Bad Poetry

You know with all the whining on this site about down votes and rude comments it occurs to me that no one on this site might be aware of how bad or good their poetry is. If everybody is afriad to vote or state how they actually feel then the only time a person will receive a vote is when the reader likes the poem,is just trying to be nice, or trying to score brownie points to get their poem rated favorably. I see less and less contructive criticism on this site and more and more complaining when it it is given. Ofcourse one reason that this my occur is that this site is filled with awful poetry. Now before the huffs and puffs of sophomoric indignation began to fall out of your lipss and the flames begin to fly I'll ask the budding good poet amongst you if this is really a shock. Having probably ruffled a good many feathers with the above and probably made a good many enimies in the process this seems like a good time to ask of you all a favor.
I never have pretended or aspired to be Walt Whitman, Ralph Waldo Emerson or any othe great poet. I've always knowen that those stars are outside my reach and as defeatist and self deprecating as this may sound I've always knowen my poems would never be great or even good. The best I have hoped for is; medicore,middle of the road,common. The kind of poems that ,while not producing a swell of emotion and love for their beauty, would not induce any great disgust or unitentional humor. So the favor I ask is followed the good poets and I mean the good ones as defined by the bar of other good poets through out history would please down rate my poems if need be and if the have the time pleasae explain in absoulote and brutel honesty no matter how unpalatable it may be why it's bad. I will not even ask you to refrain from rudness as long as you are using it to explain(intelligently) why a particular poems is bad. (ie no "hey a**hole this poem is bad because it sux0rz and your mother is a *****")
NOTICE:I post this here and not in the request to read write section because that is not the section that good poets make a habit of frequenting.

I would like to point out that just because you get criticized does not mean you are not literary material. If you don’t believe me google the author James Frey, and read the critics, Keep in mind that his book has already sold over four million copies. Even though I do not agree with his philosophy I enjoyed reading his work

Matt is talking about my poetry when he talks about the bad kind. =) haha.

anddddd. I never down vote.. well.. only in the comments! wooo. haha. but never do it.. so people can see the poem is horrid.

Matt would read one page.. and ''finish it later''. I wonder if he reads what I write him.. ha.

It seems that many of us want to define poetry in objective terms, and reduce this art to a simple science

There was a young poet that accused me of having a standard nice comment that would fit about any poem. I came back with the very harsh reply that though I believed her poem had great potential it would be classified by harsh critics as pimple poetry because of her redundant use of the word “and” She did not edit, and never asked for my opinion again

I like what Bob said, which if I got it right was basically an idea about how not everyone writes to be a great or respected poet, even if they could be capable of it in the eyes of others. Sometimes you just want to spew out a generic heartfelt 4b4 love poem that anyone would write...because, surprise surprise, most of us feel the same kinds of emotions from time to time and expressing those feelings in an intelligent and thought provoking way so harsh critics like the person who created this thread won't think you suck, is basically the last thing on your mind.

But in fairness we all have standards, and I don't like 95% of the poetry on here, even from people who seem to be well respected as writers, but then I don't like the beatles so opinions and assholes right?

In Britain right now, the big thing in poetry is freeform non rhyming work that is abstract to the max. These are the poems that are winning all the compitions and being published. I know a guy who hangs around with the writer in residence for Perth, which is a big city in Scotland, and he said that he knows personally some of the big winners in these things, and he knows for certain they don't write from the heart, but they write abstractly on purpose so as to not be understood, thus making themselves appear more intelligent.

If a person can honestly express themselves, levels of skill matter very little to me.

"...and he knows for certain they don't write from the heart, but they write abstractly on purpose so as to not be understood, thus making themselves appear more intelligent."

That depresses me, I have to say. I hate it when people think they have to use an unnecessarily complex vocabulary or purposefully messed up form in order to try to look "deep" and "cool." Sure, great poetry often takes a few read-throughs before it can really be appreciated, but if nobody can understand what you're saying... then why write publicly?

On another note, I checked out urbis.com, after someone mentined it above. I was totally surprised by the difference in general style between it and p&q. Looks like a lot of good, creative writers. I like! P&Q definitely wins when it comes to "community," though. I just opened an account at urbis and it feels like I'm floundering in deep water...

Oh, and Happy New Year, everyone!

I never intended this post to be insulting just honest.(but how often are those not one and the same?) For those that said something along the lines of"well it doesn't matter if you or him or her think it's good poetry is a hobby and a form of self expession ect ect.." yes i'll agree to that to an extent. If it is only a hobby then absoultly it's about expressing yourself and having fun,but isn't part of having a hobby about improving your ability,improving your skill. And while there may no absolutes in art it is certainly true that there are bench marks and standards. How is one to know if they are making better art in an enviroment where honest critisism is met with anger. I'll agree that yes if you were to compare the art of verse to other "hobbies" that young people or even adults take part in to pass free time then i'd say that yes poetry even poorly written would be amoung the better activities then many of these pasttimes (tv comes to mind). But the bottom line is poetry has standrads of beauty like all art, and in order to improve as a poet you must know where your poems are lacking. Much of this complaining is selfish because while not every one here wants to be a proffesional writer some do and so need guidence even if it's the hard edged kind. This wouldn't even really be questioned in most other forms of art. No one would ask that a high school students random doodles be looked upon as a work of art with as much significance and beauty as the mona lisa,or some random tune on a piano to be given as much praise as a composition by mozart(except maybe pretentious self delueded po-mo affeciandos). To do so degrades poetry as a whole. Art has standards. While the sentiment is certainly important for the creation of good art it is not sufficient to achieve it. Real art only starts off as a sysmbol of the artist sentiment then it transcends it,out grows it,devolpes an intent and meaning all its own. Good artist will search their own work for meaning. But either way there is good and bad in all art, so just because it comes from you,from your heart does not mean it's good.

there is no short cut to expirence at least people are writting poetry and they could be dimonds in the rough

you know, i agree with basicly all of you on here. there are millions(rough estimate since i have no idea how many members are on this site.. ) of young poets who write 'pimply poetry', and youknow what, there are older ones too. face it. i think everyone on this site has written a sappy love poem. but i also know that many of these inexperienced writers came on here to get support in writing, and to be and talk with others who enjoy writing as well.

I have many friends who love singing, and who, not to be mean, are not really good at it! but i love being with them talking about it because they and i share the same passion. its good getting support and a boost from others who are similar to you,. and i also know that many of these teens like myself are not the happiest people! and do not have the best of lifes, so this is where they can vent and talk and get support for those things as well. some others on here come here to write, because if they showed others their writing, they maybe would be laughed or shunned upon, because its to 'girly' or stupid.

They come here to be themselves, and to do what they love, write. i know that's why i come. sure i also come to get critcism on my work, to try to improve, i want to get better! i am not great, i know i am not, but i am hopingot become the best I can be.

Hum. i like writing on these threads. =]

This is a really interesting discussion, It really made me think since I have a lot of hobbys that most people would think of as artistic or creative,I am constantly trying to improve but for my own satisfaction not for what other people might think. When I sit down to draw or paint or write poetry the last thing on my mind is what someone else will think, My mind ,my heart and whatever skill I have just leads me. If it turns out that you like it great but if not I still get enjoyment out of putting part of myself down on paper.Sometimes I think people confuse honest comments with rude comments, I think you can give good feedback without offending people , a little tact.