Mature argument, pros and cons thread

The disgraceful amount of "Manic Depression 'Sufferers'" on this site and their ever growing annoyance to society on a whole.
*Mock and sarcasm intended*

Let's all argue with maturity about this :)

Everyone's entitled to acknowledge their feelings as a human being. There are some that just elaborate more than others, and we get annoyed.

(Hm...the profanity restriction was easy to follow for this particular post.)

//Ari\\

Entitled to acknowledge, yes, but these people are PREACHERS of their supposed past, present and future depressive state.

Do not get me wrong, i strongly support openness when it comes to expressing a problem and getting it off your chest, but there is a line -as with everything- and this site is in abundance with these line-crossing attention seekers.

Their lives cannot be that terrible if they are able to boot up a computer, get on the internet, write a rant on the forums about their woes, submit a poem and then go into the chat room to have a bit more of a complain.

Exactly! People elaborate about how bad their life is, but it's not that bad if they have access to the world wide web to complain about it...

People in certain parts of Africa would literally blow somebody's head off in war to just LOOK at a computer or type on a keyboard.

I've supposedly "flamed" on many of these threads because, frankly, the same old topics sever my last nerve.

Everyone has problems, there's no denying that. It's just the people who choose to complain about them and not do anything to change it for themselves that annoy me.

And i am aware of this line. There's a difference between clinically depressed people and twinkies who come on here saying "Omg, my boyfriend just broke up with me and my daddy took away my allowance and someone needs to help me decide if i should cut or not".

Depression is a phase. You become aware of it in your teenie years. It'll be over. Stick it through until you're done with your education and you'll see how much better you've become throughout that portion of your life.

//Ari\\

"It's just the people who choose to complain about them and not do anything to change it for themselves that annoy me."

ie: The entire sadness and depression forum.

Which is the forum that i often get responses like "It's the depression forum, why don't you stay out of it if you don't like to read this 'pathetic crap'?"

It's because i've got opinions and i've also got a keyboard. Horrifying, isn't it, you twinkies?

//Ari\\

When i use to go in there i would receive the same comments. And like you, i had -still have- opinions, and a keyboard... but i eventually got sick of explaining sense to the ignorant :P.

"It pains me deeply to see the adverse effects of how parents, schools, communities, governments, etc. have all but abandoned kids these days"

These kids are not abandoned. Schools have councilors and psychology (in Australia at least) is one of the top 5 most entered occupations. There is an abundance of resources out there for those who are WILLING to seek them, the fact of the matter is, people do not look for the professional help but what their friends or randoms off the internet can provide.

Our world is continually growing to respect the need of mental health in people of all ages. Stress is a factor contributing to the depression of many teens and young/old adults. How is this being attempted to be rectified? Compulsory sport in schools and the work place. This is just one example of how depression is attempted to be minimalised. Another is promoting and encouraging people to visit psychologists, councilors and psychiatrists instead of bottling up problems.

The internet is a source of information, not a place where 'troubled' kids can collaborate and in doing so 'worsen' their symptoms by gaining new methods of inflicting pain (i have seen countless threads asking for 'alternative' actions... responses being just another form of self-mutilation, etc.) or having some blunt bugger some along and tell them what he/she thinks -announcing their ignorance, idiocy, etc.-

I can see the reasoning behind having a Sadness and Depression forum, but, it has done nothing but promote sadness and depression to fester on this site. These Manics need to grow up and get on with life, because at the moment they have no life; they are merely shells wallowing in self-pity that annoys rather than receives sympathy.

Because those groups attain the greatest amount of attention? Some sympathetic, some negatively aggressive attention. Attention all the same.

But the above is of course my *opinion*.

Your comment about the 50's and 60's, well, psychologists these days CANNOT prescribe such drugs, only a psychiatrist can. Furthermore, those days are long gone and we, society, have grown to understand mistakes of the past. Such an action of readily giving out drugs like lollies is taken more seirously these days - talking is a more preffered method than substances.

Obviously the Australian system is VASTLY better than the American.

Speaking of systems and organizations. Will Rogers once said "I do not belong to any organized political party. I am a democrat"

I agree that systems must be held accountable. Political systems. Educational systems, medical systems and some may look to organized religion as a solution, but where pray tell can you find a religion that is organized. Be mindful that I am not pointing my finger at anyone, but it seems to me that members of society have been playing the blame game since the story of Adam and Eve. My point is that the problem is not organized systems but disorganized systems

In my lifetime I have observed many victims of depression. I do not believe any of them are depressed because they want to be. I recall that on this site I was reading a dark depressed poem written by a young lady who had posted over 200 poems. I praised the poem for its honesty but could not resist a simple question at the end of the comment. The question was; Do you think there is something missing in your life? She emailed me saying that she believed there was and it was happiness. I responded to that email with as much faith, hope and love that I could share. She answered back that she used to have a lot of faith but had lost it due to all of the bad things that had happened to her in her life.
For a short period I noticed her poems were filled with hope. Then I was shocked to see another suicide poem. She had wrote a tragic poem of betrayal before that. Yes Sluvious I agree that the weak are at the end of the mudslide of societies impurities. I don’t believe you think that self harm is the answer

Positivity is the key to happiness. Kids on this site, and many like it, do not focus on the good but rather the bad. These kids want to stay the way they are or get worse. They are not trying to get over the troubles life throws; there will always been at least ONE person worse off than you - these kids think the world revolves around their petty excuses for depression and unhappiness.

Why are the happy people in this world that way, happy? They look at life on a full spectrum with them not in the center. Dwelling on past woes is respectable for learning, not for killing your soul.

Depression is now a cliche amongst many and it disgusts me. There are seriously ill people (SERIOUSLY mentally ill/retarded people) who deserve our attention and view to be focused on; not these kiddies dissecting themselves for a kick and a worried friend or family member.

Get over yourselves, Kids, Attention Seekers, Idiots.

The above is the biggest load of BULLSHIT (full stop.) i have ever heard.

If the child is not at the top of the class they are considered to be mentally troubled?

L.o.l.
You idiot donaldrminikus. You idiot.

I believe that most of the youth are trying to overcome the obstacles that life throws them. I also believe they have a share in the responsibility for there own happiness. We are societal creatures and depend on systems for our mental physical and spiritual health.
I believe clinical depression is recognized as a disease by most of the authorized medical community. Positive attitudes are essential for the control of this disorder., but the high teen suicide rate suggest that many teens are not getting the help they need

I think a lot of these kids are depressed or whatever because a lot of parents have forgotten what it means to be parents. I mean what all is involved in raising kids. It takes A LOT of your time..you have to be willing to give this..it takes A LOT OF LOVE..you have to show this EVERY DAY! How many of these parents hug their kids or tell them they love them ( like they really mean it) on a daily basis? Kids need these things...They need rules..they need parents to be parents..not friends. Your kids are not your "buddies" They are your kids. They have plenty of friends..but only 1 mother & 1 father. That is not to say you can't have a good relationship with your kids. (How many parents even have that now days?) Parents have to be involved in their child's life..know where they are at..know what they are doing..know who they are with...I am not saying be overbearing..but be parents.
Ok, well I didn't intend to go on about that so much..lol
On the other hand...there are also some kids that are just spoiled brats who think life is terrible if they couldn't get their nails done this week...or mommy & daddy didn't buy them the $150 shoes they wanted, they had to settle for a $100 pair.
What I am trying to say is, there is a happy medium ...don't spoil them rotton & don't just totally ignore them. They need attention (and lots of it) but they also need to know they need to work for things they want in life...not have everything handed to them.
I don't believe medication is the answer for about 99% of these kids...most of them just need good parenting.
My opinion :)

EDIT: One thing I forgot...I say the heck with what teachers think about your child needing medication..you know your child better than ANYONE else (or at least you should) What do YOU think they need?

agreed!

You go Sunny :)

donaldrminikus: There are idiots in this world. That is a fact. Some people just are not up to scratch compared to others and it would be unfair to teach those with a weaker intellect at the same level and intensity as someone who is considered much higher or elite. The same goes with teaching an exceptionally smart child at a learners pace – someone up above indicated that children need to be kept stimulated and challenged, this means people of the same level are taught as one and at a degree that forces them to think yet still be able to overcome the obstacle.

Michael D Nalley: Children are not alone in overcoming obstacles, as it is a trait of the human race; young, old, smart, stupid, male, female, whatever!

You spoke of high teen suicide rate, which yes, is alarming, but a judgment on the amount of treatment they receive is unfair and as far as I can tell it is merely your opinion – a BIG statement to make without having proof to back it up.

Sluvious: Totally true. We are all idiots, but sometimes someone will say or do something so egregiously wrong idiocy is taken to a new level.

Tammy: Ahh, and we come to the post that irritated me most!

“it takes A LOT OF LOVE..you have to show this EVERY DAY! How many of these parents hug their kids or tell them they love them ( like they really mean it) on a daily basis?”
Um... how many children actually appreciate this act? My mother gives me a kiss, a hug and an “I love you” each night before bed and I always try to squirm my way out of it; I have nothing more against her than most teens do with their mothers, I just do not want that affection. I stand (well, sit) her before you as a ‘stereotypical’ teen (if there is such a thing). The teens I know, the vast majority, would just prefer a “Goodnight” through a closed door.

“Parents have to be involved in their child's life..know where they are at..know what they are doing..know who they are with...I am not saying be overbearing..but be parents.”
This comment annoyed me greatly. Do you forget what it is like to be a teenager? Parents are more so ‘overbearing’ these days with the invention of mobile phones and a parents ability to contact and annoy their child anywhere and anytime of the day.
*It a Saturday and I go out at around 12pm to meet up with a friend. I am on the bus, train, or tram and at 12:30, I get a call from my mother;
“Where are you? Who are you seeing? When will you be back? Why didn’t you tell me? Oh, OK, that’s fine, have fun. Love you.”
Now... on a Saturday you would assume that whatever I choose to do (during the daytime) does not need to be chaperoned by a parent or figure over the age of 18. I am 17 myself and turning 18 in a few months anyway.

Constrict a teenager and they will rebel. We all know this. We have all been through it or currently are. Indeed, we need rules, but restrictions, constraints and plain wrapping us up in cotton wool will only anger us and promote renegade teenagers.

Can I ask once again

What is the topic about?

Ouch Donald... i am hardly a MISS :P
*checks down pants* No, no 'Miss' here :P

And your first comment i noted as being... sarcastic? Mocking? And i think that was why i took to the defence so quickly. My apologies.

The topic of this thread has been long lost, in all honesty. I was considering putting in a note in my last post but thought this current topic was involving many people so why destroy the 'moment'?

I guess the CURRENT topic is how teenagers (and adults) react to certain situations which in turn results in 'depression'. Neglect and misinturpretation seeming to be the key factors being focused on(?). There are also opinins floating around of how 'depression' can be overcome and/or be avoided altogether.
(If i am wrong or have missed anything, please correct me ^^)

Teys...you say your mother shows you all this affection & you would rather she didn't... But may I ask, are you one of the "depressed" kids on this site?
I would venture to say no you aren't since the ones that are seem to bother you so much.

Maybe that just proves my point, huh?
Think about it...

:)

“You spoke of high teen suicide rate, which yes, is alarming, but a judgment on the amount of treatment they receive is unfair and as far as I can tell it is merely your opinion – a BIG statement to make without having proof to back it up”

I don’t believe I made a judgment on the amount of treatment that teens receive. All forms of self-harm are a potentially fatal disorder. Unfortunately all members of society are not psychiatrist. But if I were psychiatrist treating a patient with a manic-depressive disorder, and they committed suicide, one could reasonably conclude I did not help that patient.

Tammy: I have read things on this site that have been exaggerated so disgustingly, and it irritates me. I have friends who have been through what many of these self-harmers have gone through and they have never resorted to the extremes kids have *said* they have gone to. Hell, i have had my problem or two - but who hasn't?

It is simple - THAT'S LIFE. Kids do not realize that "shit happens" and you just got to keep on trucking.

Michael: Another conclusion could be that the patient did not have the strength or will to even attempt to get better. THAT is more and more being the case with kids these days; they want it all spoon fed to them - "Make me happy! Wave your magical wand and make it happen effortlessly!"

Oh and by the way... someone who actually does commit suicide is [most times] someone who had SERIOUS issues. This topic was about the fakes out there; someone who actually commits suicide had a REAL will to die, cutters and the like do it for attention.

“Michael: Another conclusion could be that the patient did not have the strength or will to even attempt to get better. THAT is more and more being the case with kids these days; they want it all spoon fed to them - "Make me happy! Wave your magical wand and make it happen effortlessly!"

I do not have a magic wand nor have I ever clamed to have one. It was not my intention either to discredit psychiatrist. You bring a valid argument to this discussion with the mention of strength and will. I believe in spiritual healing of a divine nature. It is not natural for a living creature to want to harm themselves. It is natural to desire attention.
My pets desire attention. I am concerned that cutting is becoming as cultural as drug abuse. I am somewhat hopeful that not all the teens that write about self harm, actually engage in this insane habit. But I fear we are helpless either way. It does seem like many teens glamorize mutilating themselves by writing dark poems about it. I have never came across a cutting poem that stated I am harming myself because of to much faith hope and love, but I have read many that exalt doubt despair and hate. LORD grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the strength to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference

”Oh and by the way... someone who actually does commit suicide is [most times] someone who had SERIOUS issues. This topic was about the fakes out there; someone who actually commits suicide had a REAL will to die, cutters and the like do it for attention”

In my opinion, manic depression is a REAL disorder, and a SERIOUS issue if left untreated

I did not intend to insinuate you did have or clame to have a magic wand - my point of using that phrase was to highlight the fairytale wishes many of these 'depresses' kids hope for. They are impatient and like most people want everything good to come to them instantly, without effort on their behalf. Miracles are what they seek.

Pets desire attention, yes, as does a toddler; but neither goes about mutilating themselves.

Speaking in absolutes cannot be justified as there will always be a group of 'exceptions'. Someone can commite suicide and just be an fool who used it as a last resort for attention. Lol. Sounds stupid but i'm sure there have been poeple like that.