There is a Light.

I am a very intellectual person generally. I think it's very common in these times to analyze things that present themselves in life and to put the emotional reaction to the side, it seem safe and powerful.

We box things up and name them, store them away, cut them up into smaller sections to "deal" with them....

For the longest time the default expression on my face was a frown, verging on a scowl, and that was just walking down the street. I would look at Mothers shouting at the poor children and apply psychology to it to explain it away....I would see young people barely able to walk from being so drunk and I would apply sociology to it and think of family roles and bahavioural psychology that were the contributing factors.

Lately, there have been several pieces of music that have opened me up emotionally so much so that I get upset thinking about how mentally stern I was...how unfeeling and clinical....

I don't really have a point, I guess I'm wondering if many of you get where I'm coming from? Are in an age of reason over the heart? And if so, what effects does that have on the world around us as wars rage and people suffer?

This is an excellent topic. I'm sure I'll only barely scratch the surface.

First of all, I'm glad to hear of your "opening." Kind of like breathing in fresh air, mm?

I think the danger of being too "clinical," as you say, is that it doesn't really let you empathize. I mean, everybody walking around on this planet probably has something "wrong" with them, but if you reduce themonly to causes and effects, perscriptions and pathologies... when do you start caring about them? I think love for other people is sort of a wonderful form of irrationality. It's realizing that people are messed up, and deciding to overlook it. Love, sweet love - the only thing there's just too little of : ). We could always use some more.

Emotion can have a dramatic variety, of course. Love can turn to hate, caring to destruction. People kill from jealousy, rage, etc. Emotion can be anything, but it's always... alive, in some sense, compared to stale categorizing.

You mention wars, in your post, and that's where I think the biggest paradox is. Some people fight, because they are angry - emotion. But there are thousand of others for whom it's easier to think about the reality of war if they think of it as "conflicting factions, two forces who, biologically speaking, will get angry, and according to the studies of sociology have always fought." I think de-huminizing war is a great danger, in this time. It allows us to separate ourselves from it, and therefore brush off any responsibility.

I am not against rationality, however. It's my idea that rationality can line up with the highest feelings of emotion - like Aristotle's idea of the highest intellectual souls delighting in the highest forms of pleasure. I don't think they are incompatible, necessarily. There's always hope for the future.

I don't really have a point, I guess I'm wondering if many of you get where I'm coming from? Are in an age of reason over the heart? And if so, what effects does that have on the world around us as wars rage and people suffer?

^^^

You say you don't really have a point, and the next moment you ask a question, a question that leads to something, a line of thought, an analytical frame.

You say your analytical, clinical. Well, maybe you are built that way? It isnt wrong to be so, I think. Only when it is overdone is it really harmful.

We mustnt become robots, who do not consider emotion, just plain facts and figures. A lady, beaten up everyday and abused, goes on to kill that husband, and is sentenced to life imprisonment. But, arguably, she was justified, wasn't she? Thats the emotion side. The reason side- well, she murdered. Law says murder equals life imprisonment. My uncle, had a bad temper, beat a little child walking on the road to a pulp, and to death. He was sentenced to life. So it would be unfair not to sentence the lady, wouldnt it? Thats Pure Reason.

Both, in their pure form, are harmful. The trick lies in balancing their extremeties..

When a child is told if it is okay for a person to rob when his wife is dying of cancer and he doesnt have money to pay, he'd say NO. He thinks black and white.

Ask a little older, mature man, and he might say that it wouldnt be very wrong.

Slowly, we begin to understand that human emotion and human reason should not exist by themselves. Complement one with the other, and there you have a beautiful world.

As for the post above me, who says emotion and reason can unite at the highest level, it is very very true. That would be the state I would want to live in, but I don't know if I would ever attain such a mental level.

As for you, you're opening up. That truly is wonderful. And you're a poet. That brings with it a lot of true hope for opening up your emotional side. I think you should really look within you and try to sympathize and empathize with people. But careful, dont over do it, you might just rock the boat into the salty puddle of tears. :D

Take care mate, And I love this new picture of yours....looks much more "emption-y" compared to black n white.

Dhaval

Well what a post...

You know they say "Music quells the savage beast"

So I am not surprised that you would feel emotional after hearing it...

You do not need to fret about these things because we need rational people to apply psychology, sociology, criminology, sociology, law, victimology and any other subjects that help explain human failings...

So the thread might be pointless, but your post was emotionally astute...

I can really relate to this ,I studied Social work,so it seemed like you ,I would look at situations and judge them by what I had learned ,what had affected them psychologically? and so on. I t was really poetry that made me realize that feeling is just as important as thinking,now I openly admit that I cry ,I hurt , I get angry, but I can relate to my fellow man much better because we are all so much alike really.I feel that I am a much more rounded person by allowing myself to be an emotional ,caring person and to realize it is a sign of strength not weakness.

"As to "Are in an age of reason over the heart? Most wars are based on sectarian violence due to religious intolerance, so for that reason I don't think we are."

That's an interesting point. I have to wonder, though, how often emotional values like religion are used as tools by people with more power, to incite the general population against a logicaly chosen target. I should learn more about this sort of thing. But yes, it seems like wars encompass the devestating sides of both cold rationality and furious emotion.

I think, for many of us, and I count most of you in the age group to which i belong, which is, let us say, young [between 16 and 30...ooh how selective I am] we are alive in an age where nothing is solid anymore, either morally, scientifically or philisophically.

We live in an age of everything, or science melding into mysticism through quantum physics, where children are taught phychology and where religious diversity is at an all time high.

I think, to be an intelligent person in such age it very trying because to understand the world in the way that most smart people like to do, we have to search through so much information from so many random sources, it must take a certain analytical frame of mind.

I mean, if i had reacted in an emotional way, without much logical thought to new theories and ideas I'd come across, I'd be a devout Roman Chatholic, and then a Satanist, and then a Pagan, and then a Budhist etc....And woe to all you if that had happened for I'd not likely be on this website searching through writing..and still very interested in other peoples views.

So yeah, that is why I think many people of our geneeration are overly intellectual, it's perhaps kinda needed to start with just to get through all the options...and then, when you get a bit older and you have your preferred theories etc...you can relax and start to feel again...

Very good points, Kevin. I especially liked what you had to say about what it takes to be "smart" in this time. There's such an overwhelming availability of information, and yet all knowledge has gotten so ridiculously specialized. It's like you can't just be a scientist, or a philosopher, or a musican... you have to choose between becoming a quantum physicist, OR a Kantian philosopher, OR a thermonuclear engineer, OR a concert pianist who specializes in Grieg and Liszt, etc... You have to study your whole life, it seems, just to scratch the surface of knowledge, and woe to those who try to be well-rounded ; )

I don't know if I've ever been totally analytical. I think I am more so than I generally tend to admit.

I think in many cases Abby you are right, people do tend to give up the passionate searching of their youth, most likely because they are too busy working and dropping a litter of Kids.

At the same time though, there is only so long you can look at questions of life before, at least this is what I've found, you come to the understanding that the more you know the less you can say you know for certain. And so, without really giving up in a defeatist way, you kind of let things be without even closing your eyes to what might be....this is how I feel anyway...

I was a massive reducer in my youth, taking something like friendship or love and cutting it up into pieces to understand it, but of course in the disection of the thing, I was left with incomplete parts that did not confer to me any understanding of the whole, if that makes sense....

Expect my email to you soon..I want to have proper time for it...

"Everybody seems to need to fill up life with some sort of meaning- it is a self-preservation thing."
I admire self-preservation. I would like to think at the age of 51 I have learned when not to run against the wind

In the original topic "There is a light" it seemed that some music caused Kevin to see past the egocentric illusion that there is no power greater than self

It has been my belief that there is an external energy that provides a favorable environment for intelligent design to progress

It does seem to me that it is overly clinical to say the only reason we progress is because miscopied genes are more likely to survive if the random mutations are in line with the environment.

No life in the world as we know it could survive without the light that can be traced to one star we call our sun.

The light can be a metaphor for truth, life, warmth, love, sun, and stability among other things.

Hey Micheal,

good to see you active on the boards again!

I wasn't really talking about the feeling that there is a power greater than myself, as I don't believe that, I think you misinterpreted my post. I was merely talking about being intellectual in my reactions rather than emotional, or a mix of the two and how this may be natural expression of the times we live in and how people cope with that.

I can see you hinting at the big Godman in your post, and I don't see how thats relevant, though you can express what you like of course.

"It does seem to me that it is overly clinical to say the only reason we progress is because miscopied genes are more likely to survive if the random mutations are in line with the environment."

Come on man, you just won't let this go with me will you? You always post something about how stupid I am to believe that we evovled from simple origins by the process of natural selection, even in a thread that is not about such things!!

Thank you Frooghe

"Come on man, you just won't let this go with me will you? You always post something about how stupid I am to believe that we evolved from simple origins by the process of natural selection, even in a thread that is not about such things!!"

Sorry I misinterpreted your post. I did think that "There is a Light" was a little out of character for you in view of the Christian phrase "The Light of the World"

My hope is that we could still agree on how music might change our biochemistry without being overly clinical, and ponder the question "Are we in an age of reason over the heart," and what effect that has on the enlightened soul?

Is there any way to remove the stigma on faith, hope, and love?

Ah, I see. Well the title of the thread was kinda a reference to the light of emotion inside us all, and also a head nod to Nick Cave, who has a song by that title.

Micheal, we can agree wholeheartedly that music does amazing things to the human body, particularly if there is a strong emotional reaction, we need not debate that.

I am not sure there is a way to remove the stigma on faith, from my points of view anyway. I have no such qualms about love and hope, but yes, for me there is a stigma to faith, religious faith that is. I just don't understand the belief in God, it doesn't make sense, and it makes me doubt and wonder about people for whom it does make sense.

Man, the last two days on this site have taught me so much about better ways to communicate with people...I am learning so much...

Cheers for that....

^glad to hear it : )

Thinking of Micheal's comment about "things greater than oneself..." I don't see why that need strictly be a religious thing. People can think that the force of love, or hope, or humanity as something that is greater than and extends outside of your body. Even if you think of something like love as being between two people... that's a force that's greater than just yourself. It's the idea of a whole being greater (or at least altered from) the sum of its parts.

I too agree that music does amazing things to the human body. I mean, I'm a musician and have been for 11 years. And as for religion, I am not sure...I was raised a Roman Catholic and I don't believe in the religion at all. Mind you, I still go to church and all because I'm the organist. And I also wonder about those who do believe in God. I'm only 18, but I'm trying to find something that is true in this world. And that's why I'm all for the science proposed theories of creation. They just make more sense.

"I am not sure there is a way to remove the stigma on faith, from my points of view anyway. I have no such qualms about love and hope, but yes, for me there is a stigma to faith, religious faith that is. I just don't understand the belief in God, it doesn't make sense, and it makes me doubt and wonder about people for whom it does make sense."

I admit there are many things in religion that do not make sense. The religious figure that instituted Christianity was crucified by the religious authorities of His day. I have not fully done the research on why many prefer the common-era to the Christian- era, but in the dawning of the age of Aquarius it is hard to deny that the influence of ancient religious figures and perceptions have altered the way reality is viewed. Some perceive music as a universal language

I also must admit that I have perceived these discussions as a good place to debate. Yet it is also enjoyable to see harmony and understanding in the balance. The harmony between art, science, and religion have left us with much to be desired.

A nail can be a tool or a weapon

It would not be wise to curse the sun when it burns my skin

"Lately, there have been several pieces of music that have opened me up emotionally so much so that I get upset thinking about how mentally stern I was...how unfeeling and clinical...."

I would not worry too much about it. you probably just got a hold of some bad weed, I assure you will be unfeeling and clinical again in no time

[Micheal, I edited this post back to the way it was, where you say I'm using drugs, if you can't stand by your words, don't write them in the first place]

Micheal, it seems that even when I make a thread in which I try to be open and honest, which isn't easy in a public forum like this, you still seem intent on reducing my words to the assumption that I am a drug user.

I find this really offensive, and a bad reflection on your character, given the nature of this thread.

But once again I won't delete your insulting post, or even give you a penalty point. You have my email. Don't do this again Micheal, I'm warning you.

Moderated by : Kevin Murray

Good work Kevin, Mod forbid anyone could stumble across something worth reading

Getting back to the topic.

I think most of us agree that we are living in an age of reason over emotion, generally speaking that is. And it seems most you agree that given the vast amount of information throw at us everyday, it's almost expected that people will have that side to them, the analyzing side, just to deal with it all.

What I'm interested in now is what kinds of things people feel break down the intellectual mind to a more emotional one. Music definately for me...what about you guys?

Good answer! I'd never thought of that one, but you are right.

When I was younger, I used to believe that people who were mentally ill were actually spiritually open people who could see mystical truths normal folk could never understand, and they were viewed as mentally ill only because the truth they were speaking was so unusual and ahead of their time we could not accept it.

I know this is not true now, but at the time I was fascinated by anyone with any kind of mental issue...

Oh I know that Angelina, I'm a musician too, and when I'm writing and creating music, it's not really about emotions, except maybe when i sing.

Listening to music I've not made is different though, and that is where my mind lets go, and if the music is special, i have an emotional reaction.

I agree with you Abby.

I also find that the things I am the most emotionally attached to, like people I love don't ever well translate into poetry. I think it's because i need a decent level of detachment to write well, and with matter of strong feeling, I can't do that...and the writing shows that in the lack of understanding...it's just emotions written down with little or no insight..

It's hard to think well when you are feeling strongly about anything. You can see evidence of this in some of the posts in this thread * wink wink*.

Ps, where is my e-mail woman!!...huh, I know I said take your time, but I didn't mean it!!

Reading. books or poetry work. Some of the time i'm not even digesting the words, but just reading and getting out of whichever trains of thought.. i do this before i goto bed sometimes. But it's always better to actually feel the story at the same time, too

talking to certain people as well

'Ah, I see. Well the title of the thread was kinda a reference to the light of emotion inside us all, and also a head nod to Nick Cave, who has a song by that title.'

'There is a light that shines over this city tonight
There is a light that shines over this city tonight
Let it shine, let it shine, let it shine

What are the little kids gunna do, man?
The little kids are all standing around
What are the kids doing, do you know?
They are looking to the Sky, Daddy-O."
Nick Cave,

When I am overly clinical I am tempted to reduce Love to a chemical reaction somewhat like the heartless fire ball in the sky that provides the warmth that makes the rhythm of the heart possible?

Does anyone have a problem with personifying Light, or Love?

Who is that mysterious beautiful light?

Oh Barf...

I think I will vomit from this spectacle...Lol.

I think Noir is more honest and emotion that most of you, and I say that as someone who doesn't particularly like him.

Constant sarcasm and mockery, though not an obvious sign of sensitivity and emotional depth, is, when you think about it, a clear indicator.

Think of the passion he displays in most of his posts, think of the efforts he goes to to argue, mock and stir things up. You may think him misguided or immature, that is fair enough, but what you have is an articulate and passionate person with acute emotions which react strongly to other people, and in a manner which suggests to me a very sensitive person...because, you'd have to be to be soooo effected by people that you'd respond to them so.

Frooghe, Ddavid, Asha and the dude with the fake 3rd eye, however, don't seem to possess even a half of the energy and passion of Noir, not the sensitivity or reasoning, and you can see that from the complete lack of attention they pay to the actual words of other people.

Noir, though negative, actually reads what people say, and then of course mocks it, usually...but he pays attention.

You got him wrong, or maybe I do.

Read my post again Ddavid, with your eyes open.

and Ps, you don't represent anyone else on this site, so don't speak for them, except your fake accounts.

Well lets not get caught up debating which fake eye it is eh?

Distrubing what peace Illuminati...

I am sorry but am I not to assume "freedom of speech"...

I stated what I felt, now I have utter respect for Micheal, but I stated the obvious...

I have a right to say what I want, and I am blunt in my words. I give respect, but it is easily taken away, when someone plays a game that seems to better his favor...

If Kevin, will give me a penalty...I will wholeheartedly accept. It funny how many people are offended, by just a few words.

PS: Illumanti, I'm a person who likes people to be in a fair game. What I don't like is someone making accounts just to prove his point.

Micheal I do apologize, but I like saying what I feel, it really helps you inwardly...Very Freeing...

Kevin: Thank you for your profiling, but let these people gang up on me. It's funny plus I find it amazing how many of ddavid's posts and his other accounts are usually soo intuned with each other...He must be really fast at loging of then going to another account to say his peace...Lol.

Lol...

Not you!!

"Distrubing what peace Illuminati... You see there is your problem right there And please save me from your freedom speech nonsense you need to Earn that"

Wow I need to earn my own freedom and right to say what I want without hurting someone. This is the internet "Illumanti"...Freedom here is rife...Duh!

I was born free, can eat freely, can smoke freely, can have sex freely, can play freely, can write poetry freely, so I am guessing I have to earn those too...?

Illumanti, I am guessing you are what your name states, a secret person bent on making everyone abide by the rules you create....

Funny!!

"His is the internet "Illumanti"...Freedom here is rife...Duh! No this is a website and nothing in life is free not even speech You want freedom of speech educate yourself to have one like Martin Luther King and so on"

Really so if I want to have freedom of speech, I have to be in a clositered society where inequality is rife...Martin Luther King, Gandhi and so on, had already freedom of speech, but the fought to protect it rather than earn it...Again Duh!

This is actually funny for you to equate this poetry discussion to that of civil liberties and human rights. It's funny but this seems so much more miniscule than that.

"Wrong again I am a poet with some understanding nothing more or less"

Actually we all are poets, writers, essayists, literary artists etc...Also I find it hard that you have "some understanding" but hey to each their own.

I am a poet as well, and a debater in some sense. This place seems or is made out to be a street fight, one hit KO...Kind of pathetic don't ya think.

I have my freedom, all I have to do is protect it...Like Martin Luther King. Becayse I have a dream...Lol.

Hmm I am guessing I am kinda in one...

Ddavid: I think me and Illumanti, are cleared with our discussion...But, I find it amusing that you backtrack to your thread several times in several posts.

It seems to me that you have an illicit grudge against Kevin...Just for the fact he is a mod...And I detect a hint of jealousy.

Face it, I may come across as a sarcastic know it all, but at least I have the sense to back my own truth...

I wish they would make an IP detector and fast....

Frooghe: There is a saying "The Gods always love watching the foolish rebellious farmer..." It's an african saying...Although it is in Amharic, I translated it in a way, you will understand

Guess what it means...It applies to this whole situation.

*bangs head on wall*

So, um. Back to the topic: There are several cases where emotion and reason seem to be at odds but I think it's interesting to think about those situations where the two strengthen each other.

In particular right now, I'm thinking of the too-often-ignored study of philosophy. "Reason free of passion," Aristotle said. But... think of the word itself. Philosophy. Love of wisdom. Even the abstract, supposedly entirely conceptual and cognitive area of philosophy is entwined with the concept of love - possibly the strongest of all emotions. I think of philosophy as a drive to understand, as an "emotion" or will that is put to the project of reason.

Apart from philosophy... music (especially classical), art, nature, smells, and stories in general make me emotional. Er... I guess I'm just an emotional person, acutally. Maybe someday my hormones will desert me, and I'll be ready for some hard-core reasoning ; ). Until then... I'm smelling all the roses, tasting all the wine, sowing my wild... er, no. You get the picture. Taste, touch, live. It's a beautiful world.

Wow..Siybellene that is a good post..

I can kind of see where philosophy can be a contradiction and irony on it's own.

But it seems that emotion will always be there even with vast amounts of intellect. It seems that "emotion" is an aspect of our mental life and is more important to the quality and meaning of our existence. They are what make life worth living, or sometimes ending.

So it is a contradiction to seperate the two...

I think I should bang my head as well seeing as this will never die down...

Asha: Go read my earlier posts, it seems you have miscalculated, so please and I say this will the utmost respect...Get a life!

Jesus Almighty, some body (Asha)has a crush on Kevin...I don't think he swings that way...Lol..

Oh as for your question...There are varying kinds of truth, but I believe that truth is nothing more than a variable in our existance. If you really think about it, it's love that is the "light"

I am under no protection Ddavid...I just know how to say my insults right....Duh!

I think you need to improve vastly in your argumentatitive, debating, spelling, structure and grammer skills.

Do that and maybe people won't say that you use fake accounts...K!

Back to the subject:
Actually I already offered my point...But hey y'all continue now.