Who here believes in god?

I am just curious to know what everyones stance is on god.

but what makes you such a strong believer? science says alot and do you really believe that god created everything on earth? and do you really believe all the stories in the bible?

Is every one who responds going to be called on to substantiate their beliefs? There are some things, like the existence of a deity, that can neither be proved or disproved. That is why they call it faith.

Besides, having a faith in God does not mean a corresponding acceptance of any particular set of religious beliefs or a rejection of science.

I definatly agree with Blue Water. Why should we have to sit here (again see previous post on same topic) and explain or try to explain our beliefs? the question was "Do you believe in God?" not "Do you believe in God and if so explain your belief so I can explain why you're wrong." And even if youre not trying to disprove our beliefs, it should be good enough that we are responding and saying wether or not we do. If youre attempting to gain insight on one particular religion (or all of them) most priests or rabii's (not sure if thats spelled right) and other denominations religious leaders who are willing to talk to you and let you know. If you dont want to talk to someone, libraries usually have a copy of each religion's basic beliefs (look under religion in the card catalog). Alright? I however do believe in God and thats all that matters.

Hmmmmm *thinking, thinking*

Well what makes me such a strong beleiver in God???My faith and it grows stronger everyday, just because you can't see something doesn't mean it's not there, I was raised in a Roman Catholic house hold which was very religious although my family let me choose what i beleive, they never forced any thing on me to beleiven God...to be honest when i was alot younger i never did beleiven God but it's amazing how 1 life chaning experience bring you closer to God, well this is from my experienc....
take care
Scooby

yeah...but he's a catholic y'know and lives in Ardoyne Belfast!

hmm of course I believe in God but not the Bible...is that wrong? ??? but i love God SO much do you?

sorry people, but i don't believe. im not the type of person that will belittle your faith, i think its awesome that you believe something, i just can't for some odd reason.

I believe in people, hows that for a belief?

God? Which one then? And which interpretation of which God? And which version of which intepretation are we talking about?

God, Buddha, Hare Krishna, Me.

Go study your maths kids, read some quantum physics....there will you find the creator.

I raise my hand and put it around my fellow humans.

Study your maths??? Have you ever realized that there are just as many questionable theories in science as there are about God. Creation cannot be explained...you have FAITH that quantum physics is true...you have FAITH that there is no true God. There are some things that can be explained and some that can't. All I KNOW is that there IS one true, incredible God out there that loves me no matter what I do or have done.

And have you ever realized that any human...no matter who they are will ALWAYS let you down in some way, shape, or form...so you can you put your trust in other than the one true God?

*heather*loves*u*: How on earth can you believe in God, but not the Bible?...it tells you who He is and what he wants from us. (Just so you know, I'm not trying to be mean or snippy in this post or the last one, it's just how I feel)

that makes no sense, you said that you have to have faith and that some things can and cant be explained, which is correct, but then said that you KNOW there is one true god. that just makes no sense..

the answer doesnt rest in any book..

how about instead of worrying about who made us, or how or why we are here, let's just enjoy the short time we have here. all this religious b/s really pisses me off sometimes.

alright, im done ranting

Nookie

I'm sorry to confuse you...what I meant by that is that I believe without question in the reality of God.---But, like all Chirstians, I cannot physically prove that he exists, I just know in my heart that He does. I hope this makes it a little clearer to you Nookie, and anyone else that was confused.

I wholeheartedly believe that God exists.

Faith = Belief/hope in things not seen, or heard.

No, God cannot be disproved, nor can He be proven. That's what faith is.

Lisa Marie, you question, "do you really believe that god created everything on earth?" leads me to this: God is infinite. We can't understand that, that's why people have so much trouble. No one's mind can comprehend something infinite (no end or beginning), because the only thing we know is beginning or end. So, on that note, yes... I do believe that God created everything on Earth.

We hear the wind, and see it's effects, but we see not the wind... Isn't it the same with God?

~Ciao Lipton

PS: Hi It_Itty!

I'm sorry, I just can't believe in anything that I can't stand behind and say "this is without a doubt right" or at least believe it myself. I have just always felt that god was an excuse out or something, I have tons of theories, and I've done tons of research. Point is, the first real line of the bible is god created the heavens and the earth, my question, what created god? what created the possiblity for a god to exist? the space in which matter could possibly form..something had too, gods cant just create themselves from literally nothing.

Nookie.

If only there was an answer to where God came from...it is something I have pondered for I don't know how long. The only way I will ever know is when I see Him in Heaven. That question is one of the main things Christians must have faith in...because there is no definate answer.

Hi Lipton!

You know what i love. People talking about God, and i guess i'm meaning the Christian God in here, as if he has always been around for all time.

What you guys [and i'm talking to those who believe in the Christian God] need to understand is that he was created by men, for men, to control other men. Religion has always been about control. None of you can deny this surely? It's all very well to look back at the church of old, say 100 years ago and call it outdated in it's beliefs and social practises...but if it was outdated then and we as modern people can see it clearly, then you better believe it's gonna be thought of in the same way by our children in say 50 years time!

I bet that any thought of the church disaproving of gay marriage will be laughed at in 50 years time...in fact i bet the Catholic church will be marrying gay people within that time period. Isn't it weird that men of God can change the word of God to suite the social situation? Doesn't that make you lose faith in God? Given that everything you know about him comes from a book that is meant to be his pure word...BUT MEN KEEP CHANGING IT! Ha

"I think what God meant to say was..."

Do you get what i'm say? The church, and it's bible is outdated. It was written by men in a time when people where so poorly educated and cultured that that needed to be controlled by a higher power, which was never a God and always a man. Things are different now. Most people have moved on from needing others to tell them how to live. How can some of you still cling to this barbaric and archaic system?

I also don't understand how someone can say they believe in God but not religion. Where do you think he/she/it came from? It's like saying you believe in rain but not clouds. IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE! I understand of course, believing God is very comforting, like someone is steering the boat so we don't have to assume quite as much responsibility for our lives.

Ah....it's not like i'm gonna change anyones mind eh?

Good luck to you all, i gotta go there's a higher voice calling from within...ta ta.

The reason man can "change" God's earth is simply this:

We as man don't want God around anymore

Think about it... In the Bible, the Isrealites (sp?) would shake their fists at God and say, "We don't want you! Give us a king we can see!" and God said, "Fine." He gave them a visible king. However, when the king decided to tighten his control on the Isrealites, they ran back to God saying, "Help us!" so God said, "Fine."

Now, I'm not portraying God as a wishy-washy do-whatever-He's-told kinda being. He did that for the sole purpose to tell the Isrealites that they needed to trust in Him.

"What sense does that make now?" You are prolly asking. Well, we as mankind have done the same thing. We don't like God or His principles, so we said, "Go away!" and He said, "Fine." It's just that now, man is so deep into their sins and disbeliefs, that they don't see God as a way of help anymore, but more of an evil tyrant.

Now, addressing the "God couldn't have created Himself" Deal:

You're right... He didn't. God has always existed and never NEEDED to be created. The only reason why that doesn't make sense is because we (mankind) can't understand something with no beginning or end. Another thing: If God is God, then it would be downright simple for Him to create something from nothing. He's God, He has that capability.

I don't mean to sound antagonistic if I do. I just enjoy discussions like this. Anyway,

~Ciao Lipton

Great job Lipton, couldn't have put it better myself.

it itty...umm yes i do believe in God to the fullest extent...and as for the Bible...no i dont follow along with it...in it i only see contradictions and i hope i don't come off as n e thing repulse but i think the Bible is shit...i mean, God didn't create it, God only knows what we want...and maybe i am wrong but we will someday see that huh? and as for you being rude, no i dont think you were...just curious its okay.

I believe in God because whenever I need his help and I pray, he always comes through for me. And he's basically given me everything I've ever wanted...and the things I don't get, I realise later that if I HAD gotten them, my life would be miserable.

Lipton,

your points don't make any rational sense, at least to me, and I am half Clingon you know, allow me to explain.

It's a classic well-documented ploy of cults in the more modern era to create theories and dogma that are, to the ordinary mortal [that’s you and me buddy'o] unknowable, to much for us etc. God's holy trinity is unknowable to the likes of you and I because we are mere mortals incapable of fathoming such impossible mysteries. Well, isn’t that just a grand coincidence, cause it would be terrible for God if we were capable of understanding him wouldn't it! [I use the term "him" in reference to the Christians Gods male incarnation. and to save time...so calm down you feminists!] I mean come on! Is God stupid? If I were God I wouldn't make myself so mysterious that no one still alive could understand me, and then make it a sin not understand given how hard it is [feel free to come back at me with that classic " that’s what faith is" copout. it works every time as faith is another unknowable variant to anyone who doesn't have it...ah what a perfect system you guys have in place to deny logic.]

Next Lipton you talk about mans interpretation of God and how that has changed over the course of time...you even go so far as to put forth Gods reactions to our estimation and opinions of him as the reason for these changes. One thing you fail to include in your theory is this.

No one alive today knows God, or has ever met the theorized earthly incarnation that is Jesus. So the only understanding we have of God is his word, which is the bible. This is a fact. Everything we know about God comes from the bible. Fact.

Now, you say that it's the sin of people not wanting God around that changed the bible. But last time I checked, it was the church that controlled the bible, not the people. And if sin is the motivation for the church to alter the word of God so many times since it was originally written, to the extent that whole sections are missing and totally different from the original. Then every single Christian alive today must ask of themselves some serious questions, starting with this one.

How can you, as a Christians, be sure the words you believe to be the word of God anymore? Given all the well-documented alterations and amendments and interpretations the bible has gone through for 2000 years, hell even in the last 50? It's like Chinese whispers with the gospels! For all you know the ten commandments were completely different 2000 years ago...most likely they suited the economic and social climate in favour of those in power, I.E the religious and political leaders. Yet here's a wake up call....NOTHING HAS CHANGED! You only have to look at the recent American election. Bush won it because he backed a religion. If it suited him to be a Muslim. If it would get him more votes...you can be damn sure he'd convert, alter the bible to include Muslim like doctrine and use the vast power of the superstructure to phase out one religion and replace it with another more economically viable one. See the Roman absorbtion of the Pagans if you want a historical reference for this tactic.

In short, the bible is like at least a 15th revised edition, and no one has the original manuscript. The mere mortal men of the church are God. Fact. And the religion you hold so dear is allowed to exist only because it supports those in power. Sad but true, but certainly no mystery of faith.

abra-cada-bra!

PAQ Makes me very mad, as I had my post fully typed out, and it logged out when I posted it....

First: None of it's supposed to make sense. It's not rational. God is both irrational, and supernatural. You can't use logic to define the illogical.

Second: I guess I don't understand your second paragraph... You use "ifs" and such. That's not the way it is, so, I'm sorry, but to me, it doesn't make a valid point.

Third: No one today actually knows God or has seen Him for the sole purpose that next time anyone does see Him, the world will then, come to an end. I never said man actually changed the Bible. "Change" was put in quotes because I was using her words, so she could understand. I didn't literally mean "change", hence the quotes. Sorry if that made things difficult.

Fourth: We do have original copies of the Bible. They are the Dead Sea Scrolls. Go here for more info:
http://www.ibiblio.org/expo/deadsea.scrolls.exhibit/intro.html

Finally, (this post was much longer, but, now, I've run out of time, because this is my second run through) what you say about the the Ten Commandments and how they might have been different. Well, for one, "might" does not make a valid point with me. If you want to make a point, you have to know for a fact. Anyway, you contradict yourself here. You say that over thousands of years, the Ten may have been altered, or changed completely. Then you say "NOTHING HAS CHANGED"... not much sense in that...

I can guarantee that if Bush changed the Bible, it would cause all sorts of upheaval. There's already upheaval enough about religion everywhere, and doing that would only make problems worse. However, nowadays, people really couldn't care less what you do anymore (unless you start walking all over their beliefs). People are allowed to do all kinda of things now, that was seen as completely blasphemous and deserving of death back in time (IE Salem With Trials... Think about it, people do all sorts of "magical/mystical" things now. "Phsycics" for one). However, look back to when our forefathers came over here. They were strict followers of the Bible. Anything contrary to the Bible was dismissed instantly. Having that template, (man's sensitivity for the Bible increases as we go back into time), we can safely say that man's sensitivity for the Bible has thinned over time.

What does that mean? Well, that means any kind of alteration of the Bible in the past, would have had results that I would have heard of. (Yes, people like Martin Luther proposed new IDEAS OF INTERPRETATIONS of the Bible, but the Bible wasn't re-written to suit that need).

You stand on logic to try to prove the illogical. I'm sorry, logic won't work here. How can I believe in something so illogical? It's easy. I do. A lot of people do. How? I don't know for sure. Trying to answer that question is like trying to answer, "Is God real?"

You will get the same essence of an answer for any Christian you ask. It's just the way we go about things, and if you don't like it because it's not logical, than so be it. Sorry if that sounds harsh or antagonistic in any way. I am by no means trying to estrange you from me, or any others you meet with the same beliefs.

Long post... Typed twice... Need sleep now...

~Ciao Lipton

Lipton, if you are interested about the accuracy of the bible being the direct unaltered word of God, you can follow this link to an article.

http://www.rotten.com/library/religion/bible/historical-construction/ot-errata/

Secondly, when i said NOTHING HAS CHANGED i was making reference to the fact that religion is still being used as a political tool to keep the masses in awe of the powers of the day. The bible has changed, and will change again i garantee it...the church will have no choice if it wants to survive.

And ok, Bush wouldn't be so stupid as to announce that he was going to alter the bible. Not in a public way...but if the man can change laws and regulations that tens of thousands of people don't want, and actively protest against...and i ain't just talking about the war on Iraq..then you can be damn sure he has the power to quietly alter laws which will effect peoples religious views...and thus in time the role the church has, and ergo my dear friend....the interpretation of the bible..and once that changes...give it 50-100 years and the church can then release a new version with all the groovy updates.

Have you read 1984 by George Orwell? There's loads of stuff in there about information being only what each generation knows from the last...given that every 50 years or so a whole crop of people die who remember first hand what the world was like. It's the same with the bible...you only believe it hasn't been changed because of your observation of history..which lets face it, up until very recently was almost completely controlled by the church...now it's the governments of the world...but even then the church is hand in hand with the rulers.

Listen, i actually admire people of faith...especially in religions that are fabricated and morally corrupt [ see gay rights, womens rights, sexual freedom, liberation of children.etc etc ]

Like i said before we aren't going to change each others minds....i wager that i'm only enforcing your beliefs...and i know you are strengthening mine against Religion...it's the undecided souls i'm fighting for..who may be reading this.

My respects. Good luck...you're going to need it.

I hope you all know that the Bible you read today is far from the original. Note how it says KING JAMES VERSION on it, or something of the like. Religion is just a tool like you said, used to calm the masses and provide false hope, or answer questions that hurt your head to think about, like where did I come from? why am I here? And such, it also makes you feel warm and fuzzy that you're not REALLY going to die, and this life is only the foundation for the beautiful building that is your immortality, well sorry to tell you, but that's what religions purpose is.

As for that article, I read it already, I wasn't too impressed either.

Did people forget that the church doesn't exactly have a clean past? Why do you think there are so many branches of Christianity? I mean, don't they believe pretty much the same thing? Well, the answer is simple, they couldn't agree, so they split up. It just goes to show you that people will follow anyone who can first of all provide the answers to their questions, and then can change according to their will..

Here's my advice, stop arguing about religion, stop dying over it, stop crying over it, don't lose sleep over it, just STOP. Believe in yourself, and your right to enjoy your short, blink of an eye time here. Stop thinking that you're going to live after you die, you won't. Stop thinking that someone is watching over you, they aren't. If they were, atheists would be homeless, and all Christians would be very fortunate people, bet you never considered that..And hows about for a second you consider that your religion isn't the first and only, just because it's the only one you partially understand, doesn't mean the world agrees with you.

Look here, people that believe with all of their hearts, go on and believe, but just shut up about it, we don't care about what you have to say, you believe it, I don't, great, lets have coffee sometime.

But, people that aren't sure, DON'T BELIEVE ANYTHING!! If you aren't 110% sure that you're going to Heaven, then forget it, enjoy your time here, and stop pretending that you enjoy church..unless your boning a choir girl, in which case, by all means carry on.......joke people..haha funny?

I could go on for hours, but I'll end here for now..

Nookie.

Ok, I read all that again, and I need another go at this. I read many times things about how rational can't describe irrational, well it's not supposed to, it's irrational.....but, however, irrational can easily be belittled by rational thought (for instance, at one time the theory of gravity was just that, a theory).

By the way, the dead sea scrolls, we have NO proof that those are real scripture. How do we honestly know those were written by who we think wrote them, and even if they were, how do we know if that person was documenting the correct thing?

And, the book of revelations was indirectly mentioned, oh how I love that. That particular book has no concrete meaning to everyone, only every Christians personal spin on what it means. It is the prediction section..or..perhaps..the past..that never....happened..? Hmm..that is indeed a problem, how do we know WHEN any of that is supposed to happen. I know that when I went to church all I heard was "soon" oh soon this soon that..they've been saying "soon" for 2000 years now..how soon is soon?

I have listened to some of the best Christian speakers in the U.S., and never have any of them gone further than making me think for a day or two. You see, to every statement in the Bible, there is an arguement from me.

And also, one or two problems I always have..Why is it in the story of Jobe, that poor man, why does god speak with, and make a wager with the devil? Should they really be on speaking terms? And why would god allow satan to do such things? To prove a point? What point is that...?

And, to the first Christian that can give me an answer beyond my brain not being able to comprehend this question, I give one cookie:

In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth, marvelous...but what created god? and what created the potentiality for god to exist? and what created that? and what created the space that we call the universe? i mean there had to be some room for space, you can't go from nothing to everything without something..so answer me that, anyone? anyone?

or how about this one, how do you know if god is a lesser god? just a mean little fourth grade god with a magnifying glass, killing off his fourth grade science project, us?

Ask yourself this, How much do I really know? And how can I believe something with so many un-answered questions?

Nookie.

God existence cannot b proved wid human logic but wid human faith ,God is i blive supernatural power which exist very much wid us n within us.
im not talking bout any part God or religion but a general belief 4 Gods existence.he has always been there n will always gonna b there.l

You make some very interesting points Nookie.

One thing puzzles me though. That you say we shouldn't be questioning God and our relationtionship with him [ Check out Alexander Popes "essays on man"...you'll like him ] you can only say this with real conviction i assume because you have looked extensively at your own interpretaiton of God etc, amd so why shouldn't we?

By all means help us direct our personal search to more valuable sources..but don't ever tell me or anyone else not to search our truth..that is ignorant, even if you believe the end prize to be faulty and not worth the effort.

I ain't defending the Christian faith, far from it, i think it's idiotic....but it is faith none the less, and that should be cherished in a world where so many are without faith of any kind.

I am in no means bashing faith, granted I might have sounded a little over the edge (could have been the staying up all night), but I do believe that all the faith one should have should be in one's self. Faith should be the ability to think critically about every decision that impacts your life, and not to get too caught up in religion. Instead of putting faith in something that might not exist, invest faith into yourself, or some other worthy cause, a good way to spend your time perhaps.

I do agree that this world lacks faith, that is one upside to having a world with one un-questioned religion..

Nookie.

Ok all im going to say is that Kevin or Jason or whomever started in on "Bashing" our beliefs and our God needs to understand that this was a simple post meant to fid out who does and doesnt believe in God not WHY we believe. And for whomever started bashing Jason or Kevin's religion the same idea is sent out to you too. Do you honestly find it necessary to degrade and put down each other's ideas and beliefs? Look I dont care what proof either of you have to contribute to the demise of the other's beliefs, its not necessary. If they want to believe something then let them. I just have to ask Linus or whoever says Ciao all the time, do you try and tell the Jews that they are wrong too? Cause they dont believe that Jesus was the messiah. Let people believe what they want to believe. In the end well find out who was right and wrong, and then and ONLY then can we really know whose religion was the right one.

I'm all for having a good hard look at your life and how you live it.

Sometimes though it's a mistake to look to hard at something...to analyze it down to it's component parts.

Like my friend was talking about the habit of Psychologists to look at something simple, like two friends talking, and mince it up into 50 theories and plans until it's no longer what it was anymore...it's not the magic of a conversation...it's a bunch of cold hard facts.

Be wary of looking too hard at things that should just be experienced. Like love or laughter.

I'll be watching you Mr man...huh huh hu..

Check out Bill Hicks...you'll love his religious banter.

Hi I am Michael D Nalley

If you have read any of my poems you already know I believe in God
I have read many of your poems, and though I can’t prove it, I believe you exist
The reason I believe you exist is that a poem is in a way a creation of the mind.
I believe a creation needs a creator. Of course I have a finite mind and I have no wish to pretend that I understand everything about eternity. One of the first things I was persuaded to memorize is, that God always was and always will be. Even if we were to rely on our finite natural reason most would not be satisfied with solving the mystery by simply concluding the Creator had to have a Creator. We would still need an infinite number of Creators. My earthly father professed to be a catholic as did his father and so on. I’m sorry if this information is not as general as my poetry, but I would like to quote my great great grandfather George W Willett. My faith is not in churches, but in Jesus Christ, and Him crucified. I write this that there be no argument or dispute as to what I belonged. Let everyone be fully persuaded in their own mind, I worship God not men or churches.
Now as far as the historical accuracy of the bible I am not the type of person who is overly concerned about that. I am not as dogmatic as I believe some would like me to be.

I admit, I have not read every word of the bible. I am among those more interested in the subjective beauty and poetry of the bible. As I said I have read a lot of the poems on this site and I love each and every one of you no matter what your creed. I have conversed with many of you through emails. I love the emails from this site I want to thank the person who started this important discussion and the one who brought it to my attention I hope I did not disappoint anyone. My book The Balance of the Heart, Soul and Mind Chemical Balance Through Spirituality, is in part my attempt to share my personal relationship to God. It is my belief that God is not apposed to science even though many church authorities have been. I don’t believe science should be opposed to God either. Science is a wonderful tool If someone offered me a safe pill that would balance my chemicals, and I found it to have no harmful side effects. I would recommend it anyone who suffers from clinical depression. The book title is the basis for a therapy, which is a combination that recognizes the value of understanding human nature, while at the same time accepts God’s healing power. The only way I knew how to approach this subject was my own personal experiences. If my part in this discussion has not bored you and you want to know more about my stance with God, visit my site at www.poetrymd.com. Many of you may already know the importance of your own understanding of God. I have many cyber friends who do not profess to be Christian who have rated many of my poems very high. May God bless you all.

~Edited out!~

Thank you so much for that comment I wrote that after I discovered that my niece was seemingly more excited about my book being published than most of my family members I put the chapter headings of my book into the poem because of her enthusiasm over my book I am sorry if anyone finds this diistracting. but it is so gradifying to see how we are used to touch the lives of eachother thank you again

Yo micheal, nice words brother...most beautiful.

One thing i picked up was the words of your Grandfather saying that he believes in God and not churches and bibles [ did i get that mostly right? ] thing is, everything we know about God comes from the bible...fact. We may claim to have personal experience of God, but no one can deny our understanding of God comes from a book written entirely by men, who at the time of it's many variations, totally controlled society through the words they wrote into the bible, and of course the way they taught it to the illiterate masses. Only recently has the church lost much of it's power over the minds of common people.

So to me, it's madness for anyone to say they believe in the Christian God but not the bible he comes from...it's like knowing the comic book batman is fake...but still believing batman himself is real and kicking ass in Gotham City..

Is anymore getting me or i am just ranting nonsense?

I should have ended the quote with an unquote the quote from my grandfather ended with churches and men and without being offensive, because it is a very common mistake, in your editing of my qoute you changed the whole meaning of what I was trying to say this is a paste of what I actually wrote I worship God, not men or churches.
Now as far as the historical accuracy of the bible I am not the type of person who is overly concerned about that I am not as dogmatic as I believe some would like me to be. I
Admit, I have not read every word of the bible. I am among those more interested in the subjective beauty and poetry of the bible. from that you assumed that my granfather did not believe in the bible . I agree with everything you said you are not ranting nonesense the bible in truth was written by men it has been edited several times. and the unity of man's understanding leaves a lot to be desired there is a vast difference in believing in something and worshiping it. yet if you look deeper into faith hope and charity they are dependant of eachother. How can one love what he does not believe in? If we did not believe in anything how could we hope? who can find hope in the world without Love? I also do not worship men or churches now this is where I am sure to draw some fire. The first Pope was odained by Christ when he said thou art Peter and upon this rock I wilL build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against thee, Did the authority He past on die with Peter?

No problem, and sorry about the harsh paraphrasing.

So, what do you think about what i said concerning God and Batman?

I know that you probably not talking to me, but I think it's quite adequate. If we look at Batman, everything we know ultimately comes from his little comic book, so, not believing one or the other is just ridiculous.

Okay, for the second or third time (I forgot who this is directed to, but you know), God, being infinite in everything He is, did not need to be created. He has always existed, and will always exist. There was no need for anything to "create" Him, as He was not created.

Right now, tho, I'm done talking about this. I've answered the post, and that's all I really intended to do. If you would like to discuss more about this subject, feel free to E-Mail me.

Lastly, tho, I would like to say: It's a belief. A faith. We aren't changing each other's minds at all by saying our bits and pieces, and, really, if anyone is agnostic, or just downright confused anyway, this is doing nothing but confusing them even more, I can assure you. I don't mean to sound like I;m just throwing this away because I'm tired of discussing it. I'm not going to have the time to sit and do this all the time like I have been previously. Thank you, Kevin, and Micheal, and Ali, and anyone else that contributed to this discussion. It was quite enlightning, and I enjoy this kind of stuff.

I guess no one will know until we die, eh?

~Ciao Lipton

I believe I understand the parodox as I said I agree that there is a undeniable connection with God and the bible. I was not offended and was kind of amused as batman kicking ass struck me as funny. I would like to also add I did not think it was a harsh paraphase. I think it was an honest mistake and I was not offended
although historical accuracy is always debatable, it was not my intention to say that the bible is not fact.
But no one can deny it has been interputed many ways