Real Evolution

Hey folks,

Over here in Scotland we recently had put into place after massive public pressure, a no smoking ban in all public shops, pubs, restuarants and nightclubs.

Now as a non-smoker I think this is great. I might even go so far as to say an evolution of a societal nature....we all know smoking is bad for our health...and so we ban it in places where it greatly damages others. Seems simple and common sense doesn't it?

Ok. Then why haven't we banned Alcohol consumption in public places? The sale of guns to anyone, poor quality food that kills us very slowly, capital punishment, misleading media etc etc.

Evolution didn't stop with us getting thumbs [bill Hicks]....so it's time to evolve ideas.

What say you?

Beyond, are you serious? If population control is the issue here, then we should do the smart thing and limit how many children each person can have...explain it to the people....work out the food+air+people deal.

We shouldn't be advocating substances that cause very unpleasant deaths as a means to keep the masses to a workable number...that's an awful way of looking at things. I suppose you think war is a good way to cull surplus human lives?

You gonna be first to sacrifice yourself?

There are so many other things that should be banned and these should be treated the same as smoking, but then most governments deal in double standards.

Items that should be considered:

1. Alcohol
2. Gambling [It has been proven that it is addictive]
3. Bad Poor Quality Food
4. Misleading Adverts [False or misleading representation].
5. Selling Of Fire Arms

Drivers that are drunk actually kill many people on the roads in many countries each year, so it is not just a matter of being annoying if they are drunk. They threaten the safety of others if they are driving.

^^^ Not to mention fires that maybe started by drunk smokers in their basement rec. rooms!

Do you guys get what I'm saying though? It appears you do....regardless of the fact it would be difficult...if we want to move forwards as a species...not having things like alcohol and crap food would make such a massive difference.

Of course anyone who implemented such measure would have to replace it with something else...like subsidised oraganic farming and....oh i don't know...herbal T courses or something!

You are right Kevin…

We should ban the consumption of alcohol as we did for smoking. But the alcohol affects one person, while smoking effects a lot.

People are more interested in stopping things that harm many rather than things that harm the person themselves and a few others.

To tell you the truth, the government does not care about a few people.

As they say “The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few”

Sigh* Sometimes I wonder what will happen in the next few more years…

In England many pubs have banned smoking at the bar. So the smokers step away and the drunks prop up the bar. The drunks who do more subsequent damage to you than any passive smoke will ever do!

Where I live, a massive chemical plant has stood for over a century. It's claimed many lives directly and indirectly. Many of it's products are cancer causing: benzine, toluene etc etc. This plant used to piss it polution into the river at night; as it did into the atmosphere via the chimneys. The government turned a blind eye.

My point: Capitalism has killed more heads per capita than the cigerette. Banning the cig' is just another smokescreen (no pun intended) to blind us from bigger issues. It's also control.

Here, here, sluvious.

Sluvious is right, smoking is such a small issue compared to the pollutants which our goverments collectively allow corporations with deep pockets to spew into the atmosphere, the cigarette smoking is unlikely to kill all of us off. But the green house effect, the pollutants, carbon dioxide and monoxide build up and ozone depletion will likely in time kill everything off.

Ismail, Donald and I already mentioned that drunks do cause so much damage, drunk drivers causing accidents and deaths on the roads, drunks going on violent rampages causing damge and injuring other, brawls, family disputes etc.

If you also think about it junk food like the greasy burger and chicken joints that are causing so much damage to the younger generation. There are so many more obese children now.

Bob's point is an obvious one which negates the need for us being told to "wake up". Of course environmental pollution is a much larger threat to our health than smoking, the difference is freedom of choice. I know the government doesn't want to ban such a lucrative tax income as smokes and alcohol....I was asking why haven't WE THE PEOPLE...banned it....protested...stopped using them ourselves!.. I can choose to not smoke right now, and so can all of you thus having an immediate positive effect upon myself and everyone around me.

I can not buy products i know to be harmful to our planet...I can vote for leaders who appear to green and liberal....but i can't control what the companies do, the coperations...except with my spending power and so there is a marked difference in our abilitiy to directly influence these matters.

What do you think would happen if a critical mass of people stopped smoking tomorrow?....it would cause massive upheaval to the tobacco industry...they would have to take people's concerns seriously...even the government would notice that one.

It won't happen of course...too many idiots puffing away thinking they look coolio....

You know that the tobacco companies are even trying to muster up support for their image for caring for the community over here. How so? They have advertised that if people save 10,000 of those small pieces of foil found inside the packets and submit them, then the tobacco company will donate one wheel chair to charity. If it is 100,000 of the wrappers, then they will donate a kidney dialysis machine. Go figure.

Back on track, the point is that too many people enjoy all these bad things that we shouldn't, like cigarettes, booze, gambling etc. We will never find a utopia. The same can be said for drugs, even though these are illegal, there will always be people who make them and always be crack heads who buy them.

More like vices control humans.

I think humans need their interests and distractions more than their vices...I mean what is a vice but a hobbie that is bad for you?

Gambling is a vice right? But it is the same as any other thing you devote time to...your free time that is.

Bob [why do you have another name on this site?] I do understand the governments interest in alcohol and tobacco...in fact i said exactly that in my post, did you read it?...I mentioned the tax interests? yes?

Not addressing the real issue? What are you talking about! I brought this whole discussion up...and let's get one thing straight..the tobacco industry will never be able to repay enough to society for the damage it's done...regardless of the other negative products like drugs and alcohol...you can't validate the positivity of such an industry by comparing it to another harmlful one...thats not logical.

You are getting personal Bob, and that's just bad tennis...I have absolutely no connection to that idiotic quoted middle section of your last post, i don't know who wrote it, but the way you posted it in a response to me...makes it look like i wrote it...and then you seem to use it's vitriol to suggest I'm hiding my real views behind a hatred of people with an addiction...and then that i'm manipulative.

whats up?

Guys, cool down, this was a constructive discusssion. Let's not become argumentative.

I am also a smoker by choice because I also enjoy it, but I do not drink also by choice because I have seen what alcohol has done to many people after they have had one too many. They act like complete idiots and animals, destructive behaviour is displayed, violence and the numerous car accidents caused by wreckless drunk drivers.

People who are addicted to alcohol tend to be far worse then smokers, lol I can hear the arguments all the time about the damages of second hand smoke. But when you look at it closely, those who drink and get out of hand do far more damage and in much shorter time span.

A bit of sarcasm: Nothing like a good old football match in UK where the football hooligans get pissed and plastered out of their minds on cheap ale and starting brawls and tearing up the stadium is there? I don't see them banning pubs and bars, hmmm, makes you think.

So choose your poison wisely and live and let live.

I don't hate smokers Bob, twice you have said I am hiding this notion, twice now I have told you nay, please stop it...i hate it when people do that...there's some hate for you if you insist.

I do think people who smoke are doing something very silly which, if you believe the phrase "stupid is as stupid does"...means smoking does for me cast a shadow over how smart/informed/wise a person is for in terms of their life choices. I know i've challenged you on a few things recently, and I am brazen and blunt often...but whats all this about my behaviour [underlying problem i think you called it] on the boards recently attracting your attention? Do tell, don't suggest..I hate people teasing me with half hearted evaluation my of character, if you have something to say just say it man.

Topic focus then. I'm still interested in what ideas and ways of living you guys think would benifit mankind...and which ones we have now you think should be abolished.

Being too mamby pamby with our youths is one to be abolished, and one to benefit our country at least is to bring back corporal punishment in schools!!

Maybe these two changes might benefit mankind in the long run because discipline is important in all affairs and crosses barriers.

This topic is called real evolution, not "smoking, a debate."

I used the issue of smoking to make a point, i'm not trying to exclusively focus on it and I am aware there are issues, like sexual abuse, war and environmental policies that are more important to the general overall wellbeing of everyone on this planet.

I know that, it's obvious. So far very few of you have actually said anything about how we could actually evolve ideas...you've only mentioned things you don't like that should be banned....it's the how and why that is interesting.

I hate smo[c]kers.

Higher dimensions? You mean in an astral sense? Or in some vague intellectual sense?

In any case your poetry is rather good.

Nice to see a Bill Hicks quote right at the top.

And I quit 3 years ago. 3 years and... wait... 25 days.

What happened after I quit was this: I got really fat, I became horribly addicted to mayonaisse (seriously), I'd lose my temper quick, and my disdain for the progress of the human being as a species took a nosedive.

I have met other ex-smokers who find it shocking that I am pro-smoking in public places. The only time I will support a ban on this is when governments choose to ban tobacco and tobacco products completely. Because frankly I find it incredibly two-faced that they can spout banal rhetoric while taking millions in tax revenue from the product.

Ooh the anti-smoking lobby just get me so irate I swear I am gonna start smoking again. Not tobacco, obviously...

Nuovo,

had a few astral experiences in my time, just finished reading a great book on the subject to get myself back into the habit.

Check out "Astral Dynamics" by Robert Bruce...without a doubt the best book there is on the subject, and i've read quite a few...he really breaks it all down and explains things other books only hint at...and you can tell he's talking from experience by the little details he puts into every explanation, things only a real projector would know...little noises and such.

Happy flying.