify your statement it is not all soldiers that torture, but an immensely VAST minority. http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/may2004/tort-m08.shtml

33 cases reported. I am not so close minded to think there are not countless cases that go unreported, I am sure they do. But that is no reason to blame the Army as a whole for the actions of the few.

Also, who are any of us to say that it is only soldiers, goverment and those in charge who are doing the torturing?

Muslims, Chinese, Hindus, Comedians, Jews, athiests, Darth Vaders, Christians, serial killers blah blah frickin blah... EVERYONE has tortured something at some time in their life. Jesus tortured countless bored Roman guards, forcing them to listen to heretical speeches about a single autonomous god... just for examples sake. Torture of siblings is another great example. It IS a way of life. A way of teaching each other that if you do one thing, you'll pay for it with this that or the other.

Torture is a point of view.

Face it, breathing is proof of guilt.

Is torture and abuse to the weak one of our primal basic instinct?

I think so too...

All I'll say as a retired soldier is this:

Love me or hate me, you still need me and people like me... and most likely always will.

As long as there are people torturing, beheading, kidnapping and generally not being very nice you'll be shielded by the armed service that your country provides.

Also I'll stress again the fact that those torturing others in Iraq at this time are in the VAST minority.. less than one in a thousand. I guarantee it. Don't be so quick to tar all soldiers with the same brush just because you don't fully understand the sacrifices they make and the positions they are put in.

Feel free to berate soldiers all you like after you've spent three years or more as one.

I heard that mate. It's a hard path to choose, requiring extreme dedication and self discipline. However I don't see as many people blasting away at firemen, policemen or ambulance crews, who, if you didn't already know, have a huge amount of people who learned about life and service to others in (drum roll please) the armed services.

I see and hear a lot of folks, especially younger idealistic teens, sniping ('scuse the pun) at armed forces but rarely (and by rarely I mean two cases since 1997) ever from those who actually joined one or benefitted from their presence.

Brett, you must have read a different Gospel and watched a different movie than I did. It has always been my understanding that Roman citizens were rarely forced to do anything by the Jews.

"NPR had an attack The Passion bit this morning, too. The idiot on that show purports that the Romans are presented as kind/loving while the Jews are presented as mean/evil. I think the speaker’s own bias was showing through here. How can you say the Romans were nice to Jesus in the film when 15-20 minutes of it is Roman gaurds beating the bejesus out of Jesus, all the while taunting and cursing him? There were, also, plenty of scenes where the Jews were sympathetic to Jesus’s plight"

^^^ Okay, but that just leads you to the question of why they are cutting off their heads in the first place. It is because they don't WANT them there. Many of the insurgents have sat and watched their homes be destroyed, their women raped, their family members killed, and all in the name of 'helping'. So who exactly should be after the revenge here?

I personally think that the insurgents are completely wrong for capturing innocent people and beheading them, (I saw one of the beheadings on the internet and I seriously got sick and couldn't sleep for days). It's totally barbaric. But at the same time, I think the soldiers there who are supposed to be 'helping' are equally wrong for their oppressions, if not more wrong.

I mean, think of it this way. Let's say America was taken over today in the same way Iraq is by a more powerful country (I know that could never happen, but just hypothetically speaking), and your family members were being abused, mistreated, killed, etc. What would you do? Would you just stand back and let it happen? Obediently, allow this country to change your country as they see fit? Or would you try your hardest to do something about it?

Michael, it was just an off the cuff remark because I was remeinded of 'Life of Brian' where the Roman soldiers had to stand guard under the preachers to protect them whether they liked it or not. I guess in a way you could argue that it was the Centurions torturing the ranks by making them listen to it.

Swings and roundaboutrs either way. No harm meant.

On the Geneva convention I'll just say that we went over the laws and regulations of engagement and prisoner transfer and treatment twice a year.

It was a very important part of military life and EVERYONE in my battery upheld this law in Northern Ireland, Kosovo and, believe it or not, still uphold it in Iraq today.

Again I'll stress the need to look at the whole picture before judging the efforts of everyone by the deeds of the vast minority.