Christians and Jesus Christ...Are you a follower?

Neither. The correct path would be not screwing your soul up with drugs or religion. Too much of anything is a bad thing, speaking as an ex amphetamine and nicotine addict who still probably partakes of alcohol and caffeine far more than is good for him.

Those Buddhists, they sure know their stuff. :-)

"...someone joining as a fully aware and intelligent adult, because they have looked at several options and decided [Christianity] is the right path, based on logic and reason."

or they concluded based on logic and reason the values of what it means to have Faith. and Christianity took a lot from the Buddhist teachings. and it evolved from Judaism. and later blended with Paganism. It's like the League of Nations of religions.

Replete with the in-house differences, squabbling, corruption, and pompous verbosity. :-)

We all want to believe in something greater than ourselves because the strain of being alive is greater in many cases than we percieve ourselves to be.

I get really angry at people when i think they are giving up their personal power to a God, passing over their ability to think independantly to a religious leader or book.

I know though we're all looking for the same thing in different places, and even though I think most christians are misguided, I see their faith and can't help admire them for it, because of the very things i think are wrong with the source of the faith. It's a strange fruit.

The subject is so old and I'm tired of it.

I'm a Christian however I sin!! Isn't that what we all are, sinners???
What really amazes me every time is that all those so called Christians in church are the biggest sinners. They are usually the ones who love to judge and gossip about others. My ex mother inlaw use to be like that. I told her any times to get her Bible out so she could learn something from it!! I don't even go to church because I can't stand all those backstabbers. I pray by myself at home, read my Bible once in awhile and try to do right in God's book!

Well as Paul Harvey says; and now for the rest of the story. When I referred to the extreme paths between faith and reasonable logic. I feel I did not give all the details. I have in my possessions a tape made by the female that chose a path that led her to prison that seemed to be a testimony to what faith had done for her, and a regret for the path she had previously chosen. I transcribed an autobiographical poem that she wrote I would be happy to email anyone on request. But sadly I also have the newspaper clipping from when she was murdered in 1992 at the age of 31. Carolina’s last months were spent trying to discourage young people from choosing the path she had once chose. I have written many poems inspired by her.

My aunt Agnes’s faith was always strong and remained strong to her death. She never expressed to me any regret for the life she had chosen. She entered the convent at the age of 18 in 1930. She remained in the convent until she died September 2002

Ed...what was that supposed to mean?

1930..wow...now that was a very insecure time. and, yeah, that does seem to be the reason many people turn to religion. not making any assumptions about your aunt. speaking generally, they want the easy answer. the quick fix. don't think about the reasons for things, just trust that god has a reason for everything. if I try to interject that life can be extremely random and abstract sometimes, my mom looks at me like I may well have said, "I eat babies." of course, I don't deny that those 'random' occurances don't also have their own meanings and are connected in some way. but some seem to be looking for 'sensible' reasons for things that don't make any sense. (except to the psychotic).

Chris
I believe there are two main rules to live by to be christian.

1. Love God
2. Love people

You can't go wrong.

Amen to that Chris.

If more people Chrisitians included, went gospel on the second one in particular, the world would be an awesome place.

God would be happy with us loving people more than him i feel.

"Ed...what was that supposed to mean?"

Read it in context. First:
"It's like the League of Nations of religions."

And I replied:
"Replete with the in-house differences, squabbling, corruption, and pompous verbosity."

I think I made myself pretty clear!

And as for what Nancy said about sinning, I'll just add that it's that aspect of some Christian sects that I find most deplorable: that the emphasis is placed on piety and strict self discipline, rather than furthering peace and humanity in a fundamentally vicious and competitive species.

I have a friend who runs a medical centre in West Africa. She says that the two biggest barriers to Africa pulling itself out of poverty are Catholicism and Islam.

Tammy hit it right on the nose. Love God. Love people. it says in many places int he bible to love one another. Romans 12:10 "Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honor one another above yourselves." or 1 Peter 3:8 "Finally, all of you, live in harmony with one another; be sympathetic, love as brothers, be compassionate and humble." so if all of u say that Christianity is bad and it leads us astray, i think you should really read what the bible has to say. all the values that non believers believe in are in the bible.

And back to the original topic. what it takes to be a christian? It is not simply someone who goes to church. Going to church will not make you a Christian. By the same token when you visit a Kentucky Fried Chicken shop you do not become a chicken leg!
here are 5 things it takes to be a Christian.

Understanding that you are a new creation!
2 Corinthians 5:17 declares: "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!"

Transforming and renewing your mind.
Romans 12:2 says, "Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is - his good, pleasing and perfect will."

Treating others with love.
Philippians 2:3-4 says, "Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others."

Living out the teachings of Christ.
Jesus taught: "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted. Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth. Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled. Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy. Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God. Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God. Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 5:3-10).

Sharing your faith.
Matthew 5:14-16 says, "You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven."

there's the answer. straight from the bible. this post was not about if Christians were right or worng. it was about what it takes to be a christian and God spells it out right in the bible. there u go. its done.

bible written by man through God. agian this is not about people who dont believe. this post is for people who believe and want to live a Christian life. thank you. and God Bless.

If God is Dj and life is dancefloor......you guys are all dancing really crap right now.

I am tap dancing over this parents boogie like a lightweight....thing.

Seriously guys, I've never seen, in all the millions of debated in here on this subject, ONE PERSONS MIND CHANGED ABOUT ANYTHING...it's all just

"he said she said God said satan said"

Boring as hell, or heaven, whatever.

Might as well talk about Aliens, or Superman, it's not really life and it changes very little...a waste of time in other words.

im sorry. i shouldnt have jumped to conclusion. generally when someone makes a statement like the one you made, it means that you dont believe the words are true and hence not a believer. im am truely truely sorry.
Judging should only be done by God alone and that just proves that I am not perfect. Thank you for calling me on that.

Kevin, that's why i posted the answer a posted. that answers the post and the post wasnt supposed to be a debate. it was supposed to be opinions and i think it was. we all learned something about one another and about questions we might have had. so this post and this discussion was definately not a waste of time.

I think Jesus rocks. As I've said on here before, and as I have said elsewhere, he is one of my heroes, and has been since I was about 10 or 11.

But one of the OTHER things that annoys me about Christians is when they suck snippets out of the Bible and spit them at you in a context that is nothing like that of the text as a whole. Like "A Christoffer" quoting Corinthians. Yes, a very noble thing to say, I'm sure. But unfortunately the very next line states quite categorically that all things are of God and His Creation, and as such the relationship of man and Christ as God have not changed, no matter what you do.

But hey... quote away. The Bible readers will find the references applicable to their perception of Life, regardless. :-)

I think that is mostly because of the legal system Dwelt. If it had been me she would have been dead by now. However, who am I to judge or even choose death for someone else. This is God's work and she'll eventually have to confront her creator!! I have noticed that a lot of criminals use their so called illness to get away with this kind of crap. I have Bipolar Disorder, does that mean I can go kill people??? That is such a lame excuse about the devil telling her. Yes, she is one sick woman but she deserves life in prison!! Wonder if she can sleep at night!!

"I have Bipolar Disorder, does that mean I can go kill people???"

Of course it does. But it doesn't mean you will.

Knowing the difference is the main thing, and that has nought to do with Gods.

Excactly, so can she bring up the devils name and blame him for doing what she did?? Because she is sick??? I'm sick of hearing all these murders, " I have a mental illness!" I work with people who have severe mentall illnesses and they have more control than that she had. Anyway the more I think about it the angrier I get!! Again, it is not up to us to judge her or put her to death!! She'll have to meet her creator and I sure hope she burns in hell!! I mean, she included the devil in her little games, so that is the place she should be!

Well, like I already said...Hope she burns in hell where she can be with the devil!! I'm only getting more stressed out with this bull!!

“Oh God said to Abraham, "Kill me a son"
Abe says, "Man, you must be puttin' me on"
God say, "No." Abe say, "What?"
God say, "You can do what you want Abe, but
The next time you see me comin' you better run"
Well Abe says, "Where do you want this killin' done?"
God says, "Out on Highway 61."

Bob Dylan

‘Hey, Christians! I'd love some opinions on The Gospel of Judas, please!’
Well Ed we could start another thread on the Gnostic gospels, but we would probably end up as confused as the Judas portrayed in Mel Gibson’s movie ‘The Passion of the Christ’
I believe without a doubt that Christ was the anointed one. And if religion could be compared to ointment there seems to be an unwritten law that there is always a fly in the ointment. Of the original twelve, Judas betrayed, Peter denied and Thomas doubted.
In the gospel of John chapter ten verse 32 Jesus says many good deeds I have shown you from the Father, for which of them do you stone me. Luke 22;21 AND YET THE HAND OF MY BETRAYER IS WITH ME AT THIS TABLE Verse 22 the son of man is following out his appointed course, but woe to that man by whom he is betrayed.
John 13;18 ‘what I say is not said of all, for I know the kind of men I chose. My purpose here is the fulfillment of the scriptures. He who partook of the bread with me has raised his heel against me. I tell you this now, before it takes place, so that when it takes place you may believe that I AM. I solemnly assure you, he who accepts anyone I send accepts me, and in accepting me accepts him who sent me. I tell you solemnly one of you will betray me. This gospel goes on to say that Satan entered the heart of Judas at the moment he took the bit of food from JESUS. Jesus told him to be quick about what he was about to do. If we see the bread as the symbol of forgiveness that further confirms that JESUS did not refuse this bread to anyone. But the divine healing power of forgiveness is sometimes rejected

The cross has become a symbol of faith
The heart has become a symbol for love
The anchor has become a symbol for hope

Jesus said no one takes from me except what I give freely

And the Gospel of Judas?

You're not quoting anything valid, I hope you're aware of that.

Thank you Ed...Was gonna say that too!!

Well, let me put it this way. I think I am fairly open minded when it comes to the validity of an ancient document, and the gospel of Judas is not in my bible yet. If there is a reason that you think it should be I will be happy to read your thoughts on why it should be there.

A good reason? How about having a fair and balanced book.

Some say that there are many books of the bible that were taken out because the presented ideas that were not in line with the thoughts of the church leaders.

Not very fair is it. But then what is fair about Religion?

Michael: "the validity of an ancient document"

That's the problem: it's NOT an ancient document. Pretty much all of you Christians read the King James VERSION of the Bible, and I am sure none of you are fluent enough in ancient Hewbrew or Sanskrit to actually be able to read ANY of the ancient documents.

Most Christians whom I open discussion of the Gospel of Judas with don't even know about it. They think it anathema. Or that it's irrelevent to their belief system. And if the latter is the case then how Christian are they, really? Christ was an educator of Man, and I doubt he intended Man's education to stop at his death...

Any Christian who has not studied the possibility that Jesus ordered Judas to betray him is (and I mean no offence by this, it is my BELIEF) not a Christian as Christ intended.

I have researched the history of the books of the bible and I found a lot of interesting things I am sure there are a lot of things I have yet to learn about it. As far as I know the King James Version is still on the prohibited list of books that Roman Catholics are forbidden to read. The history of the translations of the books of the bible is a long story
The world book encyclopedia states that the Vulgate was translated from Latin to English in 1582. The king James version was completed around 1611

I don’t want to invoke the wrath of the mods by misquoting, but I believe that Kevin Murray and Bob Shank, a former mod, were educated in a Catholic school as I was

I believe I was falling away from the traditional teachings of the Catholic church when I joined a charismatic catholic prayer group. When I received treatment for my alcoholism my counselor told me that the difference between a prayer meeting and an AA meeting could be that you might find at a prayer meeting a group praying not to go to hell. An AA meeting is a place where you are likely to find a group that has been through hell and are praying not to go back

As far as the gospel of Judas, I believe that it is not only possible, but it is probable that many books that were pertinent to the regarded scriptures were intentionally left out the bible.
I believe the bible has many solid principles that can be used in the healing of the mind, body, and spirit
There are times when it seems that there are groups that would like to throw this ointment out because of the impurities

Forgive me for going off topic, but you were brought up a Catholic and you're in AA? That makes you the 6th person "I know" going through the tough ride.

Kudos to you. I know from a dear friend about the prayer you guys have for treating the demons, and I do the very best I can to support him through the tougher times. He helped me through my tough times, and he (like myself - I'm an amphetamine reptile and ex-smoker) is a Disciple of Hicks who believes that our God-given purpose is to evolve for the good of humanity.

I'd love to believe that some day Jesus will come back and set mankind on the straight and narrow, but unfortunately I also believe in this day and age we'd ultimately want to know what teeth whitener he uses and which is his preferred credit card. Because let's face it, we have a new God, and he's greener than any envy.

Forgive me if I am going of topic but I cannot resist sharing this story
Before I was married I had an unorthodox relationship with a cocaine addict
Supporting a habit such as that is a twenty four seven occupation. To make a long story short I was having a difficult time with the last of the twelve steps because I had not done the others properly. Anyway I repeatedly warned the young addict that if she was not serious about recovery she needed to stay away from me. While she was at least pretending to be interested in recovery I took her to see The ‘Passion of the Christ’ on Palm Sunday. On Holy Thursday she informed me she had warrants on her and asked me to help her turn herself in. She was not innocent, and she was not about to be crucified but guess who I identified with when she was arrested on Good Friday

Dog The Bounty Hunter?

I just got re-furbished by the Lord last thursday :)

I got saved again and this time i wont let go of God.

Yes, I love God and Jesus.

I know what they did for me and everything... and yes I know what you mean by people saying they're christian/catholic but dont go to church at all.

Quick note: God and Jesus don't do house-fittings. And if they do it's not salvation, it's feng shui.

Oh hang on... Jesus is a carpenter.

We've only just begun...

Actually Ed I dont believe this quoted statement was very "clear" as you claim...

"No, and God forbid anyone should question focus in the Islamic faith eh?"

Please do elaborate or feel free to email me :o)

Not only explain that Ed ^^ But explain

"Any Christian who has not studied the possibility that Jesus ordered Judas to betray him is not a Christian as Christ intended"

I'm a Christian and I'll be honest haven't read a lot of the bible ...well from beginning to end..I just read where my eyes take me..But I haven't read or heard that...I'm kinda confused by that....so your saying that if I dont believe Jesus said to Judas "betray me" then I'm not a Christian? *blushes* I don't follow you there..HELP!

I'm saying that if you can't explore the possibility that Jesus wanted Judas to betray him for the greater good of His cause that you're not a true Christian. I believe true Christians explore their faith and build it for an uncertain future, not stick to one text and pray that they've not made the wrong choice...

And as for what I mean, re: "question focus in the Islamic faith", I was referencing the fact that Islam "is the unquestionable Word of God".

got cha..ok..we are on the same page now...thank you :-)

Right. Just so long as you understand that Jesus is a major MAJOR hero of mine, and that this is borne largely of reading the writings of "heretics" over the years. I get real pissed off when the right-wing of this world hijack his peaceful and progressive teachings as an icon for their hatred, their warmongering and their bigotry.

I find it hard not to imagine Jesus smashing Charlton Heston's skull in with a rifle butt at the Gates Of Hell. Y'ne wh't'm s'yin? I feel bad for thinking this.

~ In order to be a Christian, you not only have to believe that Jesus died for our sins, but you have to accept him as your savior. Faith is a major aspect in this situation. People say that they pray for things, and the never get a response, and therefore don't believe that God exists. We have to have FAITH that God knows whats best for us, and what we think is right for us, may not always be. God has a plan for each and every one of us, whether you believe or not. God loves and forgives. There is a reason that God doesn't anwser that little prayer that we have that we think is SO important. We may not have the anwsers that we want now, but further in our lives, we will recieve the lesson that gives us the anwsers we were looking for all along. God Bless

Yep Jess I don't know how many times my pastor has said that!