poetry and paragons

I like JHarrison's idea of a paragon as an abstracted concept, but I'd have to disagree and say that they can be reflected in the real world, even if they don't exist wholly for themselves. I don't know if perfection exists in this world except as an idea... and I don't know that poetry always aims for perfection. But, I think, even if we can't point to what a paragon is, we have an intuitive idea. Often, poetry tries to reach for the "paragon" of an idea, object, or concept. You could think of a paragon in this way as a sort of archetype - not existing in the world, but the standard by which we are able to judge its weak reflections.

Yeah Perfection is something that lacks a defenition I think... The only perfect thing is probobably compleat emptieness...

If you ask me.. Perfection is something both above religion and the human mind... it can never be explained or visioned... it is nothing =P

And you Aira have a beautiful way of writing =)

"Does the perfection of physical grandeur come from spiritual world?
Is paragon of beauty, something that you could name Godly?
what is the relation of poetry and paragons, aesthetic and arts?"

I believe the artist and poet look at the world very differently from most. As you speak of the sliced cucumber, snow flake, and tiny flowers. all paragons of beauty missed by many. Simple things can capture and hold the imagination of an artist and burst forth as beautiful verses or compositions, paintings or sculptures. I would name all things as such , Godly. And no matter the religion, as you stated, basically all the same deep down, as we are all brothers. And in the eyes of God all things created are paragons of beauty from the oceans, mountains, animals, and humanity, looking even closer to the smaller scale, to the pores, cells, protons, electrons etc. and the grander scale of Heaven and the spirits that inhabit us all ...many layers of paragons of beauty,many levels of those harmonies.

"But yes the reflection of the paragon or God or even beauty in the mind of individuals could stretch, and shape so differently, depend to how clear their mirror is, and that you my friend call personal inclination!"

Mankind in God's image and with His infinite wisdom have created many works of art aesthetically pleasing to the eye. It's that perception of all, that shapes what you have called "personal inclination", what I like to refer to as "perception is reality".

I agree with ddavid when he says:
"concepts are all abstract entities. They don't live by themselves unless obviously in human mind."

I'm sorry, but those just look like a bunch of ... thingies. Not snowflakes.

Thank you dddddaviddddd : ) (see, your name is close to perfect, by Arash's standards) I do know what a concept is, but thanks for describing it again. I'm also moderately familiar with the theory of Forms. I think your post ends up agreeing with mine....

To reiterate: I'm not sure if perfection exists entirely in the physical world, but often poetry is working towards that "concept"... the perfection of beautiful language.

Haha.. lol that does not prove me wrong since if u magnify that thing u made 1000000000 times u will surley find errors in it.... There is NOTHING that is perfect...
I cannot believe you used characters to draw perfection for me... lol =D

A circle is the closest thing anyone has come to perfection and yet there has never been a perfect circle so please people do understand that there is no way you can draw anything perfect whith or whithout your computer..

Ok fine lets say that I have the knowlage of a child ...
Let me ask you good sir... do you know why it is impossible to make a perfect circle? (since this is basic knowlage of a child I am sure you will know it)
Do you even know what a circle is?

yes please do answer thease questions without any commenting... just answer them... and I will explain to you why there is no perfection

Yes a circle is a group of dots(the smallest messure and geometric object within math) along a circular line and each dot has exacly the same distance form the center of the circle... Im not very good at english but this is close enough...

I am 17 years old =) to the person above.. And for your other question.. no Im not kidding.. thank you for your attention...

Now the DOT in math is a two dimensional object and therefore it cannot exist in reality just as a circle can ONLY exist as a view on a cylinder or half sphear..
The dot however must have a form... a geometrick form and if we say that it is round you can never make a perfectly smooth circle... what ever form it takes a smooth circle is impossible since THERE IS NO PERFECT FORM...
IN reality it is the same, for something to be perfect it must be constructed from something perfect ...
Ask yourselves this... what form does the smallest particle have?... is there a smallest particle?
There are only 2 things that one can believe.. Either everything is perfect or NOTHING is perfect... there are no exceptions...

I personaly believe that nothing is perfect.. However I cant force you to believe as I do and therefore I will not discuss this further

Well yes that would be a more detailed defenition but it makes no differnce to what I said...
And if were going to be so detailed then it is not exacly 3.14 =D

Dont focus too much on the circle defenition and on my bad english... I can define it much better in my own language =D

I read them and thats off topic.... now tell me why Im wrong in what I stated?

I will summerize this then.. To me its PHYICALY impossible but the abstract has no limits so it might be possible in our feelings an such... But then again you can never make an abstract physical so..
The question was about opinion and I stated mine...
I do not have to agree with what other people write and I DID read all of the posts before posting myself...

And as for your theories of me being stupid... you are just trying to insult people... it is sad that one cannot discuss something whith you as one should be able..

but what ever makes you sleep better man =)

Abby, your circle is lovely : )
dddaviddd, thanks for your post, buddy. I don't know if it came across, but I was kind of crabby yesterday - thanks for keeping it easy.

aaaand... this thread is quickly turning imperfect. I like your name though, Perfection. It's appropriate. But are you implying that radioactive materials are poerfect? Just wondering. : )

Story time.

Last year, a friend of mine gave me a rose - deep, rich, wonderful red, not yet open to its fullest point. It wasn't a romantic gift, just one that he ahd literally found, and he thought I'd enjoy it. I was astounded by its beauty - every detail, wonderful - an archetypal red, captured in lovely curves of petals. I kept it in my room, and it slowly opened up into it's final, glorious form. It took my breath away, when I walked into the room. Perfect. That night, being my clumsy self, I tapped the vase, and in a moment there was an explosion of petals, spread over my room like an escaped sunset. Perfection cannot last very long.

I did no such thing

Urm.......

I may not understand fully what you are asking, however if it is as I think it is, then this is what i have to say.

Beauty is the heart, (not meaning the physical) full of emotions that bare a weight far greater then physcially possible. To be able to look upon the earth in all its glory and dicay, you see the perfection of God's works. You write the words that sing in your heart and it is perfection. as God designed they way our "HEARTS" work. How we feel, and how we see the world through the only vessel in our body that can't see anything but the hidden knowledge that God has placed there.