Atheist or christian?

I am a christian and i love God deeply
but i was curious because i was reading some peoples profiles and this subject was said over and over.
God is always there for me.
why doesnt atheist beleive in God?

It's more like your choosing...If you don't believe then you don't believe..like your sexual orentation...you feel more near to women then you choose your lovers as women,if you feel more near to men,then you choose your lover as men
It's what you choose by your heart and soul
So if you can't ask why someone is gay or straight,you can't question this too

And being an atheist is not a thing that is just related to being a christian..I'm a muslim and I have a lot of people atheist around me

Well i geuss you can ask either qeustion.
what do muslim believe in?

Like the same
But different from catholic
Just one God is the creator of everything and things like that-God=Allah-

[[sorry i am curious]]]lol
so the god you believe in is allah
ok i see =]

Okay then
And being curious is not a bad thing
I know it by myself :]

It can be sometimes lol

"Because it's illogical, useless and outdated."

Now Now Angelina, that may be your opinion, but there are some people that actually believes in the religion you call illogical, useless and outdated. And who knows maybe the new religions to come will make the whole concept of "athetism" outdated, illogical and useless.

Back to the topic:

Atheists BELIEVE in God's nonexistance. Merely the coundrum would be that they believe to disbelieve.

Athetist now believe in Science, which say that God is nothing more than a fairytale dream. But hey you have'nt mentioned the other religions...Which makes me think that you believe that your religion is worthy to fight against Atheisim....Lol.

Funny...It seems that religion will always cancel out each other to prove their own worthiness.

Why not just believe to disbelieve or disbelieve to believe. It makes it sooo much easier in the long run.

^^Harder for the intellectual without wisdom/common sense.

Lol...

I am Christian and very proud to tell everyone I love my God with ALL my heart.

I was raised Christian and was very involved in it, but when I got to about 16 I started asking questions and looking around. The answers I got from religion about life, particularly the less pleasant side of it, seemed overly simplistic.

I realized that when I actually looked at my faith with a little bit of detachment and logic, it just didn't stand up to any scrutiny and therefor didn't deserve my interest.

Reading the bible as a historical document helped finish off my delusions. But for many years I toured the mystical and spiritual world, looking for something else to fill the gap. I am glad to say nothing presented itself that stood up to investigation.

I think the world would be a much better place without religion, even just in terms of politics, war and personal freedoms of expression.

Good luck to anyone trying to break free.

I'm with Kevin.....except for the fact that I never really worshipped a god - not even as a young child.

I used to go to church (until I was about 10)....but I never really saw the point. It was always more of a waste of time than anything.

I only believe in one ruler of my fate, and that is me. I believe that every man and woman is their own god.

Isnt it wonderful how everything God says in the Bible is happining in the day we live in.

if you want to know what is going to happen all you have to do is read the Bible.

And for all you people that believe in that S
science stuff... Scientist did not even know that the World was round [[they thought it was flat]] but the Bible said it was round.

"Read your bible" Very good advice .. translations of this divinely inspired prophetic poetry has made its way into many nations

God has never been called a creature in any tranlation I have read

God is the creator

Well at least you got it partly right. God is.

The human brain is not capable of remembering a time before it existed therefore nonexistence is objectively a contradiction

Evil and darkness is not a reality. What we perceive as darkness is merely the result of covering, or turning from the Light

The point of logic where the servant creates the master built many a tower of Babel
Only the truth freed the slaves, and the towers remain as a reminder as to the pride of man. When man touches the stars he will know that faith is above reason. The end will be the beginning, and the dignity of our greatest grandfather will be divinely redeemed through humility. God's will be done.

Can I ask that people who want to be taken seriously in this debate not speak in phrase, or quotes they got from spiritual texts, because those things are not written to be easily understood.

Micheal, though you will no doubt complain I am abusing my Mod powers and persecuting you, you have to admit your last two posts don't sound like a person discussing normally. You sound like you are giving speech on theorectical mysticism.

Keep it simple please, the truth is always simple so that everyone can understand it, though they may not agree. I am a reasonably smart person, and I don't understand what you are getting at.

It's funny but I find religion funny in respects to what I've seen people do...They quote it, they praise it, defend it...All admirable. But the way they do it makes them seem...What's that word...Oh yes, feel as though they are denying the truth...

It's just too funny...

I believe theological mysticism would be more accurate. It will take more time for me to remain in this discussion to defend Christianity without referencing the traditional mysticism that is commonly associated with what it has become in the year of our lord 2007 Do you believe the text known as the Holy Bible has an active copyright on it ?

"But ask yourself this, why would god create an absense of evil then?"

Because, the absence of evil is a wonderful place to dwell. If infinity cannot exist how can the vessel that contains our essence exist? Time and space is relative because the spinning motion of our galaxy is constant. We may enjoy the illusion of being in the state of rest. The results of evil are the reality that is created into the system. We depend on a solar system for our existence, but I am not comfortable with the illusion that the world revolves around me

"How is nonexistance contradictory if it's true? Saying something doesn't exist is valid. Unicorns don't exist, right?"

Because non-existence like your argument has no substance. If valid science accepted non existence they would have mocked the Wright brothers for attempting to build a flying machine that never existed. 'Unicorns don't exist, right?' The dinosaur fossils did not exist in the mind of man when they were discovered right? Some will argue that dragons are a myth while feuling thier world with Lord knows what. It is sad that religion and science are for sale. Has anyone seen my mind. or have I lost it?

I'm Christian, I think. I'm somewhat undecided. I believe in God, but my belief varies. I really don't know anymore. I'm not deeply religious, either. I haven't been to church in ages.

Meh. I dunno.

I don't usually believe in God.
But I do believe there is someone out there higher.
It doesn't necessarily have to be him, though.

Sometimes I think it's just the priests that made up God.
For example: The bible.
God didn't make that.
If he did, he's pretty darned cruel.
I'm talkin about the old testament.
The new one's pretty mellow.
God says that women are inferior to men.
I don't think that's right.
I think those are just the men back in the days
Wanting the power.

I believe that many proclaimed atheist aim, at the truth, and miss, but it is unfortunate that the same can be said about proclaimed Christians. I am not sure if atheist want to claim historical figures such as Hitler, but I am unaware of large procliamed christian groups with the exception of minority KKK members that openly praise him while burning crosses.
As the Jews were persecuted for their ancestors, that persecuted the wrong Jew, christians are often persecuted for making an ortodox choice It is easier for me to perceive the power of forgiveness than the power of persecution. Many have stressed the value of individuality while joining a clan sic ,or not

Though it does not help my position on persecution verses divine forgiveness I won't deny proclaimed Christian authorities persecuted races genders and creeds in the dark ages. Ignoring that we should not throw stones unless we are without sin.
To me banning or discouraging the sharing of forgiveness in Christianity makes about as much sense as banning or discouraging the sharing of poems and quotes in a community designed for that purpose

" the bible also claims some creature up in the clouds breathed into the earth and created a human being; that there was a talking snake which convinced "Eve" to bite into the apple; that it's possible to create the whole world in 7 days; that some person turned water into wine.. damn I want that. And:

Psalm 93:1, Psalm 96:10, and Chronicles 16:30 state that "the world is firmly established, it cannot be moved." Psalm 104:5 says, "[the LORD] set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved." Ecclesiastes 1:5 states that "the sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises."

Read your bible."

I am really glad to know you are reading the Bible because I would like for you to read Luke 16 whitch tells a story of a man in torment of the flame in Hell.

Ephesians 2:8 & 9 : For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves:it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.

its all about FAITH whether you believe it or not God established His WORD and we have to forsake all and trust him and whoever chooses not to do that will suffer for an eternity in the flames of Hell hut like the man in Luke 16.

p.s. the wine was not furmented which means there was no alcohol in it...

...do a history lesson..

Abby, I think I am in love with you, in a purely wordy manner you understand.

I do not think there should be a mystery to faith, as is so often put forward, especially when a non believer questions a believer.

"Oh well thats the mystery of faith"

I think the distinction between the faith an Athiest has, and I mean only an educated one who as actually researched their beliefs, is that they can give very good reasoning to back up their beliefs, and religious people never can.

I've been on these boards for a long time and seen religious threads come on go. Not one person in any of those debates has ever offered an idea or viewpoint or piece of research, even theorectical, to support a belief in God or religion, not once.

I find this remarkable. Generally believers only recourse is one of the following things;

1. Quote the bible and then either link it to some truth about the world, thus validating the whole theory.

2. Describe a miracle they heard about, a healing of a friend of a friend for example

3. Of just talk about personal feelings as a validation.

The problem with all of these examples is that you can't use a belief to back up a belief, that is a circular argument that has no place in a serious debate.

"I believe because I have faith" should never be uttered by anyone who wants to be taken seriously.

I believe in the application of psychology through things like Humanistic counselling techniques, I have faith in it you might say. I know it works. But If I wanted to convince anyone of it's worth, I wouldn't just say oh it works because I feel it does, or it works because there is a book about it written a long time ago. It works because it has been well researched, tried and tested and anyone who wants to speak about it with any kind of authority should really have been trained in it, as I have.

If only religious people could back up the ridiculous things they say, Athiests might not think them so misguided and we could have a serious debate.

In my opinion I always find it amusing that certain people that enter a debate want to win so badly they change the rules of logic constantly. I cannot see the logic of seeking the truth while placing barriers. The late pope was quoted as saying He believed there is enough evidence to prove evolution as a fact. The same people that object to being called soulless will deny the existence of any thing that cannot be touched tasted seen heard, or smelled, and I think it stinks that many religiously whine about the hypocrisy of religion

Would not you find it pathetic that someone could be so shallow as to declare that feelings where against the rules. When winning or losing becomes the goal paradise is lost more often than not

Another thing that has always been a mystery to me about atheist, many will label faith hope and love as delusional then hypocritically offer you luck in finding reality while wishing you well. My ancestors used to dig holes to avoid having to take a squat. Other holes were dug to avoid thirst. If anyone wishes in one well and takes a dump in the other which one will be filled?

Micheal. You need to stop distorting peoples words.

You won't of course, because I think you know you can't really ever hold a debate with me fairly without using distraction techniques and overly mystical language, but hey, no one is being fooled except you.

Let me put my point another way for you. If I told you that there is, at this precise moment, a huge fluffy teddy bear floating in space, which watches over the world and can see and know everything, and influences the whole world, would you believe me?

The answer is no, you wouldn't, not only because such an idea would clash with your idea of God, but also because there is no proof, and I wouldn't offer you any.

If I then went on to say the teddy bear is true because I feel it to be true, and if you don't understand that, then that is the mystery of faith, you would rightly think I was crazy, or at the very least not very good at debating.

This is why I say using feelings as a validation of God or religion is not suitably to these kinds of debates.

Now, feel free to misquote me, ignore the parts of my post you don't like and ramble on in a barely understandable esoteric manner, I won't die of shock.

And If I do, and God is real, I'm sure he'll give me a pat on the back for really looking for the truth in more than one place.

Another thing that has always been a mystery to me about atheist, many will label faith hope and love as delusional then hypocritically offer you luck in finding reality while wishing you well. My ancestors used to dig holes to avoid having to take a squat. Other holes were dug to avoid thirst. If anyone wishes in one well and takes a dump in the other which one will be filled?

Is that your response to me Micheal?

Really?

And you wonder why I think you are a bad representative of your faith.

Where is Sybellene, she can at least be honest. What a pity.

Are you full of wishes, or something else?

Some look up for hope while others dig a well to hell

You clearly have no intention, or most likely ability, to answer my points in a decent way, just as I predicted.

By all means keep on answering well thought out logic and reasoning with utterly ridiculous proverbs, I can understand why you do it, I just think it speaks volumes about your fear and doubt.

For if your faith cannot stand up to a reckoning from me, then really, it is worth your attention?

People that that are confined to common sense in a common era usually have a lot in common

Great nations have been built by a trust in God.

I understand why you cannot answer my common sense questions Kevin.

There is nothing common about reason and logic Micheal, nor Science and the humanities, except they all share a similar rule of thumb that is based on truth being backed up with at least some evidence.

You keep dancing around everything I say with barely related responses, which I don't think is very mature or intelligent.

I am trying much harder than you are to debate here, you are playing games and I am really trying with you, and all you can do is ignore what I say and post a little copied phrase.

Does anyone else have anything worthy to say?

Micheal, ask a decent question that is related to this topic and I'll answer it, though can you ever do the same with me?

The evidence suggests you cannot.

Well I can see everyone insulting Micheal...Without me....Lol.

I agree with Abby when she states that science and religion when mutally exclusive can be truly harmful, and from this thread, it's evident...Truly so.

There is nothing here to discuss, other than the fact that everyone loves whopping Micheal like a pinata...Lol.

But let's face facts, religion and secularisation is evident in this world...Politics is what rules here, and what causes dismay. The thing I find also intresting is that all people speak about when talking about religion, tend to refrence Christianity as their main point. What about the other religions, do they not count?

I don't believe in God. I don't really see how there could be something or someone up in the clouds or wherever that created everything in the world today. I think that a long time ago the bible was created to give people somehting to believe in that helped them through their lives. I do agree that having a faith or something to believe in can make things easier for some people. But I don't see how someone can just believe in things because someone tells them to. So that's what I think. But that's just my opinion, and it doesn't necessarily mean it's true.

I'm not really sure what i believe in, there are so many different religons, and in the simple context of those religons i see nothing wrong, but i was raised (am raised) christian, and when i was little i saw nothing wrong with it either, but then you go to church and you start asking yourself questions.....
and now i don't believe in it any more...especailly because in the bible it's all like 'forgive and forget'
well, in the world we live in... do the catholic priests actually do that? do they help the poor and the needy? these are the kind of questions that got me wondering. .......

"HAHHAHA.. so I guess I'll see you in hell. If you believe out of fear, then I feel sorry for you, I truly do. I choose to use my mind and logic, thanks.

P.S. I did a history course :)"

you wont see me in Hell..

i chose to be saved because i believe God died on the cross for our sins to save us from burning.

p.s. and when i wasnt saved i was scared of Hell. The Bible says that you are suppose to be fearful, because God is Powerful.

I am here, Kevin!

Noir told me there was a nice fight going on. I'm seeing some good blows, but more an exchange of b*tch slaps and hair pulling. : D

I tried to read through most of the responses, but I admit I skipped over a few of the annoying parts. For the most part, I'd throw my lot in with abby. (Yet again.) I see no reason why such stringent lines ought to be drawn between faith and reason. Reason relies, at its very beginning, on fundamental assumptions. Leaps of faith, you might say, which must be taken in order to have solid starting ground at all. We must have some sort of faith that we even have the ability to reason. Faith, in it's own turn, is worth much more if it's based on truth, I think is safe to say. Truth can be understood through reason.

Thoughtful discussion should only strengthen the truth in both science and religion. Both, if strong enough, can stand to be examined. However, so much of the so-called "discussion" on these topics is nothing more than mindless squabbling. I don't know if this is possible, at this point, but couldn't we try to turn this thread around a bit? Personal attack are pointless. Every human in here has some reason for believing what they do. If we can talk about these reasons in ways that don't force people into defensive thoughtlessness and petty avarice, then I think there's a better chance, -for everybody- that we can come to some sort of understanding, or at least additional enlightenment.

^^Whoo hoo!
I'm with you on that one!

I have a question for religious folk in here...
If you are pagan, say, you believe in greek gods and pay homage to Zeus or something, what does that mean?
Are you sent to hell by god's standards?
Or, are you accepted for it, and embraced for being so loving to what you believed?
Does that make you athiest in terms of Christianity?
Or are you just betraying your creator?

I'm all for expanding our minds to what could be, but, please, let's not leave our logic completely behind.

^Good questions. I'm not a pagan, or a Christian authority, but I am a "religious folk," so I'll give my 2 cents!

I don't think "God's standards" would say that someone whould be sent to hell. My ideas are still somewhat unsettled about this, but... I think how you live and how you believe is more important than the details of whatever religion you align yourself to. I think along this line, because I don't believe that a person would be in the wrong for believing in a religion, if that's the only religion they've ever known. I think very few people escape the world they were born into, and so couldn't be condemned for, say, believing in Buddhism in a Buddhist country. Furthermore, I don't think being a Buddhist, Muslim, Christian, atheist or follower of Dionysus is any necessary indicator of how "good" a person you are. I think if you live the best life you know how... then that's really all you can do, isn't it? (Granted, what a good life means will probably change based on your beliefs, but I think the changes are more in the details than in the general themes.) I am a Christian, and I think there is a philosophy of love that ought to be followed, not a philosophy of condemnation.