Depression is knowledge the key

This might also cover other psychological illnesses as well. It never fails to amaze me how young some of the people who post in these threads. Talking and discussing various cures, symptoms and their experiences.

I look back at myself and while I’ve had quite a variety of different issues for a long time I’d never considered myself depressed. In fact the opposite I was cocky. I felt bright, in control and fairly level headed. Now I look back and wonder what the hell happened.

I had no knowledge and I’m not saying that information or help wasn’t there. It was just I thought depression was something that effected less intelligent people, or those who lack confidence. Sort of like not preparing your civil defense emergency kit, because disasters happen in other countries.

Some people here say suicides selfish, but they are ignorant. To be selfish you would have to be able to reason your actions. It’s like a distant nightmare now time spent researching painless suicide methods and all those insane actions. I walked around a pier during a storm up on the top of the guard rail (quite a thick width) …..one slip OMG. An obsession with dangerous heights followed it is all quite bizarre now.

All the time it was like being in a dream, except in this dream there was almost no sleep I was a zombie for years. It was a combination of his lack of awareness and my total embarrassment of what was happening that lead me to hide everything. Eventually pressure builds and something snaps.

Now this is where I get back to my point. Since then I’ve had medication, psychiatry and done so much research that I feel I’ve come out the other side armed with the knowledge of how to protect myself in the future. (Or at least recognize I need help again)

My advice for what’s its worth is to accept you have a problem and learn as much as can from all different sources to give you a balanced view. Talk to others, (this site is one), seek help and don’t be ashamed. There’s a life out there somewhere that’s worth living you can either give up or go looking for it.

Hear hear!

"Some people here say suicides selfish, but they are ignorant."

I have a problem with what you have said here, I think if you look at it, suicide is incredibly selfish. It is an ending for you, but it is an awful thing to leave your friends and family with. Losing somebody through suicide is worse than most other ways of death. You feel guilty, because you think it was your fault.

It is cruel and it IS selfish. Because people need to do things for others as well. Sometimes you need to give up what you want as it is for the best.
I am by no means saying it isn't awful for the person who is suicidal, of course there are immense reasons for killing yourself. BUT that does not stop it being selfish.

Apart from that, I think you generally gave very good advice. Well done on what you have achieved. Best wishes for you in the future.

XXXXX

I'm sorry Katie and Bob, but I'm going to have to argue this one.

Depression - Depression is a whole body illness that affects a person's physical health as well as how he or she feels, thinks, and behaves towards others. In addition, a person who suffers from this disorder may have problems eating, sleeping, working, and getting along with his/her friends.

(Just for the sake of those who do not know)

Depression is a 'disease' that affects one's way of thinking. A depressed person cannot think about him/herself rationally and believe they have selfworth. A depressed person does not stand on a bridge, hold a gun in his/her hand, hold a knife to their wrist, and think about all the people who love them. It is simply not rational.

Why you ask?

Because they cannot be rational.

I'm not quite sure where you were going with your opinion entirely Bob. A depressed person does not try and negate the negative things in their life. They gather them together and dwell on them, so much to the point of insanity.

Of course a depressed person has a hard time being honest with one's self. That is the reason they participate in therapy and psychological studies. It is designed to open up their minds to themselves so they do not have to lie anymore.

I don't believe you grasp the colossal amount of people that deal with these chemical imbalances you think so few have.

It is estimated that 19 million people deal with depression everyday. I say estimated because only one third of that number actually seek help.

How sad is it that a number of people that high have to suffer everyday because they are too scared to commit themselves to getting help?

You may look back upon a loved one and think suicide as selfish because you are hurt there was nothing you could do. Let me tell you something. There ISN'T/WASN'T anything you can/could do. It is COMPLETELY up to that person whether they can/will accept help or not.

Forgive me if I have offended anybody with my words here today. But I believe it is wrong and cruel to call anybody with a psychological problem "selfish."

Why do we attack threads like this designed to help people?

Nobody,

I appreciate you voicing your opinion, But I am going to have to disagree with you.

I know perfectly well the effects of depression and the effects of more severe mental illness, therefore I am NOT in a position of ignorance.
Depressed people, ARE capable of thinking rationally and working things out. What they are incapable of is the motivation. This is something that needs to come from the person themself, however sometimes they need a "Kick up the arse" to knock some sense into them.

I am not downing depression as a mental illness, Nor am I saying people who have commited suicide are evil people. What I stick to, is that it IS selfish. There are reasons, there are unbearable circumstances, emotions, situations. HOWEVER Depression CAN be beaten. Even the most severe forms. It IS a selfish thing to leave everyone behing to pick up your mess, to destroy their lives for the sake of yours instead of working hard to make things better, sometimes even just getting up and carrying on.

I have not attacked this thread. Merely stated my opinion on the matter. As you have stated yours to me.

People need honesty and real advice because they need to realise that A) They are not alone, B) They have a problem and need to DO SOMETHING about it.

Depression is awful. But so are a lot of things.

I'm sure this has already been stated, but depression is an chemical imbalance in the brain. not just being sad and mopey, but clinically depressed. believe me, i used to be depressed. usually people grow out of it, but it takes years. meds help. being depressed sucks, it's like there is a cage on your emotions. you are trapped in a deep, dark hole. it feels like life is stupid and there is no point living, nothing is important or interesting, but you just keep dragging your feet on and on waiting for the bad feeling to go away. and it does.

Suicide can be selfish if it is cowardly. But some suicides are just because you feel so numb, nothing matters. It's not selfishness. It's inability to feel or understand feeling. Even if you know you're going to hurt people, the words are just meaningless. The line between right and wrong evaporates. You feel like you're already dead.

Depression varies in its many forms.

I was born into a family with this chemical imbalance, and tried for many years to fight off its effects. But I could not.

How am I to alter my genetic code?

I can't, nor could anyone else.

"I have not attacked this thread. Merely stated my opinion on the matter. As you have stated yours to me."

^ I completely agree and admit it was wrong of me to consider both yours and Bob's opinions an attack.

"People need honesty and real advice because they need to realise that A) They are not alone, B) They have a problem and need to DO SOMETHING about it."

^ I also agree. This is exactly what this thread promoted and I believe we have all been side-tracked.

"I know perfectly well the effects of depression and the effects of more severe mental illness, therefore I am NOT in a position of ignorance."

In no way do I consider you ignorant and never made such an implication.

"Now remember I did say there are exceptions where some can't help it, but I would bet anything that for the most part they are few and far between....I dwell in depression daily, how can one not when you take a serious look at the world"

I agree that it may be a smaller number than those who do not contain a chemical imbalance. But few and far between is quite excessive. That would be a very hazardous bet based on your own opinion. Nevertheless, it is your opinion and a respectable one at that.

As for your 'form' of depression. I hardly consider your depression to be the same type of depression from which I suffer. In no way do I mean to belittle what you feel. I know even the smallest amount of it can be extremely hard with which to deal. But you cannot obtain a genetic defect from looking at the world. (I do not know your background and have no idea how you came by your depression so this statement is based on the information given to me.)

As for suicide being selfish. Let me give you an example.

Consider a young lady, born into a tramatic world. Her mother is a drunk, her father is abusive, her older brother is dead, and her younger in jail. Her family lacks the money and will for that matter to help her through her mental illness. After many years of abuse and neglect she commits suicide.

Do you consider this selfish?

I don't. Very sad, but not selfish.

The orginal post supports the very opinions you are bringing to my doorstep.

"My advice for what’s its worth is to accept you have a problem and learn as much as can from all different sources to give you a balanced view. Talk to others, (this site is one), seek help and don’t be ashamed. There’s a life out there somewhere that’s worth living you can either give up or go looking for it."

^ Exactly. I would like to believe we will all be shutting our computers down with those words running through our minds.

This is a statement of fact on my experiences of depression.

I was diagnosed with severe clinical depression in 2003/4. It was a massive blow to me, and yes, I felt terrible and my physical health was severely impaired. I was hospitalized for severe mental illness, initially for depression. During my 8 month hospitalization I was moved to different units due to my illness. I was diagnosed with personality disorders and many mental illnesses, Most of which were completely wrong due to prejudices and how ill I really was. It was rubbish, it was awful. But that's life.

I understand the implications of severe depression and suicidal tendencies from my own personal experiences. I am now working with my community team again regularly and I have to have 4/5 therapy sessions a week along with extensive family meetings. I have been with my team for 3 years now and am currently undergoing tests for a diagnosis of Bipolar Disorder 1. This as I am sure you are aware has the severe depression as well as the manic highs.

That was not meant to be a sob story nor do I view my life to have been worse than anyone elses, It is just the best way to explain my experiences and my understanding of mental illness as a whole

As for the young lady. Yes I do think it is sad, and an increbily awful experience of life. But, I stand by my opinion that suicide is selfish. For every example you can give me of a terrible life, there will always be another one which is worse. There are many people facing those sorts of experiences who appreciate life, make something of their own lives and go on to be wonderful people.

There are people living in civil wars, the children who are forced to fight in armies at a horrendously young age, who appreciate every day they are given.

Genetics can be rubbish sometimes. But, as you said, we cannot change them. Therefore we must learn to live with them. Hope for the best, and make what we can of our lives.

Depression can be beaten, even the most severe forms.

I belive suicide is selfish, in nearly all forms. I do not condemn those who commit, nor do I look on them as evil nasty people. But I do think they were selfish. I do think it is one of the cruelest things one person can do to another, well, through themselves.

Katie - All your points have validity and you certainly have a significant amount of knowledge about depression.

But there is equality in all things. For every case of selfish suicide you can give me there will always be one that wasn't. This is simply how it is.

Sorry Bob, Katie but I never accept your "selfish accusations". Bob I believe you have lost your father or some other close relative? So I can understand why you feel that way.
I came across another woman in a similar position and I can empathize with the way you feel but not what you think.

Technically you may have looked up a dictionary. And found that being selfish is putting your needs above someone else’s. This view is very narrow when applied to suicide.

(Putting) - relates to a conscious reasoned decision.

That’s where the argument falls down. Because reasoning is almost always impaired well beyond what would be required to make a logical decision. It’s like telling someone who has Alzheimer’s disease that they are thoughtless for forgetting your name.

Falling in love is a similar situation. In pump the chemicals and the feelings take over. Some people who look back on there failed relationships must think they were insane at the time. Maybe they were or were they just. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . selfish

I am simply trying to prove your point is not absolute. There are many cases of selfish suicide. But there are cases of unselfish suicide.

You win Bob its a selfish act.

Im sick of the felling afraid, sick of year in / year out going through this. If I was a little less of a coward and more selfish maybe there would be a light at the end of the tunnel.

Anyway you win

Nobody wins with suicide.

(No pun intended)

you're right there but some people are driven to it and can't stop.