Religion and The Why of it.

Kevin,

there is no theoretical logic to be given if you have seen it with your own eyes.

the dying would most likely be the experts on the subject because we havent died yet and they are experiencing it at that time.

and our opinions realy doesnt matter but Gods word does...

i feel that is where you need to be researching.

read the book of John.
great insight there.

Kelsi...

Why shouldn't our opinions matter?
If god is really so kind and merciful as he is potrayed to be, why does every story show him as being an evil dictator type?
Didn't he give us free will?

Is it not our free will to not believe in him?
And, if that is so, then why are we punished for exercising these gifts he has given us?
If for doing what we believe sends us to an eternity in hell, then why not just turn us into mindless zombies that do all he wants?

I suppose this is my largest problem with the typical religion. Doesn't the bible say[and correct me if I'm wrong] "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth," then later proceed to preach mercy, love and forgiveness to all?
And we wonder why people these days are so hypocritical.

I find this question hard to answer because as hard as I try to believe in God and as much as I want to, I simply can't.
The reasons why I want to believe in God, I will explain.
First - There's emptiness in my life, and rather than fill it with unhealthy and impractical things, I want to fill it with something good. Or maybe just socially accepted .....
Second - I find it hard to go through life without believing in anything at all, and I'm too lazy and uneducated to form a religion of my own and my family is Christian, so I'm a follower I suppose .. in a way.
Third - I want something good in my life that I can helps me feel like I have morals and something to live by. I don't want to live FOR God, I don't believe in serving him, but if Heaven does exist, I'd like to go there in the afterlife.
And Lastly - I had a dream one time on the Ides of March and the last thing that happened was a man dressed in a white cloak with a shadowed face came up behind me, took me in his arms and said ... "everything will be okay if you just believe." -- I've never really been the same since.

I don't know if it's worth it or not, but I don't really see any such harm in religion as long as you don't go and force it on others or discriminate another person's views ...

after all, we're all trying to climb the same mountain, we'll all see the same view ... it's just how we get there that's different.

"Why shouldn't our opinions matter?
If god is really so kind and merciful as he is potrayed to be, why does every story show him as being an evil dictator type?
Didn't he give us free will?

Is it not our free will to not believe in him?
And, if that is so, then why are we punished for exercising these gifts he has given us?
If for doing what we believe sends us to an eternity in hell, then why not just turn us into mindless zombies that do all he wants?

I suppose this is my largest problem with the typical religion. Doesn't the bible say[and correct me if I'm wrong] "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth," then later proceed to preach mercy, love and forgiveness to all?
And we wonder why people these days are so hypocritical."

Heaven is a perfect place. Sin cannot enter into Heaven.That is why God made a way by sending his only son (Jesus Christ) to die on the cross and pay for our sins, because the Bible says withouth the shedding of blood, theres no remission of sins.

Romans 3:23 ; For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God... Romans 6;23 : For the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ Our Lord... John 3;16 : For God so loved the World that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life...

So God is FULL of Mercy and Grace. We are all sinners and we deserve Hell according to Gods plan but God has givin us a free will, because he wants us to choose him because we love him not because we have to.

The ironic thing about all of this is that God made it so easy for us to be saved yet we still choose to reject the gift of Jesus Christ.

so its your choice and noone can choose for you...

Sherry, that was a very clever post, I'm kinda miffed I didn't think of that.

Kelsi. Quoting the bible, if you don't mind me saying, it quite possibly the worst thing you could do in a religious debate, because if you want to get into the murky waters of bible quotes, then you are going to have to answer for all the quotes which are less then divine, and in many cases, downright offensive.

Do you know there are passages in the bible that support rape? I bet you didn't.

None of you who believe are real Christians, you are all part timers who take the sections of your "Holy" book that you like and can live with, and you politely forget about the rest.

So you might agree not to kill people
But you will work on the Sabbath once in a while
You probably don't steal things
But you do not love your brother as you love yourself, if you did, then the church would never have gotten away with all the atrocities it has, and in slightly more subtle ways is still perpetrating today.

None of you has true faith, and not one of you really knows the bible, because if you did, you would never quote it, knowing what a corrupt, socially and morally damaging piece of writing it is.

Yeah Nicko, I think if you really believed that, you'd say why, and back it up.

Are you saying that you think there are any people who truly follow the word of the Bible, in here?

I think not, and so my point is valid.

Uh huh, that is an abstract way of saying you don't want to answer my question, you just want to pick holes in my choice of words whilst ignoring the issue.

There is no one on this website who follows the word of God, as put forth by the bible 100%. If there was there would be some evidence of it, and there is none. Even part time Christians like Micheal can't even get the simple things right, like loving your neighbour, because whenever he gets threatened in his beliefs he starts insulting people and dragging up posts from years ago.

Why can't you just admit that everyone, regardless of their particular brand of faith [and they are like brands by the way] follows the rules they like and ignores the ones they don't like, or the ones that have gone out of fashion.

I see your point Britt, I think the difference I'm getting at is that making mistakes which are not in line with the teachings of the Bible, is not the same as actively choosing to ignore sections of it to suit yourself.

For example Micheal and many others like him profess to be Christians, but the minute anyone questions his line of logic, he flies off the handle and starts insulting them. He has about 4 times now suggested I am drug user and a souless emotionaless being, all because I asked him to explain his point of view in a more simple way.

Now that is not a loving attitude, it's not even age appropriate and so he is clearly not even interested in practising the teachings of the bible, in the way that someone like Sybellene [another user] is. She is also a person of faith, but she humbles me every time i talk to her with her simple honesty and faith...and I feel her faith, even though i don't agree with it..I can see it.

All I get from micheal is frustration and anger, and a dogmatic mind that lashes out when threatened.

So I say again, he is a part time Christian, as are most believers.

You know what I agree somewhat with Poetess...Maybe people like Micheal are not angry because you breach their line of thinking. Maybe their angry because you actually criticised and questioned the holes that their faith seemed to have, to which they already know it's there.

So their own retaliation is to insult, degrade and belittle the guy who questioned them.

Lol...Clever but it takes a master to actually work that to his advantage....

^^Do you mean you believe in God without religion or with a certain religion.

There are always weird things in every religion

Example:Jewish people born as jewish...I think it's meaningless.you should have the right to choose your faith yourself not your fate

Quran says muslim girls/women should cover their hair in order not to get attention of men
But how many guys you see look at a girl's hair first when they pass by a girl?? Would our hair make them think us in a [[cocky]] way?
I don't think so.

"Jewish people born as jewish...I think it's meaningless.you should have the right to choose your faith yourself not your fate"

Actually, Laura, Jewish people are nomads, by that I mean they roamed around the world without having a home to call their own...You can guess since the time of Moses, ancient Eygpt.

So their religion became their own sense of identity. And people who are born Jewish, solely depends if their mother is Jewish.

"Quran says muslim girls/women should cover their hair in order not to get attention of men
But how many guys you see look at a girl's hair first when they pass by a girl?? Would our hair make them think us in a [[cocky]] way?"

Actually it's true that the inital process would be to cover or not get attention from men, but it is worn in terms of modesty and also bring in their own identity, telling the world that they are "Muslims".

And Laura, different cultures have different ways of finding someone attractive. In here it's they eyes, teeth, body etc. But in other parts like China, it's small feet, in middle east its the eyes, hair, small stature etc...

Every culture has their own representation of what's beautiful.

Hmm, maybe my words were too harsh before.

Kelsi:
It's not that I think the bible is stupid or anything like that. In fact, I know for a fact that most of the stories in there have really good morals to them.

What I can't deal with though, is the idea of someone else choosing my fate for me.
And, if he wants us to choose him only because he loves us, not cause we have to...

Well, it seems rather like a "have to" situation if you have to choose between flames or clouds. Don't you think?

PS::
Kevin, aha! You are human!
The last picture made me think you were a ghost...

Funky, that.

Kevin: name one passage in the Bible that supports rape.

there are things in the Bible that say people back then did commit the sin of rape but never one that supports it.

and you cannot be a part-time Christian, you are either saved or lost. simple...

^there's one where a man is commended for giving his virgin daughters to a horde of drunk men, rather than letting them assault the visitors staying at his house.

I should add that I don't think Christianity as a faith could condone rape... but there are some things in the Bible thatt ought to be reckoned with.

Bob you dog you're starting to look like a holier than thou atheist lol

"wow, somebody doesn't know their bible very well....but I guess it's up to the interpretation one is given, however it seems plain as day to most folks....."

well bob i dont see you jumping up and tellin a story in the Bible that supports rape. hmm maybe you need to read more

For example Micheal and many others like him profess to be Christians, but the minute anyone questions his line of logic, he flies off the handle and starts insulting them. He has about 4 times now suggested I am drug user and a souless emotionaless being, all because I asked him to explain his point of view in a more simple way

Kevin I have always felt that we have a lot in common. Though I don't remember being rebellious against God in the sense of criticizing faith. I do remember questioning my faith very strongly
Though when I was your age I lived with my parents I can't imagine myself devoting any time to an online discussions. In fact I had not yet heard of the internet. I was kind of a wild rebel

Anyway my passion for writing is long story that I do not wish to bore the readers of this thread with, To explain my point of view in a simple way it was hypocritical of me to portray you as a soulless emotionless being. The fact is that I am not the best example of a Christian but I cannot imagine myself perceiving doubt as a virtue and faith as a vice.

Even though I love the poor junkie as much as I love myself. I believe it was in poor taste for me to even joke about you using a less harsh drug.

Although I do admit to enjoying a good debate I have not mastered the virtue of humility yet.

But I have no doubt with you as my trainer I could be eating lightning and crapping thunder

By the way my sister hits harder than you do. lol

Ah Micheal, though I do not agree with some of what you just said, I wish you could write like this more often, I actually understand everything you said and I feel you were being honest and open, and to the point.

I don't think I have much more to say about all this right now.

Take it easy.

[[Michael && Kevin= MADE FOR EACH OTHER.]]

xP

[[[Haha, sorry, you two. You're just totally at it, back and forth. Crap, where's that popcorn??]]]