Common poetry flaws.

My advice is to look at Crunkz credentials before you delete the poems that do not meet Crunkz’s standards

I think I might have touched on a hidden meaning in a few of my poems. Once a critic asked me what I was smoking when I wrote a line that was obviously mind blowing to him. I think I had smoked a pork butt earlier that day

Crunkz, I don't necessarily agree with some of what you say. Frankly, I don't think they apply to all. Quatrains don't suck. Many just don't write good ones. Rhymes and rhyme schemes don't suck, aren't bad, revolting, and childish. It just that a lot of people make rhymes and therefore rhyme schemes that do suck, that are bad, revolting, childish, but I take an expert rhymer and word smith over an abstract poet any day. And as far as your statement, "If you ever think of getting published or simply writing poetry in order to earn money, become famous, to share your poetry or to get girls, stop, because none of those things will happen," Although you kind of have a point, it does not apply to everybody, and I would count myself as one of those it does not apply to. Given the right opportunity, I could get published. I am "THAT GOOD". I could also earn money with poetry. If I had the proper contact, I could work for Hallmark right now, and if given the opportunity to be published and the resources, my book of romantic verses would sell. Once again, "I AM THAT GOOD!!!" And as far as getting girls through poetry, read my work, "I AM THAT GOOD!!!" I may not ever get to a 'widely' famous romantic poet. Mostly likely I'll end up getting involved in my other love the music industry, but given the right opportunity in the poetry venue, I would be successful, famous, and counted as one of the greatest romantic poets of our time, ask around, "I AM THAT GOOD!!!" I don't usually bring out my bravado (Muhammad Ali side) in the poetry arena, for my work speaks for itself, but i just had to put you up on things. The fact is, I am not, nor do I want to be, a modern poet, but rather I am a mixture of a classic romantic and street or slam poet. I agree with you a lot of poetry sucks, and a lot of those who try to rhyme can't, but don't lump everybody together. Everyone's poetry doesn't suck although there are those who need to realize that there's do, but don't put all poets under the same umbrella, it's not fair to the talented craftsmen and women who actually take pride in there work and have worked to excel at the craft and ever improve at their art, thank you!!!

well said robert!!!!!

Thanks for your opinion man, but I'm still popping my collar.

Oh yeah Crunkz, I popular on the ezboards too and a few other poetry site I post with. See, the reason why is simply my ability to write with artful eloquence, the flare I have for penning well crafted verse, and people comment often on my way with words. Now, I may never be big in the smarter than thou, pretentious world of the modern poetry elitist, with their need to be abstract and overly complex instead of just writing whatever they're writing well, effectively, but they not my audience. I not fond of abstract art or poetry. I believe, if you are going to paint a picture, paint it and paint it well, whether it be with a brush or with your words. The reason I have popularity is I write things that the reader can recognize as good. And you're my sonnets don't adhere to all the rules, but I'd rather focus on composing a great write than following every little rule and there a many probably more that you yourself know of in fact here the list;

1. The sonnet must consist of fourteen decasyllabic (Iambic) lines.
2. It must be rhymed in two systems, (a) the Octet, or first eight lines; (b) the Sestet, or last six lines.
3. In the octet, the first, fourth, fifth and eighth lines must rhyme together, and the second, third, sixth, and seventh must rhyme together.
4. The sestet may be on two rhymes or three, that is to say, the first, third and fifth lines must rhyme together, and the second, fourth and sixth; or the first, second and third with the third, fourth and fifth.
5. Words ending in "ty," "ly" and "cy" must not be used as rhymes whether in octet or sestet. This also applies to the pronoun "I" and to easy or over-worked rhymes such as "see," me," "be" and "day," "may," "play." "Be," "bee," "maybe,'' "sea," "see" and words ending in "cy' do not rhyme together, and must not be "rhymed" in either octet br sestet.
6. No sestet should contain a rhymed couplet or couplets, and a sestet may not end with a rhymed couplet. The reason for this is, that what virtually amount to three rhymed couplets have already been used in the octet, and a further couplet or couplets in the sestet thus become monotonous. The final rhymed couplet belongs exclusively to the Shakespearean sonnet and must not be used in a modern English sonnet in any circumstances.
7. The two rhymes of the octet must be on different combinations of consonants as well as on different vowel sounds. Thus a quatrain rhymed "sedge," "dodge," "lodge," "wedge," is as impermissible as a quatrain rhymed "brain," "rain," "wain," "fain."
8. Rhymes of the sestet must not be on the same combination of consonants nor on the same vowel sounds as those in the octet. Therefore if "fist," "brave," "drave," "mist" have been used in the octet, "list," "gave," "twist," "nave" must not appear in the sestet, nor must such rhymes appear even with a previously unused rhyme sound between them. The reason here, again, is the avoidance of monotony.
9. Double rhymes are best avoided altogether; but if used in an octet, they should not be repeated in a sestet, and a sestet with double rhymes should not be preceded by an octet with double rhymes. Mark Pattison holds that double rhymes are inadmissible, but we should not lay this down for a hard and fast rule, though we think that if used, they should be used very sparingly.
10. The fourteen lines of a sonnet may be absolutely smooth and equable, or they may contain an occasional elision or redundant syllable. They should be ruled rather by accent than by mere beat, but in no case may there be a line or lines which cannot be read as decasyllabic without difficulty or hesitation.
11. Full pauses should never be employed after the first word in a line, or at the end of the first, second, third, fifth, sixth or seventh line of the octet, or at the end of the first or fifth line of the sestet.
12. More than one full period in a single line, or more than two or three full periods, or colon pauses placed elsewhere than at the ends of lines, are a defect.
13. While the sonnet must have unity, there must be a clear break between the octet and the sestet. It has been held that the thought or mood should be led up to or opened in the first four lines of the octet and fully unfolded by the second four lines. There is nothing against this alleged rule, but failure definitely to observe the first part of it cannot be considered a blemish. Failure to observe the second part of it, however, is a serious blemish. There are occasions upon which the octet content may be allowed to overflow into the first line of the sestet; but such overflow should never take up more than a part of the first sestet line. When the octet content overflows into the second line of the sestet, the proper sonnet system begins to be destroyed, while a poem in which the octet content is carried further than the second line of the sestet ceases to be a sonnet.
14. The sestet of a sonnet should have a clear and independent beginning of its own and constitute a separate short poem of and in itself, though arising out of, developing and bringing to a full conclusion the first or octet-poem. The sestet should never be inferior in force or beauty to the octet, and preferably it should excel the octet in these regards. It need not, however, and indeed should not invariably be at its loftiest in the final line, which must not suggest strain or magniloquence on the one hand, nor have the effect of epigram on the other.
15. There can be only one legitimate break or turn or pause in a sonnet, namely, that between the octet and the sestet. The breaking up of the octet into two separate poems by its quatrains, and of the sestet into two separate poems by its tercets, cannot be countenanced, at any rate in one and the same sonnet.
16. The subject matter of a sonnet must be emotional or reflective, or both. Mere descriptions of scenery, or recitals of events, or laudations of the beauty of persons, however admirably done, are not sufficient. They may be used for the content of the octet; but in the sestet following such octet content there must be developed a passion or emotion sufficient to lift the poem as a whole out of the region of word-painting into that of exalted poetry.

Sonnets have been written with the avowed purpose of creating sheer music and beauty, free of appeal to the emotions or moral nature. Objection is taken to these on the ground that they are deficient in doctrinal suggestion or quality. We agree up to a point. At the same time it seems probable that beauty, beautifully expressed, has a doctrinal force, and when they are not too fantastically conceived, which is their common demerit, exercises in this kind may attain marked excellence.

A kind of sonnet of description and observation combined with humorous or cynical commentary has been put forward by certain modern writers. It is clear that such sonnets can in no circumstances amount to high poetry, and therefore, while sometimes entertaining, they are negligible as contributions to sonnet-literature.
17. A sonnet must not be dramatic or exclamatory in its diction; it must not be overburdened with interrogative lines or sentences; it must not contain quotations from other sonnets or other poems; it must not begin or end with a Christian name and surname; it must be in English throughout and entirely free from slang, cant, and foreign words and phrases, Americanisms, dialect, Greek, Latin, Romany, uncouth place names; technical and scientific nomenclature, and names with unpoetic associations, such as "gramaphone," "telephone," "cinematograph."
18. It must also be free from split infinitives, compound words, italicised words or phrases, words or phrases in capital letters (other, of course, than the personal pronoun "I," which, again, must be used sparingly); inverted sentences, phrases and sentences in which words are obviously removed from their natural places in order to eke out rhyme or measure; iterations of the possessive pronoun "my," or of the particles, or of the same conjunction; and it should not have too many lines beginning with "and."
19. The precise poetic meaning of every word and phrase must be clear and unambiguous; there must be no confusion or obscurity of thought or idea; the metaphors, similies, and analogies must be true for the imagination; ornament must not be obtruded; the symbolism must at least have the appearance of freshness; the "fancy" must not be far-fetched or over-elaborated, and mere "conceits" must be avoided.
20. It has been pointed out by Wordsworth that a large part of the language of poetry does not differ from the language of prose; and this dictum is often set up as an excuse for uninspired metrical writing. Obviously, however, the shorter the poem the less apparent should be its prosaisms, and in a sonnet they should not be apparent at all.
21. By the processes of time and the operation of accident English words and phrases and idioms which are perfectly sound of themselves occasionally become degraded or vulgarised. When this has happened such words, phrases or idioms should not be employed in a sonnet. As an example of what we mean, we may take the last line of Shakespeare's sonnet, 144: "Till my bad angel fire my good one out." Since Shakespeare's day, to "fire out" has acquired a vulgar, comic or burlesque meaning. So that in sonnets angels good or bad can no longer "fire out." Another instance is the adjective "glad"--a fine poetic word, which, however, can be no longer prefixed to "eye" or "hand," because "glad eye" and "glad hand" are now vulgar expressions. Even statements which remotely suggest, or are calculated to recall such vulgarisms, must be avoided in a sonnet. "Thy feet are cold," for example, will not do, because it might suggest the cant phrase "cold feet." It is presumed, of course, that the reader of sonnets has not "come to mock," but he has a right to expect that he will not be given verbal invitations to mockery.

I'll gladly skip a few of those rules to write something enchanting and eloquent. And I realize my Iambic Pentameter is often off, but I write more to flow with rhythm than syllable accent (the accenting of syllable from soft to hard). The fact is I'm popular due to talent level, craftsmenship, and the ability to captivate the reader. And as for as my liberal use of commas, it to guide the reader as to how it would read if being spoken. As a friend and fan whom I use to work with once said, I write like I speak, and that their it the intent. My advice to you is continue to strive to be the type of writer,
poet, you want to be and work to be the best you can in that, at that. Me, I am a amorous poet, with irreverently satirical (humorous) and street tendencies (influence). No matter what the genre is, even if the reader doesn't like that particular vain of poem, a well written, well done poem will always get you respect, can always be appreciated. PEACE!!!

I believe I am fairly opened minded when it comes to poetic license. To be honest Crunkz a four year old Lesbian poet with your vocabulary does not appeal to my objective sense of reasonable reality, but I am sure there is a subtext in your profile. Also I am a big fan of free verse poetry with hidden meaning, but I don’t feel comfortable competing with the masters yet.
I believe that the poets that appeal to me the most are the philosophical poets that attempt to deliver obvious truths eloquently in an art form. The balance of breaking new ground within strict guidelines is difficult but not impossible

Reading and interpreting good poetry may take time. The poem that I read of yours that really stuck in my mind Bob is “Framed” I believe it had layers and subtext. If you don’t you may be one of your toughest critics. I am constantly learning from these discussions and find them entertaining as well

luv ya Bob. Excellent points!!!

Truely I think that you are totally wrong! Not only do you not have the right to judge people's poetry, but who cares what you have to say! Poetry is writing what you feel, and if you feel something that you can't put into a ryhming poem then you can't do that! And some people here are just starting to write poetry so don't judge them! They don't know any better, I understand the grammar part because that drives me totally insane!
And yes some people on here are just writing because they think it's cool, you can't do that and that is why there poetry sucks. They don't have passion, you have to be able to feel what you writing. And that's my opinion!

poetry is your own expression. It's emotional, not grammatical

ummm... # 13 is wrong I get lots of girls with my poems....
ha...
Um another then about poems is that you need to be on topic, sometimes when people rhyme they rhyme without meaning and I hate it so much!
Anyways that's all I got...

I thinketh I loveth number twelve...eth.

I was going to make a note about how Sonnets don't technically need to be in iambic pentameter, only if they're Shakespearean, (and even he stretched the rules sometimes) but someone else already mentioned that.

Seriously, interesting post - both the primary topic and the discussion following. I love how people each have their own ideas of what poetry should be... it keeps thing fresh and interesting. So, I say, on with the controversy!

i think i's great u r tryin to help ppl write poems, but to be honest if u dont write poetry to impress anyone as long as ur happy with ur work isn't that good enough. not everyone is a poetic genius but one can only do one's best.

everyone has different opinions on poetry so please dont be so narrow minded.

and before u post another message, this time having a go at my poems, DONT BOTHER. i enjoy writing my poems, i am happy with my progress n if it's not ur cup of tea, im not forcing u to read it, i just ask that ppl respect others best efforts.