Simple thoughts on death

Its late so this will probably be more or less just a collection of disoriented thoughts and questions.

death is the point in time when life ceases to exist. but when exactly does it occur? medically it is when the heart has stopped beating for a certain mount of time. but is a person truly dead at that time? or are they just beyond saving at that point? at what point is it impossible to resuscitate someone? these questions lead us to another question. do we have souls? if so the time of death would be when our soul departs.

why do people fear death? is it the fear of the unknown? or perhaps it is simply instinctive as i believe. now religious people often believe that a better existence awaits us after death (heaven, paradise etc.). if this is the case though why would they still fear to die? or do they fear the judgment? is there a feeling to death? can you feel the life leave your body?

there really are no answers to any of these. however it is thought provoking.

wow that sounded much more intelligent in my head. the effects of very little sleep.

"what if we are already dead, and our bodies the tomb"

From my experience alot of those who fear death are those that cease to believe in the afterlife or heaven, paradice etc. i believe that the fear probably stems from many things including fear of the unknown. Also there is so much stigma and fear attached to death so that in some ways it becomes contagious or is drilled into us from such a young age that we know nothing else. We also see from such a young age that when someone dies it is so upsetting and heart breaking. We often also see people before they die being very ill or unwell. So maybe it isn't so much the fear of death but the fear of dying that scares the hell out of people. (which i believe is a quote of some sort) Often though people fear death more when it has had an influence on them or touched there lives in some way or another. People also fear death not so much the fact that they don't know where there going or what will happen once they die but more the fear and thought of leaving behind loved ones and not being able to forfill or have enough time to forfill dreams, wishes and journeys. And when you ask the question at what point does life cease to exist. Well no one will ever really know the answer to that. Most people say it is when we are no longer able to be resuscitated. I believe though that sometimes people can still be alive in body but not in soul. All emotion is drained from them and they cease to feel. I do believe however that everyone has a soul at some stage of there existance.

Bob here is a quote that describes your last statement fairly well.
"A man should not leave this earth with unfinished business. He should live each day as if it was a pre-flight check. He should ask each morning, am I prepared to lift-off?"

I believe someone said this before me, but i do not fear death itself. there is a part of me that fears the pain of the experience though. ex) if i was to burn to death or drown. the thought of those last few moments of torture messes with my mind.

i find it interesting though how certain people, like my mother, who are religious fear death so much. you think they would welcome it or at least accept it. but my mother is paranoid, she will night drive certain roads after dark because she thinks she will lose control, and die. i refuse to let fear of death stop me from doing something like that. i am not going to let the fear control me, if i die, then i die. it happens to everyone.

bob i think it takes a certain kind of person to want to choose those circumstances. i know i do.

now another thought, many people say nothing is certain except for death. yet if there is no life can there be death? to answer that what exactly is life? life is generally thought to be less obscure and mysterious but i am not so sure. do you think that with the help of science we could prolong our lives nearly indefinitely? as i alluded to earlier, i believe that many times when we say someone is "dead" we could have actually brought them back if we understood what was happening better.

here is another quote that describes many people's irrational attitude towards death.
"he had decided to live forever or die in the attempt"
if you know where the quote is from let me know.

Everything that lives must die, yet some things seem to be reborn

THis is kinda a creepy forum but if i were to add my opinion...people are not scared to die, they are scared of how they die and death is simple to seize exsistance

_fearing death is merely either thinking of the grief you'll leave behind, or feeling unfulfilled and like you've ran out of time.

if you've noticed, people seem to live as though they can do anything when they're diagnosed. that's because their entire life they've had controlled emotions, controlled time tables, a controlled life; once they fear death, things catch up and they do whatever the f they want to, because they realise their life was wasted on ignorance and fear of people's reactions.

la la la.

There's no sense fearing death. It will happen sooner or later, and when it does, there's no going back. It's not like you can control death, so live as if there is no death, and when you're dead...well, my atheist brain tells me, that you won't know it. That's one instance where ignorance does no harm. Anyone affected by your death will also die, sooner or later. Why fear the inevitable?

I like all these quotes! Keep them coming guys.

100 points to Bob for the quote identification.

Now people in this forum have generally come to a consensus and reached the same conclusion as i have. death should not be feared. however, these thoughts can lead to others that cause issues. in reaching this conclusion people need to be looking at "the bigger picture". and when they do it also makes them realize that as our death is somewhat insignificant (not the best word) as it is part of the natural order, our individual life is also insignificant in the "bigger picture". we will all die, and everything we create will be destroyed. a rather bitter truth that most people do not like to address. i hope people were able to follow my thought process there. i am not always the best at expressing myself.

And to please the Empress:

my view on life/death- "I shall not waste my days in trying to prolong them."

amusing life/death quote - "If you live to be one hundred, you've got it made. Very few people die past that age."

"We do not die because we have to die; we die because one day, and not so long ago, our consciousness was forced to deem it necessary." - interesting implication. perhaps death is not unavoidable. perhaps subconsciously our being decides that it is time to go and self destructs. perhaps the years of mistakes, regrets and pain weigh us down more than we realize, crushing us, and our subconsciousness ends it for us. perhaps we are all suicidal? rather obscure but thats me.

from my favorite book/movie - "this is your life, and its ending one minute at a time."

"It is impossible that anything so natural, so necessary, and so universal as death, should ever have been designed by Providence as an evil to mankind."

Neema, you have an interesting point of view. according to you life only serves to create and preserve life. fairly accurate. yet if that is the only purpose, why bother with life at all?

wow i can be morbid

bob -"do plants really die or rebirth themselves every season...." -- VERY interesting observation. are the new plants offspring? or did the originals just preserve themselves?

there are a couple people i am surprised not to see in this thread.

Neema, you are correct in that fear is instinctive and very difficult to overcome. yet as i have questioned before, do people fear death or the pain that escorts it?

as to your profound energy, freedom thing, there is a quote (i seem to be using a lot of those lately) "its only after you've lost everything that you're free to do anything."

i wonder if maybe overcoming this fear is entirely a good thing though? to overcome this fear you need to accept your fate. the problem is, accepting your fate can lead to not caring and in turn result in extreme apathy. you may lose a large part of yourself.

I have a fear of pain or injury that is long lasting or irreversible, but I wouldn't say I am afraid of death.

"The slowest form of suicide is living life avoiding fears. Bigger than the fear of the idea of death is the fear of exhibiting our true selves, knowing our true capabilities, while alive. These two fears are synonymous. Within the known, the opposite of life is not death, it is dullness."

abby, I just remembered why I love you.

I was thinking about this today, actually. The way I figure it, we live in a dangerous world whether we like it or not. Can't really change that. But we -can- decide whether we'll actually live fully, or whether we'll coast. We can spend our time in fear, in "lives of quiet desperation," or we can spend it in love, in creation, in joy and grief and flying spirits. Nobody survives life, eh? So why be dead while we're still living?

These questions lead us to another question. do we have souls? The atheist evolutionist seem to put their faith in fossils, although many of them imagine that there was an essence in the remains, or vessel. That is as far as their imagination can take them. The sun rose yesterday and it is not a stretch of imagination it will rise tomorrow. I have found that many randomly evolved apes object to being referred to as soulless, second only to mindless and heartless. Indeed if a human lives without passion it is not to live in fullness. Looking back on my insane life so far I cannot ever remember fearing my own death. But rejection is a natural fear I do recall.

Michael we sort of alluded to the question"do we have souls" but never brought it out into the open (thank you for doing that). as you said most atheists don't believe in a soul. but if we were to have souls, it would make my question as to when do you actually die a lot easier to answer. death could be seen as when your soul leaves the body. it would also help explain a person in a vegetative state, but it would complicate it as well. according to the definition of death i established (assuming we have proven souls exist) once your soul leaves you have passed away. yet what if the vegetative state is someone whose soul leaves yet their body is still "living"? (perhaps their soul left prematurely as science has advanced to saving people who are increasingly closer to bodily death.) then do we consider them dead? it would make the issue revolving around terminating the "life" of a vegetative person very interesting indeed. however, there would also be the possibility that the soul is just being suppressed when i person is in that state.

Ha i liked the last bit nick

I do apologize for being simplistic but you must admit I got your attention. It seems to me that science is heavily influenced by politics, as are spiritual beliefs. For the purpose of this discussion topic, I would like to examine what a soul could be. A soul is not defined as the same as a spirit, by all philosophers. Purely from a logical simplistic view of life it seems that all life forms have a program. The creation of complex life forms only happen, metaphorically, in a given time span. If you know of a way to trace the origins of physical laws of nature simply I would be interested in anything you have to offer.

The top evolutionist seem to be uncomfortable with the term accidental because that would ignore the laws of nature.

The mortality of individual vessels is an undisputed fact. At least the dearly departed seem to achieve eternal rest from an objective view.

I used to thinki could do that. like sometimes i SWEAR i can like see myself. like im looking at what im doing.. but its weird.. because i like.. actually see myself..

hmm

Wow, let's try to use 'like' in moderation.

I like that quote, good job.