What the heck is wrong with these guys????

Ok..well maybe I was married too long or spoiled by my husband or something..lol
I was just wondering what the heck happened to the men? I mean, where is the respect for women and what happened to being a gentleman?
I recently went out on my first (and possibly last..LOL) date since my divorce. Man, I couldn't believe it! I MUST be really old fashioned like my mom has always said.
I was raised seeing the man open the door for the woman and when I was married, my husband almost always opened the door for me.
Well, let me tell you what happened... My date picked me up for dinner, when we arrived he started to get out of the truck and I asked if he was going to open the door for me...to my surprise, he leaned across me and opened the door from the inside and said there ya go with a big smile. (looking like he was sooo proud of himself) I sat there thinking... what the heck? LOL Granted, this man is almost 10 years younger than I am, but didn't his parents teach him any manners? Don't parents teach young men how to treat a lady anymore? I have 4 boys and the ones who are dating know they BETTER treat their girl like a lady or they will have momma to deal with..LMAO
Then once inside & dinner had arrived, I was so embarassed...he actually took a HUGE piece of his steak and dug into it with his fork like a caveman, then as he was talking to me (or should I say screaming) during dinner he was holding his fork in the air waving it around.(with the huge piece of meat still on it) He didn't even cut his steak, but instead, just bit off what he wanted. I wanted so badly to just disappear :)

Then at the end of the night, he was all over me, he was seriously expecting sex..what the heck? I just met him...

Can I pick em or what?? :P

Oh my gosh..I really don't think I am ready for all of this yet..LMAO

I want to clarify something..I am not saying All men are like this winner.
maybe it was a fluke. LMAO

This is my first date in 17 years. Am I expecting too much here?
Have men really changed that much?

Sunny...You can't even imagine how nervous I was before this date..LOL

I have laughed so much over this date already. I can't get the picture of him waving that steak around and talking with his mouth full out of my head.
LMAO
Adventure is putting it mildly...

LMAO...I don't think that is very likely Sunny :P

What a bummer, cause this guy is absolutely gorgeous.
Long dark hair, beautiful dark eyes and a smile that will knock your socks off... sigh

LMAO..yes!

I wish I had a video..it was something else :)

Don't worry, I will find a gentleman. I won't settle for any less.
And you are right, if he treats you right, some things can be overlooked.

Women nowadays demand equality in everything men do.
They work, and are independent.
Some men of today were not thought these manners because they were raised by nannies, day cares, babysitters, or by themselves.
These men see women as equals. As they work side by side, or even for them at times.

Equality is killing Chivalry and marriages

While my mother stayed at home, raised us, my father worked hard. When he came home. my mom would greet him with hugs and kisses. The children (me included) would see this and learn from it. We would greet him with hugs and kisses too. "Daddys home!!!!" Dad felt sooo appreciated. My mom would have a warm bath and a hot meal. We made him feel special. Thats because he was. So he naturally treat mom with love. He wouldn't let her carry anything, open doors, take her out every Saturdays. Buy her pretty things.
Now things are different.

My friend is married. They both work, have a 5 year old. The kid is being raised by a nanny, and they come home from work tired and grumpy. Make a quick meal or throw something in the microwave oven. Take a quick shower, and go to sleep.
If this man ever get divorced, he will not be opening doors. lol

I'm glad I was raised by my mom. I learned her qualities, her customs, her manners.

BTW. my girlfriend soon to be fiance is studying to be a career woman. :(

So for the record.. I believe in equality too. I never for one minute believed that my mom was less than my dad, but I also believe that we just happen to have different roles in life. Don't believe me.. ask God.

"Equality is killing Chivalry and marriages"
"but I also believe that we just happen to have different roles in life"

I think chivalry was dumb to begin with. I think what you're referring to as chivalry is actually a neo-romantic reconstruction of chivalry, or a misuse of the word altogether. In any case, I wouldn't care at all if Chivalry died tomorrow, it was antiquated anyway. Men shouldn't defend women because of some system that declares women as frail and helpless, they should defend women because defending people is a good thing. Everyone should defend each other, depending on their capabilities. When I open a door for someone, I don't do it because someone nagged me to when I was younger, I do it because my father and mother told me that holding doors open is a sign of respect, and allows the person to pass through without expending any extersion, as little as it may be. I don't hold doors open only for women, I do it for anyone who will be walking through the door soon after I do.

That being said, I think having two parents that work is extremely detrimental. I think that there certainly ARE different roles in the maintanence of a household. I think some of them can be split up and shared, like cooking and washing dishes. But I think children need more attention than they are getting.

The catch to my statement above is that I don't think these roles are necessarily gender specific. A certain element of them are, and women and men are mentally and physically different -- but if my girlfriend (eventually wife) plans on working (she isn't, but if she changes her mind...) I'll happily stay at home and make sure my children are raised to believe that helping others is of the utmost importance.

chivalry: courtesy towards women,
gallant or distinguished gentlemen

* Not the medieval principles of knighthood. *
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I mean't the coutesy taward women. What Tammy described. Get out of the car and open the car door for her. From the outside. lol
Pull her seat, Sit down after she sits. Stand when she stands, give her flowers, tell her she looks lovely, eat like a gentleman. I believe that most of these qualities come from your parents. mine did.

Like I said, I believe in equality, but for different roles.
and of course a man can stay at home while she works.. the important thing here is that at least one of the parents raise the kids.

-----------------------------
The catch to my statement above is that I don't think these roles are necessarily gender specific.
^^^^^^^^

I respect your opinion, but I do. Even in nature most mammals and other creatures that raise the young are females. They were built for that. From the mammaries to the loving voice. From the tender skin to the way they smell. (well, all except aunt Betsy) heh.

I'm not saying a man can't do it, I'm just saying that it's more natural for a women.

My aunt is a lawyer and my uncle is a homemaker. My cousins are turning out fine.

All in all the important things is that they are learning good values from a parent.

Tammy, Chivalry and being a gentleman is not out of style it is just a lost art. So many people have been raised by TV because of single parent households, seen different standards of behavior, and sadly, it has been accepted by women and other men (who are afraid to tell someone to act like a gentleman). Keep your high standards and find the gentleman you seek and deserve. Don't sell yourself short and don't settle for less. The lovely lady I am engage to is amazed at my chivalrous ways and my romantic tendancies. When guys figure out that this sets them apart from the competition, it will come back....sadly....it may take generations.

Bill, its not coming back. lol

I seen teens sit and leave pregnant women or elders standing on the bus. they burb, play radios, and call each other b's and ho's, every sentence starts with f this f that... and just don't care what everyone around them feels. They are terrible. My God.

I use to call older people Mr. and Mrs. Now they call me dude, and dog. rofl

My seventeen year old son, has a tattoo, calls everyone dog or some other slang term, but when it comes to adults and the young women he works and goes to school with is a gentleman. He gets it. If you saw him in a sleeveless muscle shirt with his piercings you would think otherwise, but he understands chivalry. The girl he dates fell for him because some guy was hassling another girl and he told him to knock it off. When the guy decided to show off and hassle my son, he found out that years of wrestling, taekwondo and sparing with his dad (I was a swat team leader) would be his downfall. My son didn't trash him....he just made him look stupid, with no effort and told him to walk away before he got more than his ego hurt. She instantly realized what kind of guy he was and appreciates it.

These kinds of young men are out there. You just have to look for them. Amongst his friends with the colored mohawks, dyed hair and piercings are numerous young men of character. You just have to look past the appearance. Are all teenagers this way? No. Are there good people amongst the ones who look like hoodlums....? Yes.

It will never be what it was, but it will get better. Values are becoming more appreciated in society, but it took a long time for us to get where we are. It will take time to get back.

I'm not of the opinion that it will ever get back to where it once was, nor should we look for that. I think that sometimes people look behind and wish for what was instead of look foward and wish for what could be. I treat my girlfriend with the courtesy and kindness, I obey my elders and offer my seat on the bus to anyone who seems like they'd prefer sitting to standing. But I'm not looking to be what used to be the norm. I just want people in general to have an easier time, to get along better. I think chivalry, even in the neo-romantic sense, has too much to do with gender. I think that if we were to look forward to a resurgence of humility and manners, we should look for a hybridization of old and new, of a chivalry towards people, not just of the old roles we previously ascribed for a man or a woman.

I'm pretty young, but when it comes to boys...i'm so picky about their manners...it's...old fashioned as some say. I believe in well-mannered gentlemen that likes to have fun, but also opens the door for girls, and so on

Well for me, it's a respect thing. I will go out of my way to open a door for an elderly person or someone with their arms full or whatever the case may be. Man , woman or child, it doesn't matter. It's just respect for people in general. There's no way I would take a seat & leave an elderly person standing..again, respect. However, I would appreciate the same kind of respect when it's me with my arms full trying to get through a door.

Now as far as men being gentlemen goes...My mother always told me "if you want to be treated like a lady, you have to act like a lady" So I am wondering if it may have something to do with the way women act now. I mean, seriously, If I was a man, I'm not real sure I would want to open the door for some of these women..LOL I'm not bashing women here either...only expressing what I am seeing nowdays. My second job is at a gas station...man do I get an earful & an eyeful working there every night..LOL But what saddens me the most is watching these young girls act like they do & talk the way they do. And I don't even want to get into how they dress. I watch how the young men treat these girls and know it's not right, but then sometimes I stop and wonder what exactly it is these girls are doing that would make a young man want to show respect for them.

Sunny said this "The trick is, to find a gentleman, who knows how to treat a lady"
I for one, am not seeing too many ladies nowdays.

"Are there good people amongst the ones who look like hoodlums....? Yes. "

Bill, I have to agree with you on this one.

My 22 year old son has quite a few tattoos & piercings. But has a lot of respect for people. When his friends are here at the house hanging out in the gameroom, you'd never think it to listen to them talk to each other, but they are all very respectful young people. Every one of them treat me with respect & the few that haven't...my son lined them out real quick :)

Bob you're crazy..LMAO

Sunny Lord knows I will settle for less than perfect manners in a man. However, I do appreciate & expect at least SOME KIND of manners. LOL

Maybe it is just me, but I don't think holding open a door or making sure that every piece of steak that I eat is cut to an appropriate size before eating, not waving it around on fork, etc, has anything to do with respect. The food thing I really don't think matters at all. The door thing is simple. If someone is close behind you and you open the door you either hold it open for them to walk through or hold it until they have gotten their hand on it. Both ways ensure that the door doesn't slam in their face. But these aren't signs of respect. They are signs of courtesy, which is entirely different.

Both things you are talking about are so superficial it is unbelievable. Who cares. The sign of disrespect that should jump out to everybody is the guy trying to get in her pants at the end of the night. Screw the door and the food; those are so petty it is unbelievable. If I were you Tammy I would be most upset over the guy trying to get in my pants. That is not just disrespect to you but to all women. It shows that this guy is only looking at you as one thing, a way to pleasure himself. That is the biggest sign of disrespect in this whole thing. Everything else can slide. But that is unnacceptable.

"I do understand where you're coming from, Sean. "

...Well the paragraph you quoted was from Cory's post, not mine... So do you mean Cory?

Tammy, for one that was very nice of you to stay because I would have left even though that may be disrespectful on my part but that is just not right..I'm only 15, and can honestly say...I wish things were the way they used to be as well..I've never been on an actual date yet, but I've noticed men are like that now and I've seen it in resteraunts..I miss when the men stand up when a lady leaves the table...how sweet..and yes the opening the door thing is big for me, if they dont do that out of all things, then yeah they cant expect a second date
I was at this football game and it ws a volunteer pick-up thing..we got money for it..so look ..me and this guy Alex (who it hought I liked) held the bag and made me pick up the trash on the ground..I mean I will do it..but you'd think he'd say let me do that..so I said to him "your seriously gunna let me pick up the trash" hes like "I don't want to be sore in the morning I have a track meet"..then like 10 minutes later my brother walked over and said "arent you supposed to be the gentleman and let my sister hold the bag" i mean...whats with em these days..I agree..better luck on your next date Tam!

you people are crazy, the way it use to be. Go look into a book of history, not a highschool history book either school because they don't tell you anything about what really went on. Do you people know why guys use to do stuff like that? Because females were looked at as helpless and inferior. Yeah lets go back to the ways it use to be, when guys opened doors and ate every bite with their mouth closed and not leaving any food on the fork, while we're at it we can all remember that women weren't allowed in the work force because businesses wouldn't allow it. They were also used as icons of the home, only ever being shown as a submissive housewife who, if she didn't please her husband, was an absolute failure. Or we could trade it for the whole voting thing, or maybe the choice over their children, or way back in the days of the puritans, when they respected their wives so much that they didn't let them out of the house without the husband's or father's permission unless it was to garden. Yeah that sounds terrrific. Let's go back to the way it use to be.

And another thing. Britt, I did distinguish the difference between respect and courtesy. Manners have to do with courtesy; respect does not. This is the reason why, courtesy (manners and such) changes between cultures, but respect doesn't.

"And another thing. Britt, I did distinguish the difference between respect and courtesy. Manners have to do with courtesy; respect does not. This is the reason why, courtesy (manners and such) changes between cultures, but respect doesn't."

The extension of courtesy to another person could be considered a sign of respect. But you're right, they're different.

As far as the rest of your post, I think you should read through all the posts before yours first. I actually posted the same statement as yours albeit a bit more calmly. I also suggested that instead of being content with how things are, a new form of 'chivalry' and courtesy is possible, one that includes equality.

I've also edited your post for slightly indecent language, you were probably just upset.

Not really upset, more sarcastic. I just used the language to create an emphasis that's all. I did actually read all the other posts, including yours. And I agreed with your post about creating something new, but I just didn't think that other people realized the mindset behind the chivalry that you and I are speaking of. people here are desiring a change in mindeset but calling for a change in the actions, which are as I put it before, petty. It's like going to the doctor's office and having him treat your symptons. When doctor's treat symptons it doesn't mean they have helped you, your symptons may lessen, go away, or still be there; however the underlying disease or problem could still exist, much like mono, typhoid, aids, cancer, and herpes while lying dormant. It is merely guess work and doesn't necessarily help anything.

Also, Tammy, if your old husband spoiled you so much why did you get divorced? Just a question. If it is too personal for you to answer I don't need an answer, just thought it may help bring further revelation into this debate.

Cory,
My ex husband was very much a gentleman & still is. (as far as opening doors & things like that go)
Our divorce was due to two affairs he had. I stayed after the first but not the second.
But even now, when we take the kids out to eat or something, he still opens my door and pulls my chair out and such.

Ok. Not that I mean to put him down, or you for that matter. But as for courtesy goes, he may have been courteous but not respectful. The reason behind the divorce only serves to prove my point, and sean's, about chivalry and respect.

"you people are crazy, the way it use to be. "

Cory, I don't think when they are saying they wish it was the way it used to be that they actually mean all that. I believe they are referring to the days when men were courteous toward women and did open doors & such.
And you know, I don't really care if it is respect or courtesy...I was just wondering what happened that most men don't do these things anymore.

Also, my ex, for 15 of the almost 17 years we were married showed more respect for me than you could ever know. I agree that if you have an affair you are not showing respect. But you have no idea how he was before the affairs took place. If he wasn't respectful, believe me we would have never been married.

agreed Bob

I hear the same thing when I have an issue with one of the young people in my sunday school class. The parents act as if I should just over look everything and just deal with it instead of them teaching their child how to behave. Most of these children who act up, I seriously doubt that the parents even talk to them about it, because they are back the next week acting the same way.
Sad isn't it?
I think the blame is with the parents, not the kids.
They will do what they are taught and what they see at home. Most of them anyway... I have seen a few exceptions.

I will give you what I believe is the lack of courtesy in today's younger adults.
I think that many people are brough tup learning about manners and courtesy and respect etc. but as they get older they look at those respected people in society who are suppose to be examples of such ways and realize these people are total hypocrites. They look at these people and see that despite practicing grat manners and looking good in public it is all hypocritical, and that those things don't make anybody a better person; therefore they shun that because they are trying to disconnect themselves with the public image our society has given to these things you are speaking of Tammy.