Faith

Sometimes I read poems from people who tell their love for "god" or whatever
I can't understand what drives people to "belief
in a way I like religions, but often for the values in life they set, eg "behaving in a decent manner "
believing i somehing they'll never see proven in their lives , yet so many can believe
I've read a lot , also topics and poems here, yet I cannot understand
why ?

Like you said, those people believe in something that will probably never be proven in their lives... but that is basically the definition of faith. People not needing proof, just believing.

Its called blind faith,......... I get the same sort of thing out of anti depressants

Well there is some kinda proof to it too

What proof

What proof

What gives me faith in God is my life. When I look back at certain events, I know that God has protected me from things that could harm me, and perhaps from dangers that I don't even know about, and He has brought me to where I am today. Because of this, I know that there is a God out there that loves me and protects me always.

Yeah.. And sometimes you need to hold on to something. Perhaps, believe into something so that whenever you're alone, you will not feel so at all..

^^

For God's sake Angelina...Your hard on critique of religion was once endearing but now it's getting too radical...How is it un-educated to believe that there is a creative force out there, protecting us and helping us acheive our fullest in life...

Faith isn't about education or research...It is about putting your "Given" trust on something you believe in. Be it man, God, tree etc...

I am surprised at the point where people ridicule others mainly because of what they believe in. And I for one think that should stop...Christians may be laughable to you or many like you...But people died and even suffered for that belief...So again refuting the bible (which by the way is rich in historical context) should not be ridiculed.

I've been very harsh on occasion with anyone in here who believes in things I think are rather silly. However, before this debate proceeds into offensive territory, like all religious debates do in here, i would ask anyone who wishes to speak in positive terms about their faith to think of what they are saying from the point of view of someone who doesn't believe, and is in all likelyhood very sceptical.

It doesn't help your argument to just say you feel God is real, or you just know in your heart because certain things have happened in your life, you must understand that only makes sceptical people even more prone to think you irrational.

To balance my idea out, I would also ask that anyone who wishes to argue against organised faith and belief in God to remember that you are not merely discussing a philisophical topic that has no important relevance to people, like you might in a college class. You are talking about peoples faith and emotional attachments, their upbringings, their families. In fact, think of their religion as being a member of their family, then think of your own loved ones and wonder how well you would take it if someone carelessly told you in a debate like this to abandon them because they were liars etc.

If you want to get people to think about their faith, either for or against, you must engage them in a positive way, show them an example they can see has wisdom and truth, or at least the possibility of these things, otherwise you will only polarize them further into a faith you think is bad for them.

That is my sermon over. my Church is almost ready. Who is in?

Hmm, this forum is flooded with kids that don't know if they want to believe in something or not, dig up some old threads and continue them. Instead of spamming religious threads be nice to see something besides ''crap'' for a while :)

I believe what made Saint Paul, or C. S Lewis such great authors, and defenders of the faith, in this 'common-era', is that they were such great skeptics. I remember when I used to argue issues of faith with my aunt Agnes it was difficult to intimidate her because she had a Ph.D.

I have found that the term, blind faith is more commonly used by those who have a very low spiritual perception. Indeed I had a very low spiritual perception when I placed reason, and logic above faith.

I agree with Kevin that when our faith, or intellect is challenged, heartfelt emotions are sure to follow. Kevin has explained that he perceives his soul differently than I do mine.

Even when I challenge dogma I am inclined to look beyond what my eyes perceive in the cosmos

In its most general sense, a cosmos is an orderly or harmonious system. It originates from a Greek term meaning "order, orderly arrangement, ornaments," and is the antithetical concept of chaos.

The Universe is defined as the summation of all particles and energy that exist and the space-time in which all events occur

Most of the mods on this site will revoke your poetic license while you are defending your faith, but I believe that faith is not supposed to oppose reason no more that the cosmos should oppose the universe, thus the soul should not oppose the Spirit.

I got to hand it to you Micheal...You are a great storyteller...

You mythologize your comments and posts....Where to you it may sound logical or emotionally astute. But actually sounds cryptic in many ways...

We need mythographers to decipher this quickly...Lol.

"Faith isn't about education or research...It is about putting your "Given" trust on something you believe in. Be it man, God, tree etc...

I am surprised at the point where people ridicule others mainly because of what they believe in. And I for one think that should stop...Christians may be laughable to you or many like you...But people died and even suffered for that belief...So again refuting the bible (which by the way is rich in historical "context) should not be ridiculed."

I suppose that many people perceive the roman Saul that was on his way to Damascus to persecute Christians as a myth. Indeed mythology has influenced the calendar that is in use today
I have heard the myth that some uneducated fool had a sudden brain fart and wrote the entire bible with the logical assumption that it would control the masses that were for the most part uneducated,
but it takes a greater leap of faith for me to believe that.

Any point I make is probably mute to anyone whose important decisions include whether to pierce their nose, or not

We must apologize for wasting valuable cyberspace and asking why faith.

We now live in a world where religion seems passe and where Darwinian thoughts is where is all at..

I find it funny that people would ridicule others because they seem to know what the truth is...Please!

I am a muslim, and I have respect for all philosophies and religious denomination. Why ridicule another's faith when they themselves can easily ridicule mine...It seems pathetic as you say...In the long run

"Its called blind faith,......... I get the same sort of thing out of anti depressants"
I would prefer to be more spiritually dependant, rather than chemically dependant
I am a witness to many overcoming chemical dependency through faith in higher power. Spirituality should differ from organized religion that has become disorganized by the focus on conditional love. I have found that unconditional love is healthier, as is divine forgiveness.

The bible is not proof, it's written by people , written again and again, until the ones writting it found it ok ,
where in the world can those who believe trully see that their faith is justified ?

And tell me...Where does you faith lie, does in lie in science or Darwin's theory or does it lie in the disbelief of a creator God.

"The bible is not proof, it's written by people ,"

Would you be surprised if an online encyclopedia stated that Georges Lemaitre, a Belgian Roman Catholic priest, predicted that the recession of the nebulae was due to the expansion of the universe.[3] In 1931 Lemaitre went further and suggested that the universe began as a simple "primeval atom", echoing previous speculations about the cosmic egg origin of the universe.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Charles Darwin would probably not dispute the fact that man gave names to all the animals

"written again and again, until the ones writting it found it ok ,
where in the world can those who believe trully see that their faith is justified ?"

For me it is easier to justify faith hope and love as the antithesis of doubt, despair, and hate

Gods my dear, rely on faith and belief alone, for if there none, there would be no such thing as God..

And lets not forget, science is the new God many worship...

Let's call him/her Scientiopius...Lol.

Isn't that special
I would, at this point, like to quote a bastardized version of something I once read from a member of this site, though it is not a politically correct quote. "Entering a debate in a discussion forum here is like competing in the Special Olympics, win or lose you are still regarded." I do not give a "Flying_Spaghetti_Monster" about political correctness and, I have quoted Voltaire "I disapprove of what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it."
To quote another dead poet "Heaven is in your reach, when you believe". Perhaps if poetic justice exist there is poetic mercy

See what did I say

Mythologize...

"If you want to get people to think about their faith, either for or against, you must engage them in a positive way, show them an example they can see has wisdom and truth, or at least the possibility of these things, otherwise you will only polarize them further into a faith you think is bad for them."

This seems to be a wise approach to the original topic
"I've read a lot , also topics and poems here, yet I cannot understand
why ?"

To be honest I find the sometimes shallow topics and poems on this site to be as laughable as the Flying_Spaghetti_Monster and I find nothing sublime about ignorance of spirituality

The proverbial example they can see has wisdom and truth is something that requires faith

If I give an example of spiritual healing you may accept it as truth or remain in the state of denial

The Greeks seemed to have a firm grip on human nature and indeed I believe their mythology was the forerunner to modern psychology The failed attempts of behavioral science to restore a patient of mental illness to accepted standards of mental health seem not to have mythologized the study of the psyche.

Describing Why I Believe In Christianity Isn't An Easy Task To Do Because I Can Type All Day What Christianity Consist Of (All The Rules And Historical Facts EXTC) But At The End Of The Day Your Never Trully Going To Understand Christianity Unless Your a Christian...You'll Just Get An Outline Of The Religion....But You Wont Be Able To Fully Grasp The Idea Of 'Belief' Unless Your a Believer....

And I'm Terribly Sorry I Couldn't Put Up Much Of a Fight, But Since I've Posted Replys On Many Topics Of This Kind...I Find No Real Reason To

xoxo-Nikki-xoxo

"If you find MY religion laughable, what about YOUR religion? Mine makes just as much sense as yours, no?"

I can imagine it could be difficult to make sense of anything if you are a few noodles short of a serving of spaghetti lol

Now Now....Micheal...Do you think that was nice, insulting a girl half your age...Hmm?

I believe that faith is a concept many people think of in a religious context...

But faith is complete confidence in something, someone, whomever...You may need faith if you want to believe in religion, but faith can seep into many areas of your life as well...

Let's just say we all are right...

By the way...It was Greek philosophy that paved the way to psychology rather than mythology...Micheal...

So you believe that the Greek philosophy was never influenced by their mythological gods & godesses, and the term psychology has absolutely nothing to do with the goddess Psyche?

Hmm...Let's see...

Actually No...My friend, you have got it wrong...If your looking for the etymology of the word "psychology"

Then here's the source:

http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=009Ru0

Mythology has nothing and I mean nothing to do with Psychology....

"Psuche started out referring to breath, then to life more generally. The psuche was thought to go to Hades after the death of the body in Homeric times, but it was not the person's "essence" in the way that Christians believe the "soul" to"
I still think it is more than coincidence that each Greek god or goddess had a Roman name that made its way to several sciences

This article is about narcissism as a word in common use. For narcissism in psychology

Do you have an Oedipus complex?

Morpheus was the god of dreams in Greek mythology. According to some ancient sources - such as the Roman poet Ovid - he was the son of Hypnos, the god of Sleep.

Thanks to all the people that commented on this topic
all comments where helpfull in an attempt to try and understand peoples faith
I guess it's doubtfull that I ever will trully believe or follow a certain religion , altough you never know

thank you .

To have faith is to believe without seeing. you can believe the mail will be delivered today or you may not. but personally the greatest men i've ever known have had a strong belief in one thing or another.
you can believe in cold hard facts for the rest of your life but have you ever wondered? have you ever turned from numbers and statistics and thought about what if so and so didn't show up? sometimes having faith in someone is the best thing they need. to know someone has faith and believes in you, ah what a great feeling

Faith doesn't always mean religion is what i'm driving at

"Because sometimes what people believe is illogical and causes the deaths of many, many innocent people."

It is at times ironic we must use the adjective innocent to describe a worthy life. In all honesty, if I believe what I have read, a zealous youth may have been burned at the stake for professing the value of innocent life. If an innocent man healed the sick and the lame he would be crucified. It would be foolish to serve a fallen king, but it is wise to serve a risen King

"I can imagine it could be difficult to make sense of anything if you're an invisible guy up there in the stars somewhere (although we have technology to actually go up there now and as we've seen there's nothing) who appears to be an all-knowing, all-loving god yet created disease, pain, suffering, misery and loss"

We have only observed disease, pain, suffering, misery and loss as the effect of evil. If we observe Light as the cause of darkness it may be because we have no spiritual substance to refract or reflect the light. Technology has allowed humans to build a capsule so that we may be transported in relatively short distances in space. Many respected observers of natural phenomenon have witnessed order in the perceived universe that is the antithesis of chaos. Pain, suffering, misery, and loss, reflects a lack of perfection and this biological conflict is disease.

Evil is the lack of good. I perceive pain, suffering, misery and loss,
as the effect of evil

It is more difficult to explain spiritually how evil is transformed to good the way natural selection explains the improvement of a species

In other words it may be more difficult to share this planet with immortal large dinosaurs

The evil of death allows for the greater good

"We have got to stand for something, or we will fall for anything."

In my position right now, faith has helped me overcome a lot, and now things are looking great.

Faith is what separates people. you can screech and howl all you want but what drives me is different from what drives you. no offense but if you have a right to believe we were created by some bang or by one single celled organism then why can't i believe in God?
i'm sorry i don't fit in your rational everything must make sense world but here i stand and i will take all who dare approach me, believing in God and fighting for my beliefs

To the first post.
Because sometimes when everything else goes completely wrong god and faith are all they have.

To the last post.

hahahahahahahahahahahahah!

nothings gone wrong so far and your inability to see into the minds of the faithful is amusing. i'm doing pretty good for myself.
i have many friends, we go to nursing homes and sing to the elderly, we pick up kids on a church bus and take them to sunday school, not all religions have a crucifix on the wall and we chant words we don't even know. pleasew don't stereotype

^^

My boy...You just now stereotyped yourself as the zealous young man Angelina was just talking about...

But I don't think "again" faith has anything to do with religion...

Micheal: They use the storys of say "Narcussiss and "Oedipus" to illustrate their point...I mean if I were to make a theory on the act of "pining" for one's love, I would use "Echo's" story to illustrate that...So again, the Greek gods and goddesses (mythology) did not influence psychology, merely helped illustrate their point.

And I think that the whole question of "what is faith" brings anger, condesending and frankly insulting views to the table...

"Ok, Michael, then why would god create an absence of good? "

"In the distinction of good and evil one opposite is known through the other, as, for instance darkness is known through light. Evil is known through goodness, for evil is the privation of good. Evil is not a thing, an essence, a nature in itself; it exist by way of failure or defect in nature"
Source; A Tour of The Summa

. "The best known Magi are the "Wise Men from the East" in the Bible, whose graves Marco Polo claimed to have seen in what is today the district of Saveh, in Tehran, Iran. In English, the term may refer to a shaman, sorcerer, or wizard; it is the origin of the words magic and magician."
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The philosophy of the Magi, erroneous though it was, led them to the journey by which they were to find Christ. Magian astrology postulated a heavenly counterpart to complement man's earthly self and make up the complete human personality."

What historical event inspired the common era?

"Faith is the substance of things to hope for and the evidence of things unseen."
You have a point, but until you have proven God for your self you will never understand. Though we are chrildren of various religions and beliefs we all agree in one thing. There is a supreme being, how else would we be here?
Blessed is he who have not seen, yet believed.